Pier foundations and Musings

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

I am considering building a strawbale stacked on the sides in a modified post and beam application for ~whenever~ I move to Missouri. The thing that is actually causing me to stop and scratch my head the most is the foundation. Here are my thoughts....In all of the smallish buildings I have done I have had *zero* luck with getting a straight and even concrete slab foundation. Even the one in my barn has some problems and that was done by professionals. I have had luck with building sheds and then evening them up with rocks and also with pier foundations. I am considering a very high pier foundation. Essentially building a very big deck and then putting a house on it. Does anyone have any experience with this type of foundation? How does it hold up to cold??? I just don't want something so close to the ground that snakes and spiders find it to be the most enjoyable place to make their happy homes. I want to be able to get under it and fix things as necessary and I want to be able to get under it when I am old. I'm not talking six feet off the ground, but maybe three and a half or four. So you can sit up straight while you are under it. Is this making any sense in a building context, or am I being silly? I would also like to be able to run all the electrical conduit under the house along with the plumbing. Does anyone have any opinions on these ideas? I hope it's obvious that this is a long way off and the mutterings of a planner....Thanks!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), July 21, 2001

Answers

Not sure about the strawbale part, but around here all homes are built with concrete footings and stem walls with a crawl space underneath the wood framed floor. It's really easy to make the crawl space higher by digging the footings deeper. Wiring and plumbing in the crawl space is okay too. You just need to make provision for freezing weather for the pipes. Post and beam could have a raised floor too. You would just add a skirting around the base like you would with a mobile home. Make sure you don't get in trouble with local building codes.

-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), July 22, 2001.

I can certainly understand wanting to get up high off the ground in MO to get away from the creepy crawlies. Did you know there are tarantulas in MO? I didn't till I had one crawl across the road in front of me one day.....it was a bit larger than my hand! Unfortunately you will have to enclose the area under your house or you will be slipping and sliding over the ice with a torch in hand to crawl up under there and try to thaw your pipes. I'm going to build a cabin in the spring I'm hoping and that is one question I'm wrestling with. I'm probably going to go with either a rock or a block foundation(goodness knows I have plenty of rocks!). I figure if I seal it up good....put screening material in the vents and such I shouldn't have too much of a problem. I'll also toss a box or two of moth balls up under there. Whatever you do don't underpin with aluminum skirting! The mobile home we are staying in temporarily is kind of haphazardly underpinned with aluminum siding. An armadillo coming out from under the house past a loose piece of siding makes a horrible racket at 11pm and 2am and 3:30 am....etc. Not to mention they have a tendency to further tear up the skirting. Same goes for other critters. Pier and beam is fine as long as you can figure out a way to put up some kind of insulating barrier too. You might want to think about using cement blocks and then surface bonding them....sounds absurdly easy and it is supposed to be stronger than mortared block walls.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), July 22, 2001.

I didn't know they had tarantulas there...maybe they rode up on the armadillos???;). I appreciate your input. I will have to figure out what to do about the skirting issue. I was thinking of concrete block filled with sand. Another thing I was hoping to be able to do was to give the dogs a place to get out of stuff when I wasn't home. I figured they'd help at keeping the critters from squatting. Maybe I should approach it like a really low ceilinged basement....churning....can you ghear the gears grinding? Thanks!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), July 22, 2001.

The armadillos are a fairly new critter in southern MO. The conservation department announced early this spring that the hard winter may have wiped them out.....they found a lot of dead ones once the snow melted. They had been experiencing mild winters for the last several years till this last one(I picked a dandy time to move up there). The tarantulas are a native species I think. I didn't believe I had seen what I saw until I looked them up on the MO conservation departments web site. I'd encourage you to visit the Missouri conservation(or it might be parks department) web site and sign up for their free magazine. It is really cool.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), July 23, 2001.

Tarentulas!!! Oh crap!!

-- Cathy in NY (hrnofplnty@yahoo.com), July 23, 2001.


How about Trantulua [I know it's spelled wrong!] soop? Cherokee Indians have buildin directions for yellowjacket soop why not soop for this varmint? Jest in case ya'll want to know how to make the yellowjacket soop----holler! I'll post it. Ole hoot, the hillbilly hick cook. Matt.24;44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), July 23, 2001.

In Belize, virtually everybody's houses are built up on "stilts". I though it was their proximity to the coast, and hurricane caused "flood tides". But they told me it was because of the extreme heat and humidity. They spent most of their time UNDER the house, as it were, where there was shade, and any breezes they were lucky enough to get would be virtually unobstructed.

In Belize it never freezes. You'd need to take special care to protect your water pipes, between the groung and the house, but I've done it successfully here in Oregon. You just have to build an enclosure a foot or two across around the water pipes, with plenty of insulation, not enclose the whole thing.

If you do opt for concrete blocks for skirting, I'd recommend filling the blocks with either concrete, for strength, or loose insulation, for keeping the space warmer in winter.

By the way, it's not that hard to do a straight foundation. You just have to know how. Read some books from the library.

Regardless how high off the ground you make the house, make sure to put in plenty of shear braces. Without them, the house will blow down in a stiff wind, or in an earthquake (you know, I assume that Missouri had the biggest eartquake ever recorded in the lower forty-eight?

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), July 28, 2001.


Joe, What are shear braces? I built our place three years ago on telephone poles ( 10 foot) with 5 feet in the ground. The house is 16ft by 24ft. Do I need to put braces under there? Everything seems sturdy and it is tied together with hurricane straps. The poles are ever 8 ft. Thanks for any information. Daryll

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), July 28, 2001.

Hi, I know I said this somewhere before, but having built several cabins I'd try to manage a cement or concrete perimeter foundation with a basement. If not then heavy piers with a concrete block utility and stairs entrance which would leave room underneath to park cars, etc, and keep the pipes warm. I see houses like this on the Florida coast built to withstand hurricane flooding. Of course then you have to walk a flight of stairs every time you go in. If you want to go straw bale for aesthetics I'd want it close to the ground and solidly attached. It would be a massive looking structure and might be a bit odd standing up on piers. There is so much work in a house that I think it is worth your while to get in a good foundation of some kind, for many reasons. I've lived in several cabins with various pier type foundations and the hassle of freezing pipes, attempting to evict critters, crawling around in packrat dropping trying to replace insulation they'd pulled out, battling porcupines and skunks, etc., that I wouldn't do it again. I have a friend who built a beautiful timber and log cabin on railroad tie piers in the Northeast. Even though he did a very good job on those, dug down below frostline, poured in cement footings for each pier, etc, the weight of the building is now causing it to sag and settle in various places, so either he has to watch all that work get funky, or hire a contractor to put in a perimeter foundation after the fact.

-- Scott Lawrence (krashtt@my-deja.com), August 24, 2001.

Im just 17 and learning about foundations and piers during my internship on a construction site. I dont know if this information can help any of you but here goes... On this construction site a massive building is being constructed (so far only the retaining wall has been erected). These building will be using piers for its foundation. Now i have talked to the engineers and apparently the friction between the piers and the ground is enough to hold up the building by itself with almost no force on the bottom. This leaves for minimal movement of the house. In order to do this the hole for the pier must be like 85 ft deep but in the case of a house maybe the hole could be smaller. Also your foundation is probably moving because you didn't consult a certified geotech company whos job it is to tell you how far to dig your hole and the diameter of the pier. Good luck to you hope my info helped you guys

-- n/a (vikingksk@hotmail.com), June 23, 2004.


Here is another question along the same lines. I just bought a cabin with pier and beam construction. It has been used strictly for summer use with the prior owner blowing out the plumbing and winterizing. Since I will be living there year round I am faced with the same dilemna. I am considering pouring a concrete footing between the concrete piers and then building a 6" stud wall from the footing to the underside of the main floor. I am thinking of fibre glass insulation between the studs or would polyurethane or polystyrene sheets be better. Thanks for the help.

-- Darryl Osickey (darrylo@att.net), September 01, 2004.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ