What are ya'll plannin for this winter--besides workin, that is. I've got many things planned but am sure not all will be accomplished. Lil Dumplin asked me last week why I planned so much when I knew most of'm wouldn't ever be completed within the time I'd allowed for'm. Well, the old fat man told'r--"Lil Dumpllin--if'n I don't have plans made, eventhough I know they won't be done in time, then my old mind gets to wanderin." As I get older it seems, my old brain kinda wanders on its own. I have to have some plans to look forward to or satan creeps in with depression and other things that "ain't" no good. We were made in His image and He never just set around and done nothing! He STILL DON'T!

I am tryin to figger out how to get a trencher that will dig a 6' deep trench about 4" wide---for very little cash. I've got the other stuff for the groundsource water heating/cooling device but that blasted trench is hold'n me up a mite. Local contractors want a minimum of .25 per foot. Probably not a bad price but this old hick don't have that kind of cash to invest right now. [taxes, life, car, house, medical-insurance all comin due along with fillin the propane tank etc.] I confinscated a HUGE A-coil couple weeks ago from an a/c I'd replaced. Large tubing and easy flare fittings for this dude. All I need is about 2,000 ft of trench.

Fix'n to also hook up to Sky Angel sat. for the Christian broadcasts. I very much enjoy hearing the Word proclaimed by many other folks. Normally I wouldn't have listen to different "brands" of Christians for fear of gettin all confused. Not anymore. Not braggin but I'm secure enough in my own beliefs that it would be very difficult to change my mind now.

It won't be very long until ALL Christians can hear Jesus Christ talk in person! "COME UP HITHER"!!! I'm listenin Lord! Glory! old man hoot gibson. Matt.24:44

-- hoot, the hick from Illinois (hoot@pcinetwork.com), July 29, 2001

Answers

Hoot, don't you think a backhoe could do what you need in one day? That'd still be a fair chunk of change, but I think you can rent them for about $400-$500 for 8 hours. Think you'll need more than one a/c coil tho'!

Regarding "brands" of Christians, the Word only talks about one church, no denominations, one Gospel, one Jesus, one way to reconcile to the Father. I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, but if folks are more attached to a particular denomination than to Christ it is problematic. Yes, there are different ministries given to people, but we ought not to be divided over things like we are now. Just think on it, and if what I said is wrong, please go ahead and let me know biblically where it's off. Blessings!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), July 29, 2001.

Hello Hoot, When the winter finally gets here in Louisiana, I have plenty of wood projects to build. My wife is giving me orders everyday plus I have some I want to make to sell for Christmas. Also, it will be time to get the metal detector out and start detecting again. I will make a trip up to my Montana house for some more of the snow fun. I have a pretty full schedule. Later

-- Jerry Travis (travis938@excite.com), July 29, 2001.

Hey Doreen! Sometimes I get kinda excited and forget to explain myself clearly. I agree about the "brands" of Christians but have seen over the years that many denominations of Christians prefer to not listen to others. I also agree that we each have been given gifts that may or may not be given to other in the same church. Each one of us has a job to do and it most certainly is not driving a wedge between other Christians. Guess what I'm trying to say is that in Heaven there will be no Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Assemblies or any other brand. We will ALL be Christians and I think He would like us to be that way here on earth but because of our hard headedness He has allowed us to follow Him under different banners all under the His protection. Clear as mud? Hope I've made myself a little more clear but it sure don't sound like it. LOL.

Regarding the A coil I have. It's a 5 ton with 3/8" alum tubes on the high side and a 7/8" on the return side. Plenty big enough for what I want but would prefer a ditcher rather than a back hoe. Much small trench to fill in! I'm lazy!!

Ole hoot. Matt.24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), July 29, 2001.

Amen to the first part!! I was thinking on what I said and that it might be taken to be bashing someone's church and I really didn't mean it to be, just something I have thought on a fair amount...Should have thought more on how I said it.

I misread your dimensions Hoot! I was thinking 6'x4'. That's a bigger bugger than you need. I know those ditch witches on tractors can do four feet, but I haven't seen one that can do 6'.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), July 30, 2001.

Hoot: Couldn't you run well water thru the A coil without the trenchwork for the cooling effect now, just to get you by till the trench is dug?

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), August 02, 2001.

John! Yeah I could and am sure it would do ok but I'm wantin to try something a little different. I'm actually in no hurry as it's just too hot for me to be outsice very much right now. With a closed loop I can use a little circulatin pump [cheaper operating] vs. the well pump. Don't have to move very much water very fast and in the meantime keep the operating costs down as much as possible. I've even entertained other options other than the ground loop. ONe would be to burry a 500 gallon water tank in the ground and circulate water from that but the initial cost would be quite a bit with the backhoe etc. I've also thought about drilling two waterwells, like you're talkin about, but then we're back to square one---cost. Thanks for the imput. I'll keep ya'll updated as we slowly move along. ole hoot. Matt.24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), August 03, 2001.

Hoot: Around here in WI you can draw water from the well and drain it to surface, thus no need for the second well. You could use the discharge water for the lawn or garden even and wouldn't even have to work outside to get it set up. You're right tho about the circulating pump using alot less electricity.

I've got 1200' of 3/4" poly pipe buried around the footing of the house and use a closed loop thru my A-coil to supplement the cooling from the cool tubes. It ain't the same as central air but its alot better than nothing.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), August 03, 2001.

Could you guys diagram this? I am interested, but having trouble visualizing exactly what you're talking about here. Or give a link to something that explains it? Thanks!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), August 03, 2001.

I don't know about the diagram Doreen but a more detailed description of my setup follows.

I have a house on a basement. Around the house, at the same level as the foundational footings are 6 200' loops of 4" drain tile. Each end of the tiles are INSIDE the basement and the rest is outside. One end is the suction side of the COOL TUBES or the air inlet. The other end is located in my "plenum" or air handler(think box with a squirrel cage blower sucking air thru the drain tiles) Drain tiles are corregated. I set the circle saw up for a very shallow cut, no more than about 1/8", and cut slot in the bottom of the high side of the tiles. I did this to drain off condensation which would otherwise accumulate in the bottom of the tile.

In the plenum well above the aformentioned blower is an A-coil (think two radiators, plumbed together so they form an A without the cross bar.) During the winter I circulate Hot water from the outdoor boiler thru the A coil and it heats the house. In the summer I have another coil, this of 3/4" black poly pipe and about 1200 ft long, buried around the footing also. This is filled with water which I circulate with a very low wattage circulating pump. The water circulates thru the pipes and into the A coil, thus cooling it down. The already cooled air from the drain tile cool tubes passes thru the A coil, thus shedding more of its heat to the water in the A coil, which ultimately is wasted to the ground around the pipes outside.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), August 04, 2001.

Thank you John! I get it now. It's pretty much along the lines of geothermal, but not quite as expensive...a temperature moderator for the summer. Sounds neat! Also sounds like a ton of digging. It wouldn't be any fun to do here unless we had fair rain, very heavy clay and caliche, which is super heavy clay with tons of small rocks.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), August 05, 2001.

Doreen! I've had the idea about layin a trench about 4" wide and 6' deep from 1,000 ft to 2,000 ft. First lay a 3/4" black hose in the bottom and cover with about 6" of dirt. Next lay a 3/4" pvc in the trench and cover again with only 4" of dirt. The last run would be a 3/8"od copper tubing and then fill the entire trench to the top with dirt. With the problems of diggin the trench might as well dig it to 6' depth rather than the required 5'. Temps at the depth of 5' stay a constant 52 deg. f. With more than one "run" the option is always there to experment as well as have some back up incase of leaks or loop failure of some sort.

Circulating a water/anti-freeze solution through the loop and keepin it very well insulated at points of entry and exit the heat/cooling would not be compromised by ambient temps. Use a small circulating pump similar to those used on hot water boiler systems in houses-the water could be moved very cheaply. The rest would be very similar to John's. Circulate through an A coil with a blower behind it. 52F. isn't real warm but then again , in the middle of wintertime when the ambient temps are in the sub zero range then 52F don't sound too bad. Same for cooling too. Most a/c's only have a cooling temp in the low 50's! I'm always lookin for a cheap and simple solution to the ungodly prices we all have to pay for heating and cooling. Very little to wear out with this type of closed ground loop except for that little pump and the blower. Hope this has answered some questions. More to come as we progress at a turtle's pace. ole hoot gibson. Matt.24:44

-- old hoot gibson (hoot@pcintwork.com), August 05, 2001.

Doreen: The system I described is best suited for new construction. Personally I'd never even consider it in a retrofit situation because of the extreme expense and or additional labor.

An additional note. Important to get a 4-5" layer of soil between each coil thats buried, like Hoot said. You need it as a heat sink.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), August 05, 2001.