I would like to hear what people think the reason was that this was done?

Or are you confused and looking for the reason, trying to figure out what kind of mentality would cause some people to do such a thing.

Where are you on this?

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), September 15, 2001

Answers

pitouey!

I'd spit in your face in person if I could.

-- Betsy Ross (Red White @nd .blue), September 15, 2001.

Or are you confused and looking for the reason, trying to figure out what kind of mentality would cause some people to do such a thing.

I guess this is where *I*'m at, Cherri, although I've read all the conjecture. It's hard to pinpoint. First of all, the acts require a mindset intent on retaliation, a passion for revenge. It doesn't even matter if the retaliation was for a perceived or real event. Secondly, the acts require more than just passion for a cause. They require a heart of ICE.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 15, 2001.

What Betsy said!

-- Go (away@Cherri.com), September 15, 2001.

Subject: Okay, who knows why this happened?

By "this" I guess you mean the attack on WTC. Simple, "they" (the Osama types) hate us. They hate us because we exist. There is no appeasement possible. Then, they would only hate us more for our weakness.

They are bubble gum on our shoe. They will not go away untill we die or they die.

We are in an undeclared war to the death. Did we "deserve" it either thru our own mistakes or our own nefariousness? No, they would hate us if we were the warmest, fuzziest goo-goos around.

It is "them" (the terorists, not all the Muslim peoples, yet) or us. The gauntlet is down. We are at war.

Welcome to the 21st century. Welcome to the 12th century.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 15, 2001.

you got it lars, time for folks too=know your enemy. they DO NOT, think like we think. they don,t need a cushy life-style.

we are in for a loooooong war,1 we must win. but it's goung to take the guts=like the Israeli's have,and FACING =REALITY--like the Israeli's do. we are up against a satanic-mind.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), September 15, 2001.

Lars: Just a week ago or so I asked how Christian Republicans could justify the monies being sent to Afghanistan when they were clearly stating that Christians must die. At the time, you replied, "We love them." Has there been a change in your beliefs since Tuesday of this week?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 15, 2001.

Why do we need a war, Al.

Where is that peaceful, loving, forgiving nature that is the Spirit of Christ within you, hmmm? Why would you wish for more death and more violence? What sort of fruit are you producing, Al?

-- (ohplease@oh.please), September 15, 2001.

C-Span, right now has a show on in which you they are explaining why terrorism. 11am PDT. Betsy, cut off your nose to spite your face, it's your nose. It just happenes I have kept myself informed then the avaerage citisen.

Is it more important to direct your hatred to me than to face reality, that is your choice. I am not the enemy, I am just not a media controlled citizen who sucks up whatever someone else decides I should think.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), September 15, 2001.

right on cherri

-- (cin@cin.cin), September 15, 2001.

rite rite on, cherri. most americans,are too busy partying and thinking,we will never be attacked.who would dare[pride] well we ain't seen nuthin YET!!------yup [pride]alway's goes before the fall!

greed & politicians=will alway's get us up a creek.

i feel bad,for the average joe-blow,because[as usual] we 're gonna pay the price,for someone else.=guess who?

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), September 15, 2001.

poor betsy, must not be getting ANY.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), September 15, 2001.

poor betsy, must not be getting ANY.

P.S. HAVING A GAS-MASK HANDY-IS PRUDENT.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), September 15, 2001.

Al: poor betsy, must not be getting ANY. P.S. HAVING A GAS-MASK HANDY-IS PRUDENT.

I was going to ask why I should have a gas-mask, but you seem to be suggesting that a gas-mask is to be used as a sex-toy? If I'm incorrect in this assumption, Al, please tell me WHY I would think that a gas-mask is prudent for me.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 15, 2001.

Lars: Just a week ago or so I asked how Christian Republicans could justify the monies being sent to Afghanistan when they were clearly stating that Christians must die. At the time, you replied, "We love them." Has there been a change in your beliefs since Tuesday of this week?

Anita--

Yes, a week ago was BWTC. That was a different world. I took the remark on the $43 million to be a Bush-bashing quibble and I tried to respond with ironic humor. That is not to say I would not still reply "we love them". I would simply modify the word to be "tough love".

In 1969 there was a piece of creative graffiti that I saw in Madison, WI. This was at the time when the peaceniks were morphing to lefty militants; at the time when the V peace sign was morphing to the clenched fist. The graffiti said "Armed Love".

"Armed love" is the type of love that I would now extend to bin Laden and friends. That is the type of love that he understands. I don't include all Muslims when I say this. I do include all "Islamists".

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), September 15, 2001.

It happened because "they" have the same mentality that "we" do.

They scream threats and demand retribution when they blame us for something.

They cannot be persuaded that more than one side to the story exists.

They think God is on their side.

They think we are evil.

They think the world will be a better, safer place without us.

They demonize anyone among their own who wish to consider peace with the enemy.

They put a plane into a target, we put a plane into the ground to avoid a target. Both sides view the actions of their own as noble. We all hope for the courage to give our lives for the good of our many.

Personally, I think it's too late to find a peaceful way out. Hatred is a powerful emotion that leaves a path in the brain where the same angry thoughts are replayed, keeping the reason for the hatred fresh and new.

Our family members lost many people they cared about. If they hate, if they demand vengeance, if they seek war, how could I blame them? How could I refuse to help my own?

My counterpart is on the other side.

-- helen (all@bloodbaths.are.red), September 15, 2001.

Bin Laden has initiated a Religious War from his standpoint. Anyone who is non-Muslim is an Infidel. Infidels must NOT besmirch the Muslim Holy Lands in his viewpoint. He is particularly incensed by our presence in Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Hence, we have become the Enemy. Hence we deserve to die. Much like Hitler's attempt to eradicate the Jews, Bin Laden wants to eradicate anything and everything that stands in the way of the Golden Rule Islam once enjoyed. He hates us simply because we exist.

-- I've (AskedThis@Too.com), September 15, 2001.

Cherri they did this cause it created the biggest bang for the buck. These people would wage all out warfare if they had the troops, technology and money. They do incremental war because they have no other choice but don't mistake their resolve.

This poses a real problem for a nation that has waged only incremental war since 1945. The mindset just isn't ready. It's like slapping fleas (I have experience) instead of fumigating the house and yard. The western world will get past that only when they realize those fleas of Islam carry plague. Christianity's KKK fleas are similar.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), September 15, 2001.

GOOD POINT CARLOS.---HOW DO YOU FIGHT=THOUGHTS??

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), September 15, 2001.

By talking to you al. Very slowly, very carefully.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), September 15, 2001.

From the Miami Herald

Published Friday, September 14, 2001

For bombers, getting ready takes years

BY MEG LAUGHLIN mlaughlin@herald.com

Along with the mind-boggling enormity of this tragedy, the knowledge, organization and discipline that went into training the terrorists who pulled off such crimes seem nearly unimagineable.

If, as intelligence agencies are saying, it is the work of suicide bombers from the Middle East, the devastating moments of destruction came after years of testing and teaching.

It starts with recruiting young Jihad devotees in the mosque, says Bob Baer of Washington, D.C., a former CIA counterintelligence officer who worked with people who infiltrated terrorist camps in Lebanon, Iraq, Palestinian territories and northern Africa, in his study of suicide bombers. ``The imam, the head of the mosque, looks for young men who are especially quiet, polite and devout enough to die for a cause. They are separated from the group and the training begins.''

These training groups, often made up of two or three brothers from several families, usually number about 20 in a group. They train for years together. Among the things Baer has seen them do: spend hours on their knees in the hot sun (often on prayer mats on concrete) to show their discipline.

``I have seem them pass out and throw up, but never complain, never quit,'' Baer says.

He has also seen their leaders shoot within inches of their heads as they kneel, in order to see who flinches.

``I once saw a young man remain perfectly still when the top of his ear was shot off,'' Baer said.

He has also witnessed their ``trials by fire.'' Most of the people put on suicide missions burn to death, he says. So, they are trained and tested for years to make sure that being close to fire will not make them panic.

They dive through burning tires, crawl on their bellies under burning hurdles. They come out burned and coughing, he says, but they do it over and over, rehearsing for the final moment.

Some trainers require recruits to be repeatedly slapped in the face by men with razor blades between their fingers. To keep them from being afraid of blood and to build character, Baer says.

``It amazes me that our political leaders call them cowards and lunatics. They are neither. They are not the kind of people who pull the wings off insects. They are determined, well-trained men who love their families, but will do anything to carry out their missions,'' he says.

Along with physical tests, recruits study the Quran (Koran), which like most religious literature, lends itself to a multitude of interpretations. They work in study groups 15 to 18 hours a day. Unlike the great majority of peace-loving Muslims, these young men are always taught the interpretation that would justify violence, Baer says.

``They are true believers, not thugs,'' he says.

Many of them spend summers in the United States or years in school here -- at community colleges, business schools, technical schools, universities and even flight schools. They learn English. They like American TV, music, action films and fast food. But they rarely socialize with Americans, remaining steadfast in the belief that Americans are the power behind their oppressors and must be stopped.

``What really bothers me,'' Baer says, ``is that my many Muslim friends in the U.S. are not like this. But they could be lumped in and treated so unfairly.''

Suicide mission recruits often get psychological training in hijacking -- how a few can control many, he says. They learn how to subdue passengers and crew who far outnumber them so that they can commandeer a plane.

``You immediately kill someone to show you mean business -- usually by slitting their throat from ear to ear because it's so dramatic. Then you take a hostage but tell everyone that no one else will get hurt as long as they do what they're told,'' he says.

They are trained in how to get weapons on a plane, how to set up a network of support on all levels in order to pull off acts of terrorism.

Paul Hudson, director of the Aviation Consumer Action Project in Washington, D.C.: ``Our present airport security systems are a sieve. As they are, terrorists can go through them like water, and they know this.''

Billie Vincent, a security consultant to commercial airlines and to airports, says there are many ways these terrorists could get weapons past security and onto planes. At Logan airport in Boston, where two of the planes in this disaster originated, the most common breach in security, Vincent said, used to be at the X-ray machines for carry-on baggage.

``When we studied Logan a few years back,'' he said, ``we found insiders hired.''

But, Vincent says, perhaps this problem had been remedied, and the suicide bombers chose to hijack planes from Logan for other reasons: ``Proximity to their targets and the support teams in safe houses in the area.''

``You can be sure that anyone who takes the time and work necessary to fly a 757 or a 767 jet, as these terrorists did, will not to be deterred by airport security. They tested the security systems on dry runs before they did this,'' Vincent says.

He said that another common hole in security is through catering -- food brought on planes. An American Airlines pilot, who asked not to be named, agreed with him.

``I worry about what could get on one of my planes through the people who load the food,'' the pilot said.

``They make $5 an hour and they're not screened for employment.''

But, Vincent said, if all the terrorists used were box cutters with removable blades and pocket knives, they could have gone right through security with either.

``You can legally get through security with things that could slit a throat,'' he said.

Vincent also noted that the hijacking pilots were not just trained to fly a plane well enough to hit their targets. In at least two of the planes -- those flying into the World Trade Center -- the terrorists were sophisticated enough to simulate an electrical problem to keep from being closely tracked.

``By turning off the transponders, their secondary radar systems, and the radios, they drew less suspicion,'' he said.

The American pilot agreed: ``This kind of electrical problem is not uncommon. You'd go to the nearest airport and this would explain to the tower why you're off course.''

Several things impressed the pilot about the level of the terrorists' training: Hitting the Pentagon took a lot of flying skill -- ``getting that low and coming in at that angle.'' They also knew that a commercial airline pilot feels bound to protect everyone on the plane and would leave the cockpit if passengers or crew were in danger.

``They knew how we think,'' he said.

-- Read (learn@inwardly.digest), September 15, 2001.

Many of them spend summers in the United States or years in school here -- at community colleges, business schools, technical schools, universities and even flight schools. They learn English. They like American TV, music, action films and fast food. But they rarely socialize with Americans, remaining steadfast in the belief that Americans are the power behind their oppressors and must be stopped.

The stupid fucks like all the benefits but hate us?! What a bunch of morons. They are no where half as bad as US Navy Seals. Seals eat terrorist for breakfast and spit em out.

-- Tony Baloney (Fuck the@terrorists.com), September 15, 2001.

Sorry for my contribution to the thread drift Cherri.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), September 15, 2001.

I bet they even watch CNN{WINK} and we tell em everything. 20 here 20 there 20?20 everywhere. can hardly wait,too hear ara rat' tell us how sad he is>barf. how many cell groups??? meantime back in biejing--muslim care pkgs. are joy joy. next time ya see an arab, with a briefcase[nuke]=depart rapidly. ummmmmm should we be concerned about our drinking water?? chinks like DUCK, i,m in big trouble.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), September 15, 2001.

Al I never knew you were a bigot

-- (ohplease@oh.please), September 15, 2001.

America, at the behest of it's true rulers, spends the better part of the 20th century shitting all over the rest of the world and when it comes home to roost you do not even know why? The ignorance is breath-taking, doesn't your constitution forbid foreign wars....hmmmm?

What goes around comes around.....

-- Will (righthere@home.now), September 15, 2001.

So, asshole, do you think Poland was responsible for the German blitzkrieg? Maybe the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust? The US for Pearl Harbor? Oklahoma federal workers for the bombing? Chandra Levy for her disappearance? Give me a fucking break.

-- Blame the (victim@why.don't.you?), September 16, 2001.

Globe and Mail

POSTED AT 12:02 PM EDT Saturday, September 15

Gee: Stop making excuses for terrorism

By MARCUS GEE From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Before we can fight terrorism with any success, we have to change the way we think about it.

People in the West often assume that terrorists must be driven to it by some burning grievance. If the men of the Irish Republican Army bomb a pub in Belfast, it must spring from their anger over the British occupation. If a Palestinian suicide bomber blows himself up outside an Israeli disco, it must spring from his frustration over the harsh Israeli occupation of the West Bank.

Call it the "root causes" theory. What terrorists do may be despicable, goes the argument, but they did it because their grievances had been ignored by a brutal occupier, an oppressive government or an indifferent world. It follows that the only way to end terrorism is to address the "root causes."

Serious students of terrorism rejected the "root causes" theory long ago. Terrorism does not spring spontaneously from social deprivation or political oppression. If it did, then every poor and undemocratic country would be a hive of terrorists. Soviet dissidents never resorted to murdering innocent civilians, nor did the opponents of Nazism -- though they were fighting some of the worst forms of oppression ever seen.

Terrorism is a deliberate form of political or ideological warfare waged by fanatics with a disposition for unlimited violence. In the case of extreme religious terrorists, whether Islamic or Christian or Sikh, they are engaged in a holy war, a struggle for the fate of the world that justifies any amount of bloodshed.

Addressing "root causes" will not stop people like that. Even if Israel pulled out of the West Bank tomorrow, Islamic terrorist groups would keep trying to kill Israelis. To them, it is not the Israeli occupation that rankles. It is the very existence of Israel. It is pure hatred, more than grievance, that drives them.

Yet the "root causes" notion lives on. We have seen it twice this week on these very pages. The day after Tuesday's attack, University of Toronto scholar Thomas Homer-Dixon argued that the root cause of terrorism was the growing gap between rich countries and poor ones.

"These differences breed envy and frustration and, ultimately, anger," he wrote. "The problem will never go away if we don't address the underlying disparities that help motivate such violence."

Then, in yesterday's paper, columnist Rick Salutin said that the key to defusing support for terrorism was "eliminating the worst cases of wretchedness that sustain it." His suggestion: End Western sanctions against Saddam Hussein's Iraq and get Israel to pull out of the West Bank.

No doubt both writers abhor what happened this week as much as everyone else. But by making excuses for terrorism, even qualified excuses, they give the perpetrators what they crave most: legitimacy. Worse, they acquit them of responsibility for their own actions.

If terrorism springs from their frustration over unanswered grievances, then it is not really their fault. It is merely a disease and they are simply the carriers, "rather in the way that innocent animals might be the carriers of rabies" (as the conservative U.S. author Midge Decter once put it).

That not only gives comfort to the terrorists, it hurts the effort to fight them. If terrorists are not morally responsible for their own actions, then it frees the rest of us from the burden of taking them on.

Well, that freedom just ended. We now know we must confront terrorism face to face. Before we do that, we must learn to see it as it is -- not as the product of "root causes" but as the result of a deliberate decision to kill in the name of hate.

-- Blame the (victim@why.don't.you?), September 16, 2001.

"'They are true believers, not thugs,' he says..."

I agree. They're far worse than thugs. Thugs kill for money. True believers kill for kicks -- i.e., for the "buzz" they get as they're convinced they're going to paradise.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), September 16, 2001.

Eve: I don't think they kill for the "buzz". I DO think they do what they do for the reward they believe they'll get in the afterlife. Our own beloved Al does the same, and seems to look forward to that event over and above what this temporary earth life offers.

I know the feelings some have on The Guardian, but t his article makes sense to me.

OTOH, some things just don't make sense to me about all this pointing to Islam. I'll hunt around for what I read about that.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 16, 2001.

Eve: It was this site in which I read the Who Benefits? article. I haven't read the other sublinks at the site, and don't even know who they are or what THEIR agenda is, but I stuff all this stuff into my head and wait for a few nights of sleep while digestion takes place.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 16, 2001.

The plot thickens.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 16, 2001.

There's enough information flowing about on Afghanistan to fill a book.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), September 16, 2001.