My M6TTL and lenses just arrived. I am new to Leica but not new to photography. I have not in general used UV filters to protect my lenses before unless I anticipated being in a very wet or dusty environment. I have read that Leica glass is more easily damaged by cleaning and it certainly is very expensive. So, I wonder whether I should put a high quality protective filter on these lenses. I am hesitant to add 2 more air glass interfaces to the lens and wonder if it will significantly degrade the "legendary" Leica optical quality. On the other hand I sure would hate to see these lenses damaged. What do you folks do? If you use a filter which brand/type do you use? How does it effect your image quality. Thanks!

-- Steve Rosenblum (stevierose@yahoo.com), September 05, 2001

Answers

Too bad we don't have a "filter" category in the archives, as this one has been answered before many times. Some folks like me use the new B+W multicoated filters on Leica M lenses. They are of such high quality, I doubt you'd be able to see any reduction in optical quality in 99.9% of your shots even blown up to 16X20. They cost only a few percent of what a new front element would, so I keep one on as an optical lens cap. Other folks believe they are spoiling the virgin light path through the Leica glass, and think the new hard coatings on the modern lenses will take normal cleaning without any damage to the front element.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), September 05, 2001.

Steve:

Welcome to Leica World! You have touched upon one of the most controversial topics among Leica users! :-) Most users have VERY strong opinions. In a "wet or dusty environment", I almost always use a UV filter. I have B+W multicoated UV filters, and also a few made by Leica. Both types of filters are very expensive! I have never noticed any image degradation. Other Leica users have reported similar experiences. But if the image includes a strong light source, then I would watch out for flare. BTW, Heliopan filters are considered to be in the same league as B+W & Leica filters.........................

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), September 05, 2001.

BTW, strong flare due to a filter or whatever can usually be detected when taking the picture because of the unrealistic meter reading you'll get. I haven't found it to be a major or even minor problem myself.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), September 05, 2001.

I usually always use a UV - either B+W or Heliopan MC filter on my lenses. I have tested the lenses with/without the UV and can see no difference in quality scrutinizing with a powerful loupe.

-- David (pagedt@attglobal.net), September 05, 2001.

If for nothing else, use a UV or Skylight filter to protect the front element of your lens. Some people are convinced that using any filter will degrade the image on film. I really don't know whether or not this is true since I have always placed a filter on the lens immediately after purchase in the case of used lenses or right out of the box with a new lens. I think it a prudent precautionary measure to use a filter on all your lenses. Debris on the front element can inflict "painful" scratches in your lens coating or glass.

-- John Alfred Tropiano (jat18@psu.edu), September 05, 2001.

Well, the only time you might notice them is in contre-jour situations, as others have noted. Otherwise you won't notice. Still, because I don't want to be bothered to take them off when shooting against strong light, I don't use them, unless in bad conditions (sea spray). I have never had a front element scratched yet in almost 30 years of photography. Mind you I keep my caps on, when not using the lenses!

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), September 05, 2001.

Thanks for all the helpful answers thus far. I agree that a few more categories would be useful in view of the lack of a search engine. This issue was discussed in response to one of my previous posts inquiring about how to search the forum. Thanks for tolerating my newbie Leica questions. I have found this forum to most helpful and unfailingly polite, unlike some others I regularly visit. I hope I can be helpful to others after I get through my Leica learning curve.

-- Steve Rosenblum (stevierose@yahoo.com), September 05, 2001.

I'm in the "no filter" category. Aside from using colored filters for black & white work, I only use UV or protective filters (B+W, Heliopan, Leica) if I'm in a particularly dirty or messy environment (e.g., salt spray @ beach) & on my older Leitz lenses w/their soft coatings (Summicron DR, etc.). That said, I'm fanatical about using lens hoods @ all times & caps when I'm not shooting.

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@cris.com), September 05, 2001.

Ditto as to Chris Chen.

-- Cosmo Genovese (cosmo@rome.com), September 05, 2001.

What I don't like is having little accessories to deal with while I am actively shooting pictures. This means lens caps, I hate dealing with them. Therefore, I always put a filter on my lenses the day I take them out of the box (leaving the lens cap in the box). And then just handle the camera with the filter to protect the front element 24/7. I have tried the no-filter no-lenscap route, but the lens invariably gets dusty and gritty and I hate cleaning the front element (feels like grinding it away!!). I rationalize the loss of image quality and increased flare on two fronts. First, I usually shoot handheld where camera shake far exceeds the degradation caused by the filter, and two, I take the filter off when I know I am going for the ultimate in image quality. I sleep good at night.

My only problem now is rear lens caps, but one body per lens is a pretty expensive way to overcome that dilima !^)

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), September 05, 2001.

A followup question. If I put a B+W UV filter on my Tri-Elmar do I need to worry about the filter causing vignetting at 28mm? Do I need to get a "slim" filter?

-- Steve Rosenblum (stevierose@yahoo.com), September 05, 2001.

Protective filters are the result of a cooperative venture between camera store accountants and Satan. I've heard rumours that stores make as much profit off the filter as the lens it is supposed to "protect".

Modern Leica lenses need no such panty-waisted mollycoddling. The effect of a bit of sea spray or dust on the front element pales in comparison to what those contaminants are doing to the rest of your camera.

If you're prone to scratching the unprotected front elements of your lenses, use a non-collapsible hood, butI've never noticed this to be a problem, frankly.

Camera store salesmen prey on our paranoia in order to fatten their bottom line. We must stand united against their self-serving schemes. Just Say No to Filters.

-- Paul Chefurka (paul_chefurka@pmc-sierra.com), September 05, 2001.

I never used filters on my Zeiss lenses (for CONTAX) and never had any problem. However adding to surfaces to your optics will degrade the quality you get. As a matter of fact the New York Institute of Photography does recommend using "protecting filters" because of quality loss.

-- Samir (sjahjah@club.lemonde.fr), September 05, 2001.

Leica lens expert Erwin Putts, who I would have thought would have come out strong against filter use with modern Leica lenses, said in a post I read that loss from a good quality filter was less than 2%-- basically immeasureable except with sophisticated testing equipment. He also said that even a slight defocus created a 30 to 80% loss of sharpness, and handholding below 1/125 could result in a 50% loss of resolution in a good percentage of shots. Just something to think about.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), September 05, 2001.

There are no easy answers to The UV filter question. I only use them where the lens is in danger; blowing sand, track side at a car race.....mud wrestling (!?). After twenty years of UV filter use, I never had to change a filter, so I took them off. Did my pictures improve dramatically? No, but, I did have fewer problems with flare. That is a significant point with a rangefinder camera. I do use the supplied lens hood as a bumper and that seems to be enough for me.

It all comes down to you. If you are not going to be comfortable using the camera without a UV filter mounted, then put one on. I started that way but, after listening to all of Ted's ( http://www.islandnet.com/~tedgrant) and Tina's ( http://www.straylight.ca/locke) is based on the east coast of Canada and photographs a lot of offshore oilfield work and photojournalism around the world. He encounters gale force winds and hangs out in, and off of, boats and helicopters. He uses UV filters, takes marvellous pictures and has replaced many damaged UV filters. Robert Appleby also uses UV filters ( http://www.robertappleby.com) and his pictures are gorgeous.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), September 05, 2001.

Let us try that again:

There are no easy answers to The UV filter question. I only use them where the lens is in danger; blowing sand, track side at a car race.....mud wrestling (!?). After twenty years of UV filter use, I never had to change a filter, so I took them off. Did my pictures improve dramatically? No, but, I did have fewer problems with flare. That is a significant point with a rangefinder camera. I do use the supplied lens hood as a bumper and that seems to be enough for me.

It all comes down to you. If you are not going to be comfortable using the camera without a UV filter mounted, then put one on. I started that way but, after listening to all of Ted's:

http://www.islandnet.com/~tedgrant

and Tina's:

http://main.nc.us/openstudio/tinamanley/

stories, I soon realised it was very unlikely I would encounter anything like they had. If they are not using them why am I?

As a counter point Greg Locke:

http://www.straylight.ca/locke

is based on the east coast of Canada and photographs a lot of offshore oilfield work and photojournalism around the world. He encounters gale force winds and hangs out in, and off of, boats and helicopters. He uses UV filters, takes marvellous pictures and has replaced many damaged UV filters. Robert Appleby also uses UV filters:

http://www.robertappleby.com

and his pictures are gorgeous.

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), September 05, 2001.

Yes. A UVa filter is a good idea, especially when using lenses that cost $ 500 - $ 1500 or more. It is much safer to clean a filter than the front element of an expensive lens. You may eventually cause damage from constant cleaning to remove dust, even if the lens is hard coated. Furthermore, a good quality filter (especially if it is multi-coated) should cause minimal if any image degradation. Having pushed a 21/3.4 Super-Angulon lens into a glass window, it was fortunate that there was a filter in place.

Eliot

-- Eliot M. Rosen (erosen@lij.edu), September 05, 2001.

I must say it's nice to see so many polite replies to this old chestnut. It says a lot for this forum, IMHO.

To keep this on topic, I never use a filter except for a polarizer occasionally but my opinion on the use of protective UV filters is neutral. If I had them I'd probably use them.

Regards, Ray

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), September 06, 2001.

If you use the Leica M the way i believe it's made for - that is handheld shooting under various conditions, I doubt very much that anyone could see the difference with/without a good quality filter. If not having a filter mounted makes you act more carefully during a shoot, you could loose a shot to this. Hence, I use a filter and my M6 is always ready for action (no caps to take off, and no front lens element to worry about).

-- Arild Reppen (arilre@online.no), September 06, 2001.

Filter The use of filters with the Noctilux-M f/1/50 mm is not recommended.

It is in the instruction booklet. There must be some issue with filter on this lens.

Filters simply can introduce more flare and glare sometimes. Try shooting to a bright light source around with and without a filter (I use Leica UV filters) you should see the slight difference (slides under a loupe). Expose a roll of Provia 100F sytematically with and without the filter and find out yourself. Everyone should do it and report his/her finding two weeks from now right here, especially those who care about image quality.

It is clear that UV filter has no benefit to image quality. The coating in our lens has enough to deal with haze, UV......However we need protection of the front element. So we use the filter when we are not using the camera and when we are shooting handholding the camera. Remove the filter when we put the camera on a tripod in a friendly environment.

-- Damond Lam (damond_lam@hotmail.com), September 07, 2001.

If you use Provia 100F then a UV filter provides the added benefit of removing the slight blue cast that the film seems to have. YMMV.

A

-- Andrew B (andrewboshoff@hotmail.com), September 10, 2001.