How will a war in middle East affect us in USA.greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread
Hi everyone, Just a thought, Since Israel has got to protect herself, And she may have to use atomic weapons, How will that affect us? Will oil be a problem, will fallout be a problem? Just what will happen, I know there are some really smart people out there, clue me in.And I am not some kind of nut, I just simplely want to know, Irene
-- Irene texas (email@example.com), July 19, 2001
A whole lot of us are wondering the same thing Irene. The press isn't paying too much attention to this right now; the missing intern / affair scandal is just to juicy for them to let go right now.
Speaking for myself,I would guess it depends on how much of a retaliation effort Israel put on the offending countries. Their record seems to be 'eye for an eye', instant retaliation. I was sure World War III would start when the SCUDS from Iraq hit them in the '90 War; luckily, the U.S. was able to convince Israel not to do anything but play defense. In that case, the U.S. war planes were already actively bombing Iraq; that isn't the same situation now. I am under the impression that the general Muslem led countries are not at odds with Israel; the militant sector Osanah Bin Ladin (sp?) are the main threats to Israel. Isn't it a shame that most religions profess peace, but somehow people will turn that into a call for war. Unforturnately, it takes two sides to have peace; it takes one to make war. Pray for both sides to maintain some semblence of order.
-- j.r. guerra (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 19, 2001.
Oil won't be any more of a problem than it already is, unless the US gets involved militarily. OPEC is holding, and Iraq is exporting again. Its them you have to worry most about when talking crude (oil or otherwise).
Fall-out, political, might be a problem. Because we spend so much time and effort on being the world parent, fall-out from ANY conflict is always going to affect the US. Israel is just another example. This crap has been going on in one form or another for decades. This is just the latest.
I would be much more worried about economics - especially since so many here have kids in the armed forces. Greenspan has already told the public that continued cutting of interest rates would lead to inflation. When interest rates AND unemployment are up exponentially, recession isn't the word they use. (Remember the old saying: "Its a recession when you are out of work, but a depression when I am.....")
Though the markets aren't really a great guage of world economies anymore, they are down everywhere. The worlds' largest markets are down by over 1000 points, some as much as 3000. They say that we are not in a recession... But, unemployment is up, inflation is up, they are going to cut interest rates again, but the real estate rates are up... In our paper, there are at least 4 articles every single day covering companies that are down-sizing, laying off, taking pay cuts, etc. Today they announced that Albertson's (same folks that own Jewel stores) are cutting stores across the country, headquarters are being halved, and inventory is being streamlined... That's our food, there. Same thing is happening in France, Britain, Germany. Japan, just based on markets is WAY down (Nekkei down 2933). Every leading world stock market is down. Almost all farm based commodities are down. Hmmmmm.... What happened the last time things were this 'interesting'??
I would be more worried about the US spreading itself so thin that our own borders become weakened than I would about the Middle East starting another war.
Putin said today that he sees no enemy in the West. China just signed a treaty with Russia. Both last week had a whole list of things they were mad at us about, and at the signing, both stated that it was a move to check the power of the US in world affairs. Japan said it wouldn't back the Kyoto thing last week when meeting with Bush, but now they are on the European side, pushing us into that treaty. There are dozens of American hostages being held in Central and South America, and God knows where else. We are on alert again and have been bombing Iraq. We are also sending more boys over there. Bush is doing the same thing with Mexican immigrants as Reagan did, and Fox wants more rights for Mexican citizens in our country. Cuba is curiously silent, after all the rhetoric of the past two years - since Gonzalez. Canada is ticked because of the Kyoto treaty. EU is telling American companies what they can and can't do. There are hundreds of armed conflicts going on all over the globe, and some involve US hostages. Besides the Mad Cow and Hoof and Mouth thing in Britain, there is Swine Fever in Germany, some something or other is killing off US wheat, freezes killed so much produce in the Northwest, Oust (weed killer used on BLM land for killing cheat grass spread to farms covering over 50,000 acres) killing off the potato crops, drought destroying crops all over - not just in the Klamath area... There are plenty of things to be worried about...
Remember the White Buffalo......
-- Sue Diederich (email@example.com), July 19, 2001.
Sue, you have done a great job of assessing it. Here's my take from a bit of a different perspective:
If Israel uses atomic weapons, we are all in for it. If Ezekial 38 and 39 happen...well, if we are all still here for much longer we are all in for it. If the US turns it's back on Israel, and joins with the rest of the world against them, we're in for it.
Oil, will just be (more) expensive and less available, in my opinion. Oil would probably be the reason the US would turn it's back on Israel.
Atomic fallout from nuclear weapons detenoted over in the Mid East wouldn't cause TOO many problems here. But I think that the muslim nations have nuclear capability even though most of them profess not to. That's some of the fall out from the dissolution of the USSR. IMO.
No one knows exactly what will happen except for God Himself. When it comes right down to it, I'd have to say that I trust Him more than anything, and anything I speculate is just that. Speculation.
The best thing to look to is the prophetic scriptures. there are also a lot of Native American scriptures that run paralell to Biblical scriptures as Sue was referring to above. Pick your prophet. It doesn't look rosy....I smile anyway because I do trust that it's one day closer to the Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth!
-- Doreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 19, 2001.
I don't really know where America fits into biblical end time prophecy. I have heard some students of prophecy speculate the possibility of two different scenarios. In one, there could be a nationwide revival unlike seen before that would turn the vast majority of Americans to true faith in Christ and so many Americans would be raptured that there would not be enough left to call a nation. The second scenario is that America will be wiped off the face of the earth just before or after the beginning of the tribulation and therefore, will have no role in end times events. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
So far (sometimes just barely) America has been an ally to Isreal. G.W. Bush is strongly in support of Isreal. I think that many of our presidents, since Isreal gained statehood, have at least a basic consciousness that Isreal is still God's chosen people and that they will be central to end times events. Isreal will not cease to be a nation until God creates the New Heaven and the New Earth. There will be no peace in the middle east until Christ puts down Satan's rebellion at Armegeddon.
Will we be affected in America? Most certainly. Whether we like it or not, this is a global community. What happens in the middle east will directly affect every other nation in some way. Neutrality has become almost impossible as the forces of globalism are eroding away the very concept of national sovereignty. Extreme environmentalism (ancient gaia worship revived) will not permit the U.S. to become independent from foreign oil supplies. Every level of our government, including the so-called conservatives, are members of one or more globalist society whose goals are undermining the sovereignty of the U.S. and joining us to the New World Order. This is nothing new. It has been brewing for almost 100 years. The globalist agenda gained it's first firm foothold with the creation of the federal reserve banking system (not an agency of the federal government, but a private consortium of banks that lend money to the government). Every piece of currency in the U.S. is an I.O.U. to the private bankers who hold the real reigns of control. Just watch what happens on Wall Street when Allen Greenspan speaks! Look on the back of a one dollar bill under the pyramid with the all seeing eye (both occultic symbols). It says: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" The translation? "Toward a New World Order."
God is sovereign and we are called to trust in Him as we watch and wait. We are to be wise and discerning in our daily lives. We are to be prepared to live as though He were not coming for a hundred years, while also being ready spiritually to meet Him this very moment.
Okay, I'll get down from the pulpit now. I know you don't all share my views of eschatology, but the important thing is that we believe that Christ is coming. (and apparently very soon.)
-- Skip Walton (email@example.com), July 19, 2001.
****editor's note***** (:smile:)
I wanted to clarify that the "if" I voiced above in reference to Ezekial 38 and 39 is only about this particular scenario we are discussing. God said it WOULD happen...I just refer to "when".
-- Dreen (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 20, 2001.
Based on the level of dialogue above I feel blessed to be a part of this group. The truth is, as we all know and has been stated, is none of us know what will happen apart from the fact that at some point we will be raptured. That's the important fact, except for those of us who are martyred first. We just need to be prepared, spiritually and physically as possible, for whatever. As my former pastor said, we can hope for a pretrib rapture but be prepared in case it doesn't happen that way. I personally think it will be a prewrath rapture but that's just my opinion. I do believe the mideast war will affect us in numerous ways. By the way, July 29 is the 9th of Av on the Jewish calendar and that is the time that many major events have happened in Jewish history so watch for that day.
-- Deena in GA (email@example.com), July 20, 2001.
A third perspective, if I may...
There is another perspective that does not include Americans jumping to Christ or America being blasted off the face of the Earth. The third perspective from an End Times stand point is probably the most terrifying of all. Namely, NOTHING HAPPENS AT ALL!
Oh, to be sure the Palestinians will continue to snipe at the Isralies and vice versa. Small arms, morters, tanks, bombs and rockets. No nukes. The Israelies may be aggresive, but they're not stupid. There's a saying in the Middle East. "There is no war [against Israel] without Egypt. There is no peace without Syria." There is a new breed of leaders in the Arab states surrounding Israel, and they're not as hell-bent on destruction as their fathers were. But, if you look a bit closer, they are working towards isolating Israel in the court of world opinion. They are using more sophisticated tools such as threats of economic and political sanctions. Notice how the U.S. is now forced to demand monitors between the Israelies and Palestinians. That's a policy reversal. Chalk up one for the other side.
Even if things REALLY heat up, it will be a proxy war. The Arab states will feed guns and ammo to the Palestinians, but they'll stay out of it. They'll take the moral high ground and keep their hands clean. Better to let the Israelies look like the war mongers.
And Bush will stay out of it too. The Israelies would be insulted to accept direct U.S. intervention. They are perfectly capable of handling themselves. Which leaves the Sun to rise tomorrow on a slightly tortured planet, the way it has since Adam and Eve. Even if the Rapture and Christ's return was to occur "soon", I doubt it would be in time for me to avoid my August mortgage payment. :)
P.S. to Skip - No way on God's green Earth can you get "Toward a New World Order" out of the Latin phrase "Novus Ordo Seclorum". Here's a tidbit from www.greatseal.com...
[Charles] Thomson coined the motto "Novus ordo seclorum." The accepted translation is: "A new order of the ages." Thomson explains: "The date underneath [the pyramid] is that of the Declaration of Independence and the words under it signify the beginning of the new American Æra, which commences from that date."
-- Craig Miller (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 24, 2001.
It wont because i said it wont
-- Brian Vinyard (email@example.com), December 10, 2001.
Joj, I am waiting for your input....
-- john hill (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 11, 2001.