Sorry for the cross posting --- this is posted in the Canon EOS forum as well.

I am wondering if anyone knows if there is an EOS body that is as quiet as a Leica M camera. I am presently using an EOS D30 digital camera in a small, jazz club setting. The noise level of the D30 is, IMO, borderline but acceptable. I would like to investigate using b&w film as well, and, already owning a set of fast Canon lenses, was wondering which if any Canon film SLR would be up to the task. The D30 is not bad, as far as noise goes. I don't think it was part of Canon's design criteria to keep it quiet. I think it is just the result of the lack of film being dragged through the camera on each cycle. The only motor action is the shutter being re-cocked. So noise, overall, is not bad.

I know, a Leica M6 with 75mm Summilux would work great. But I'd like to try my Canon lenses first, before jumping to a whole 'nother thing.

---Kent Phelan

-- Kent Phelan (kent@phelan.org), October 08, 2001

Answers

I have never tried one but an EOS 1 RS should be pretty quite as it has no mirror.

Cheers,

John

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), October 08, 2001.

Most of the EOS cameras are very quiet indeed as they don't use a conventional sprocket mechanism to advance the film (they call whisper drive). They use a very quiet motor to pull the film along (via the leader) and an infrared sensor to count the sprocket holes to know when 1 frame has been advanced (though this makes it impossible to use infrared film with these cameras). Of course you still have to deal with mirror slap. As John states you can use the RS version (using a pellicle mirror that remains stationary). Both are poor choices (IMHO) for low lite work. With the regular EOS-1v you get mirror slap, with the RS version 50% of the light is is not passed through to the viewfinder, hence a slightly dimmer image - not convenient for low light work. All the reasons while in you specified setting (jazz club) the Leica M reigns supreme.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), October 08, 2001.

I don't own a D30, but I do own both Olympus and Sony digital SLRs and both are much quieter than a Leica M6. I can't imagine anything being quieter than a digital camera. Even my Rolleiflex is noisier.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), October 08, 2001.

Kent:

I used to have a Canon EOS 1N RS camera body that I used with a number of Canon lenses. My Leica M6 TTL is much quieter, and better for handheld photography in low light situations. Of course, a digital camera is quieter still. But then you don't get the quality that Leica lenses are famous for! A Leica M6 with the 75mm/f1.4 lens would be a great combination! :-)

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), October 08, 2001.

My EOS Elan 7 is very, very quiet for an SLR. I used to have an Olympus E-10 digital which was almost noiseless--no moving mirror at all.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), October 08, 2001.

I have been shooting with a Canon EOS IX and a Leica M for some time. Both are noisier than my Minox 35GT-E, but I want to use the f/1.4 and f/2 lenses i have in the Canon and Leica systems. I don't find either to be intrusive or overly loud.

Godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), October 08, 2001.

Here's another idea - if you want to go for the quietest ever camera, then you cannot go past a Konica Hexar. It is pretty quiet on standard setting, but with the silent mode on, it is as close to silent as you can get! I kid you not - it is so quiet that even the photographer has trouble hearing it.

The Hexar, being an old camera is pretty hard to get, but luckily here in Australia you can have the current model Hexar Silver modified to have the silent-mode re-enabled. This is what I had done a month ago and since then camera noise has been a thing of the past.

The big catch though is that you are stuck with the Konica's fixed Hexanon 35mm f2 lens. I much prefer to use a 50mm.

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), October 08, 2001.

Kent

I have several EOS models, which I don't use any more, but they are great for what they are (fully automatic cameras). None of the EOS models (even the ones with the sprocketless drive) are anything like a Leica M for noise or smoothness. You have to realize auto everything SLRs have not only a reflex mirror, but also (often) an autofocus mirror, not to mention the autodiaphragm and the film advance motor.

In addition, the shutter itself on SLRs is noisier than the rubberized cloth focal plane shutter of the Leica M. But I was surprised to find that the Contax G system cameras are also quite noisy, despite the absence of the reflex mirror. I think Canon cameras are among the more quiet of the SLR crowd, but they are still "loud" compared to Leica M.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), October 08, 2001.

Hi Kent, The new Elan 7 is by far the quietest EOS camera that Canon has ever made. I use it with the 100/2.0 lens in low light with good results and it has autofocus or manual override. Of course it is still an slr with a mirror bouncing up and down. My M3 & M6 are both quieter and probably more accurate to focus in low light. If you use the 75 'lux or the 90 AA you will be guaranteed the best results you can get in that type of situation. And if you really want a new M6 and some Leica glass by all means you should have it. Don

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), October 08, 2001.

Super quiet? In a Jazz club? Why?

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), October 09, 2001.

I don't mean this as a Canon vs. Nikon thing, but the comparable Nikon N80 is noticeably quieter than the Elan 7. All these cameras, the EOS 7, N80, M6 cannot possibly be heard by anyone away from your table during a jazz performance, unless you shoot during the quiet pauses. Even so, they will not disturb the performers.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), October 09, 2001.

Actually i've never felt my Leicas are particularly quiet, I remember once trying a plasticky cheap SLR that was incredibly quiet and put the Leicas to shame, at least on that front.

I've said it before, but I really think the whole unobtrusiveness thing is totally overrated.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), October 09, 2001.

Super quiet? In a Jazz club? Why?

Good catch! Why not a Pentax 6x7!

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), October 09, 2001.

WOW! Thanks to all for posting. I really appreciate it. First off, let me explain that what I am presently using IS an slr. The Canon D30 is, I have been told, similar to their EOS-3 model. It does all things a modern AF-SLR does, except wind film (I use an IBM Microdrive for "film"). It's pretty quiet, as SLRs go. I guess because it is not a film camera. It's WAY quieter than my wife's Nikon 8008s, for instance. For jazz, I use it mostly with an 85mm f1.8, and occasionally a 50/1.4 or 28/1.8 --- all Canon USM (read: quiet AF) lenses. My exposures are consistently f1.8 at 1/50th or 1/60th at ISO 400. I thought I would like to try b&w film (TX, HP5, or one of the 3200 films at around 1000), ostensibly to see how far I can take it in terms of enlargement. The digital file from the D30 will only go so far, realistically c10"x15". Because I have the lenses, a Canon body makes sense as a first step. I know an M6 with a new 75 or 90-Apo would be "mahhvelous", but that's a big jump for a "what-if" situation.

As to "why quiet", this is acoustic jazz in a small intimate setting. Many times the best photographs are from the quiet passages of an instrumental or vocal solo. I am usually 5 to 8 feet from the performer.

Thanks again everyone.

-- Kent Phelan (kent@phelan.org), October 09, 2001.

My Elan 7E is very quiet for an SLR. If you haven't checked it out yet I am sure that you would be surprised too. Combined with USM lenses you get a very quiet system.

-- Bill Lee (Bill_Lee@telus.net), October 09, 2001.

My wife has an Elan 7 too, and this is the quietest SLR I know of - much quieter than the R6.2 for example. You often can barely tell that the film is rewinding when the end of the film is reached.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001.

When shooting in a setting where the lighting stays the same (a symphony orchestra) the quietest option is putting your camera in a sound blimp. These are relatively inexpensive considering they allow you to be absolutely quiet. They are used on movie sets. I have been using a pair of them with Nikon FM2n/MD12 combination for about 10 years. They make my Leica M6 sound noisy to me. Sound blimps can be purchased directly from the manufacturer--Jacobsen Photographic Instruments (818) 752-7910.

-- Jim Lennon (jim@jmlennon.com), October 16, 2001.