My M6TTL HP5 Plus negatives appear underexposed (insufficient shadow detail) at 400 ASA after development in Rodinal according to Digital Truth instructions (1+50 for 11 min). The meter is OK and I try to use it correctly. I'd be interested to know if any Leica M users routinely expose B&W film at non-standard settings such as advocated at this site: http://www.halfhill.com/speed1.html which deals with the "true" speed of a film with a particular camera, etc. Thanks,

-- Peter Mackay (pm@novonordisk.com), October 09, 2001

Answers

I don't know about about Leicas, but every camera I'ver ever owned had to have it's ISO reset to match it's exposure characteristics based on testing with slide film. My Nikon FE is set to ISO 80!

-- Sanford Lee (sanford@usa.com), October 09, 2001.

I routinely personalize the speeds for ALL films that I use. I test film by shooting a few different but normally lit scenes at 4 different settings; at recommended ISO, -1/3 stop, -2/3 stop, and -1 stop. I then compare the negatives (or transparencies) for the best density, and rate the film accordingly. I never shot much HP5 in 35mm, but when I use it in 4x5 I rate it at 250.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), October 09, 2001.

Peter, I also habitually adjust the ASA rating or exposure override on my cameras to fine tune the exposures. For years I rated K'Chrome 64 at 80-100 in N cameras. Am now experimenting with new Leica R to determine what ASA setting I prefer with this camera (and projector). My preference for usage is to set a consistent ASA rating for the film and reserve exposure override changes for adjustments to specific, individual shots. Good shooting. LB

-- Luther Berry (lberrytx@aol.com), October 09, 2001.

Peter--

Could be one of two problems: you need to give more development to get the results you want, or you need to "calibrate" the meter on your new Leica. How to tell? If your negs give decent shadow detail but weak, gray highlights, try extending development to, say, 14 minutes, and see how they look. If your negs have low shadow detail, then you need to give more exposure, and hence need to find the right ISO setting to get the results you want -- you need to "calibrate" the meter of your new M6.

If you have a "reference" meter, i.e., one that is reliable and known to produce the results you want, then compare its readings to those of your new Leica. Do this by setting the reference camera meter to the film speed you normally use for HP5+, then point the meter at some even-toned, evenly-illuminated subject like a gray card or your garage door, and set the exposure. Now set your Leica to EXACTLY the same f-stop and shutter speed, point it at the same subject, and adjust the ISO setting until the camera indicates a correct exposure. The set ISO speed will likely differ from the one that is set on your reference meter, and that is okay, as there are normal tolerances in such things. But now you know what ISO to set on the Leica in order to get the right exposure. And if that ISO is, say, one stop slower (e.g., ISO 200 on the Leica gives same exposure as does ISO 400 in the reference camera), then just be sure to always add that one stop on the Leica for every film you use (e.g., a film that is rated at ISO 100 in the reference camera gets ISO 50 in the Leica). On the back of the Leica, near the ISO dial, stick on a piece of masking tape and write "+1 Stop" on it to remind you. I have to put these little pieces of tape on all of my cameras just to remember the variations in their meter readings.

Of course, if you have no reference meter, and have never shot HP5+ before, then just give about one more stop anyway and see how the negs look. Hope this helps.

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), October 09, 2001.

I should have said in my previous answer I set my camera at ISO 80 when using Velvia (ISO 50) film.

-- Sanford Lee (sanford@usa.com), October 09, 2001.

You have a couple of potential errors.

How do you know the meter is ok? With what standard reference have you checked it? My two M6 bodies require +2/3 stop EI-setting compensation in order for them to indicate "Sunny f16" from a standard grey reference in sunshine. Since I've long determined that "Sunny f16" (1/EI @ f16) is a valid standard for me, I conclude that if the two M6 meters were set at the film's rated EI it would be 2/3 stop underexposed.

Another factor is the actual speed of HP5+ in Rodinal 1:50. Other results may vary, but I consistently get EI 320, speedpoint being the exposure that gives .10DU above film base & fog density with a Sunny f16 exposure.

So....based on my experience and your observations, I'd say that your film is at least a full stop underexposed. That doesn't mean something's wrong; it's just caused by variances and tolerances in calibration etc.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), October 09, 2001.

The "speed" of the film to set on the dial is whatever works. For years I've been using Tri-X at 250 because I like the negs that way. Change development to get the proper contrast, and change exposure to get the proper density. That's all there is to it. ISO numbers aren't written in stone--they're recommendations, that's all. There is no such thing as "true" speed anymore than there is the "ideal" woman because everyone's needs and desires are different. For silver prints I like lots of density and shadows, but my scanner likes thinner negs, and I can make the same type of prints with them as I would have made with thicker negs and silver.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), October 09, 2001.

You have to establish your own E.I. as well as development time.

Work your way through "The ultimate monochrome print", one of the Technical Articles on Lloyd Ehrlich's website: http://www.heylloyd.com

-- Hans Berkhout (berkhout@cadvision.com), October 09, 2001.

Gremlin, should read Lloyd Erlik @ http://www.heylloyd.com/ and the article is by Jon Fishback.

-- Hans Berkhout (berkhout@cadvision.com), October 09, 2001.

Thanks very much everyone. I will study the Ultimate Monochrome article which looks interesting. I believe I need to increase exposure. My old pictures are here: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=139688

-- Peter Mackay (pm@novonordisk.com), October 10, 2001.

I only shoot HP-5, mostly in 35mm & 120. Last month in Italy I shot 50 rolls of HP5 120 and 10 rolls of HP5 35mm. I have been using HP5 since 1976. I buy the 35mm from B&H in 50 roll packs.

I develope it in HC110B 68 degrees F fro 5.5 minutes. I have found that the true ei is 200. I use a Sekonic L508 meter.

Read Fred's book Zone VI Workshop. It tells you how to determine the proper EI and developing times for any film.

Making a proper proof will let you know if you are under or over exposing your film.

Tony

-- Tony Oresteen (aoresteen@mindspring.com), October 10, 2001.

I´m a HC-110 user too Peter, and my film is Tri-x, I have use HP5 few times and find it needs more developing time to get the 400 asa of my Tri-x, reading Tony Oresteen times and temp. developing comb. seems for me too short for me, of course what makes a diference is agitation.

So if you have found your shadow areas too dark and film emultion too thin developed, you can decrease ASA or increase dev. time.

I have come to like long dev. time and very very little agitation, with this I get low contrast in high ligths and contrast in shadows, without increse much the grain size; but my parameters about grain can be unusualy permisible.

My best sugestion, is try all the ways you can and find what suits you better.

Good luck.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), October 10, 2001.