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Hi all I have never canned befor I was wondering can you can without a pressure cooker . thanks in advase for the advice.Lisa
-- Lisa Miller (ljmill35@aol.com), July 08, 2001
You can water batch all your fruit and jam products. Anything with a veg in must be pressure canned. Debbie
-- Debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), July 08, 2001.
Most anything can be waterbath canned. Some foods just take quite a bit longer. Canning was done waterbath style long before pressure canners came along. High acid foods tend to waterbath better and pressure canning benifits non acidic and meat foods.
-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), July 08, 2001.
My mom at 76 does everything the old-fashioned way, of course. She canned all non-acidic foods in a hot water bath for 3 hours. If she had a lot to do, she would do it in a huge tub over a fire outside with a sheet of tin over the top for a lid.Of course, the USDA will tell you not to do that now. They say that you cant can non-acidic foods in a waterbath; too dangerous. Botulism is too great a risk. Funny thing, none of us 9 kids ever got botulism.
I have even heard that you shouldnt do it today like your grandparents did, because there are more resistant bacteria than there were then. Of course there are, but resistant to... boiling temperatures maintained for 3 hours??? Of course, the USDA also strongly recommends not tasting homecanned goods unless you first boil it for 15 minutes. Wonder which mega-bucks food company paid for that study?
-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), July 08, 2001.
Thanks for the common sense! I had an old canning book my grandmother picked up for me when I was 19 yrs old. It was all waterbath. I canned everything coming and going, except for meat and fish. Never had one can go bad in the four years that I lived in the country. Lost it during moving and divorce, etc.I read that report about boiling home canned foods for 15 minutes too. If there is botulism that can't be boiled out while canning, then boiling it for 15 minutes is supposed to kill it????
By the way, I've been searching high and low for another copy of that canning book. If you'd be willing to make a copy of it I sure would be willing to pay for it. I found one from 1900 but they boil everything to death, some as long as six hours and I know it didn't take me that long to do green beans in a hot pack.
-- Stephanie Nosacek (pospossum@earthlink.net), July 08, 2001.
I would still stand by the: "if it is acid type food -- water bath" but "if non-acid -- pressure can". The foods we can now days are very differant varieties from the old days for one and there was a reason for pressure canning --- death! It is just not worth risking your life (or other's) over being determined to do it the "old ways". Life just possesses enough dangers in a days time to have "help" from the canner! Yes, people did it for years (I remember my Grandma doing it) but your not just talking about getting a tummy ache...your talking death. Remember some times you can't even smell it when a jar goes bad!
-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.
Waterbath in boiling water kills many bacteria, however, the other posters have a good point regarding resistant and mutated strains that have developed over the last 25 years. With that in consideration, I have to alter my stance on this also. Hot water is good for sterilization, hot water under pressure is much better. If the cost factor is the problem for you (canners can be awful expensive) consider buying a $20 dehydrator for the non acidic vegetables for now.
-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), July 09, 2001.
Okay, here's the dope on botulism and canning, as per my own secular bible, the Encyclopedia of Country LIving:Botulism bacteriums, or bots, live in the soil all over. They don't do well in the refridgerator. When cooked,the bot bacteria die easily, but their spores are very resistant to high heat. High-acid will kill them, but low-acid may not. If the spores get a decent combination of insufficient heating, no air, and low sugar content, they go wild. Bot spores can RESIST A LOT OF BOILING! They are reliably killed by 204 degrees, achievable only under pressure.
Bot toxins, formed in the aforementioned no air, no sugar, undercooked jar of food, one of the deadliest toxins around. If you merely touch your finger to the toxin and then touch that finger to your lips, you could die. 16 oz of bot toxin would be enough to kill the entire world's population. It has no smell and no taste, and does not change the look of the food. However, BOILING FOOD 15 MIN DESTROYS BOT TOXIN.
Symptoms of bot poisoning usually appear within 18-36 hours, but may take up to 8 days. Nausea, vomiting, blurred vision, dry throat, difficulty swallowing. Progressive muscle weakness occurs, eventually striking the respiratory system.
Bot poisoning has occured withtomatoes, pickled beets, salsas, and other "no-can" type of foods. Bot bacteriums can survive in higher- acid foods than was originally suspected, which is why you are suppose to either pressure can or boost the acid in tomatoes if you're going to water bath them. Hot-packing, where-by you bring something to a boil, then lid them, and let them seal that way, can definately lead to bot poisoning, even in pickled foods. Pickled foods must be water bathed. Hope this helps clarify things. I'll be posting this info seperately. Some sentances in the above were taken directly out of the ECL for clarity, a fair use, but most has been paraphrased in my own words.
-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), July 09, 2001.
Okay, I understand that you are politically correct. Lets get back to common since. The toxins that kill you live in the soil. The vegetables that grow in the soil that are most likely to have the toxin according to ag reports are green beans.Now, since nothing will kill this toxin except for (according to the reports) pressure canning, I don't suppose you have ever picked green beans from the garden and fixed them for dinner prior to pressure cooking them?
If the reports of the bot toxins were acurate then they wouldn't allow the grocery stores to sell fresh green beans without warning labels imprinted on each and every one. lol.
I understand your wariness. I suppose having been raised up in a farm family and around country people most of my life has taught me look at things objectively.
It's just like the lady who came into my college class to let us know what was going on with the AIDS/HIV
-- Stephanie Nosacek (pospossum@earthlink.net), July 09, 2001.
Okay, I understand that you are politically correct. Lets get back to common since. The toxins that kill you live in the soil. The vegetables that grow in the soil that are most likely to have the toxin according to ag reports are green beans.Now, since nothing will kill this toxin except for (according to the reports) pressure canning, I don't suppose you have ever picked green beans from the garden and fixed them for dinner prior to pressure cooking them?
If the reports of the bot toxins were acurate then they wouldn't allow the grocery stores to sell fresh green beans without warning labels imprinted on each and every one. lol.
I understand your wariness. I suppose having been raised up in a farm family and around country people most of my life has taught me look at things objectively.
It's just like the lady who came into my college class to let us know what was going on with the AIDS/HIV research. (sorry about that hit the wrong key and it posted.
She was from the department of health. She told us that aids was passed on through needles and sexual intercourse. Somebody asked her how they were coming along on research with AIDs infected pregnant women and did all the babies end up with aids?
She stated that they used amniosynthesis to test the babies while they were still in the mother's womb and had found that the babies were indeed AIDs free.
I raised my hand like a good little nonconformist and asked, "Okay, so the way someone gets aids is through blood transfer, bodily fluids and needle usage and you are testing babies of AIDs positive mothers by inserting a needle through her body, into her blood vessels and flesh and inserting that needle into the sterile invironment called amniotic fluid?"
When the woman made the connection, as well as, 50% of those in the class, her mouth dropped open, she turned pale as a ghost and left the room without even saying good-bye. I never saw her on campus again.
The point I am trying to make is that science and scientists can sometimes be so stupid it takes a normal person to see the truth. Botulism has always been here and so have farm families. Most of the recent cases of botulism which have been reported have been when people have left food out and eaten it, eaten eggplant pressure canned in oil and other atrocities. Even though the eggplant was pressure canned commercially, the oil allowed the toxin to remain in the food.
None that I know of have been a result of home canned food with low acid. That's my two or four cents worth.
-- Stephanie Nosacek (pospossum@earthlink.net), July 09, 2001.
Actually, its the bacterium that live in the soil. They only produce the toxins in the airtight, low acid environment. There's too much oxygen by far in the soil to allow for toxin development. On there own, the bacteria are harmless to us. You could swallow a bowlful without suffering any harm whatsoever. I thought of this after I posted, but it was late and I was tired. Hope that clarifies the issue.
-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), July 10, 2001.