First of all, let me state up front in large letters so there can be no misunderstanding, I ABHOR RASCISM!!!!!!! Secondly, in light of all of this stuff and additionally 33 Iraqi's reportedly being detained trying to cross the Mexican border, don't you think that all visa's and green cards should be called in and the folks sent on home? Nothing personal, just go on home now, we have problems we need to address. Also all borders flat out closed until further notice? We need to close the leaking sieve and treat this like it actually is dead serious business, because it is. Isn't that just common sense?

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), September 17, 2001

Answers

I wrote both Senators from Alabama and called my congressman regarding this issue. I have several concerns. Number one would be that there are thousands of honest hard-working Americans who happen to be of the Islam faith. With the countrys' citizens being outraged at the attack on its' citizens, I fear for the safety of our fellow Americans. If only citizens or folks who have already applied for citizenship were here, it might lessen tensions among our own people. I would be so afraid if I were an Arab woman with a head scarf trying to go grocery shopping..even if I had been a citizen for 10 years I would be very afraid! I also would imagine it would be alot easier for the FBI to pinpoint the bad guys, or at least many of them if all persons holding visas were asked to leave the country. I equate this to WW2..we were at war with Germany, Japan and Italy. I cannot imagine that their citizens were allowed to stay here on visa status during the war.On the other hand, during that war, thousands of Japanese origin Americans were treated like the enemy, rounded up and placed against their will in camps. How sad. For years I have been sending letters to my senators, etc. asking to stop allowing visas to be given to those folks who are citizens of countries known to harbor terrorists. I have received letters back, saying that as long as the US has diplomatic relations with a country, visas are issued. They also say that more applications are denied than approved. Interesting that an American cannot get a visa to work and live in Ireland, England, Scotland, Australia, and Canada without proof of a job offer in that country, but folks from Saudi Arabia can get a visa to come here and dissapear into the woodwork. How was one of bin Laden's men able to work as a cab driver in Boston for over 10 years on visa status, then zip on over to Lebanon to blow people up? It seems ludicrous to me that so many terrorists have attended our universities and driven cabs in our big cities. Anyway, I can see all sides of this issue..right now when we are trying to gain the cooperation of Islamic countries, it's probably not the best of diplomatic moves to insult their citizens by deporting them. I wish there were an easy way to protect our citizens who came from other countries, and I wish there was an easy way to toss out the folks here on visas..I don't think there is a solution to either problem that will work well in the long run.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), September 17, 2001.

Lesley, I mean ALL visas. Not just islamic countries. Every bleeding country on the face of the planet. "Sorry, you guys gotta go home now, we have a problem and it must be dealt with...bye bye now." I personally have several friends that would need to go, but it's just what needs to happen. Citizens stay here and everyone else please leave in an orderly fashion. No more potential amnesty for all the illegal immigrants from Mexico, no more visas, no nothing. This is extreme, but not nearly as extreme as this war against an invisible enemy is going to be. (it is an invisible enemy, too...if you need me to explain why I will)

I saw that 23,000 jobs have been cut from the airlines, those folks need work, don't they? We can do business via electronic communications, just treat this with the seriousness it requires.

Don't you think if the idiots who decided to kill folks just because they wear turbans knew they would be attacking fellow Americans they would have less motivation to do it? I am not saying they wouldn't do it, but they sure couldn't have as much delusional power if it were citizens only at this time.

It seems time to circle the wagons.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 18, 2001.

Doreen, would this repatriation of foreigners apply to Americans in other countries? For instance US oil company workers in Saudi Arabia?

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 18, 2001.

John, I am only talking about America here. If they want to send home US workers that is their perogative. They should return on a boat and be met at sea 20 miles off the coast then brought in.....imo.

I am honestly tired of hearring that the whole world was attacked. It was the US that was attacked, not Scotland or Botswana. I do understand tthat some of the people who weere killed were citizens of other countries, but the atack was not on their countries, it was on the US.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 18, 2001.

Doreen, I understand where you are coming from but this is very personal for me. I have two daughter-in-laws who are Canadian and living in this country with my sons on Visas. They are the mother of two of my precious grandchildren. I could not send them out of this country without sending my grandchildren. I am sure there are many others who would be in this same situation. I do feel we have too many foreign people in this country who are leaches of the system and I do wish a stop could be put to this but sending out everyone with a Visa is a bit drastic. I also would like to see a stop put to the illegal aliens. I honestly feel they are the ones who helped elect Clinton.

-- Barb (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

For somebody who dislikes arguing, I seem to be leaning in that direction more and more. This is a polite question: Why would folks who live here and are married, etc. and working in this country not attain citizenship? I don't get it. I do not like the idea of Americans living in other counries and keeping their citizenship here either. It doesn't seem honest to me. Then, reponding to Doreen, I have to agree with you...I guess there are alot of folks who just do not understand "war". When a country is at war, it does not need thousands of foreign nationals roaming about the highways and byways. My own Grandmother, whom I loved deeply, was a Canadian citizen. Sometime in the 50s she stood in line to apply for citizenship and got exasperated because the fine civil servants went to lunch, closing all the windows in the faces of the folks standing in line. She never again applied. I used to have long discussions with her about this because even as a mouthy teen-ager, I felt it was not right.She felt it was not important.BTW, Grandmother received both Social Security checks as well as Medicaid in her later years...I often wondered how that could be since she was never a citizen of the USA? Makes me kind of wonder about my tax dollars at work again. My husband and I, decrying the immorality of the American culture, led by the adulterer Clinton, looked seriously at emmigrating to Canada or Great Britain a few years ago. We were rather stunned to discover that the rest of the world is not as willy-nilly as we are regarding folks moving to their countries to become citizens. Canada will allow US nationals to live there, but first you must have a job. Since both he and I are "retired", this was a problem. We could visit Canada 6 months out of the year and then return to the US for a few months and then go back, but could not become citizens. Great Britain is even more strict. It got us to thinking about visa status in this country and wondering why all these folks are allowed to come into America without jobs and just kind of hang around indefinetly? The news reported yesterday that it was so difficult to find terrorists because they wrote "Marriot Hotel" as their address when they entered the country on work visas!!!!!! C'mon! As far as Americans in other countries such as oil workers in Saudi Arabia, I don't recall hearing that Saudi Arabia is at war, or that 5000+ of their citizens were slaughtered last Tuesday by terrorists. If so, then they should oust all foreign nationals, including Americans.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), September 18, 2001.

Lesley, I agree with you. But I think if you had moved to Great Britain, hoping to escape the immorality of our culture, you would have been disappointed. I don't think they are any better off in that regard than we are, probably worse. Actually, the most moral countries in the world are the Muslim countries! As long as the United States allows us freedom of religion and free speech, I'm not willing to give up the freedom we have here for a country like that! Instead, we have to work to be moral individuals even in an immoral country.

I do think that the people who are in this country on visas ought to be sent home unless they have a very good, and proveable, reason for being here. Someone on another thread, and perhaps on another list (?) suggested that *we* ought to have passports in our emergency kits, however, I wonder, if we *did* need to flee the country, where we would go? Doesn't seem like too many other countries would be willing to take in refugees from the USA.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 18, 2001.

Barbara, I didn't for a second think this would not be heart wrenching to many. However, I think part of the reason we are in the straits we are is because we have tried to become all things to all people. As for the illegal immigrants voting for Clinton, I know many voted for Gore.....they gotta go. The Houses have given approval for war and the war has been declared, it just isn't clear how in the heck we can attack people's hearts with missiles, but we are in serious stuff here and it ought to be treated that way.

I don't mean to belittle your feelings or your situation, but I agree with Lesley. If your sons want to go with, don't your daughters in law have family in Canada as well? Drastic events call for drastic measures. These attacks with more almost guaranteed to come certainly were drastic.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 18, 2001.

If the daughters-in-law are married to American citizens, and have children who are American citizens, can't they apply for citizenship?

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 18, 2001.

Yes, both of my daughter-in-laws could apply for citizenship but as Lesley pointed out, it is not always easy and certainly something that takes time. To be honest, I don't think either of them really wants to give up their Canadian citizenship as they both have families in Canada and emotional ties there. To be honest, I really would like to see them and my sons go to Canada but that is not easy either. Americans have to have a job in Canada before they can get a Visa to stay there. The Canadians are much stricter than Americans in this respect. And yes, Doreen I feel their were many illegal aliens who voted for Gore too. The illegal ones are the ones who I think should be sent home. I also think people from the Mid EAst countries should be sent home since these are the countries involved in this mess, unless they are possibly married to Americans too. Unfortunately, years ago and it probably still happens, foreigners got someone to marry them so they could stay in this country and then later get divorced. It is not automatic now for someone to get a visa just because they are married to an American, although admittedly, it probably makes it easier.

-- Barb (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

I got a question. How do you get registered to vote if you are an illegal alien? I have been an election judge and the only way a person votes around here is if all three election judges sign off on the voters registration card if there is not the proper identification available. Damned rare. If these illegal aliens were voting, then an all out investigation of the election judges in the area needs to be done and people should be doing time for the irregularity.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), September 18, 2001.

Unfortunately everyone is not honest. Money can and has bought votes.

-- Barb (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

Sorry Doreen, regarding other countries repatriating US citizens, One of O.B.L's significant gripes is the presence of infidels in the holy land of Saudi Arabia.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 18, 2001.

You know, that gripe of OBL's seems a little strange to me. Why didn't he take his argument up with the Saudi government that allowed us to maintain a presence there, rather than with the United States? They didn't have to let us stay there! Seems to me that if our government allowed foreign troops to stay parked on our soil, we'd be angry with our own government, not declaring war on those foreign troops. Now if they were here without the government's permission, that would be a different matter, of course.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), September 18, 2001.

If they all had to leave what would happen to their assets and businesses?

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), September 18, 2001.

John, isn't Saudi the only country that has said they are 100% behind us? Shouldn't Uncle Bin take it up with his countrymen instead of us?

As for the folks on Visas assets and businesses,... don't know. I really think they should either sell them or have them managed, but I would leave that up to them to decide. If they started businesses in a foreign country, that isn't our fault. I don't mean to suggest that we rape these folks, but again, these are serious times and you cannot continue to allow foreigners to pour in or go all over, when this kind of stuff is going on. It IS war, is it not? Things in war are notoriously unfair. The rules are different than peace time....decisions are firm and hard and not to everyone's liking. But 5000+ dead citizens isn't anything to parse over.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 18, 2001.

Doreen, maybe OBL did take it up with his government and that is why he is exiled from his homeland. I think if the USA began a program to toss out all 'furreners' you would see a huge backlash from other countries expelling US citizens.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), September 19, 2001.

John, don't you want to go home in an emergency anyway?

All I am saying is that this is NOT a normal time and things are NOT going to just continue rolling along as though nothing happened even if everyone in this country spends an extra $50 a week as suggested by an email that is circulating.

What do you suggest, sir? Just keep on letting everything go unchecked and give 3+ million illegals citizenship and let more come on in?

You sound much of the time as though you have no respect for the freedoms that we are losing here in this country. We are never going to be "one world" ideologically united with everyone having a "right to freedom from war" as the UN offers up. I very much prefer peace, but it isn't going to happen. The Un's bill of sale is a load of garbage. Since it's inception more war and more people have been killed because of their direct involvement into affairs of sovereign nations. Judge it by what it actually does, not what it says.

Again, what would you have us do? I am looking for solutions to stop angry misinformed wrong headed Americans from killing dark skinned, middle eastern Americans,and to stop the rapid murders of even more of my countrymen through immigration and economically assisted terrorism.

-- (bisquit@here.com), September 19, 2001.

Doreen, if in fact there is not hope for peace how ever can we have a vision to strive for?? If the only thing we have to look forward to is more of the same, how can we possible go on?? My question about people and their businesses and assets is a very important one, not offered up lightly. In my rather small rural community of the top 10 employers over one half are companies owned by people of other countries; with managers from all over the world. We are a WORLD community whether we want to admit it our not. You derive your income from a small business..........would you want to just leave it and trust it to someone else?? Our president is telling us that this will be a very LONG war. the al-Qaida has cells in every country of the world. We as Americans are terribly injured by this particular event, but it is truly a world problem.

I personally have not gotten a complete handle on the magnitude of this problem. The more I think the more complex I see the problem. It, if you will forgive the medical analogy, is like working in the emergency room when a patient is brought in with several massive lacerations. The immediate goal is to stop the bleeding. Anyone who has ever worked ER has lost a patient unexpectedly because all the attention had been focused on the obvious injury and the most critical one was missed. If a man comes in who has lost a hand in a hay bailer the first thing we do is save his life and then look at the safety of the bailer and did he have his hand somewhere it didn't belong.

The United States of America has two HUGE wounds. It is obvious that she will not die from those wounds, however painful and ugly they might be. My concern is that we not ignore the potential fatal condition while treating the wound and it's cause.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), September 19, 2001.

Diane, the Bible SAYS there will not be peace until after all of this is done. Has there ever been peace on the world? There are always wars and insurrections. This isn't to say that you don't strive to live in peace with your neighbors, but it something that will only truly be achieved on this planet with the return of Christ and the millenial kingdom. The rise of the anti Christ will bring a peace that is at the barrel of a gun, and only for a short time, then violence like the world has never seen.

I agree that we have made a mess for ourselves. Hugely. It is my opinion that we will be unable to stop or deter more horrible acts of terrorism because we are afraid of losing wealth, so you're right. We have had it and will offer up my belief that this is indeed only the beginning of the sorrow.

As I said in one (or more) of my posts above, I am simply trying to find alternatives to more murders. Not trying to make life safe, but just to bring somewhat of a sense of "togetherness" to my nation.

For those of you who don't believe the Bible.....well, you can try and think of solutions yourself. As for me, I am determined that there is only one.

Which two wounds? I see three, and some various bleeders. The three I see are the loss of life at NY and the devastation there, the loss of life at Dc and thhe slap in the face of both of those, then the tthird is the economy dropping like rock......losing BP.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), September 20, 2001.

I think the third wound you discribe is the one I think could be fatal and that needs to be looked at. So you see, we are in agreement. I guess we just all trudge on knowing that we will find peace in heaven??

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

Dude one time I was walkin' down the street singin' doo a dee dee dee dee dum dee dee do. And all of a sudden I fell to the ground. Cause I was a f*ck!ng immigrant and I had all these vanarial desieses. SO my c0ck like itched like mad then I realized it was all my fault because I'm from Mexico. That ever happen to any of you?

-- Jose (xxxwhiplashxxx@hotmail.com), October 10, 2002.