Obviously, this question is only for those who discussed Y2k previously, but I've asked this question on Poole's forum [of Flint and Doc Paulie], and I'd be interested in learning how others were drawn into the discussion.

I'll start. I was involved in some remediation projects and frequented a technical forum wherein some others started discussing Y2k work. One of the folks felt that there might be enough interest to start a Y2k remediation forum and MSNBC accepted that thought [although labeled it a "Year 2000 Issues Forum." For MONTHS whe shared laughs and remediation information. We were totally incognizant of the DOOM factor being spread by Gary North, Hyatt, Yourdon, and others.

SLOWLY, the forum we'd established for remediation exchange turned into one frequented by Christians who thought the "end-times" were near, and others hawking fear of Y2k. A few [very few] of us stayed on the forum and tried to alleviate fears, but it became a lost cause after a time.

After several months of no internet access at all to this subject, I decided to check out TB2000. I'd already heard of its reputation in sending "pollies" packing. I saw Flint doing a solo [for the most] and decided to join in. Heck...remediation was over for me. Everyone I knew who had worked on it was now unemployed. It was an interesting "aside."

So, tell me how you first got involved [if you even did] in the Y2k adventure on the internet. Did you hear something that led you to venture to Gary North's site, or hear something that led you to venture to Yourdon's site? If you feared calamity, on what did you base that fear? If you didn't, on what did you base THAT feeling?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 09, 2001

Answers

I assure you that this wasn't a trick question. I'm actually curious about this.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 09, 2001.

Pure chance here Anita.

Came across a newsy article that talked the subject and mentioned Ed Yourdan. Quick search on my first internet capable computer revealed Ed's place and TB2000. March '99.

Found quite the gamut there but couldn't help but fall in love with those who seemed dedicated to helping others prepare. Perhaps my "earthquake" upbringing here in SoCal preordained my response to the possible I didn't understand because of the inevitible I do.

Will never forget your excellent advice on the need for variety in one's food stash.

Then came "Pollies"---w/ teeth. Can't imagine lining up any other way regardless of the outcome.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), August 09, 2001.

Anita:

I have used the Lusenet servers for years. What I do in what spare time I have is photography [a giant black hole for money]. Lusenet has always housed, an internationally used, bb on the subject.

I first heard about the date problem in the early 90’s at a seminar. When you work at a University you go to a collection of seminars. I hadn’t thought much about it. One day, I saw the site name, looked in, and found they were talking about the date problem. That was early on; before Diane or BD as I call it.

It was like crawling down a Hobbit hole. It was very entertaining and a trip through a fantasy world. I was there for the whole sequence of events. It is an experience that I will always remember. I got to see people who had ideas that I would never experience in real life [and which I would never accept]. From there, I learned about Csy2k and debunkers.

I never got much technical information from any of these boards. I got that from talking to people doing the technical work [I am computer dependent and needed to know these things]. I met a lot of people along the way. It was a great trip.

I am a logically based unit. As one who does a lot of contingency studies, I understood how those were being misinterpreted. Never said that much. After all Flint had already demonstrated that logical analysis was useless on the board. Besides people were so busy screaming, they didn’t listen anyway.

I learned a lot about people and a self-marginalized subgroup. I feel sorry for some of them. Still, they have the right to do what makes them happy or makes them feel important [no names please].

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 09, 2001.

Who has teeth in "cyberspace"?

Carlos must be drunk again.

-- (chomp@chomp.chomp), August 09, 2001.

Only a drunk would misunderstand "teeth".

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), August 09, 2001.

Only for you, Anita, would I even consider posting to a thread on Y2k. The question is intriguing, an opportunity to reminisce, so I'll bite. :)

First heard about the date problem back during the Gulf War. I was working at a community college in the computer dept. Wasn't into programming AT ALL. A course in COBOL left me dry and I much preferred desktop publishing on MAC. I'm a WYSIWYG kinda guy.

Anyway, talk was pretty serious prior to and during the Gulf War. One evening in the computer lab we were slow - no student or faculty traffic at all. So the dept. head brings up this date problem - something to talk about besides war and rumors of war. He explained it pretty well from what I remember. I filed it deep in my memory bank.

Cut to spring 1998. Gary North is on Art Bell's radio show. I hear this talk about a date problem and there's this click. Retreival from my memory bank. So I decided to do research on the internet to find out IF this date problem had any 'teeth' (there ya go Carlos).

In my rambling search I came across Yourdon's site and TB2k forum that summer. Because I had zero programming experience I did not participate much on the forum. Met quite a few good people IRL. I left the forum when the rancor became too much for me to stomach (ok, months after it became too much) and my estimates for impact had pretty much shriveled.

Flint, Hoff, Anita and Ken (among a handful of quality posters) contributed a great deal to my getting a grasp on the date problem and the reaction to it by the more exhuberant posters; and they served to show the majority of posters at TB2k to be truly bad characters in comparison with themselves. Much appreciated, youse guys (and gal).

-- Rich (living_in_interesting_times@hotmail.com), August 09, 2001.

Interesting responses so far. Carlos, you were there only a few months before I. Z: I was familiar with Phil's photography work. It DOES seem logical to check out Lusenet after perusing his photography stuff. Rich: I remember you well warning me that I must have thick skin. I don't consider my thin particularly thick, but many of the posters I met on the MSNBC forum could endure MUCH abuse from new posters. However, they considered themselves "run off" of TB2000. They were [by no means] Pollies With Teeth, either. They were simply folks looking for answers, which I think a lot of folks on TB2000 were.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 09, 2001.

I found the TB2000 forum in the Fall of 1998. For me it was commerce related in the beginning and turned into much, much more. Some of the folks here know the story and one day I should do a ‘tell all’ on my activities within the Y2K ‘business community’. Y2K was all about money, plain and simple!!

-- So (cr@t.es), August 10, 2001.

I think it was the summer (maybe fall) of '98 for me. Was in the Y2K PMO at the time and the boss (who was a senior exec and thought Eddy was on to something) pointed me in this direction. She went all out on the survival stuff and has since had a garage sale! It was actually part of my job to monitor the old forum.

For some strange reason, I just can't seem to leave.......

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 10, 2001.

My interest came with modest beginnings. Family members asked my advice. This lead to web-based searches and finding the odd outposts of Y2K chatter. My interest increased as my work responsibilities required analysis of Y2K risks. This lead to rather frequent forays into the subject.

My analysis of the subject lead me the correct conclusion, to wit, the Y2K problem presented little risk aside from creating a modest economic fallout. Given the rather hyperbolic economy, I thought even minor disruptions might accelerate the inevitable downturn in the business cycle. Despite the delusions of Paula Gordon, the impact of Y2K was nearly undetectable.

What maintained my interest was the ferocity of the debate and the eccentricity of the characters. Living the life of a dead Spanish philosopher, I have little chance to encounter fringe lunatics, survivalists, Christian reconstructionists, anarchists, Constitutitionalists, tax protestors, etc. What a rich tapestry of human misunderstanding, paranoia, egocentricism, anger and misdirected intellect.

There were also kind, gentle people with legitimate fears. We live in a society complex beyond the complete understanding of any single person. On its surface, Y2K presented a rather reasonable concern. What happens if the technology we depend on fails us? For most citizens, the operation of technology is as mysterious as magic. After all, how many of us can really explain how a microchip is constructed and works? I think some of the "pollyannas" remained to assist the decent people who were simply confused by a complex problem... and to defang the vocal opposition.

All's well that ends well.

-- Jose Ortega y Gasset (j_ortega_y_gasset@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

Soc: There's no time like the present...for that "tell all" thing.

Deano: So there WAS a polly on the forum who was being "renumerated." Ray followed me around for so long asking that question that I feared for his health when he stopped.

Jose: I agree that there were many kind, gentle people on the forum simply looking for information. Perhaps one of the things that surprised me most was the emotionalism involved in the topic.

I'd like to ask another question, if I may. I'd already mentioned that the first folks *I* noticed getting excited about Y2k as a problem that wouldn't/couldn't be solved were Christians. Gary North, Chuck Missler, McElvaney [sp?], Pat Robertson and others in one form or another of Christian "outreach" programs [radio, TV, newsletters, etc.] were, apparently, "preaching" fear of Y2k. Were any of you, or do you know anyone who learned of Y2k through these Christian sources?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

Anita,

Toejam Ray?? This guy actually thought I was being paid by the banking industry to monitor the old forum. I still laugh at that thought!!! He's probably one of the most paranoid individuals I've ever come across. He and that jacksprat dude were a laugh a minute!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 10, 2001.

I found it the summer of 1999, when I was involved with a local group in our area. Analysis of in terms of Y2k vulnerability revealed a lot of vagueness and lack of preparation on the part of many local systems for many aspects of dealing with _any_ kind of protracted emergency. To the best of my knowledge, the gaps pointed out were never rectified, and we still remain vulnerable on a group and individual basis.

Someone at the Library of Congress wants to archive Y2k sites for the record, so if you know anyone who has one up, suggest to them that they don't retire it yet. I don't have the time to follow that lead yet, but when I do I'll get word out.

I'll eventually modify mine and update it as a resource for both emergency preparedness and self-sufficient living.

-- Firemouse (doomerette@cartons.oftp), August 10, 2001.

Anita:

So called Christians.

If you are talking about the ones from Ed's board, they are mostly here [at least the ones still posting]:

RAL

Except for someone named Abbey. Of course, my opinion is that she is just putting-on everyone at TB2000. :)

Best Wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 10, 2001.

By-the-by Anita:

You said:

I don't consider my thin particularly thick,

We could start a whole new eastern philosophy on that statement alone. *<)))

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 10, 2001.

Deano: Ray and I never discussed his toes.

Z: I'm not interesting in WHERE the Christians are. I'd heard both Buddy and Charlie mention the Christian media and wondered how many folks were introduced to the subject via that media. Regarding the skin thing, I don't GI. Speaking of GI and DGI, do you remember the other acronyms used in [what I considered to be] mysterious ways? It took me forever to learn that CDC didn't mean Center Disease Control anymore.

Firemouse: You mentioned WHEN you started, but you never really mentioned HOW you came to even THINK about Y2k as a topic.

Back to Carlos: I DID learn how to make some pretty interesting dishes from reading TB2000. I'd never purchased a box of instant mashed potato flakes in my life. I don't LIKE instant mashed potatos. I like REAL potatos, peeled and mashed. I now have tried and true recipes for using those flakes [mixed with several other ingredients] to coat pork chops, fish, baked tomatos, etc. I LOVE it for that purpose. It seals in ALL the juices without adding a crunchy shell that [IMO] distracts from the flavor of the meat/fish. I'd also had a recipe for something like 15 years entitled "frosted meatloaf", which calls for mashed potatos being placed atop the meatloaf at a certain stage of the baking process. I whipped up a batch of those instant guys and couldn't tell the difference.

A friend gave me an eggplant from his garden. I've never eaten an eggplant and have NO idea how to cook it. I look at it and can only think of Bonobos.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

Anita:

It wasn't the skin thing but the thin thing.

A million uses for egg plant. The easiest. My stove has a grill with rocks and stuff. Brush on some good olive oil and sprinkle with cracked pepper and grill it. Along with some grilled fresh pineapple slices, it is good. Unless you have the small asian varieties. They are best cubed and stir fried.

Tonight I am making stir fried beef. Fresh radishes, daikon, straw mushrooms, water chestnuts, radiccio, egg plant snow peas. Served over rice with a soy sauce and wasabi mixture.

Best Wishes,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 10, 2001.

Z, you've driven me out of my mind with desire. Marry me. I'll work, you cook.

-- helen (drooling@every.time.he.posts), August 10, 2001.

Z, I promise I'll NEVER SPEAK except to ask for seconds and maybe inquire about dessert.

-- helen (best@offer.ok), August 10, 2001.

Z, the KOS fling was just for fun and mud. I never asked him to marry me. Don't hold it against me.

-- helen (please@oh.please), August 10, 2001.

Z? Z...?

-- helen (food@good.food), August 10, 2001.

Helen: Control your desire [temporarily] and tell me how you came to be involved in Y2k discussions. Where/when/how did you learn of the topic?

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

I think Z's already married

Of course, that doesn't stop some of us

-- (wouldn't you@like to. know), August 10, 2001.

Sorry sorry sorry...low blood sugar. S'ok now. Munching home grown tomato grown with mule poop under mulch. I forgot -- THIS is why we live here -- home grown tomato, no salt, warm from garden.

Uh...Z...it's embarrassing obvious that I have "issues". While some women want a man who provides a comfortable home, and others need a man to provide a certain social status, and still others want a simple spanking, I myself have a weakness for a man who cooks. The thought of man grilling a fillet ... well, anyway, I apologize. Please do not allow my gaffe to deprive the others of your fabulous menus.

Anita, I saw your post yesterday and couldn't remember how I got started with y2k. I think it was because my cellar leaked badly and I went looking for websites with cheapo repair advice. And then I found you guys and couldn't let go. Also, I still have a cellar leak and would appreciate some cheapo repair advice that doesn't involve moi having to deal with the family of snakes who moved in there this summer.

-- helen (tomato@red.face), August 10, 2001.

So it's okay for you to proposition Z, but Deano can't ask for pictures of some woman's thing? What do the goats think about this?

-- (baa@baa.baa), August 10, 2001.

By the way, you should be able to take care of that cellar leak with a few pounds of rice. Just smush it in there and it should block it right up. It's what the goats would do.

-- (baa@baa.baa), August 10, 2001.

Anita,

Ray and I didn't discuss his toes either. The 'toejam' was a takeoff on his 'totacc.com' (or something like that) in his handle. I believe CPR started the toejam thing. Seemed to fit ol' Ray perfectly from what I could tell.

baa,

Somehow, this will be different.......watch'n'see.......;-)

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 10, 2001.

I didn't proposition Z. I asked him to marry me. Sight unseen even. And if I forgot we were both already married, well...the lovely addition of wasabi sent me over the edge. Culinary deprivation is a terrible thing. That reminds me that we could have bbq goat marinated in pineapple juice tomorrow...

-- helen (pass@the.salt), August 10, 2001.

...goat over rice ... over a half ton of rice...

Deano, I went crazy. YOU were in your normal mind. Totally different. Totally.

-- helen (sauce@for.the.goose), August 10, 2001.

See what I mean???? ;-)

I love you helen......

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 10, 2001.

Things are moving out of my league now. I understand packaged instant mashed potato flakes, but WTH is wasabie? It sounds American- Indian in nature...like kimosabie. Z's probably got one of those pepper grinders, too, like they use in the fancy restaurants.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 10, 2001.

Anita:

Wasabi is commonly called Japanese horseradish. I believe it is a different plant, altogether. You can buy it [at least where I live] as a prepared paste or as a powder [which you can make into a paste]. If you haven't used it you should. I think that the famous "Cory" even recommends it. Along with fresh ginger and carribean red peppers, it is one of the required tastes.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 10, 2001.

Japanese....green and HOT!

-- cool (off@my.mouth), August 10, 2001.

Anita,

I can answer both of your questions in one sitting.

I had read Gary North's Remnant Review back in 97 or 98, as mentioned at my Web site, then forgot about Y2K.

When I moved here to B'ham, the fundie/conservative Christian community was *BIG* on Y2K doom. I mean, BIG BIG. Meetings, people on the radio every day warning people To Prepare, you name it. TEOTWAWKI was at hand and if you didn't believe it, just ask 'em.

So, I developed a little Web page about control systems to address some of the egregious errors that I'd heard; I put it on BellSouth, yadda yadda (I've said all this before, no need to repeat it).

Anyway. CPR saw my site and sent me an email that said, "COME JOIN US AT BIFFY." I did. Prior to that time, I don't think I had ever seen a Y2K forum. So ... *MY* first experience was also with a (generally-speaking) "polly" or "debunking" forum.

I had been there a day or two when someone posted something about Bruce Beach's secondary clocks; a debate was raging at TB2000, so I scooted over there and had a look. I decided to respond and my very first words on that forum were (IIRC), "heaven help us, technical issues are now being decided by popular vote." :)

Carlos,

Sure, there were pollies who "chomped." But let's keep our perspective here: there also plenty of doomers who "chomped" as well, and I've got the bite marks to prove it[g]. People like Andy and "a@a.a" gave people like me no END of grief.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), August 10, 2001.

I love you too, Deano. When I crawled home wearily from work in the middle of the night a little while ago, I saw that my man had cooked some kind of shrimp delight and left me two servings all to myself. I am blessed with a man who understands my needs...and deeply sorry that I ever let my eye roam over another man's menu...

-- helen (shrimp@mmm.yummy), August 11, 2001.

After reading many of the threads here, especially the last one by Jonathan, all I can say is,"What a dope (dupe) I was!"

I am nobody of significance, or a name or profile to remember from days past leading up to January 01, 2000. I am one of the many "simple folks" who lurked and lurked, and drank the poison of the doomers rather than the "those in the know."

Let me tell you how I came to be drawn into the fear-aspect of Y2K.

In '98 I was relatively new to the Internet world. I am an older gentleman who learned AutoCad because if I hadn't I would have lost my job. This was my introduction to the computer world, namely, CAD.

So in '98 I purchased my first home computer and started my adventures in cyberspace. Somewhere in this cyberspace, where now, I cannot remember, I read about an issue called Y2K. I did a little research and found out that this referred to the Year 2000, and something in computers called a roll-over date problem. Hmmmmm, I said to self, I almost lost my job because of the introduction of computers into my work place. Now those same computers might fail, and our society that has become so reliant on them, may be pulled down into oblivion.

So one early morning in the spring of '98, about 3:00 AM, I was browsing on the Internet, and came across a chat room, something I'd heard about but never (and still don't frequent). In this chat room I found a room where folks were chatting about computers. Hesitantly, I entered, and asked a question. I asked, "Is there anything to this issue about Y2K and computer breakdown?" A fella from Hawaii came on and wrote that, in his opinion, yes there is a real big problem, and that if I was interested I should go visit the Gary North web site.

Well, the rest is history. I bought into the scenario being painted at the G. North site, and somewhere or somehow also found the TB2000 forum. I didn't listen to the "sane" side, those who were labeled as the "polly."

Instead, I started to influence my wife, family memebers, and a few neighbors. And we, being city people, began to prepare...spending thousands of dollars on food and supplies. We eventually sold our home, moved to a small, rural town, and hunkered down, expecting the worst.

We have since moved from that rural town back to a city (though not so populated as the one where we lived prior to Y2K). We kept the rural house, rent it out, and will use it someday (soon, I hope) for our vacation home.

A lot of lessons I learned I still value- lessons about food and water, and preparedness for those "whatever" situations.

But the one lesson I wish I never had had to go through, finding out that within me I am prone to be the gullible type, and that I listened only to one side, the doomers.

Joseph

BTW I am still mostly a lurker, and visit Unk's Wild West only ocassionally. This morning being one of those ocassions when I pass through here.

-- Joseph (Here@home.com), August 11, 2001.

Those were great stories, Jonathan, and Joseph.

Helen: I much prefer a mate that cleans, and I have one who does. He cooks, too, but I like my cooking better than his. [He cooks "goofy" stuff, like Z does.] BTW, Z, I didn't even notice I'd typed thininstead of skin until a reread today and FINALLY GI.

About those snakes, Helen, I have a cousin who lives in La Luz, NM. His wife "rescues" snakes that people fear. She runs a Herpetology Simplified show at the local zoo. I forgot where you live, but if your location is too far from theirs, I'm sure they could put you in contact with someone who would come out and remove the snakes.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 11, 2001.

Anita, do you know someone who will remove the rice AND the snakes?

I never felt like I was part of a religion over y2k. I didn't move on to other fears. Well, ok, the snakes, but you know what I mean. I don't think snakes are going to take over the farm. The goats would never allow that.

Come to think of it, I'm enslaved by goats due to y2k. We got them to be lawnmowers when the gasoline ran out...

-- helen (living@the.lie.of.y2k), August 11, 2001.

Well Anita, since it's YOU asking...

I first became aware of the Y2K issue when nostalgically browsing a Portland TV station's web site (as by then I was in Wisconsin). I saw a TINY little blurb about it, and clicked on the link. They had a series of articles on it, and two sets of links; one for "pollies" and one for "Doomers™". I clicked on every link in both sets, and read every site.

One of the Doomer sites was Scary Gary, and another was Y2K-Chaos. After reading those two sites, I did a Yahoo search, and found the MSNBC board, where you and others (Julie in particular) hung out. We began a series of conversations (as you remember). I was a doomer- leaning fence-sitter initially, a position that remained fairly constant throughout the period. (I have to thank you here for keeping me from "going over the edge" into Doomerland.)

I had never heard of TB2K (ironic, isn't it?), until you told me and gave me the addy. I surfed over there from time to time. My real "Y2K home" was the Hyatt board. (No, I never bought anything from him.) I became fascinated by the personalities (and the CONFLICTS) surrounding what I felt was a pretty straightforward issue. (My point, as you well know, was always "It's life insurance. Better to prepare if needed than NOT to.")

I kept a pretty low profile on the boards through most of the period leading up to the rollover. As a computer consultant, I began making inquiries of friends of mine in the business around the U.S. The information I got back was almost uniformly bad news (this was in the fall of 1998). Because of that, I began leaning more toward the Doomer camp. I listened to both sides, but put the most faith in my personal acquaintances.

By the time the information became more positive in mid-1999, I'd already completed all my preps. (what they hey, I could always use all that "stuff".)

I only became "controversial" when that "quickie baby adoption" thread was posted. I read that thread with jaw-dropping disbelief. How could someone DO that? So of course, my wife and I came up with the "plan" to take the mom/baby in until the rollover blew past, so that no adoption would be necessary or attempted. (Of course, for this I received a double ration of sh*t, which p*ssed me off to the point where I told those people to f**k off. That action made me an instant demon in the eyes of the more, um, "zealous" crowd.)

I have stayed around these boards because of the personalities, and friendships that I developed during that time. (That too, is why I kept TB2K alive after the Cascadians had to close it. Those folks were - and are - my friends, as I consider YOU as well.)

Thanks Anita, for keeping me on the sane side of the tracks, and for always being willing to lend an ear. I'll always remember you for that...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), August 12, 2001.

I love you, Dennis.

-- helen (kiss@mom.and.baby.for.me), August 12, 2001.

I love you too Dennis. I was right there 'at home' with you on Hyatt's board. I remember how often you pushed what little free speech there was at that board and only at the threat of being banned did you back down. I hope you remember how you felt at Hyatt's board whenever you are tempted to ban someone from your board today. I was 'warned' a number of times myself although never to the degree you were. You did seem quite the doomer.

I love books and while grocery shopping I picked up one about a year 2000 computer problem. From there I purchased two of Hyatt's books. Month's later, with my divorce settlement, I purchased my computer. The intent was to brush up on my computer skills to obtain a better paying job. This was around August of 99.

Once on line the first place I visited was Hyatt's site. I was truly amazed by the people I found there. Dennis was one who stood out but also there was another called River, a moderator who ruled with an iron fist.

Anyhow, I entered the world of Y2K doom late and decided I didn't have much time. I proceeded to spend the settlement simply because I couldn't be sure what would happen. I have suffered from it financially ever since.

I did learn something important from this experience. I learned how very easily a meme could parasitize my brain. That is something I have never considered for myself.

How did I let myself get involved in such a thing? How could I be so irresponsible?

First I got involved because that is my nature. IMO, it was something to a least consider. I still don't think preps are irresponsible, at least not as irresponsible as doing nothing, especially where children are concerned. What I was irresponsible about was the amount of spending I did. I simply could not afford it.

Next question was then - how did it happen? The answer was easy. I let myself be cut off from information. I stayed at a board where I knew only one view was allowed. I thought it enough to understand it was only one view. If my children might suffer what kind of suffering might that be? No food? Buy extra. No water? Buy extra. No heat? No lights? No medicine? Buy, buy, buy.

I stayed with the board for awhile after the roll-over and watched them count plane and train wrecks. One night I followed a link to TB2K. I had visited a few times between Aug 99 and the roll-over but usually left pretty quickly because of the fighting and vulgar language. (and here I am at Unk's Wild West - go figure)

This particular night I found a thread in which Flint and Eve were discussing the very things I was so deeply questioning. For me it truly was a 'gift' from the universe. But something else was happening that night. TB2K was being moved and they had banned Flint, and a number of others including Jonathan. Just when I had 'found' them and needed to hear what they had to say.

I jumped right in and posted a number of times against the bannings. The little exposure I had to TB2K led me to believe that it was a free-for-all so I posted under different names not realizing what a raw nerve I had struck. Within minutes my ISP address was posted for all to see.

I stayed up that entire night as different boards were set up so that those against the bannings would have a place to go. The universe was introducing me to people one by one who felt as I felt. As each person decided to stand against the bannings I came to know a group of people who I am still proud to call my friends today.

And I so miss Gilda.

-- Debra (Thisis@it.com), August 12, 2001.

Anita,

Usually I don't post here, just browse, but this your thread rang a bell, so to speak...

I first heard of Y2K back in late '98, but thought it was of little threat, that "the government" wouldn't let it get out of hand. (Which seems to be the case now too.) I soon forgot about it.

The 2nd time I heard about it was in July(?) 1999, when one of my co- workers spoke about being in a state commission planning for manual work-arounds. We also started running tests on our software and programs in my department at work and found some glitches. I then really became concerned because of my family's home transcription business - I was afraid that we could experience a lot of down time, which we couldn't afford financially. I knew nothing about Y2K, so I did a search on the web for info. I ended up on a Yahoo chatroom and then was introduced to MSN, where I met you.

From MSN, I was introduced to TB2K and "Debunkers"...

-- Deb Mc. (not@this.time.pls), August 12, 2001.

Anita,

Summer of 1998. The Wired magazine article gave the web sites, but was not too convincing. However my best source for programming advice turned out to be stockpiling so I started looking into it. I remembered the week without power after hurricane Andrew. Early 1999 there were two days without power from the ice storm and I had to keep the iguana inside my sweater so he didn't get too cold. (Now he is too big for that.) I have a pessimistic bent. I knew just enough about Kalman filters to see how an automatic pilot program could be written to crash an airplane due to a Y2K error. I'd read about the Ariane rocket that had to be blown up because of a division by zero error and the subsequent analysis that more than half of the cases where overflow could occur had no routine to deal with it for these European rockets. Repairs at work were scheduled for Fall of 1999; the local government planned to fix on failure. As it turned out my bank spent 3% of their assets on Y2K remediation and is no longer around; they got eaten by a bigger, nasty bank. No doubt I overreacted.

Jonathan,

If you want to recommend a site to read about Cassini, I'd be interested. I'm normally a space enthusiast, but I also have Michio Kaku's book on gauge theory so he had credibility with me and he was on the other side.

dandelion

-- dandelion (golden@pleurisy.plant), August 13, 2001.

GREAT stories! Maybe we should have a contest for the best story and the winner could take that rice off Helen's hands? [I'd suggest it as the boobie prize for the WORST story, but I'm afraid I might win that one.] My personal preference for that rice, Helen, would be to find a little plot of space on that farm, dig a deep hole, and BURY it. I'd even say a few words in "eulogy"...something like "Never liked rice, don't know why I bought THIS rice, and maybe someday some poor soul will uncover it and actually find a use for it. AMEN." You could even carve date of purchase and date of burial into a rock and put it on top.

I forgot to thank Stephen Poole for his information on the Christian Media. [You know I count on you for this stuff, Stephen.]

Julie's doing well, Dennis. Jeez...the woman remembered my birthday this year. I haven't written to her in a few months, but I get updates from some local friends who purchased a house in Taos. Bill teaches Anthropology here at UTA and he and his wife have been a warm addition to the lives of Julie and her children and vice-versa. Julie shares fresh vegetables from their garden with my friends and my friends share knowledge of the world with them. Bill and his wife are going to China this fall on one of those exchange teacher programs or something. I'm sure they'll have many evenings of exciting and educational experiences to relate on their return [not to mention the artifacts.] They pay Julie and Ben to take care of the house when they're away.

I miss Gilda also, Debra. Maybe Flint can E-mail her and beg her to come back. Last I heard, he was her designated contact.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 13, 2001.

Hey Anita and all...

I had just finished a very loud, laughter-filled, exhausting monster- squirt-gun war with my kids on the grounds of a cottage we were staying at near the Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes in northern Michigan in July, 1998. I mean it was so raucus that we were asked not to come back. I really hadn’t realized how much it had affected others until afterwards or I really would have been much more sensitive.

No, REALLY. :)

Anyway, I walked into the cottage absolutely drenched, picked up a USA Today off the coffee table that we’d bought that morning and there was a front page article showing people prepping, moving away, digging shelters, etc. for Y2K. I’d known about it before from the Newsweek article in ’97 but I’d just assumed people were taking care of the problem. After all, they had years -- right?

Well, something happened to me right then – that was my “moment”. I felt kind of a burning flush come over me and proceeded to very coolly and calmly freak out. I copied down the websites, one of which was Gary North’s (I believe), and logged on as soon as I could get my hands on a keyboard back home. I focused on North's site, but then went all over the net searching for stuff on this, quickly discovered the complexity of the whole thing, realized I didn’t have enough time to figure it all out, and so decided to divide my time between learning more about the problem, cramming survival skills and doing other prepping.

I'd heard about the existence of a Time Bomb forum early on but I recall trying to log on through Ed Yourdon’s personal site – for some reason I didn’t know about the LUSENET forum until spring '99 or so. And for some reason my computer kept crashing whenever I’d log on to Ed’s site. I started posting round about August '99.

So much more to tell, but I thought I’d throw something out there for starters.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), August 13, 2001.

I became aware of the Y2K problem in early 98, found Yourdon's site, and decided to stick around to convince everyone that it was not going to be that big of a deal.

-- Uncle Deedah (bizzaro@world.no.not.really), August 13, 2001.

Liar! ;)

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), August 13, 2001.

Please, I prefer to think of it as slight embellishment.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 13, 2001.

Y2K

-- spider (spider@web.com), August 13, 2001.

On a scale of 1-10 Ill hazard a WAG of 6.5, sliding down that slippery slope leading to who knows where. Gut says bad coming. I have always been a live for today, have fun party animal, but this has changed my tune, Im glad I lived it up while things were good.

Next stop-uncertainty. All aboard!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 23, 1998.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000ASa

-- archiver (archiver@archiverrr.arc), August 13, 2001.

Z1X4Y7 You are right,. Most people have left TB2K because of that freak Abbey. We are sick of her wild posts that are all rumor with no backing. Most of us have started up another private password protected forum where she is not invited. When you are trying to understand the news and post info her tinfoil wakko posts are quite annoying. We have now over 200 members and growing fast. Her and the other wakkos can keep tb2k we are quite happy. Want to join us? mail mikesampson@interdev.com and I will mail you back a password and an address. Abbey alone, is the reason TB2K is dying.

-- us (us@us.com), August 14, 2001.

Did Abbey post on Ed Yourdon's original TB2000, and if she did, what name did she post under? Seems like there's been several off-shoots of off-shoots. I pop in here every once in a while, but I haven't really kept up with who is who.

-- curious (curious@curious.cur), August 14, 2001.

US: You should speak for yourself and not for everyone. Abby's posts are informative and are backed up with links.

If you have gone to another board, good riddance. What are you ......a mason and someone stepped on your anonymous toes???hhhmmmmm???? COWARD....

-- Marg (Suck@abigone.com), August 14, 2001.

I hadn't thought to open this thread as the question seemed irrelevant (sorry Anita) and because the whole experience embarrasses me but there have been so many responses that I'll add mine.

In 1998 I was vaguely aware of the y2k issue. Ho hum. Then in Dec 98, I was channel-surfing and flipped by a fundie station. Some polyester/bighair guy was interviewing another polyester/bighair guy about y2k. The interviewee was schlepping a book. I didn't buy the book but I did listen to the pitch. It seemed possible. I couldn't rule it out.

It weighed on my mind. That can happen when you are alone too much. If I had still been employed, I'm sure that I would have been reassured by the techie types where I worked.

What got to me was the inevitability of the date. It was only a year away. I figured I should get humping. I did not feel I had the time to research this complex issue. And there were other people that I wanted to be able to help if TEOTWAWKI (remember that?) occurred. These people were totally unprepared and quite vulnerable.

I did an Internet search for local activities. Almost nothing. My pastor said he had discussed it with some IT types in the congregation (United Methodist) and he was convinced it was not an issue. I talked by phone to the local guy identified on the Net. He was some kind of technician, and he was very concerned. He sent me a bunch of links. They ran the gamut from Gary North type sources to New Age to Communitarian (Utne Reader, Napa Valley, Paloma O'Reilly) to "technical" (Rollie Martin, Cory).

Sure, it was immediately obvious that there was a contradiction between those who were selling "preps" and the notion of TEOTWAWKI. Still, what if there was an intermediate situation?

About June 1999 I stumbled on TB2K and got hooked on the dynamics of the place. Thru TB2K I also found Biffy, Debunkies and Poole's. Maybe there had been intelligent discussion at Debunkies before I got there but by mid-1999 it was mostly vicious snarling by Mr Polly and the ubiquitous CPR. Stephen, your site was the most reassuring, but it was never quite enough to soothe this worry-wort.

As 1999 wore on, the lack of general public concern nearly, but not quite, convinced me that there would be no real problem.

I miss the heady brew that was the TB2K forum in 1999. I never even saw it in 1998. I hope it survives as a general-purpose forum.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), August 14, 2001.

BTW, I recently got a bad cholesterol report so I'm on a low fat diet. I have all these cans of tuna from 1999. Do you think this stuff is safe to eat?

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), August 14, 2001.

It's good for at least 3 years, Lars. You're safe.

-- Pammy (pamela_sue57@hotmail.com), August 14, 2001.

The vBulletin software at TB2K allows the individual member to add a person to their "ignore" list. From that moment on, NO POSTS made by that person will EVER be seen by the member. No responses in threads, no nothing. Nada. Zip. Gonzo.

Anyone that thinks Abby is over the top can erase her as if she were never there.

So.... where's the beef?

-- Dennis Olson (djolson@pressenter.com), August 14, 2001.

I don't know Pammy, it could take 2 years to eat it all.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), August 14, 2001.

Lars, I'm still eating tuna from not only 1999 but I think there's some stuff from '98 that got in there that I down once in a while too, and I'm still around. Tell you what -- as long as I'm posting here you'll know your tuna's probably ok. Just don't get jumpy from my periodic absences, all right?

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), August 14, 2001.

Lars:

My problem is the opposite. I got my first bad cholesterol report in 1994. It is so low that is isn't good [goes with very low blood pressure and low temperature; a genetic thing].

The doctor told me to go home and eat pork fat deep-fried in lard. I have tried, but, it hasn't worked. My total cholesterol is still under 70. Have to learn to live with it. I have this problem that I like fruit, vegetables, fish and grains.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 14, 2001.

Oops, Lars, my post assumed you'd already started eating the tuna. I suppose you COULD get jumpy if I'd been off for a good while and you thought *I* might have died from Bad Tuna (wasn't that the name of a rock band, btw?); but my post came off kinda egotistical -- like I'd swagger back in, dontcha know, with that overconfident, loud, obnoxious DJ-type-voice, with my arms up, palms out, "Hey, folks -- I'm back -- hope y'all didn't get too jumpy while I was gone. If you were...well, you can calm down now. Because I'm back. Yep, I'm back now."

(stony silence)

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), August 14, 2001.

Marg states:

“Abby's posts are informative and are backed up with links.”

Well what the hell, that’s good enough for me! OK Marg, you can return to your ‘night shift’ job at the truck stop.

-- Suck (this@big.one), August 14, 2001.

Dear Suck, I'll save the tea bag strings from work so when you find someone willing, you'll be able to locate "it" by pulling the string.

-- Marg (i'dhave@tofinditfirst.com), August 14, 2001.

The vBulletin software at TB2K allows the individual member to add a person to their "ignore" list. From that moment on, NO POSTS made by that person will EVER be seen by the member. No responses in threads, no nothing. Nada. Zip. Gonzo. Anyone that thinks Abby is over the top can erase her as if she were never there.

So.... where's the beef?

-- Dennis Olson (djolson@pressenter.com), August 14, 2001

So how do you do this? I've searched and searched on the TB2000 and couldn't find the delete button. Please provide instructions Dennis.

-- delete me (deleteme@delete.delete), August 14, 2001.

It's in the USER CP area. There, you have a "buddy list" and an "ignore list". Add somone to the ignore list and they vanish without a trace. No problem.

-- Dennis Olson (djolson@pressenter.com), August 14, 2001.

The potential Y2K problem was first brought to my attention by Ed Yardenii, and I'm surprised he has never (to my knowledge) been mentioned here or on TimeBomb2000. He more than anyone else singlehandedly brought the issue to the public's attention, and more importantly to the attention of business and government, who responded by devoting a great deal of time and expense to preparation. I expected a few accounting error's and some minor disruption of general commerce, but I already had a fifty gallon barrel of drinking water as part of my normal earthquake preparations (I live in Southern California), and we usually have about a month's supply of canned goods on hand, a means of self defense, and paper receipts for my bank accounts, etc., so I wasn't much concerned.

Besides, I had my own problems with Y2K at work. Seems all the publicity had put the fear of Beelzebub into the bean counters where I work and they had established a Y2K readiness program. I spent literally months convincing them that a single board embedded computer system I was working on that used an 8-bit 8051 microprocessor with it's program code in EEPROM and 32K bytes of RAM with no internal clock (other than a periodic timer interrupt), and no storage media of any kind (no Hard Drive, etc), and no operating system at all (except for the stand alone code I had written for it myself) would not be able to run their Microsoft Windows Y2K readiness test. For one thing, there was no place to even insert the floppy disk the test resided on, because the computer board did not have a floppy drive. Now you would think that any semi-conscious hibernating reptile would be able to understand that their Windows OS test would be inappropriate to such a special purpose system - but no, it was company policy and there were to be no exceptions! I wish I could publish some of the memos that went back and forth - it was hilarious. LOL. Finally someone in upper management got involved and got a waiver, but it was fun while it lasted.

As for TimeBomb2000, I didn't hear about it until about mid-way through the year 2000. It was referenced on some other web page I ran across, and I started visiting it just because of all the outrageous posts - it was a far cry from most of the dull websites and forums I was used to. I viewed it as sort of an extra strength "Rumor Mill News", but one that I could participate in. Since then, I've stayed with it because many of the members are out there scouring all news sources imaginable, and I will usually hear about breaking news at TB2K before seeing it on any regular "reputable" news site. TB2K is sort of a condensation of everything unusual or out of the ordinary. Yes, much of it is pure BS and the religious fanatics are always there proselytizing, but I'm willing to ignore such things for the unusual articles and attitudes that can be found there and no where else that I'm aware of. I avoid the Greenspun forum because of all the vulgarity, hatred, and vindictiveness which is absent for the most part at TB2K. Surely there isn't anyone alive who seriously thinks they should believe everything posted there. It's rather like having a huge buffet to choose from - you take what you like and leave the rest.

And speaking of huge menus, Abby contributes quite a lot to that menu and I appreciate her zeal in posting a large variety of all sorts of things. Sure, some of it is so off the charts that I skip past it, but practically everything she posts is entertaining at the very least. The forum would be much more lively if others had the energy and enthusiasm that Abby has to go out and find wild and weird, and even sometimes important and newsworthy material to post. She has my admiration and respect, even if I disagree with her on some things.

One thing I like about TB2K, and something that almost everyone there has in common is a deep mistrust of our so called "government" - a feeling that I also share. One last point, and perhaps the most important aspect of TB2K for me, is that I believe almost all the regulars there are honest, respectable, people that I would be willing to trust almost implicitly with my money or even my life if necessary, even though I know none of them personally and don't always agree with their views.

-- Ron

-- Ron Dotson (rkba_4all@yahoo.com), August 15, 2001.

I hadn't thought to open this thread as the question seemed irrelevant

I thought it about irrelevant as asking my mom, "How did you and dad meet?" Overall, the folks who began discussing Y2k are STILL discussing everything else under the sun [and some things BEYOND the sun.] I'm reminded of that movie where the actor was making a mountain out of his mashed potatos and the French guy said [at the end] "All these people, from all walks of life, were DRIVEN to come here. Why?"

-- Anita (Anita_s3@hotmail.com), August 15, 2001.

BTW, Lars, Ron...great stories. There's certainly nothing of which to be ashamed, Lars. Yardeni was one of my favorites, Ron. I listened to all of his T-100 conferences.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 15, 2001.

That was "Close Encounters of the Thrid Kind", and Richard Dreyfus was the poor schmuck that was so badly driven. The French guy also said "It was an event sociologique. ... They belong here more than we."

If ANYTHING can be said about the entire Y2K mess, it's that it was a "sociological event". That's the whole thing in a nutshell.

-- Dennis Olson (djolson@pressenter.com), August 15, 2001.

Thanks, Dennis. It's amazing how my poor memory can pop up with the slightest hint about an actor or film and there's ALWAYS a poster who can fill in my gaps. But I never would have become acquainted with Jule [in New Mexico], or you [in Wisconsin] or Boswell [in Idaho] or Patricia [in Nevada now] or SO many people from so many different walks of life had we not all been driven [for whatever reason] to obscure Y2k internet fora.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 15, 2001.

Overall, the folks who began discussing Y2k are STILL discussing everything else under the sun

Look at Pooles's lately? CPR is still publishing reams of y2k crap. Apparently it's a late-summer ritual for him. Remember how he DOSed WWW into near oblivion last September and then left for good? OK guy, we all no how bright you are, how right you were. Now shut-up already while you are still ahead.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), August 15, 2001.

Remember how he DOSed WWW into near oblivion last September and then left for good?

Refresh my memory, Lars. If WWW means Unk's place here, I don't believe it came into being until last November.

But, overall means just that. If you feel YOU have something of which to be ashamed, I've struggled long and hard about how I ever got linked up with someone with Charlie's personality. Remember how that one poster reamed me because I'd like to meet Boswell? I live a stone's throw from Charlie and many have asked if I ever met him. My answer was always, "No. I'm too afraid."

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 15, 2001.

Anita--

I don't save posts as Charlie does so I am relying on my own failing gray matter when I recall that CPR trashed this forum in Sept 2000. Maybe it was whatever forum preceded Unk's on Greenspun.

Anyway it was very obnoxious. It must have been a grand finale gesture, because then he left here for Poole's. I agree with CPR on most things political but I can't say that I like his screen persona.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), August 15, 2001.

I heard of the date problem in late 98 and started doing research on the innernet. I found Tb then. I had done some programming and my wife has a degree in computer science. We both believed there was the potential for problems and that (the old mantra) it is better to be prepared and not need it than it is Etc. Etc..

The main reason I believed the problems could be bad is that I worked for Ford Motor and I know there are a lot of poor to bad programmers out there. I lurked for about 6 months before posting. Still don't post much but the dynamics on TB, the personalities, the news ... All I can say is that it is adictive.

-- Mr. Pinochle (nimikos@hotmail.com), August 16, 2001.

Thanks for the responses... interesting thread.

My first intro to a possible problem came in a programming class circa 1980... I just assumed that people would wise up.

My second intro was a mailing done by North to get more subscribers for his Remnant, inserted in a financial newsletter that I subscribed to (circa 1998). I asked the nearest techie type person if it was even possible that what he said could happen. He said, Maybe.

Then just a few days later, I saw a program on CBC that featured the Canuckian computer guy who changed his mind about the likelihood of problems mid-1999 (my senile brain can't come up with his name off hand). It didn't seem at that time like there was a whole lot of remediation effort going on, and I believed that that could be a big problem. I usually listed myself as a 5, but believed that it was smarter to be safe than sorry.

Just today, I was talking to a friend about Flint (I think it was) discussing the limits of "better safe than sorry" and saying that we could all get dressed in suits of armor to drive a car, but most felt it more reasonable to just wear a seat belt and have air-bags. That statement struck me at the time, I just wasn't sure what seat belt and air-bags were made of for a possible 2000 crash. Generally I only did preps that we would eventually use anyway (although, if you'd like some lamps and lamp oil... not to mention rice... :-). I also "met" some wonderful folks through TB2K (even met IRL one wonderfully nice couple), people I still enjoy 'talking' to today. Enjoyed lots of facinating discussions on the bb (even ones I just lurked at) and was disgusted at the rude-bies on both sides. I read less and less through '99, though, had less time and less enjoyment. But the FRL threads alone were all worth it to me (and still are - I know, I have a real bent sense of humour). I rarely stop by here (still don't like rude-bies) and not often at the current TB2K (aliens, comtrails, and religious debates not much of a draw, either). In fact, come to think of it, between having to fight off my daughters to get to the computer and having a life off line, I don't get anywhere on line very often anymore :-) Nice to see this thread here tonight; clearly I lucked out!

BTW, LOLOLOL, Helen :-D

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), August 18, 2001.

Tricia, you mean Peter de Jager?

-- (just@helping.out), August 18, 2001.

Yes! Thanks Helping :-)

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), August 19, 2001.

Since I got to this thread late, and after reading the other accounts, it seems unneccessary to report a personal Y2K history that seems to be rather... common.

Anyway. I was drafted onto a team that built a Y2K safe-box network for Y2K testing and remedial work for a large, large healthcare company I was already working for. I was mildly surprised to find, from the mainframe LPAR dedicated to the Y2K fun, down through the AIX, HP/UX and Solaris midrange arena, all the way down to the MS desktops... nothing signifigant went wrong when the date warped in this safe-box network, nothing we didn't really predict. The unpredicted things that did go wrong were no more difficult to fix than the usual weekly crisis that afflict a major computer-dependant corporation on any given week.

By the way, one major thing I took out of this event sociologique was the that +95% of the public doesn't realize what kind of revenue-stopping computer problems occur, and are fixed, among the F500 every day. I imagine government agencies have similar daily remedial activity.

So. While releasing my Y2K duties to an unsuspecting successor as I prepared to move to a financial services company in the same geographical area, and while trying to avoid a rather rabid, enthralled Roleigh Martin I often encountered while leaving inter-departmental meetings (yes, I worked in the same CO as he,) I ran across a book by Mr. Yourdon in B&N. I read the jacket, got a real laugh. The next year, when I was on "y2k alert" on an early 1/1/2000 morning for this FS company, I did an internet search for Yourdon, wondering how dissapointed he is that the world didn't collapse, and found TB2K.

I think Flint and Decker were already doing victory laps on 1/2/2000. As well they should have been.

Anyway, there's my boring story.

But I have ran across a lot of interesting characters here, and in this forums ancestors, and I truly have had some fun discussions. I guess it goes without saying that I'm glad I found it.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), August 19, 2001.

Reading this thread for a few days has been interesting. Mine is a somewhat different story. I never really cared about the Y2K crisis; for whatever reason, I simply did not believe that it would have any impact on society at large or was something that I should pay any particular amount of attention to. Perhaps it is because I believe to strongly in a market economy, but I did believe (correctly as it turned out), that the resources and commitment were there to fix any problems that in fact existed. Just my personality, I guess. Indeed, when I first stumbled onto the Timebomb 2000 site, I thought it was a parody site (like "theonion.com" or something similar).

I have, however, always been interested in history. My guess as I learned more about Y2K hysteria was that the TB2000 thing was our version of the millenial hysteria that hit Europe in 999 a.d. Then, when the Y2K crisis was a bust, I got really interested in the old Y2K board just to see how the various personalities that populated it would handle the non-existence of the crisis. You may recall that I spent a very pleasant "rollover" in the town square of Cozumel, Mexico.

I still remember "Hawk" trying desperately to prove that crashing airplanes could be related to Y2K, and Carl Jenkins reporting every plugged toilet in the world as a Y2K crisis. And, of course, who could forget Paula Gordon.

And, like the rest of you, I stayed because I came to like many of the personalities that populated the board and became interested in their opinions.

-- E.H.Porter (just.wondering@about.it), August 20, 2001.

In 1980 I wrote a operating system, word processor for a "side" job at Boeing. In 1981 one of my coworkers made a remark about the fact that I was using 4 digit years. I brought up the fact that some day it would change to 2000. He laughed and said "These computers won't even exist then". I got to thinking about it an In one on one a meeting with the CO of Flight Crew Training I brought up the fact that we needed to start implementing 4 digit year now because the close we got to 2000 the harder it would be to change things that had already been using two digit years. I explained why it was necessary and said it was a preventative measure, unnecessary to let a problem develop in the first place. I have no idea where he went with this, as there were a LOT of issues during the meeting that were more pressing to me at the time. All I know is that there was very little problem with Boeing having to remediate two digit years except in small areas where people had written two digit years into their desktop software.

In 1997 I saw a show in TV where old COBOL programmers were being tacked down to go back to work to change two digit years into four digit years. I laughed about it for 3-4 days, though about how many people I had worked with that didn't use their brains, I thought whomever was left with Y2K problems deserved them, for hiring people the kind of people who talked like they knew what they were doing but didn't. I had worked with many people like that, who would go around bragging about doing something simple, but would hide when the real work needed to be done.

In March or April of 1988 I saw a news snip of a group who were going to live in the country and supply their own electricity etc. Decided to do a search and Yep, Gary North was on top of the list. As a matter of fact, there were a LOT more hits for him than anyone else. I started reading. After two days I got scared as hell!!

But I, like many others, had been "programed" our entire life for something like this to happen. From childhood I had practiced crawling under my desk in the even of a nuclear war, for decades the TV and radio had run those Emergency broadcast tests, which I would look at to make sure they were not real.

From what Gary North was posting it looked like technology had gone way beyond my knowledge of it, that so much must have changed and not been made redundant and Y2K compliant, that there was going to be hell to pay. I walked around in a fog, looked at the power lines in front of my home and wondered how people could have been so stupid as to let the infrastructure be controlled by a digital technology without back-up from the old electro-mechanical state. I had watched them run fiber-optics, but, that was phone-not power. The transformers were the same, big and round with the fuses on them. Although some places had smaller boxes.

I had had nightmares from childhood of war and/or a catastrophe, ever since I was 8 (we were in Germany and Dad was going to Berlin)when my Mom told me about London being bombed and said it could happen to us at any time. (Needless to say I was very careful what I told MY children when they were young). I had read plenty of "end of the world as know it" books and stories, had many nightmares of packing up and heading for the hills.

Everything I found on the web told of potential failures everywhere.

I went to my parents and talked to them, told them we would have to move in with my Aunt out in the boonies. They gave each other "the look" and didn't say anything. I hadn't seen "that look" in decades..... They were not worried. Now my Dad knew just about everything there was to know about anything to do with electronics, he was working in it from almost the beginning.

The problem for me was that there was no one rebutting what I was reading. I started researching for myself and as I went along, no one seemed to know how anything worked, only that it would fail. I started learning electronics before I was 10, and one thing with me is I always had to have it explained to me, I had to understand exactly how something worked, and it had to be logical.

I joined DeJagers list.

I read about all the things that were going to go wrong, "THE LIST" of things that would fail. I knew exactly how the cockpit of Boeing commercial airplanes worked, except the 777.

That little project I had done in 1980 was for the procurement and tracking of every part in the cockpit of the 757 and 767. Not to mention I had actually worked in on and troubleshot, and repaired the equipment in the cockpit of the older ones. (And eventually the 757, 767 after they rolled out). I didn't think there was any way they could possibly fail, unless everything had been completely replaced since I had worked on them. Not even the "glass cockpit" was a threat, when they were being designed I raised a stink at Boeing about putting digital equipment in the cockpit, and was shown that the basic flight instruments were to be left in, in case of failure of the digital one. One thing about Boeing, the reason I will not fly on Mac Donald Douglas aircraft, is that Boeing put in so many redundancies that it was almost impossible to not be able to fly. The landing gear, if it doesn't go down with the hydraulic system then it will be done electronically, if that doesn't work, then the wheel well doors are opened in an attempt to let the airflow pull them down, if THAT doesn't work, a crew member will go to the passenger cabin and crank it down by hand-mechanically.

From what I knew of Mac Donald aircraft, they didn't have these redundancies.

In my research I found that no new magical technology had been developed that I didn't understand and everything I looked at on line seemed that pushed failure was tied to web pages to sell fixes, or food or to sites, or other places where people didn't understand the technology.

I was pretty sure my initial fear was unfounded, but seemed to be the only one who felt that way. I remember the first time I became aware of Patricia, she was demanding NY City give her the facts about Y2K, and she gained my respect right there.

Then one day I saw an email on DeJagers, it was someone arguing with the fear mongers, someone standing who was telling them where they were wrong, Even YELLING at them.

So I wrote to him and he mailed me back. This is why I know a different CPR than most other people. He was kind, patient, undemanding and knowledgeable. I told him I didn't think I could stand up to the people on the list, he didn't push me. But he got me thinking. I realized how frightened I had been when I first fell for the hype and knew I knew a lot more than most people on the list by then. So when someone started talking about aircraft falling out of the sky I told them it would not happen. There were a rush of replies with theories about how the aircraft could fail, and I answered each one with knowledge of how they worked. People would come up with an idea that MAYBE this is how they work-but that didn't make them work that way.

It wasn't long before I realized there was a big misinformation situation out there and tracked it down. Dave Hall. He and his spin did more damage than anyone, as most people aren't involved with mainframe computers, but everyone had chips all over their lives. And there was that list of things that would fail because of chips, from elevators to cars. I systematically went through the lists and researched each area to find that there were no problems.

The difference between my research and that of others was I could understand the technology, down to the most minute detail.

I had posted at TB2K once, about women's rolls if we had to go back to the land, but never thought about them for a long time. Finally, when I knew things were going to be OK, I decided to go over and try to give them enough information to ease their fears. I ignored it when I was bashed, I believed there were people reading who might want to know the facts, even if they didn't post. I had had many people write to me privately from DeJaggers list, from the different Debunkers web sites, from other places where I had written. There were a LOT of people who appreciated reading what they felt was factual information.

Not surprisingly, after posting on TB2K for a while I was receiving e-mails thanking me for what I was posting. So I continued till the end.

I'm a stubborn person when I know I'm right.

As it got closer to rollover I started to worry about the mental states of the people who believed so completely that it would be TEOTWAWKI when the rollover hit and nothing happened. It isn't very funny to be fooled into believing something like that and not have it happen. I guess some people were pretty mad about it, and wrote to Ed Yordon expressing their anger. I guess there are some who will never realize Y2K was a non-event.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), August 20, 2001.

Best thread of the year guys.

Stupid me for just getting back to it.

You guys are all great.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), August 21, 2001.

I agree, Carlos. This forum has a great bunch of people from all different walks of life who [for the most] have absolutely NOTHING in common except a desire to keep coming back here.

I wonder why some folks hesitated to discuss this. I wonder why some folks STILL hesitate to discuss this. Soc, Eve, Firemouse: Finish up. Aunt Bee, Cin, and other folks who haven't yet engaged: Feel free. This is NOT a judgment thread, and Y2k wasn't Vietnam.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 21, 2001.

Ok, Anita...

Before I actually posted here, I lurked for, oh I don't know...a few months or so. And I became increasingly frustrated and pissed off from reading things I fiercely disagreed with, yet kept myself from venting it by continuing to withhold from posting. I think my first significant exchange with anyone was in August or September 1999, in a bout with the hapless, unsuspecting soul Ken Decker, who was the first to wander into the path of this runaway train. Well, I was at the point that I felt I should either post or put up with what was probably an altogether new blood pressure that would have had, as its only plus, the cheap thrill of watching mosquitoes on my arm explode. Oh yes, and a new assortment of blossoming facial tics that would have demanded nothing less than a complete musical score by Wagner.

Anyway, after a brief bout of civility that lasted, oh, maybe two posts, I blew up and sarcastically assigned Ken a long reading list of economics texts, and to get back to me when he was done.

I calmed down later on, but oh man, at least for starters, what a bitch this thing had made out of me...LOL!

Hey, Debra -- a ways back I think you posted a photo of what I must have looked like when I first swooped down...'member that? Still got it?

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), August 21, 2001.

Cherri, Y2K was NOT a non-event. Just because
the world didn't fall apart it doesn't mean
that nothing happened.

Problems from updating software continue to this
day.

Could some one show me news articles pre-1999 about
manhole covers exploding. There have been 50 in
Washington DC this year.

California generators began dropping out in early 2000.
By Summer a third of the generators were down. This
was an unprecedented number.

---

I first became aware of the Y2K problem as a programer
in 1986. By 1990 I had correctly windowed any two digit
entries and correctly figured the 400 year algorithm. I
never thought of it as a worldwide problem till late in
1998. That's when I found TB2K. Since I was already
scanning the world's news for Y2K and other stories, I
decided to post the possible Y2K related ones for others
to share. I never got involved when a post got to attacking
people on a personal level. I never got into the doomer-
polly conflict. I thought that the stories spoke for
themselves.

After Y2K turned out not to be a breakdown in society
most people dropped their interest in the subject. What
keeps me accumilating stories is that the dominant paradigm
is that nothing happened. Well that can only be said by
those that don't know or don't care to know. Y2K is still
affecting our lives and will for years to come.

Well Anita, how's that for completely different perspective.
:-§

-- spider (spider@web.com), August 21, 2001.

Eve, why did I post that picture? Wasn't it Ken who said you entered TB2K like a witch on a broom?

I don't know how to post pics directly into this thread. Can someone help?

EVE ENTERING THE TB2K FORUM AND MEETING UP WITH KEN DECKER

-- Debra (Thisis@it.com), August 21, 2001.

Well Anita, how's that for completely different perspective. :-§

It sounded good TO ME, Spider. If everybody thought the same way in this world, it would be a boring place to be, IMO.

Debra, Eve: I missed that picture of Eve the first time around. Maybe someday when she's in the mood, she'll tell me where she purchased those lovely stockings.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 21, 2001.

Thanks, Debra -- that was it! Love it! Ken used to say that (re my initial swoop into TB2K) I had come down on a broom and assigned him a reading list.

Anita, the stockings...where I got 'em -- well, um...ya see, this house fell on my sister...

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), August 22, 2001.

Anita:

Long after the goofy cooking statement, I got an anon email. It said if Anita did the cooking it would be lutefisk:

Norway

served with Ore-Ida potato bits. Someone you know?

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

Z: Since you've said many times that your E-mail didn't work, I wonder how you got an anon E-mail.

Mom and dad ate lutefisk RARELY, but they never tried to get us kids to eat it, NOR like it. We ate a lot of fish [as did my own kids], but lutefisk wasn't one of them. There was something else they ate RARELY. I want to call it pomegranite, but I know that's incorrect. That was ANOTHER disgusting dish.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), August 27, 2001.

Anita:

My real email address still works. Someone in the vicinity of Arlington, TX has it. We are sworn to secrecy on this matter. :)

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

By-the-by Anita:

Everyone that I know likes and respects you; including the person who wrote to me.

They do like to harass you at times. But then you take it so well. Says something good about you.

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 27, 2001.

Sorry Anita, I had written an answer a while ago but it crashed as I was sending it, and I didn't get back to it.

I first became aware of Y2k through all the Net surfing I do. I found Gary North's forum, I found Greenspun. Like Cherri, I was one of those kids impelled by the "Apocalypse...er...Whenever" mode. My mom had been a nurse on our local civil defense team in our little country town. I don't know if she ever read the little brochures on making your own home fallout shelter that she brought home, but I devoured them, and later _On the Beach_ and _Failsafe_ and all the other classics of that genre that I could lay my hands on.

I'm a parent and a cautious one, and there was just no way I was going to put the safety of my family at risk. I don't gamble with my family's heath and safety. I was just not seeing the discourse that showed enough people were paying attention to emergency preparedness or asking the right questions about how our interdependence can be an asset or a detriment, aside from people like that police chief in Ohio who put together that excellent website, or Co-intelligence people. I joined the local Y2k group, we did what we could to raise local awareness. We had a fall storm that knocked out power in the region for 5 days, I found that both my preps and my attitude toward preparedness helped.

I put up a fairly extensive website. Someday I'll rework it to make it into an emergency preparedness and self-sufficiency website, there are still a lot of links to relevant information. By the way, someone at the Library of Congress may be "collecting" Y2k websites for their archives. If you have one or a friend with one, don't kill it until I find out who is doing the project.

Rollover came and went, my preps were a lifesaver during a family death and a serious illness in 2000. My town has not made any substantial changes in the way they prepare for emergencies, so if we have another big storm that takes out the power and phones they'll fuck up on some levels again.

I have no regrets about my involvement in Y2k work. I met some good people, I learned a helluva lot about how things work on many levels. Our local Y2k people were all lefty progressive types, unlike some places, so it was good for some networking and strengthening of connections. If the shit hits the fan for any other reason, my family and I have a lot more resources than we did before Y2k.

-- Firemouse (already@upinthe.hills), August 30, 2001.

Sorry for the late follow up. Actually I came about the forum via a woman I worked for doing temp. assignments. It was downhill all the way from there.

BTW, anyone wanna buy a brand new still in the box campstove, lantern complete with propane? Lol.

-- sumer (I@aint.saying), September 02, 2001.

does somebody that knows ashton and lefsa want to do me a favor? spit in their eye for me AND for a dead y2k hero, curtesy of 9/11.

Those two assholes should have been there instead of him.

-- (pissed@off.y2k.jackoffs), May 15, 2002.

that spider is another y2k-doomer-that-claims-they-never-attacked- anyone. what an asshole. you want me to go through these damn archives and post all your idiotic drivel and polly attacks? Only a fuckin kook would stay interested in something because "nothing is happening" paradigm. you claim y2k is still affecting us...I say bullshit to you...prove it, you lying son-of-a-bitch.

*I* claim that sparrow farts will affect us for the rest of our lives too; I will go to my grave believing that. The real question for asshole jackoffs like you is this:

Just how much is it affecting your life?

HOMELESS people affect everyones lives...but how much? They make you look the other way....uncomfortably...at stop lights. Or maybe you roll down a window and tell them to get a job.

But then...you move on. The homeless person is forgotten, and you go back to your sad, pathetic existence.

Y2k was a homeless drunk on the street corner, spider. Many people looked the other way, some handed over a quarter...others yelled and mocked. But they ALL moved on.

Everyone who is SANE, that is.

-- Your Dumb (ed1@yourdon.com), May 21, 2002.

Unkle dodhaha head is a freak from florida who spun off from y2k fora. He and his mentally insane group now hide out in pw protected forum. They are discussing nonsense and are nothing but a bunch of drunks and losers.

-- Anita (Anita S3@hotmail.com), May 24, 2002.