Taking God out of "God bless america"

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I heard on the news today that some public schools are having to reword their bilboard signs out in front of the schools. With the wtc. bombing and etc. the schools put up the words, "God Bless America". Well somebody complained about it cause they was mixing religion with state and now they have to take God off the bilboards to where it will only say, "Bless America".

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), September 20, 2001

Answers

Hi RH and thats whats wrong with the world imho.Bob se,ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@kans.com), September 20, 2001.

That is so sad. I know young children who don't know the words to the pledge of allegience and adults who don't know the words to the National Anthem.

-- Grannytoo (jacres40@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

Speaking of the speration of church and state.

I have always been amazed that more people do not see the constitution the way I do regarding separation of church and state. What the founding fathers did not want was a "state" religion, as the Anglican church in England, which is the national religion and is supported by the government. No mention is made that I am aware of in the constitution of separation of church and state. That was added later.

The athiests have hoodwinked everyone into believing that separation of church and state means that you cannot mention God. That is truly ridiculous. The vast majority of people in this country are believers in God, whether it be God,Jesus, Budda,Allah or whoever. I just can't believe the tiniest minority in this country holds all of the rest of us hostage in this matter.

Just something else to think about.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.


I don't for an instance belive this, it is just more "the news said" to inflame. I also don't think atheists are out to get us. I do however agree that if given the opportunity Christians would and do push their religion on folks. Recently at a High School football game, a very touching ceremony, with candles, moments of silence and singing, was our half time, this in honor of the folks who died with the recent terrorism. But of course the local reverand spoke, and ended his prayer with In Jesus Name, we pray. Though I am a Christian, it did give me pause, that he couldn't out of respect for the Jewish, Muslim, Islamic and others in our very small community, who do not believe in Jesus as God, he could not just end his prayer with, Our Heavenly Father or just Praise be to God. This is the problem with school prayer, whose prayer? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

Bob, I beg to differ with you on the national religion thing. Britian may nationally support the Anglican church but I can also definately see that our current President is very outwardly in support of the Christian religion. I don't know how far Britian takes it, but I have seen that Bush refers to god alot, as well as his beliefs. Also, all presidents that I have seen have all been photographed going to church every Sunday, like "good Christians". If this isn't publically supporting, furthering and favoring one (national) religion, I don't know what is!

I am not Christian and, although I think G.W. is doing a great job and I really like and respect him as our President, I think Presidents (or leaders of any country) should not alienate people of other religions by publicly touting their own to the extent they do, especially like when giving public addresses, speeches or press conferences/appearances. It seems to cause alot of "us and them" feelings when, if the leader merely refrained from publicly endorsing any religion (of course reserving the right to privately practice whatever he wanted to), alot of people of differing faiths would possibly be more receptive. Therefore, I do believe that any public institution should not endorse ANY religion over any other.

We may say "God" Bless America, but this country was settled by people of differing faiths, fleeing religious persecution. Not that I am for it, but for the sake of debate, what about "Buddha" Bless America; "Allah" Bless America; "Yaeweh" Bless America; and of course this list would have to include "God" Bless America. Of course, I would be offended at some of this stuff, which I'm sure y'all would as well. Hence, my point that we should refrain from the usage of such religios connotations in public matters in a society that has such diversity of faiths.

I might add that I recently saw a Muslim/Taliban supporter on tv saying basically that "allah" protected (blessed) his country with good fortune and would continue to do so. And we deem these people to be "fanatics". In the same breath, we are saying that our "god" protects our country. Are we then "fanatics" as well in some way, just a slightly different way?

-- Lisa (tepeeclan@nidlink.com), September 20, 2001.



I agree with vicki, whose prayer? I recall many yrs ago when i wa srecruited to be a school board member in western NYS there was this court case against the local city school in dunkirk, NY about this. The community wa schanging and the newer folks moving in wanted to be able to ahve freedom of religious expression, and it was a very political city too. So they threatened a lawsuit and the school board there, I wasn't on that one, had to rename the Christmas Break to Winter an dEaster to Spring. it was so strict that you couldn't even have christmas cleebrations at school. So out of respect to other religions I think we can expand this somehow and meet in the middle.

Now after we moved ot the south the situation changed, but then it is the Bible belt here.

I also wanted to say that maybe this can change because madiline O'hare, or whatever her name was is gone we can do this. Wa sshe ever found to be dead or is she still missing?

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.


If I recall, the Jewish religion doesn't spell God, it is G--. And God is awful masculine for those of the "Old Faith." And why does the monies of the U.S. say "In God we trust" if Christianity isn't a state religion? I was born and raised in the Bible Belt. Tana

-- Tana Cothran (tana@getgoin.net), September 21, 2001.

Then again, how would most Christians feel if it was changed to "Goddess Bless America"? SInce many, many ppl are born into the Christian religion, they don't realize how strange it is to have somehting like that everywhere--imagine how differant it would be, should everything say "In Cernunnos We Trust" or "Allah Bless America"? Step out of your shoes for a moment, and imagine that :) I'm not going to get into what is right or wrong, but only try to shed some light on *why* people get upset at that.

Step inside the other persons shoes sometimes :)

Bright Blessings, all :)

-- Brendan K Callahan (Grinnell, IA) (sleeping@iowatelecom.net), September 21, 2001.


I was brought up to respect all religious beliefs whether I agreed with them or not. And, I also know people who don't believe in any religion. It's fine with me as long as they respect my right to believe in God. I think it comes down to respect for others..that simple. Can you imagine what a wonderful world it would be if we all could treat each other with respect? And I will say....God bless!

-- Ardie from WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), September 21, 2001.

I agree with Vicki when she says "I do however agree that if given the opportunity Christians would and do push their religion on folks". If people would quietly practice their religion perhaphs there would be a lot less fussing.

Also, to another poster, christianity is not the only religion that has a god.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), September 21, 2001.



As an atheist, I would have to say there is no need to say 'God' or 'Bless', but plain 'America' looks naked, huh? How about "Go Team Go"? ;)

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), September 21, 2001.

Why do we keep asking God to Bless us and then keep ruining and devastating what he's given us? To me it's like a kid who keeps asking his parents for money, they give it to him and he keeps wasting it and asking for more. I think God may have reached his limit in Blessing us and before we ask for more, we ought to take better care of all that he's already bestowed upon us.

-- Rose Marie Wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.

The Taliban is a perfect example of why our founding fathers said that a state sponsored religion was a bad thing. However, I believe that's all they wanted--no state religion. I think the rest of this crap has been a seriously misguided interpretation of their intent.

-- Steve in So. WI (alpine1@prodigy.net), September 21, 2001.

Why is it that people make such a fuss about prayer and religion in schools and public places. Yet when the gays and lesbions put on a show in public places nothing is said. When I was a child in the first grade, the public school I was in let a preacher put up a tent revival on the school ground, and the school let out in the afternoon so all the children could go out and hear him preach. Back then you never heard of children killing anyone in school, because they were taught about God, and that killing is wrong.

-- Ruby McGilvra (mcfays451@aol.com), September 21, 2001.

Let us go back to one of the original posts. There is no "seperation of church and state" in the constitution. It was not in the original and it was not added later. It is mentioned in a Supreme Court decision as a quote from Thomas Jefferson. He was writing a reply to a letter from a Baptist Church who was concerned about there being a "state church" like the church of England which is finacially supported by the England. In his reply he was explaining that there would be a wall seperating the church from the state. Not that we couldn't have any religious expressions in public but that the state would be prohibited from interferring with the actions of a church. This phrase has been plucked out a letter and taken out of context as an excuse to prohibit any public religious expression.

The idea that this phrase is in the constitution as been allowed to grow and has been accepted because it is so often insinuated that it is there. There are many web sites that have the constitution - just read it - it is not that long.

-- Chris (Clmngs@aol.com), September 21, 2001.



How come they get to pray in Congress, but we can't pray in public schools?

-- Rickstir (rpowell@email.ccis.edu), September 21, 2001.

I wouldn't bring this up but since all of you thoughtful people have started this thread I do have a question and a comment. What is the difference between an athiest and an agnostic? I hope I spelled those correctly. I have respect for anyone's religion(or lack of same) and fully support their right to believe what they want. It is the cornerstone of our republic. Myself, I have to say that if there is a "supreme being" who is our "father", in this country he would be up for child abuse, endangerment, torture and neglect. Also if I may ask all of you to back way up, away from our Earth and take a good look at it. Observe all the animals. What do they do, how do they live? some survive by grazing on something and the others survive by eating those grazers. Simplisticly put, but you get the idea. Every animal on this planet has natural limits put on it's survival by nature. When time's get tough, there is no grazing, the plant eaters die off, then the meat eaters have thier populations cut too. The females of many species ,without enough to eat, reabsorb their fetuses and many predators will eat their young or just kill them once they get either short on food or there is too much food which leads to overcrowding. Every creature on the Earth is subject to the laws of natural selection. The strong and fast survive, the others don't. We are not exempt from these laws. Every species has it's natural ememies. One way or the other nature is going to find a way to control populations. We have slaughtered most all of our natural enemies except ourselves,and we are working on stamping out diseases and starvation. Now we are our own natural enemy. We will be driven to mistreat and even kill each other and our young. We no longer live in the small, extended family groups that we evolved in. Nature will keep coming up with biological controls for our species in the form of parasites, diseases etc., and man will continue to war on one another. It is just the nature of things. You might look upon religion as a very important part of this process. After all, most of the slaughter, rape and pillaging on this earth was, and still is, in the name of religion. If you doubt this, take another sad look at what happened on The eleventh of this month. I don't say this is good, or this is bad. It's just the way the Earth works. It just is.

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), September 21, 2001.

An atheist doesn't believe in God at all (from the root "theo" - God, and the prefix "a" - meaning not or against, although in this case they're not so much against as just plain unbelieving.) Agnostic means they don't know, and are suspending judgements and decisions until they do (best of luck LOL!!) (from the root "gnos" - to know, and the prefix "a" - see above)

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), September 21, 2001.

Rickstir, perhaps it is because Congress is full of adults :) With peer pressure as it is in public schools, really think the little Jewish kid in the front row is or needs to get up on his own and walk out of the classroom, because his teacher, is planning yet again, a Christmas Party? Get it at all?? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), September 21, 2001.

Thanks Soni. This is going to be a though one on all of us, no matter what our outlook. Good luck to all of us and the people we love.

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), September 21, 2001.

I believe we are all agnostics. We all hope our beliefs are true,have faith that they are true,can find others who support our beliefs, but no one has yet come up with any tangible proof' A true agnostic simply admits the truth. We don't know and are quite comfortable with that. bumper sticker.....'don't believe everything you think' :).....when one dog starts to bark at a shadow, ten thousand dogs make it a reality. Of course thats just my opinion.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), September 21, 2001.

here is the letter that Chris above was talking about: Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship,that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only,& not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion,or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supeme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights,convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. Thomas Jefferson to the Baptist Association of Danbury,Conn.,January 1,1802

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), September 21, 2001.

My kids see and sing "God Bless America in school".They are not led in prayer or told by the school that they can pray at that time. I have told my little ones they can pray any time they want. and we pray at home. It all starts in the home. I so not depend on the school to teach my children to pray. I do feel they need to bring back prayer in the schools. I also pointed out to them that every dollar bill we have say's" In God We Trust."They found that to be interesting. Teach your children what ever you want to teach, but it all begins in the home. Parents are responsible for their children. One of the schools told the children they couldnt wear the flag on their clothes because of the foreign students. It was changed back very quickly.Now that was silly. We have a right to pray, and we will, any time we want, any place we want. My kids now understand that silent time at school is a time they can silently pray. They were not told at school. I told them. It all begins in the home.I am capable of teaching my children about prayer.... My children are a reflection of me. I cant emagine a school doing that, but if our school did that my children would know better. I am also sure that school would have to answer for that.It will always be, and always has been "God Bless America". If this is true,call a higher authority. This would make the news. This is America,"In God We Trust".

-- the pooles (mpoole@link2000.net), September 23, 2001.

I would hope we never take God out of America. All of our money says in God we trust. Our great country was born on this basis and when we get in trouble where do we turn, to God of course. If God is for us who can be against us.

-- Don Amon (peacelane@certainty.net), September 25, 2001.

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