Pagans, Christians, Fundies?

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Hey there,

I just found the thread about the Pagans interview. I read most of it and was sort of surprised.

Now, I'm a Christian and I hate the label of fundamentalist because that label is usually applied to a 'cult' group of people who claim to be Christians. They are in reality nothing more than 'hate mongers' who like to think they are gods.

I appreciated john leake's post on your thread. It's not my job to go around correcting people of other faiths. You have a right to your own beliefs. I will not usually get into somebody's face and tell them I think they are wrong unless provoked to do so; however, if asked what I think will help in a situation, I will share my experience, strength and hope.

If someone claims to be a Christian (ie, someone who believes in Jesus Christ and the infallible Word of God) then yes, I will state my case according to what I think is proper. That being because of our common belief commanding us to nurture, correct, uphold and protect one another.

I can be pretty blatant about what I don't like, especially those who are determined to take our rights away from us and this includes the majority of 'greens' and 'tree huggers'.

I have no problem with sharing a forum with pagans, as I used to be one. It doesn't mean that I like or agree with your beliefs because I don't. It does mean that I value each person's right to choose their own faith, as long as it doesn't infringe upon my rights.

That's why all the foriegnors flocked to America in the first place. They wanted a place where they could worship freely.

I'm Indian, but I don't embrace the belief systems of Indians. If that's okay with you, then I'm glad. If it isn't then your not a true homesteader at heart and I'm wondering what you are doing here.

-- Stephanie Nosacek (possumliving@go.com), September 02, 2001

Answers

Hi Stephanie:

I'll reply before this thread gets deleted. You are right. Everyone has a right to their own belief, even if it means spending eternity apart from God in eternal torment. Your own Indian culture provides evidence that God has placed a testimony to Himself in every nation and tribe of people. I believe that in every American Indian belief system is the idea of a Supreme Being, Creator. True obedience to that knowledge should bring individuals to the truth of the gospel, as it did in your case. (Romans 1:18-20)

I agree with you, we cannot shove our faith down anyone's throat, but we should be ready: "always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence" I Peter 3:15

I missed the Pagan interview thread. Where did you find it?

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), September 02, 2001.


Hello Stephanie, I just read all the archives concerning pagans and was dismayed at the hostility brewed by certained "Christians" over the honesty the pagans had about their religious beliefs. Religion does have a place here but, it should be treated as one of the needed "tools" for a homesteader to use to help him fulfill his goals and not a declaration of who is wrong or who is right. I too, have an "odd" religion that would cause Christians to comment on and though I am not ashamed of my beliefs, I feel that it is only a tool for my objectives in life. What is wrong is violence and defamation to another human being, period. We all have a right to life regardless of our social, economic, or religious convictions. Let us celebrate our right to life and not condemn each other because of our beliefs... Sincerely, Ernest

-- http://communities.msn.com/livingoffthelandintheozarks (espresso42@hotmail.com), September 02, 2001.

I am answering this post in hopes that others who call themselves Christians will read this. I am not directing this to anyone else. As a Christian myself, I have been amazed and disappointed to read the comments directed at pagans. I am not ashamed of what I believe, and I will try to share that whenever I have opportunity. But this should be done out of love and compassion, not criticism. And it should not be forced on someone, or shoved down their throats. Watch your words and the manner in which you speak. James 1:26 "If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain." Those of us who believe in the sovereign grace of God know that God works in men's hearts, drawing them to himself. We need to get the Word out, ("how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?") but let God do the persuading as he sees fit.

Along those same lines, I believe that you can let folks know what you believe without actually "proselytizing" (lack of a better word at the moment). If they are curious and want to know more, they can e-mail you privately. It has been made perfectly clear that "proselytizing" is not welcome on this forum, and I believe we should respect that. Ken, I hope I have not said too much.

-- Cathy N. (keeper8@attcanada.ca), September 02, 2001.


Stephanie:

I suspect you have the wrong forum since I sure don't remember the thread you are referring to. Perhaps you saw it on the Freedom/Self- Reliance Forum. Other possibilities are the Beyond the Sidewalks or A Village Common forums.

As long as it remains a quite discussion it will not be deleted. The first time someone starts prophetizing or witnessing or condemning, it will likely be. Fair warning given.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 02, 2001.


GOD has spoken, aka Ken.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), September 02, 2001.


Stephanie,

I have no problem with others sharing their beliefs,views,ideas,etc., if done in friendly manner and with reasoning.Someone sometime might just have a better idea or way and that is part of what homesteading is about,learning from others as you go along and that includes religions of all types.

I happen to have beliefs (a mixture of man-made & natural beliefs) that put some Christians or Pagans up in arms,and for them I feel sadness that they have to act like that. E-mailing others is probably the best way if you want to find anything out about something as others have done already to me.

I have studied different religions/ways of living for over 25 yrs now and one thing still remains the same, they fought over it 3000 yrs ago and they fight over it now. It's sad to say,but we really haven't,as humans,come very far at all.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), September 02, 2001.


Joe:

Dave is God (CEO). I'm more like the COO.

Ken S.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), September 02, 2001.


Where is this thread?? I must have missed something as I haven't the slightest idea what it was about. I'm a Christian who believes "live and let live". God bless!

-- Ardie from WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), September 02, 2001.

Stephanie, I have an awe and a fear of God. That fear is what keeps me from presuming what God ALONE, has the only knowledge and right to do....judge a human spirit. We are not qualified, nor knowledgeable to do so. Leave it to him.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), September 02, 2001.

Im kinda Christian, I believe in the bible but well i aint a reader of it, and i couldnt quote much from it. The thing is If you hear stuff about the "devil" (satan and the likes) it was based on a druid God with horns, which actually stood for good luck in the Celtic world. And the church used this god against the people and added it to its religion. Therefore i find it hard to believe what is said by many church people and indeed most religions. If you look at Islam the religion is peaceful. If you look at jewish religion, you will see they believe they are the sons of god. But both these religions are going against what their books says and both sides are killing and it isnt just one side only. Both are fighting one another.. So maybe religion is mearly away of recognising a people and making a distinction upon what side ur on.. Maybe its a old version of politics, you hear of the politics in the story of Abraham and his journey`s across the middle east so many thousand of year ago.

Another point the "Infallible word of god"? So the Pope leads the church buit like the Infallibity law of the 1880`s set by the pope... lead the way for a new world. Indeed was it not the purges by the pope against helping the Jewish people during the 2nd world war? Infallibity is mearly a way of stating that they are incapable of taking critism or handling it in a humanitarian way. If we were real christians what does the book mean when it says "an eye for an eye" and then contradicts itself, when it talks of loving your enemies or something, I couldnt quote the book exactly so i wont but the bible itself is littered with contradictions and problems.

If things infringe upon ur rights what happens if what you says infringes upon anothers??? I am not picking a fight here mearly asking a question. For example if everyone has a right to freedom of faith then shouldnt it not come down to "Tolerance", and not whether it infringes upon me.

Anyway thats my 2 cents... God knows what religion i am... i think its a cross between everything and anything! lol!

-- Craig (Ruskie@absolutevodka.fsnet.co.uk), September 02, 2001.



Oh Ernest, what a beautiful post - thank you!

-- Bonnie (chilton@stateline-isp.com), September 02, 2001.

Ken, it for sure wasn't on A Village Commons. So far we have been spared any religious wars over there. Knock wood.

-- Sojourner (notime4@summer.spam), September 02, 2001.

Stephanie- I'd be interested to hear what you think of folks who trample other people's rights while asserting their own. I'm thinking that no one has a right to deprive others of such rights as clean air to breathe and pure water to drink, but its done everyday. How does one give both parties their rights?

-- debra in ks (windfish@toto.net), September 02, 2001.

I don't think it was on the Freedom Self Reliance forum either. It could have been on the Beyond the Sidewalks forum, but since that has to be joined and used with a password, I don't think so. perhaps you are referring to this thread- http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a- fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004Obn

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), September 02, 2001.

I think the thread Stephnie is referring to is under religion in the archives. After you get in the religion go to heathens,pagens,and non christian homesteaders. Roxanne

-- Roxanne (roxanne143@webtv.net), September 02, 2001.


Well, so much for extending a cooperative spirit! But, yes it was under the older threads. I clicked on 'new messages' and it came up.

As for clean air and water, I think it is everybody's responsibility to be good stewards. Those who abuse what the Creator has given us will ultimately lose it anyway. I draw the line however at putting the planet above human life. I don't believe that a tree is equal to a human, or a fish is equal to an entire town of people and their lively hoods.

I don't believe that values can be legislated. I don't believe that you can force a nation to do something without revolt or revolution. When our choices are taken away, there is nothing worth living for anyway.

-- Stephanie Nosacek (possumliving@go.com), September 02, 2001.


Wow! This has been great to read! I love knowing how people's specific beliefs/world views effect how they live, and I appreciate all of this sharing!

-- marcee king (thathope@mwt.net), September 02, 2001.

Stephanie, Your definition of a "fundamentalist" is incorrect. The media uses this term incorrectly to imply a group of people who are hateful wackos, but in Christianity a fundamentalist is simply a group or a person who believes that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. This title encompasses hugh amounts of people e.g. the Baptist denomination. If you believe their doctrine, then by definition you are a fundamentalist. Many other denominations also embrace the fundamental doctrines. The idea that a "fundie", as you call it, is full of hate is a general biased statement such as "All homesteaders chew tobacco." Don't let the media suck you into this trap.

-- Renee' Madden (RM6PACK@aol.com), September 03, 2001.

Craig,

Couldn't let your comment about Islam being a peaceful religion go unchallenged. Islam considers all non-beleivers to be "infidels". It is the DUTY of every Moslem to exterminate every infidel they can. Moslems say the best way to get to heaven is to be killed while killing an infidel. The newest Palestinian charter calls for the elimination of ALL Jews. I'm sorry but I cannot accept these things as peaceful, no matter how the religion is otherwise presented. In Egypt at present, a Christian can be executed for just being a Christian, with execution being the best way out in most circumstances. Does the Moslem Taliban in the Afghanistan region sound peaceful? What they do to their own women in the name of religion should make everyones' blood boil, but you hardly hear about it. The Moslems in Northern Chad are making slaves out of anybody who is not Moslem. Does this sound peaceful to you? These beleifs are what Moslems practice worldwide. They make all the bad things in America and the UK appear trivial by comparison. Well thats' my little bit of input.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), September 03, 2001.


Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend, do it in the name of heaven, youll be justified in the end , wont be any trumpets blowing come the judgement day, when one tin soldier rides away.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), September 03, 2001.

Ladies and Gentlemen there is one race on this planet; HUMAN, and it's a crying shame they can't agree to let each other live in peace.

I can ahrdly wait till an ailen race decides were just right for food and attacks the planet. Then maybe everybody will quit whinning and focus on something more important. Survival of all on Earth.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), September 03, 2001.


Yeah, the Pagan thread was definitely on CS, probably a year ago or more. Someone who was writing a book wanted to interview homesteading pagans.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), September 07, 2001.

Well, dear friends I am truly sorry that I posted such a controversial topic and then couldn't attend to the feedback. Got busy at work and trying to play catchup after a very tiring summer.

I read the posts and I do appreciate everybodies input. Reassures me that I am among some of the most peaceful people in the world. I think at least that we can all agree to disagree and leave it at that.

As for my definition of 'fundies', it came from membership class from a nondenominational pastor, whom I highly respect because of his great love for people. I had never heard of 'fundies' or 'fundamentalists' before that. Islams were listed as being one.

My thoughts on the 'infallible Word of God', the original texts (Hebrew, Chaldean and Greek) are pretty plain and not impossible to understand in context; it's the people who do the interpretations that are fallible and that includes people from all denominations as far as I've seen. I suppose that is why, if there were a choice of saying I don't belong to any denomination I would, but even nondenominational is now a denomination!! Go figure.

As long as there are human beings on the face of this earth there are going to be people who claim to believe the same things, yet disagree with one another on certain points, so I love you all regardless of what you believe and I mean that.

-- stephanie nosacek (possumliving@go.com), September 09, 2001.


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