This case will make you sick to your stomache, I believe that the family was even on The Sally Jessie Raphael Shoe a while back. How justice was served is where I question why? Why the double standard? Why is it that father's who murder their children are sentenced to death, but mommies who kill are shown sympathy. Susan Smith got off with a slap on the hands for drowning her two kids, That Yates woman will get off for killing her 5 kids, just watch. We are the terminal generation, a generation that can so easily murder their children has no future.....

Man gets death sentence for fatally burning infant daughter

Kristen Salem

Jim Walsh

The Arizona Republic

Jul. 9, 2001

A 26-year-old man who doused his 2-year-old daughter with gasoline and torched her to death was sentenced today to die by lethal injection after a judge found that Kristen Salem suffered "unimaginable pain and suffering."

Amber Salem, Kristen's mother, shed tears as Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Barbara Jarrett read a special verdict that detailed why she handed down the death penalty to Shawn Grell. It is the first time Jarrett has imposed a death sentence.

Grell, who once said he wanted to be executed but then changed his mind, bowed his head and showed little emotion as Jarrett rejected defense arguments that he suffered from brain damage.

Jarrett found that Kristen's murder was cruel because she was conscious when Grell set her ablaze, because her slaying was senseless and because Grell knew his daughter would suffer incredible pain when he ignited the gasoline-soaked toddler.

Grell checked the girl out of daycare on Dec. 2, 1999 - by signing Amber Salem's name. He bought a gas can, filled it at a service station and then set her on fire in a ditch at Meridan and Adobe roads east of Mesa.

Kristen suffered "horrendous physical agony," Jarrett said as she read the sentence. "Kristen obviously suffered severe mental anguish as well, as she had to have been terrified as the flames engulfed her," she said. Jarrett also found that Grell had an "evil and perverted state of mind" when he chose to kill Kristen in such manner.

"The defendant knew full well what he was doing," Jarrett said. "He had to know the method he used to end her life would cause tremendous pain."

Jarrett rejected arguments that Grell is retarded, saying instead that he has "borderline intellect," as prosecutors had argued. She said he was smart enough to get jobs, even though he could never keep employment, and that he was able to concoct an alias and a fake family history after a robbery arrest as a juvenile.

Grell suffers from an anti-social personality disorder, and there is no evidence his borderline intellect influenced his decision to kill Kristen, the judge concluded.

Kristen's family members said they worried that Jarrett would sentence Grell to life in prison without parole.

"I'm happy. He got what he deserved," Amber Salem said after the sentencing. "He got what he deserved."

Salem, who left the courtrooms distraught last month as witnesses described Kristen's death in detail, said she would love to attend Grell's execution.

Kristen "is actually able to rest in peace, now that he's getting what he deserved," Salem said.

She said that her life can never be the same with Kristen's death and that she always will feel a sense of emptiness. She wants to have more children someday, but said it would be difficult for her to trust anyone again.

Salem said she plans to go back to school and become a neo-natal nurse because of her love for children.

Gary Bevilaqua, Grell's defense attorney, said he respects Jarrett but disagrees with the death sentence.

"We seriously dispute that he was not mentally retarded," Bevilaqua said. "His brain is dysfunctional. It's damaged . . . it's a physical problem with his brain. It does not reflect on his moral character."

Bevilaqua said Grell has been remorseful since he killed Kristen and wanted to spare Kristen's family the ordeal of a trial. The evidence was submitted directly to Jarrett, who found Grell guilty of first-degree murder in September.

Bevilaqua said Grell had little reaction because he expected the death sentence.

"I think Shawn was less hopeful from the beginning than I was," he said. "When I walked into the courtroom, I didn't know which way the judge would go."

-- scooter (scooter1191@aol.com), July 09, 2001

Answers

So what do you think--should mommies and daddies who murder their children both receive death sentences or should neither?

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.

We are the terminal generation, a generation that can so easily murder their children has no future.....

We?? Speak for yourself bud, don't include me in the we.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.

why juries spare mothers who kill

-- (Paracelsus@Pb.Au), July 09, 2001.

We are the terminal generation, a generation that can so easily murder their children has no future..... We?? Speak for yourself bud, don't include me in the we.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001

What makes you so special, uncle deedah??? We are all in this together whether you like it or not, Bud!

-- Scooter (scooter1191@aol.com), July 09, 2001.

So what do you think--should mommies and daddies who murder their children both receive death sentences or should neither?

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.

Whoosh!!! Right over the head there, eh Lars? Please think that one through again, okay?

-- Doh! (a-deer@a_female_deer.com), July 09, 2001.

Susan Smith got life in prison without the possibility of parole.

This does not qualify as a "slap on the wrist".

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), July 09, 2001.

Susan Smith got life in prison without the possibility of parole. This does not qualify as a "slap on the wrist".

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), July 09, 2001

And her children got what again??? Oh excuse me, that's right, they're dead... If Mr Smith had done the crime, he'd be 6 feet under already....

-- bad polly! (bad_polly@no.crackers), July 09, 2001.

Um...UNK...You don't have any kids. MY theory on this is that if my three survived MY parenting, they're coasting downhill from here on.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 09, 2001.

I participate regularly in a prison ministry. Believe me, these places can literally be hell on earth. Susan Smith must spend the rest of her days in a savage prison society, confronted every day with thoughts of what she did to her precious babies. Reportedly she has been suicidal several times. Clearly she would prefer the quick, easy death you would grant Mr. Smith.

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), July 09, 2001.

What makes you so special, uncle deedah??? We are all in this together whether you like it or not, Bud!

Ummm, what makes me so special is that I don't kill children, never have, never will. So you can, in the words of Samuel Goldwyn, "Include me out" of your blanket statement that "we" have no future. My future looks very bright indeed.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.

Ummm, what makes me so special is that I don't kill children, never have, never will. So you can, in the words of Samuel Goldwyn, "Include me out" of your blanket statement that "we" have no future. My future looks very bright indeed.

Have IQ's just drop sharply this weekend?? You really don't get it do you unc? You are a member of society, no? As part of society, you have a vested interest in what goes on around you. A society that goes around willy nilly butchering its future has no future, period. Bully for you that you don't kill, but obviously, there are people out there who don't share that honour with you.

-- scooter (scooter1191@aol.com), July 09, 2001.

My dear Mr. Scooter, I can assure you that this type of behavior is nothing new. Club of Rome etc etc.

-- Hosebag de la Gasbag (kcdecker@worldnet.com), July 09, 2001.

Have IQ's just drop sharply this weekend??

I am going to say yes, IQ's have dropped sharply, yours in particular. I am indeed a member of society, and I do indeed have a vested interest in what goes on around me. But to say that a society with a few isolated cases of parents who kill their children "has no future....." is stretching things just a bit.

A society that goes around willy nilly butchering its future has no future, period.

Willy nilly butchering it's future? Care to show me some evidence that infanticide is epidemic in our culture?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.

I totally love you, Unk.

-- helen (kids@ll.over.the.place), July 09, 2001.

Let me offer my totally unsincere apologies unc! Silly me trying to care for these strangers. And silly me for giving a flying fuck! Go back to your little perfect world with your head shoved up your ass, that way, you'll never have to give a shit again!

-- scooter (scooter1191@aol.com), July 10, 2001.

Now now Scooter, calm down and think things through. There's no evidence that American parents kill their babies any more now than before, or any more than other cultures. We're simply more aware that these things are going on because of ever more (and better?) sources of news.

Animals kill, even eat, thier young on a regular basis for several reasons, including overcrowding and famine, and "defective" progeny. The human animal, as smart as he thinks he is, still runs on Darwinian instincts.

Who knows, maybe Grell and Smith's murdered kids would have carried the same "defective" sociopathic and/or self destructive genes.

And Unk is right, ofcourse.

-- (recluse@spider.com), July 10, 2001.

"So what do you think--should mommies and daddies who murder their children both receive death sentences or should neither?"

IMO, anyone who is proven to have killed a child in the method described -- especially a parent -- should receive the death penalty.

In fact, such cases make me wish for a momentary suspension of the Constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

Then I realize that to wish for that lowers me to the level of the child-killing parent.

But I do think that the death penalty is called for in cases of this sort where a parent is proven guilty.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), July 10, 2001.

We are the terminal generation, a generation that can so easily murder their children has no future.....

Infanticide is nothing new. In fact, in ancient Rome, in ancient Sumeria, probably many other places/times, it was more prevalent than today.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 10, 2001.

scooter: "Silly me trying to care for these strangers. And silly me for giving a flying fuck!"

I don't think you will find anyone on this forum who will deter you from "caring about" strangers. But, I would invite you to think a bit harder about which forms of "caring" are useful and which are not. There is no particular merit in "caring" that leads nowhere and accomplishes nothing.

I say this because I love you, scooter. And I care about your future.

Bemused: "Infanticide is nothing new."

Quite so. Although cultures that practised infanticide were careful to circumscribe it with rules.

For example, in ancient Rome, a father seeing his newborn for the first time was required to indicate whether he intended to raise it, by taking the child into his arms. If the father was away when the child was born, its fate was unknown until the father came home.

If the father saw the child, but failed to take it in his arms, the child would be abandoned in a specific place, so that anyone who wanted to raise a child could go to the same place, find one and take it home. The status of such a 'foundling' child was equivalent to a slave, unless it was formally adopted later in life, in a different ceremony.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 10, 2001.

History of Infanticide

The Romans routinely engaged in barbarism, particularly towards other cultures, races, etc. While there may have been rituals around infanticide "within the tribe," I am quite certain these rules were not always observed. Deviancy from social norms is predictable as the rising and setting of the sun. History shows quite well that neither sociopathy nor infanticide was invented in the 20th century.

If anything, infanticide is far less common now, particularly in the developed world. I wager this is due to the establishment of social norms against infanticide, the widespread availability of abortion or adoption and general prosperity.

I imagine this will come as a bitter disappointment to the perpetual doomsayers and tormentors of optimists like Senor Deedah. I can only say that it is unfortunate the American schools do not place more emphasis on the teaching of history.

-- Jose Ortega y Gasset (j_ortega_y_gasset@hotmail.com), July 10, 2001.

Little Nipper = helen?

-- (mm@hmm.), July 10, 2001.

The paragraph in History of Infanticide that dealt with "Infanticide in Modem Times" was bone-chilling.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), July 10, 2001.

mmhmm, I'm flattered, but I don't think Little Nipper is. ;)

-- helen (wheres@my.troll), July 11, 2001.