I've been reading descriptions on Ebay auctions for Leicas and it seems that bodies with the L seal intact (ie. never been opened and serviced) are more desirable. Why is that?

I'd have thought that old cameras that've been serviced and/or had shutter speeds adjusted are better deals.

Although this might seem real obvious to Leicaphiles but humor and enlighten me, please. Thanks.

-- Fred Sun (redsky3@yahoo.com), August 23, 2001

Answers

In some cultures, a bride should be a virgin. Actually, I've been told that genuine Leitz service includes replacing the seal after service. No seal...you don't know who's been in there, or what they've done.

-- Phil Stiles (Stiles@metrocast.net), August 23, 2001.

Just had my M4 CLA'ed by Leica Denmark. Just plain wax, no L seal. According to Erwin Puts (I think) this tradition ended many years ago. I can understand this has some meaning to a collector, the closer to the original state the better.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), August 23, 2001.

Both my M3s were serviced by Odin (leica importer for Holland) and they stamp an O in the wax seal, I think there are several quality service points that stamp their name in it. Frederik

-- Frederik Boone (frederik.boone@harol.be), August 23, 2001.

It is only of interest to collectors. If the "L" seal is intact, it means the camera is "more" original than one without. The same thing applies with packing materials and import tags that 99.99% percent of people rightly threw away. If everyone had kept the silly stuff, it would be worthless!

Cheers,

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), August 23, 2001.

I guess I'm one of the .01%. I've still got the packing material and Import Certificates for all my Leica gear.

I guess it's perfectionism vs. pragmatism.

BTW, I don't baby my equipment but I don't abuse it either. That goes for whatever I own.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), August 23, 2001.

I own three Leica bodies and never knew there is a seal. Can anybody tell me where it is?

-- Haim Toeg (haim_toeg@bmc.com), August 23, 2001.

The seal is located at 12 o'clock on the bajonet.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), August 23, 2001.

I think the main reason to brag that the seal is still there, is that in the old days, a Leica could might be sent to someone who wasn't too careful about what was done inside. If the seal is still intact, at least we know that NO IDIOT was mucking around in there 40 years ago. I doubt any user of a vintage Leica camera would mind having the seal broken if a modern authorized repair person did it....

-- Steve Hoffman (shoffman2@socal.rr.com), August 23, 2001.

Apparently, authorised leica repairers were given a code number which they stamped on the new seal that was required after the original "L" seal was removed. This number showed which repairer had done the work and confirmed that the work was done by an authorised repairer.

I have seen several different numbers on various cameras (as well as no number). A Leica rep told me this years ago. I don't know whether it is still current.

-- wayne murphy (wayne.murphy@ publicworks.qld.gov.au), August 23, 2001.

what is the wax seal anyways? i've never seen it on new usa leicas...

-- tristan tom (tristan@tristantom.com), August 24, 2001.

M6's don't have one. It's a black wax covering the topmost retaining screw of the bayonet ring on older Leicas, like M2, M3, M4 (and I guess M5--I'm not sure. You can't get the screw out without breaking the seal. And you can't open the camera without taking that particular screw out.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), August 24, 2001.