Wash Water and trees

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We have had NO real rain in months here, and got the Gray water pump working ( sorry this is another Gray water question). What I would like to know is any one Laundry soap better than the rest, or the cheap stuff we use now when recycled for watering trees and plants? I also was shocked by just how much water a washing machine used for a load! We also added 5 rain barrels just in case something falls from the sky. The well is sucking air sometimes so we have to do something, anything!

Wes

-- Sharon (wswiii@worldnet.att.net), July 21, 2001

Answers

A long time ago, I contributed to a thread on the subject of washing machine water usage - so long ago that I can't even remember whether it was on this forum; or on the Timebomb 2000 one (by the way, have new people looked at the archives there? There's HEAPS of good stuff - weeks worth of good reading, interspersed with some dross). Anyway, there is nothing more economical of water than a twin-tub washing machine (that is, wash-tub and spinner) sitting beside a laundry tub for rinsing. All water you spin out goes back into the wash-tub. You wash, spin dry, rinse by hand (maybe with fabric conditioner), wring roughly by hand back into the laundry tub, spin dry. Rigorous pre- sorting of loads means you can put many loads through the same wash water, and the same rinse water. Damp clothes mean water is being removed from the system, so you add it to the rinse tub - this also keeps the rinse water roughly clean. Spinning rinsed wash AND rinse puts water back into the wash tub. Top up the wash tub as necessary with your choice of detergent.

As for detergents, most of them make the water too alkaline to be good for plants. Some of them, if they're diluted with the rinse water, are not too bad. REAL laundry SOAPS (as opposed to artificial detergents) are not too bad (although not ideal either). There is one brand which in Australia has been tested as good for this use, and I quote this only as an example - things can vary markedly from country to country. In Australia, the laundry detergent brand and type called "Dynamo Micro" produces water which is totally neutral - neither alkaline nor acid. You'd have to check locally what each of you available brands does to the pH of water. 7 is neutral, higher is alkaline, lower is acid - scale of 0 to 14. That is, 8 is so slightly alkaline you could hardly notice it, 9 is ten times more alkaline (yes, 1+=ten times, logarithmic scale), 10 is 100x more alkaline, 11=1000x more alkaline, and anything more is way WAY too much.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 22, 2001.


Sorry - should have said "Spinning wash AND rinse".

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 22, 2001.

just try to get soap with no phosphates,, they end up back in youor groundwater

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), July 22, 2001.

I don't think you can get soap with phosphate anymore, most states have band it.

-- hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), July 22, 2001.

I don't want to contaminate your groundwater, but I personally think that phosphate detergents would be good for a lot of plants, since it's basically fertilizer.

I have used phosphate detergents in my wash, and the wash water went out on the kid's playgroung. The grass was very thick there, and very green.

I never thought about the pH, as I assumed the phosphates were so diluted as to not be a problem. However, I learned YEARS ago to use a lot less detergent that recommended by the manufacturer. Play around with less and less than you've been using, until you figure out the minimum necessary to get your clothes white.

By the way, the whole reason phosphates were banned in detergents in at least some states, is because it is such good fetilizer. Yep. Problem was, 80-90% of folks in the US of A live in cities, and virtually 100% of cities dump their sewage into the nearest water source. Hence the problem: the phosphates stimulate growth of algae and other water plants, leading to eutrophication of the "receiving water". Too much algae eventually leads to fish kills.

JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), July 22, 2001.



... and I was talking from memory on my original post. My memory has improved, and I now remember the neutral laundry detergent was "Coldpower Micro" - NOT to be confused with an ordinary Coldpower. Probably doesn't matter for most folks, as only brand names move from country to country - the formulations can be completely different.

jumpoff joe is totally correct about phosphates. Farmers here pay heaps of money for superphosphate - commonest essential fertiliser for Australian soils.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), July 22, 2001.


You folks are Great! I have Very Acid soil here and if this will help get the Ph up some that would be a Big plus. To broke to get a Ph kit that will have to wait till next week or so. We use the least amout of soap as we can. Checked it for Phosphates, none, it is the cheapest Aldies sells. One email said Arm and Hammer was a good one to use for this. I will check the price out. I am still amazed at the amout of water this machine uses on one load! Medium setting will get about 25 gallons low about 17! I do not even want to know what hi will use. I can say one thing the laundry is not such a boring job anymore. If you wash you can water! I still want DAYS and DAYS of rain but at least something even if it has soap is better than nothing! We spent a bunch of money this year on fruit trees and I will do what ever it takes to keep them going till the rain comes. Thank you All and Please keep the ideas and thoughts comeing, It makes me feel good to know I am not insane.

Wes

-- Sharon (wswiii@worldnet.att.net), July 22, 2001.


Dear Don,

Good info on phosphates in laundry detergent. I have two questions for you: 1) What about fecal coliforms? How can you make sure that your garden/water disposal site isn't a breeding ground for the fecal coliforms in laundry wash water?

2) Do you have similar information kitchen sink waste waters? I use the water from my kitchen sink to water my garden. The plants seem to be enjoying the phosphate boost from the soap (I live in Thailand where the soaps are still high in phosphates) and get a bit of aphid protection too. However, I am worried about increasing the alkalinity. Do you think that alkalinity is a problem in this system? If so, what would you suggest?

Thanks.

-- Carmenella (farmin_carmen@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002.


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