any real difference between mini-horses and ponies?

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I keep getting conflicting information. My girls are registered miniature horses, but they are pony-size. My friend has a couple of minis who are literally knee-high. I know the mini breeders will insist that minis are specifically a tiny horse, but my farrier & other folks have told me that no, they're basically all the same thing; that ponies are just small horses, and so minis are just ponies. As if the donkey/mule/hinny thing wasn't confusing enough! So, really, is there a difference?

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), September 28, 2001

Answers

The price is a lot higher on a mini-horse and they have bigger names.

-- Mel Kelly (melkelly@webtv.net), September 28, 2001.

I know very little about horses but I do know that most ponies are much much hardier than horses, and at a guess a mini-horse would be *less* hardy. Just a semi-educated guess and boy if I'm wrong we'll find out fast:o) (I'm always happy to be wrong if I can learn something)

-- Elizabeth in e tx (kimprice@peoplescom.net), September 28, 2001.

Shannon I might be wrong here, as I have never owned ponies nor mini's. I have been around both long enough to make this observation. I've noticed that ponies are just smaller horses BUT are in proportion to their size. A Mini though small in size tend to have full size heads or other parts too. It seems as if mini's are nothing more than Equine(horse)Dwarfism. If there is such a mality. Good luck, Ralph

-- Ralph (lord_byrons_song@yahoo.com), September 28, 2001.

Hi, A mini horse is just that, a horse which, through selective breeding, has been "down sized" to be small retaining all the horse characteristics of the original breed, ie. Quarter horse minis look just like the regular size QH but are bred to be considerably smaller. Ponies on the other hand are distinct from the minis in that they are usually larger, shetlands, dartmoors, exmoors, etc. They retain the distinct breed characteristics of each parent also, but their size has evolved over many years, partly because of climate, mostly extreme cold and lack of available forage naturally downsized them. Breeders have selectively bred ponies to maintain their pony characteristics, but I believe most ponies became ponies, not because people selectively bred them for that size, but due to habitat.

I have seen minis which were considered too large at 32" high. A breeder we know who has registered miniature horses has paints and apps. Each one looks as though they were shrunk from their larger counterparts and each one has very proportional features. Their heads, hooves, necks, etc are in proportion to their 26 to 32" height. They retain the slender legs, without feathering, and tiny hooves complete with strips and appy markings. He sells as pets those minis which are oversized, over 32" or out of proportion and does not give papers with the pets. His prices are reasonable and he has about forty mares and two stallions. The one thing he said was that minis have more breeding/birthing problems than horses or ponies due to their very small size. I think they are wonderful yard ornaments, however, he hooks his to mini carts for parades, etc. Minis can bring large prices, but a well trained pony can bring just as much. Our friend said that the smaller a mini is, while retaining all the characteristics of the larger horse, is sought out by mini breeders. He was refering to those minis which are less than 27" high fully grown. Hope this helps, Cindy

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), September 28, 2001.


The pony and miniature horse are two separate breeds. The mini horse is petite, the pony built like a draft horse.

Miniature horses can be used for showing, harness, performance (trail, jumping, hunting), and breeding. They are capable of pulling a small cart with two adults. The pony is used the same, and also for trail riding.

The miniature horse is no more than 8.2 hands high (34 inches) at the wither (shoulder). Ponies are 11 to 14 hands high (44-56 inches). Don't know how you got a pony registered as a miniature horse! :^)

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), September 28, 2001.



Well, I am going to say the opposite. Miniature horses relied heavily upon the use of Shetland Ponies to establish their breed. if you know about colour genetics in horses, Shetlands, and 'Miniature Horses' you will find a large portion of 'Mini' horses are silver dapple. The silver dapple colouring is quite common in Shetlands -- and rare in normal sized horse breeds. I even called a breeder on this when I was shopping stock and he admitted that yes, Shetlands were heavily used to get the small size. After years of claiming that they had bred down horses into their 'Miniatures', the Falabella family finally did have to admit that they had used Shetlands as founding stock.

My first Shetland was 9.3 hh and considered a 'Normal' Shetland, not small enough to be considered a 'Miniature' Shetland. The taller ones that you frequently see in show circles these days have Hackney Pony backgrounds if you trace them back. The Shetland standard calls for animals to be under 42" (10.2 hh) -- American Shetlands may be up to 46" (11.2hh). Shetlands may tend to grow somewhat larger when taken out of their native Island habitat and given a more nutritious domestic diet (as have humans), however, if you keep breeding Shetland to Shetland, you will not end up with a horse-sized animal, no matter what the diet.

Health-wise, the Pony and the Miniature should be considered with a similar diet. Both are prone to have intolerances for heavy grain feeding, and in general terms, should be on a grass-hay diet to prevent laminitis and possible founder. Their feet also have similar problems in shaping that I have noticed, prone to cupping and contracted heels that requires watching and proper trimming to keep circulation optimal in the hoof.

I would agree that the Minis are most like a high priced Shetland except that they are not as hardy. I worked on a rescue group with a herd of 100+ Mini's a couple winters ago and many of them had terrible teeth; both undershot and overshot jaws were quite common, and probably due to inbreeding. A percentage of them evidenced other extreme dwarfism problems as well, and my vet tells me that cleft palate is a common problem with the Minis. These defects tends to point out that they are not (quite) the same as Shetlands because they have been inbred solely to achieve smaller size past their origins much to individual's detriment.

There are lots of horses with doctored papers out there to suit whatever the owner wants to show an animal as. That is why so many registries have been instituting blood typing.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), September 29, 2001.


As always, you folks are wonderfully helpful. Many thanks!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), September 29, 2001.

Dear Shannon,

When it comes to mini's my advise is - DON'T!! I've played mid-wife to a mini mare and sat through a mini seminar at the Equine Affair. The conclusion from both experiences was the same; the work involved FAR exceeds potential return.

The mini's violate all the qualities I look for in livestock (low input / high return potential, ease of birth and mothering ability, hardiness, breeding true to type, adaptability, maintaining health...) There are some mini and dwarf species that have all my desired characteristics, and have proven thier reliability over time. Never mini horses.

Honest miniature horse breeders always admit thier's is a labor of love. The return on an animal exhibiting the breed standard never offsets the expense in breeding and developing that animal and the other breedings that didn't 'work'. They just aren't viable.

I try to encourage potential mini owners and enthusiasts to consider the pony breeds instead. Many (most?) pony breeds are overlooked since they've not been hyped like mini's. Many pony breeds have outstanding characteristics which make them ideal for homestead situations!

Of course that's just my opinion... *grin*

Good Luck!!

Randle

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.


Just a comment: Rogo said that ponies are draft animals. While that is true of some breeds, such as the original Shetland, it isn't true of all of them. It would be difficult to look at a Class A Welsh Mountain Pony, for example, and say that that was a draft animal! Of course, all breeds of horses and ponies have been used as draft animals at one time or another; if you have work that needs to be done, you use what's at hand to do it.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 29, 2001.

Kathleen, I said that ponies are BUILT like the draft horse. Those I've seen are.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), September 29, 2001.


Miniature Horses are always called "horses" no matter what their size, just like arabian horses are always called horses even when they're "pony-sized"(less than 14.2hh).

-- Rebekah (rebekah_swinden@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

As Kathleen pointed out, types vary widely in ponies. My first Shetland had cannon bones so small that you could encircle them with a thumb and forefinger (Women's size Medium hands). She was delicately boned, 9.3hh, but had definite pony characteristics with her head proportionately larger than a horses would be. Others I have seen have legs like sapling trees and are much coarser. From what I have seen from UK sources, my pony was close to the original Island type before they started adding heavier boned animals to produce the pit ponies.

Class A Welsh/Welsh Mountain are equally delicately boned, and show more of their Arabian influence. Class B are larger and less extremely refined, although still a very refined and beautiful pony (I've worked with a number of these). Then the Class C and D are the heavier boned and larger varieties. D/Cob actually qualify as a horse in height and weight, and are usually referred to as Welsh Cobs, to differentiate them from the smaller class Welshs. But while they have denser bone, they are not what I would call a Draft animal in build, lacking cold blood character and proportioning.

However, pound for pound, ponies can generally out-pull Clydesdales in competition, so they have been used for centuries AS draft animals (pit,mine, and peat), even though they do not have draft blood or breeding (unless outcrossed). Their lower center of gravity allows them to pull weights that taller horses have trouble moving by a simple matter of physics. They eat proportionately less for their size as well, and have made do with sparse and coarse feed in their wild past, which makes them a good choice for homestead/crofter use as they do well on smaller amounts of forage (as well as less rich -- too many ponies founder because they are given too rich and lush of pasture/forage). In this respect, the coarser 'Miniature Horses' which closely resemble their Shetland relatives are good at pulling carts and being thrifty keepers. The more refined Mini's, who are touted as 'Miniature Arabians' or 'Miniature Quarter Horses' have been selected to resemble that type of horse, but it is rare for them to be able to produce an authentic family tree that shows input from those horse breeds, andd if they do, the amount is minute. Breeders have done a fair job in selecting out refined individuals, and even ones that are subjectively pleasing to the eye, but do not expect a Shetland's ability out of them if you are thinking about homestead work, they are more of a novelty pet (although I find the new idea of using them as seeing-eye companions intriguing, but a bit unwieldy in practice).

I dare say that this is far more than you wanted to know when you asked, Shannon. The intricacies of horses, ponies, and horse breeding/trading are vast, immensely interesteing to those of us immersed in it, and usually pretty boring to anyone else.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), September 29, 2001.


Dear Shannon

I dont know how you deal with all the conflicting views everyone has sent you, there are some very closed minded people out there who have know idea what they are talking about.I am a member of both societys and it is not hard to tell the difference between a mini horse and a mini pony, when you look at large horse what you see in them, their body shape length of leg in proportion to their body long slender necks fine Arab type heads,well that is what you should look for in a mini horse just lots smaller, and yess a pony is different if the are bred from two pony types they are small compact animals and are a lot deeper in their chest with short thick legs and thicker necks for all this they are in proportion assuming they have been bred from animals with no defects.they do have some problems with breeding but in five years i have not had one that i cant handle( no vet) with out losing one mare or foal.These minis can not be compared to larger breeds for faults as ALL breeds have faults.http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/BROS9696 is a mini site you can have a look at to see both types i hope this is a help.

-- gypsy (hillviewpark@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.


Dear Shannon, When reading some of the responces you recieved I became very angered by the things people were saying about minis. It is very hard for me to stay open minded with any people who give false info about minis. I have been working with minis for 2 years and I would like to stand up for the pint sized horses I have come to love. First of all the biggest difference between minis and ponies is size. Full grown minis usually range from 25-33 inches at the wither, where as full grown ponies are usually larger. Secondly I just wanted to tell you that minis came from Fallabella, which are the unproportunate mini look-alikes, and the fallabella came from crossing shetlands with thorobreds, so although they all have differences, they're all related. Lastly, if you got your ponies registered they are either ecceptionally tiny for ponies or they could be pony/mini crosses. I hope this clears things up for you and I also thought it may help you if you look up the American Miniature Horse Association to get mini standards and hight limits.

P.S. I also wanted to say that minis are very sturdy and can be used for a variety of jobs ranging from pulling a cart/sleigh to a theripy pet to a seeing eye - guide horse to a never ending lawn mower, so enjoy and appreciate minis for what they are....an amazing little miracle.

-- Summer (summerfrost13@hotmail.com), January 01, 2002.


Yes, a great deal of these miniatures are related to the Fallabellas (who are truely horses that have been bred for generations to reduce their size), BUT the registration books for minis are STILL open so any horse that measures under 34" (for AMHR-A or AMHA) or under 38" (for AMHR-B) can be "hardship" registered. Purebred Fallabellas are actually VERY expensive (particularly ones that are well proportioned), whereas the miniature horses now are really not all that expensive. A "pet quality" mini can be anywhere from $200-$800 for a horse with minor flaws that may not make the horse disabled but should keep the horse from doing well in the halter ring and should prevent the horse from being bred.....of course the show horses tend to be more expensive (as they should) but are no longer outrageous as compared to the other breeds. There are many that have very little or NO Fallabella bloodlines however. I noticed that one of the AMHR National Champions (Champion Yearling Mare 32-36") appears to actually be a Modern Shetland (owned and bred by a farm that breeds Shetlands). She may very possibly be a purebred Shetland but as far as the stud books allow it doesn't matter as long as she doesn't exceed 38". I personally do not see this a being a bad thing as the general concensus in the Miniature Horse world seems to be to breed small horses (not always TINY) with good conformation. In the past breeding for TINY horses caused a great deal of trouble for the current bloodlines as dwarfs were used (some of the "GREAT" sires were dwarfs!) and now they tend to "pop up" in breeding occasionally. Dwarf characteristics also tend to show up a little more frequantly than all-out dwarfism......as a matter-of-fact, I have a mini with some dwarf characteristics romping in my field as we speak.....will he ever be bred? No, I'm not interested in breeding....I purchased him as a gelding.

Yes, you do occasionally see the once common tiny horse with unproportioned features, but that seems to be fading as more and more breeders strive to breed a well proportioned/conformed horse. You'd be surprised at some of them out there right now......in a photo with nothing to show scale you'd never know they were miniatures!!

Yes there do tend to be foaling troubles with some of the very small mares (usually under 30")so many farms breed somewhat larger mares in order to avoid it.....if they want smaller offspring they just breed to small stallions that tend to produce small. However, all-in-all these guys are pretty sturdy and I've found so far that they're VERY easy to care for. The BIGGEST bonus is their personalities....they tend to have an almost "dog-like" personality compared to horses and I've found so far that they're MUCH easier to train.

I have two miniature geldings......both are "pet quality", but VERY healthy. One has an underbite (a dwarf characteristic) that was very bad, but with regular floating has become only mild and is cowhocked. The other is actually very well proportioned and has mild cowhocks, but although these "flaws" keep them out of the halter/breeding ring it certainly won't prevent them from pulling the cart we have planned for their future (they are still young). Right now they're happy carrying their "doggie" backpacks to take recyclable cans/bottles down to the corner store with us to pick up a Sunday newspaper occasionally.

-- lisa - MI (lambrose@summitpolymers.com), January 01, 2002.



Shannon...I really don't know much about the differences between minis and ponies, but here in Maine (in Ellsworth, Me.) a man received the first seeing-eye mini horse. The mini was selected because of it's intelligence and willingness. That's all I know about them!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), January 01, 2002.

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