I put a layer of Butane gas from a blow lamp!! in my bottles of chemicals, could this be detremental to them. Example AGFA Rodinal which now seems to 'keep' for ages judged on it's lack of darkening

-- David A. Henderson (four.bananas@lineone.net), October 09, 2001

Answers

let me see if I understand this correctly? you are risking blowing up your house and/or a fire to save a few bucks on developer? Yeah I would say it is the right choice..as to the developer, no it will not hurt it..butane is not an oxidant, it might make your plastic bottles brittle after time...Basically I would say you are just waiting to see which one lasts longer your house or the developer..Good luck, I think you will need it!

-- Jorge Gasteazoro (jorgegm@worldnet.att.net), October 09, 2001.

Butane would work since you are purging out the oxygen in the headspace above the liquid in the bottle but using a flamable gas in confined bottles is NOT the best choice. Nitrogen is a far better choice but the cost of the nitrogen does not make it practical for most people. It's usually cheaper just to through out the old and bring in the new.

-- wdnagel (wdnagel@home.com), October 10, 2001.

Nitrogen will not work, as it lighter than air, and will simply diffuse out unless kept under a positive pressure from a nitrogen source. In the labs, we used to use argon to blanket a liquid, but this is impractical in a home darkroom. Tetenal makes a product called Protectan that is supposed to work well. See, http://www.jobo-usa.com/products/chembw.htm#Protectan Spray

-- Arnie Milowsky (arniemly@earthlink.net), October 10, 2001.

I use small mouth glass bottles and a "winesaver" kit (available at kitchen supply stores) which consists of special corks and a hand operated vacuum pump.

-- Tim Brown (brownt@flash.net), October 10, 2001.

Considerably cheaper and safer to use one of the following methods. Buy a bunch of marbles and add them to the solution till the solution reaches the brim. Or hold your breath as long as you can and exhale the carbon di oxide into the container to displace the oxygen. Or put up the money for the Prtectan. Cheers, DJ

-- N Dhananjay (ndhanu@umich.edu), October 10, 2001.

Protectan is Butane and Propane. Don't smoke in your darkroom and don't light a match in order to find the light switch...

-- George Papantoniou (papanton@hol.gr), October 10, 2001.

Yes, Protectan is the same gas as used in the blow lamps. If you can get a very slow flow of butane/propane gas from the gas bottle, you can use the gas over powder chemicals too. ;-)

VERY SLOW FLOW! No one wants to get the chemicals snowing around in the room and in the eyes and nose. :-(

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), October 10, 2001.

I have to agree with N Dhananjay. I have used the marble trick for years. Make sure they are glass marbles. You can get them in a craft/ hobby store.

-- Scott Walton (f64sw@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

I've used marbles for years. They work well, except when I what to preserve concentrated partially filled chemicals when their amount is too small. In cases like this I use Protectan.

-- Boris Krivoruk (boris.krivoruk@kp.org), October 11, 2001.

What happens if you lose your marbles ?

-- George Papantoniou (papanton@hol.gr), October 11, 2001.

I have seen recommendations for using glass marbles in german photo books that are 70 years old. So this is nothing new. :-)

-- Patric (jenspatric@mail.bip.net), October 12, 2001.

What happens when you lose your marbles? You use a flammable gas for a purpose it was not intended for without proper safeguards.

As a professional Fire Portection Engineer, I can only support the other comments about the cost of a new face and house and possibly a funeral against the cost of a few 100 cc of developer. Not only is the gas flammable, but intoxicting, and can potentially cause liver damage, just like sniffing glue.

Marbles are good, as are foamed polystyrene peanuts used in packaging, as they fill up the airspace above the liquid and exclude Oxygen.

I use Ilford HC poured into 30 ml film containers, then freeze them. When I need a litre of developer, I pop one of the film containers of gelled developer out of the freezer into 970 ml of water and in 2 minutes have a nice fresh developer solution of the corrrect strength. The dilution can be controlled to achieve whatever concentration you need.

Cheers

-- richard ilomaki (richardjx@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

I bought recently a winesaver kit of the type mentioned above by Tim Brown. I haven't tried it yet for the developer but for the wine it works very well!

-- miguel (miguel.jimenez@oecd.org), October 19, 2001.

There is a product for wine fanatics that is an inert gas, its an aerosol can. I found it at a wine shop in NY. Perhaps that will not explode - in case you were worried. Personally I say thank you all, I'll be buying some butane real soon!

cool idea. Ted

-- ted (ted@elfintrader.com), October 29, 2001.

Use nitrogen or some other inert gas, not something flammable! Besides, the darkening you are trying to prevent has absolutely no effect on Rodinal---the stuff goes from a pale wheat color to a dark brown once you crack it open, and it has had no effect on development times, etc., in the twenty-some years I've been using it.

-- Chuck Albertson (chucko@siteconnect.com), October 30, 2001.