Wednesday July 04 01:00 AM EDT

Bush Under Strain, A Heartbreak Away

By Robert Scheer

So much good news has been generated by the Bush administration concerning the health of Dick Cheney (news - web sites) that perhaps all of us should have four heart attacks, a quadruple bypass, a stent inserted in a coronary artery later reopened to remove blockage, and both a pacemaker and a defibrillator installed under our collarbones in order to ensure longevity. Try selling that to your HMO.

Hopefully it's true that the extensive medical intervention provided free of charge by the socialized medical system available only to the White House and Congress can keep the vice president's permanently damaged heart pumping.

But surely it would be more prudent to conduct the search for a miracle cure outside of the pressures of the White House environment, where Cheney puts in 60-hour work-weeks running the country because the president is not up to the job.

There was something macabre about Bush's cheerful insistence that Cheney would soon be back on the job because the vice president just loves to work so hard. Isn't it a bit weird that it is George W., the young healthy guy, who has to take all of those daytime naps? Perhaps Bush is conserving his energy because he knows that he's only a heartbeat away from the presidency.

He may also have a darker view of Cheney's condition, having access to the vice president's medical records, which have been held secret. This is unprecedented for a president or vice president in modern times.

It's a sad measure of the president's need for adult supervision that Cheney has become the first vice president in modern U.S. history to seize control of the White House and render the president himself a public relations front man sent around the country to do photo ops.

It may not be polite to dwell on the point, but it's a well-recorded fact that the president messes up just about every time he departs from the restraints of the tightly scripted events.

Imagine the never-ending attacks on Bill Clinton had he been the one to look deeply into former KGB spymaster Vladimir V. Putin's eyes and pronounce him a man with an endearing soul.

Nope, Bush had best stick to what he's good at, flashing his Alfred E. Neuman "what-me-worry?" smile before the cameras and leaving the harder stuff to his handlers, of whom Cheney is clearly No. 1.

Everyone knows that Cheney, not Bush, runs the show, which helps explain the inexperienced president's miserable poll ratings -- the lowest of a president in five years -- particularly when people are asked if they have confidence in Bush's competency.

Why should they, when a political relic like Cheney, inevitably distracted with health problems, is the one in charge?

How desperate was Bush for an authority figure on the ticket that he stuck us with Cheney, whose medical profile should have automatically disqualified him to be the president's backup?

Cheney's serious heart problems are longstanding, and he did Bush and the nation a serious disservice when the vice presidential search he directed resulted in Cheney himself being chosen as the most viable candidate.

Photo ops are obviously a fun time for the president, and such events play to his real talent, but someone has to be at work in the White House running the country. It is cruel and unusual punishment to keep dragging Cheney out of the hospital to do that.

Cheney has said he would resign if his heart problem interfered with his work. It obviously does, given that he is under constant monitoring, which at the very least must be a major distraction. Not to mention the strain on his heart were the president to become incapacitated, leaving Cheney with his finger that close to the nuclear button.

Think of it this way: Cheney's medical condition would disqualify him as a private in the Army. It certainly raises questions about his ability to function as commander in chief with ultimate responsibility for our collective security.

It's time for Cheney to resign and for Bush to appoint Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) to the vice presidency, the man who should have been his surrogate president all along.

-- (our once great Democracy @ sinks. to new lows), July 06, 2001

Answers

Yep, that’s what you would expect to hear from Robert Scheer. Golly Sarge, do ya think old Bob has an axe to grind?

* Writes for the Los Angeles Times…..as liberal a rag as ever was.

* Well known militant Jew…..”look what they did to my Joe”.

* So far to the left he no longer casts a shadow.

Regardless of your political bent you must consider the source when reading crap like this. Are there any middle-of-the-road journalists still working in our country?

-- So (cr@t.es), July 06, 2001.

* So far to the left he no longer casts a shadow.

Thanks for the morning chuckle, Soc.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 06, 2001.

That's it? Cheney shouldn't serve because he has a heart condition. What about a former president who sat in a wheel chair through most of his term? He wouldn't have made it in the Army, either. Did anybody begrudge his medical needs? Stupid article.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 06, 2001.

I really liked this statement, "Everyone knows that Cheney, not Bush, runs the show..."

Since there is obviously no shred of evidence that this is the case, the author tries to substantiate his "fact" with the time honored "everyone knows".

I am no longer surprised by the leftist propaganda that is spewed forth by the nation's "news"papers. What continues to baffle me, however, is the general ignorance of the American public when they actually believe that which is printed in those rags. I guess the public "edukashun" system has done its job well.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 06, 2001.

Here we have examples of how people try to use weak and obvious methods to distract the reader from the points being presented.

The first example is;

Changing the Subject:
The person presenting an argument is attacked instead of the argument itself.

The character or circumstances of the person writing the article has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the proposition being presented.

The second method being used is by:

Inductive Fallacies
False Analogy: the two objects or events being compared are relevantly dissimilar

former president who sat in a wheel chair

There is a big difference between having legs that are disabled and having a heart that is progressivly getting worse, which could fail, resulting in death.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), July 06, 2001.

Hey J, get a grip bud. Americans don't read newspapers anymore.

You don't honestly think if folks were informed they would have voted for these two jerkweeds in the WH now do you? (most didn't but that doesn't matter now, lol).

BTW, nice job these two dolts are doing! Man and I thought his Daddy tanked things fast, wrong again. This must be the new and improved toxic Shrub.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 06, 2001.

“The character or circumstances of the person writing the article has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the proposition being presented.”

Cherri, if ignorance is bliss you must be a very happy camper.

-- So (cr@t.es), July 06, 2001.

The Los Angeles Times is not a liberal newspaper. Why not address the statements in the article, rather than attack superfluous and irrelevant details -- as Cheri has suggested? ".... general ignorance of the American Public..." Indeed.

-- Miss Ann Thrope (random@thoughts.com), July 06, 2001.

“The Los Angeles Times is not a liberal newspaper.”

Well Miss Ann, looks like you too are a very happy camper.

-- So (cr@t.es), July 06, 2001.

Course EVERYTHING looks "liberal" if one thinks the Moonie-owned Washington Times and UPI are it. Or think CocksNews, the Murdoch owned PR washing machine has anything beyond bs to spew.

Keep sleeping Ann, you are doing fine. Doubt you will be too successful in this hypocritical buttkissing society, but you will sleep good at night with the knowledge you are not selling your integrity for some flashy trinkets and hollow thrills like many.

-- (too@funny.haha), July 06, 2001.

At least Clinton worked his ass off, seemed like he never slept. I think it is a total slap in the face to the American people that Dumbya takes naps during the day and long weekends to his ranch or Camp David. He said he would work hard for our country and it seems he is on vacation most of the time. What a low life disgrace to the office of the presidency. The Saturday Night Live parody summed it up best when Dumbya says "I promise you I'll work 24-7 for the people. That's 24 hours a week, 7 months a year."

-- (Dumbya the @ sick. lazy fuck), July 06, 2001.

Cherri,

Sorry, I neither "changed the subject", nor did I use an "inductive fallacy". I simply exposed the article for what it is: liberal propaganda.


twofaced.scum,

Obviously there were enough informed people that Al Gore didn't get elected, so there still may be hope for America.

As far as your comment about "things tanking fast", your ignorance is showing. The Nasdaq composite peaked in March of 2000, and the Dow Jones Industrial average peaked in January of 2000. Both of those occurences happened under Clinton, not Bush. Further, no economy expands forever, regardless of who is President.


Miss Ann Thrope,

You wrote, "Why not address the statements in the article..."?

I did just that, and exposed it for a completely unsubstantiated piece of propaganda, and nothing more.


too@funny.haha,

Have you tired of being Doc Paulie? If so, may we ask why?


anonymous coward,

Actually, I would venture that most of America is pleased that our current President is napping rather than having an affair with an intern or groping a woman whose husband was on his way to commit suicide. Do you consider those two activities work? LOL.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 07, 2001.

Every man needs someone to suck his dick once in a while. J has obviously been designated to fill this need for Dumbya.

-- (bwaahaahaahaha!! @ J sucks. Dumbo's dick!), July 07, 2001.

Dumbya the dumb fuck, picks up one dog, and drops the leash of the other one...

Dumbya the dumb fuck, doesn't seem to be able to deal with a leash without getting tangled up in it...

Dumbya the dumb fuck, dumber than his dog...

-- (Dumbya can't walk @ and. chew gum at the same time), July 07, 2001.

That's a pretty small Springer. Must be one of those dogshow types. Bird bred Springers gotta be bigger than the goose.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), July 07, 2001.

J is it possible for you to be HONEST?

Freaking econ is shit for the same reason it was shit back last summer====BUSH. YOU know it so cut the the crap, K?

Bush won because of an orchestrated rise in energy prices which started at least a +year ago. Even with that economy tanking help from his handlers, and running against Clinton, and not the opponent, Dubya still had to steal the freaking election. Jackass spent more money than anybody EVER. You don't think these people expected to lose do you? They did "WHATEVER IT TOOK", as parroted by you "great amerikans" who seemingly spend your every moment broadcasting the bs for them, for FREE, gladly(too funny it is).

Econ smells like manure now and for the foreseeable future. Beyond a few assorted fatcat world Capitalists, nobody is buying the bs from this rogue administration. Market sucks even with a population FULL of baby-boomers and their investment dollars, earnings, and dreams. How is that possible J? And forget the cycle crap as Clinton blew that one don't you remember? 8 years of prosperity J? out went the charts and brainfarts from the "economists" and "telebuddies" and their well honed "analysis".

This IS NOT even debatable and YOU sir need to get real. How many damn Fed rate cuts will it take for you to GET IT J? This thing is on life-support. The DREAM is all but dead, get it? the pipes shut and Joe Public has been shown the door.

The Information Age has died in a web of Monopolistic Control. We have no Information Agenda, we have same-old-same-old drill for more outdated energy sources, WOW what a concept! Beyond ridiculous, it is INSANE is what it is.

The financial markets have been compromised by all manner of Capitalist pig who actually are under some delusion a CEO is worth 20 to 50 times their frontline workers. A sick shell game funded by the good working folks of this once solid country. Like these people give one crap about anything beyond next quarter? or how much they can cash their options in for? Mutual fund hell is what we have.

We are offered PEANUTS and told to use this $$$ to pay for our wonderful new gasoline prices. Bend over America! The Scum wants the rest of the payback to boot!,,,,even your puny checks. This can't be that difficult, can it? Are most of you so used to being dicked you just missed this one? Read my Lips is playschooltime compared to the dicking you are all getting now.

Again, the market is crap because few are buying the bs you J seem to like so much. Obviously in your world, all them people and their money are wrong and J is correct. Plain odds should indicate to you, something fundamentally is a tad fucked at this point. I doubt even you could justify this on some wacky "cycle" bs. The game stopped and the "players" have no pants.

Do you honestly think, if Gore were President, the economy would be stalled? or as I claim, tanking? No way Jose is the correct answer. Dems are FAR from perfect, but Bill was galaxys better than this shrub clown. Gore would have struggled, but I doubt his deal, his answer for example to California, would have been "too fucking bad people. You made your bed sleep in it. We ain't doing shit for you".

Bush has sent messages. He has appointed people. He has proposed. He has made visits overseas. The jury is in, he sucks, his policies suck and has a falling approval rating to prove it even amongst the goose- steppers like you J. All in record time this boy wonder.

We need leadership. We need an administration who will continue TRUE deregulation. An administartion who understands the value of VENTURE CAPITAL, not get the money from the taxpaying suckers like I did for my entire life GW Bush and friends. One which understands most want to live today and with a BIG foot in tomorrow. We do not need one which proposes turning back 100 years of progress. One which thinks drilling for more oil is "a good policy". One which is nothing more than an installed puppet for Tom Hicks and Kenneth Lay and their interests.

We do not need a President who tells a California and the West to "go to hell". A President who thinks KGB guys are kewl, and have just been "misunderstood is all". A President who thinks it is now great we are in NATO and wants to get closer. A President who wants to actually build a ridiculous defense shield which was canned a decade ago as so much destabilizing bs. A President whos only answer to being a bad parent is "you press guys better lay-off Jenna". Then has the sheer balls to call a conference on Fatherhood. Guy is a major laugher, I give him that.

Going to get much worse J, as you know. We ain't seen nuttin yet. Save for the Dems regaining the Senate, taps were scheduled.

I still have Faith in the good folks of this Nation to continue this now 225 year-old experiment. We will survive these crooks. However we do not have to put-up with a defective administration without loudly voicing our opposition to their little bs games. Called Freedom. Diversify and balance and America will be just fine. Sorry to break the news to you Conservatives, but you been lied to real good. How do I know? Simple, the Money is saying so.

-- (bush@twofaced.scum), July 07, 2001.

I'd love to see the picture when he put the dog down and it took the umbrella with it.

-- heeheehee (Dunceya@dumber.than.mud), July 07, 2001.

BTW J and Company.....NOBODY beyond you hard-up sexual deliquents gives a flying fuck about no interns or any blow-jobs. I know this stuff is a major issue with you "ain't getting any", or "can't get my 2 incher up no mo" dudes, but please, give it a rest. Go get laid or something. Happy Days ain't coming back, it has been cancelled, along with seperate beds.

-- (bush@twofaced.scum), July 07, 2001.

"J is it possible for you to be HONEST?"

No way, he's just like Rush Limbaugh, a pathological liar.

Even worse, he calls himself a follower of Christ.

-- (J will burn @ in. hell), July 07, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

WOW! I didn't realize that it was possible for someone to be so deluded.

So Bush tanked the economy even before he became President? Now that's a feat!

You actually have it all wrong. The space aliens caused the rise in energy prices. You see, Bush promised them that they could have all registered Democrats as a food source in return for causing the price rise in crude oil.

You said, "Market sucks even with a population FULL of baby-boomers and their investment dollars, earnings, and dreams. How is that possible, J"?

I have to laugh at your simplicity. You obviously know next to nothing about how the stock market works. There are many ways how that is possible, scum.

First, and foremost, the economic expansion part of this cycle is done. Your totally ignorant, devoid of reality, "And forget the cycle crap as Clinton blew that one don't you remember?", notwithstanding. Much capital has been squandered into the dot com rat hole, and those excesses are starting to be paid for now.

"This IS NOT even debatable and YOU sir need to get real". LOL! You are a spectacle.

The market is certainly in for a rough ride for some time to come, I will agree with you there. Your idiotic ranting that it is because of Bush is so preposterous that, in a way, you are correct that it "IS NOT even debatable". LOL.

"The Information Age has died in a web of Monopolistic Control". LOL. Your view of reality is very entertaining to see.

I don't suppose that the truth about the failures of internet start-ups could have had anything to do with greedy idiots blindly throwing capital to more idiots who had no viable business plans, could it? LOL. Your whining leads me to believe that you bought Amazon.com somewhere north of $100, and you still own it.

Your understanding of the stockmarket is so simple that I will try to sum up the gist of the problem for you in a very simple way. When Yahoo! had a market cap larger than GM and Sears combined (or some such folly), no Fed chairman (regardless of how many rate cuts), and no President (regardless of his political party), was going to be able to make the day of reckoning caused by that financial abomination any less painful than it has to be.

If it makes you feel any better, feel free to twist reality around in your mind to try and put all the blame on Bush. However, the truth of the matter is that these market excesses all occurred under Clinton, not Bush. And the days of reckoning for those excesses began under Clinton, not Bush.

If you weren't so blinded by your hate of all things conservative, you would be able to see that what I have said is fact.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 07, 2001.

Note the handle J, stay IN reality K?

What you have said is OBVIOUS. No kidding priceline.com was over- priced any place beyond a freaking nickel. No question we were well overdue for a little "correction" from the "internet" hoopla. You have said nothing but the plain facts any joe knows, then or now.

Unfortunately in your little reality most investors are unable to decide that priceline.com not worth a plug nickel. Most are forced to deal with the decisions of fatcats and their dupes the fund managers. Ponzi scheme, look it up.

What is the little twits response to this Stock Market Ponzi scheme model? Let the poor saps invest a "portion" of their social security in the market. Get the fuck outta here. Market took care of that bonehead proposal pronto.

Bush has done nothing but talk down the economy since they decided to run the clown. Go play with yourself J I am tired of chatting with people at an eighth grade level understanding of Life. Been where you want to go ages ago, boring. You are debating a RIGGED System as if it were some freemarket, BS.

As to your Conservative dribble, I will say I am overjoyed to know I am not a parrot of some bgrade fatass radio talk show host with half his brain up his ass. That I am not in awe of a nazi pig like Tom Delay or that corncob freak Trent Lott-a-bullshit. I am grateful I do not think Jesse Helms a great man. I am glad I think Pat Robertson a freaking turd. I am as well glad I think Barbara Boxer a phony BI. That Jesse Jackson needs to stick-it. That Al Gore is a wussy.

It is a freakshow. They ALL suck bananas. Sooner we all admit as much, the quicker we can take back the power from these circus clowns. We must stop playing THEIR division building games. The phony either/or arguments over nothing.

Address the issues which allow a Stock market to toss BILLIONS of OUR Dollars after nothing but fancy webpages. A system which thinks a CEO worth 50 times what the ACTUAL value-producing workers get in return.

Break-up the bottlenecks. Cut government, cut taxes, and the rest will take care of itself faster than you can read this post. Send the LEECHES packing.

Never going to happen as far toomany leeches like the advantages afforded by a government run for their benefit, but one can hope.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 07, 2001.

No sense trying to talk truth with J. He will lick Dumbya's balls until the day he dies.

-- heeheeheehee (J loves @ King. Dumbfuck!), July 07, 2001.

Course he will, he likes the way things are. He likes having billions of stupid money on the floor. He likes the fact, little if anything any more, has any relational value.

J is a phony. A dishonest person who finds something which "sounds good", and uses it as an excuse for a personality. He is a cliche.

Be thankful you are not him.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 07, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

Right, every buyer of Priceline.com was either "forced" to buy the stock directly, or they were "forced" to buy a mutual fund that bought the stock. Who exactly "forced" these poor buyers to do this, the same space aliens who rigged the energy markets? LOL.

You have been where I want to go?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That is funny! Rest assured, I definitely do not want to go where you are now; I have never liked the taste of Night Train or Boone's Farm.

Billions of whose dollars? If you bought overpriced internet stocks, it's your own fault. The "issue" that allowed others to do the same is called freedom.

Ironically, in all of that twisted "logic" of yours, you somehow hit the nail right on the head with your, "Cut government, cut taxes" proclamation. I guess that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

I am a cliche? LOL. I guess we can't all be like you, you renaissance man, you.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 07, 2001.

Here an example of the problems. Since we are talking priceline.com I will use it.

Here is a recent copy of their 10Q filing with the SEC, PRICELINE COM INC (PCLN) Quarterly Report (SEC form 10-Q) Pretty ugly indeed(go read it, it is pretty amazing). Now the question would be to anyone legit, why would a person invest in a company with a mile-long list of items which do or could severely impact their ability to even exist? Priceline.com even is so bold as to say they may NEVER turn a profit, EVER! They flat-out say it, so why do they bother? lol

So the question becomes, why are they IN business? Because SOME are making a pile of dough is why. Who might THEY be? Well here is the latest list of their Management's compensation. Pay special note to their CEO, a J Boyd. This fella has been with them all of about a year and a half, and CEO for a mere 9 months. His compensation? 5.8 MILLION USofA dollars.

I do not care what rational is used. How many fancy comparisons you make, whatever, fact is this guy is not worth even a couple of hundred grand if this priceline.com were a "legitimate" concern.

Where does the money come from to pay a J. Boyd 5.8 mil for 9 months of "work"? Stockholders,,,,Taxpayers,,,,and the Customers is where. What do you figure these folks get in return? Screwed be the only correct answer.

Stockholders get it largely thru mutual funds which actually think this pcln paper an investment and not toilet material. Course we all know an individual shareowner of a mutual fund has tons of control as J would have one believe. Adding to the problem is many of these shareholders are in 401k type plans which do not offer any way out of being in these ponzi scheme deals called Mutual Funds. Many offer but a handful from a few big companies and allow no other choice beyond straight cash assets(place to always be BTW in a 401k).

Here is a list of which Funds actually think it prudent to invest RETIREMENT MONIES into a company who they themselves say probably will NEVER be profitable....Top Mutual Fund Holders of PCLN Not sure what the advisors at these Huge Firms are smoking, but it is pretty obvious to me, they are completely incompetent and I personally believe CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT in even considering a priceline.com an investment. My own opinion. These investment advisors are investing with supposed timeframes of years in a company who TELLS any who will listen, and backs it up with ridiculous financials, they may go bye-bye tomorrow.

Do the Fund Managers at Fidelity really care about your retirement nest-egg? What do they make from placing your money on the priceline.com wheel?

How do the Taxpayers get reamed in this? PCLN I doubt pays a dime in taxes but operates to pay a J Boyd 5.8million bucks a year. I would also bet they receive some nice hand-outs in the form of breaks and fancy accounting tricks which create nice write-offs against supposed losses that were profits before the tricks. Closer inspection would reveal the probable reason these priceline.com folks even bother. Taxpayer takes the risk, provides backdoor financing and again, a way for these guys to cover their risk by way of tax breaks and credits. This model is set-up to NEVER be profitable or even care if they are. It is a scam, a big one no doubt, but no different than a welfare leech who claims they will get a job real soon and is hands-out for generations.

Commerce passes thru priceline.com, BILLIONS. People are paid, goods are sold etc. They live off of cheap capital provided by trapped investors and tax codes which promote leeching. If only YOU had such advantages. How long would this priceline.com last if it were Joe's Plumbing Service? It would not even exist, period end of freaking story. Legitimate business people have to make payrolls. They have to provide VALUE and SERVICE, called TRADE. What in the hell does PCLN provide? Nothing, not a damn thing but a nice scheme lining a few scumbags pockets is about it.

I would submit the "business" of booking airline flights and the like is but WINDOW DRESSING. Think about it. Think about the surreal Captain Kirk commercials.

I tried priceline once(keyword is once). It was nothing more than if you call a travel agent and they call you back. Took over a freaking hour to tell me the quote price THEY recommended, was declined. Quotes they offered were MORE than just going directly to the airline yourself and doing all the work.

I am sure there are people who rave about priceline. Well more power to ya but I can assure you the same or better is had quicker and better by just clicking a few different links away from them. Priceline's falling user numbers tell the story.

Is priceline typical? Well sadly they are.

Take away the captive pool of retirement capital and the greased tax code, and a pile of businesses(scams) would end tomorrow. Priceline is risky, let THEM take the risk, not millions of chained individuals and taxpayers.

Next time some FreeMarket Hack(probably a Republican)talks about business, put said into a small business context. Take away the taxpayer supports. Take away the market of cheap captive money the Stock Market provides to the Big Boys, see if the rhetoric don't stink to high hell. Republicans and Democrats owe allegiance to the Ponzi Scheme which is our Financial and Economic model these days. Both pander to the folks who make the whole thing spin in the first place. They offer YOU carrots, while they line their pockets with YOUR money, with YOUR kids education, with YOUR wife's cancer therapy, and with YOUR nestegg.

This ain't even close to a FreeMarket. It is a scam for the invited, or those who one day hope to be, is this you?

When I say cut taxes J, I mean the type which allow a priceline.com to even exist. CUT the cord to these leeches. YOUR taxes would plumment as a result. Make Dubya's taxcut look like pocket change which it is.

And NO, I have never invested specifically in priceline.com, that I know of. Would it matter either way? NO, the point as it were. ALL of us are participants, like it of not.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 08, 2001.

What qualifies a JBoyd to be worth 5.8 million dollars for being the CEO of priceline.com for 9 months?

Oh I don't know, maybe his prior experience handling the "affairs" of Oxford Health Plans, one of them HMO scams? maybe? click this one

Now of course the real threat to your way of life is the guy smoking crack up the street. That scum steals your buying power, your investments, your future with each toke of that pipe. Never would it be these legitimate, upstanding, suit wearing, golf swinging, cigar smoking, crooks called CEOs and lesser, never.

Seriously, do you think anyone in the linked article saw an hour of jailtime? Ya maybe they did nothing wrong, but please, can we get honest here? Even if they had faced the music, what would they be looking at? some fines which of course would be paid by you and me anyway? In JBoyds case it meant a hefty raise no doubt cause he is SOOO valuable. Course he is worth it(ain't their money anyhow) when the freaking system stinks from head to tail. Seriously, what business owner in this universe would pay an employee as much as probably the other 350 souls COMBINED, which comprise this priceline.com hoax? Anyone even trying to justify this crap is looney toones.

Jeffery H. Boyd

President and Chief Operating Officer Jeffery H. Boyd joined priceline.com in January 2000 as the Executive Vice President and General Counsel. Before joining the company, Mr. Boyd was Executive Vice President and General Counsel for Oxford Health Plans, Inc., where he was responsible for all legal matters affecting the Fortune 500 healthcare company. Prior to Oxford, he was Assistant General Counsel for Lord, Abbett & Co. Mr. Boyd also was a Partner in the private law firm of Robinson & Cole and was an Associate with Sullivan & Cromwell. Mr. Boyd holds a J.D. summa cum laude from Cornell Law School and a B.A. summa cum laude from St. Lawrence University.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 08, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

In this day of rampant litigation, it is prudent for all companies, successful as well as unsuccessful, to spell out any and all perceived risks, so that they cannot later be accused of hiding any of those risks, should they come to fruition, from shareholders. If you let the listed risks in a quarterly report deter you from investing, you wouldn't even buy a money market fund.

That said, I am not defending Priceline.com, or any of the other pie-in-the-sky internet "companies". Their business plans were seriously flawed, and failure was almost assured.

However, your assertion that they only exist to exploit "Stockholders,,,,Taxpayers,,,,and the Customers" is equally flawed, as is your opinion that a CEO is not worth millions. He may or may not be, but your blanket statement that a CEO is not worth millions is wrong.

Again, no stockholder, contrary to your belief otherwise, is forced to buy a stock, even when their assets "are in 401-k type plans". You even admit this yourself when you state that 401-k plans offer "straight cash assets". If a 401-k participant can choose a money market fund, how exactly is it that he is "forced" to buy a mutual fund that owns Priceline.com?

Your attempt to prove that "Taxpayers get reamed" makes no sense at all. I truly can't believe that you have any understanding at all of business, accounting, and taxes, when you write this:

"I would also bet they receive some nice hand-outs in the form of breaks and fancy accounting tricks which create nice write-offs against supposed losses that were profits before the tricks".

Is the company a terrible failure that loses money hand over fist, as you assert, or is it a well-run profitable enterprise that uses "accounting tricks" to avoid paying taxes, as you also assert? You have taken two positions that are contrary to each other.

How is it that when other travel agencies book airline flights, it is legitimate business, but when Priceline.com does it, it is "but WINDOW DRESSING"? How exactly are customers "forced" to buy something from Priceline.com? After all, you say that, "Commerce passes thru priceline.com, Billions. People are paid, goods are sold etc". And then you also say that, "What in the hell does PCLN provide? Nothing, not a damn thing..." Again, you are asserting contrary positions.

As far as your assertion that the system is flawed because no CEO is worth millions, it is also wrong. While Jeffrey H. Boyd may not be worth millions as CEO of Priceline.com, Bill Gates is obviously worth millions to Microsoft, as was Sam Walton to Wal-mart, and Steve Jobs to Apple. How many of today's successful companies would be failures if not for their CEOs? If the market cap of such a successful company is hundreds of millions, or even a billion dollars, is it not obvious that their CEO could be worth millions?

If you look at the facts, you will see that your views in this area are mostly wrong. You can either choose to have an open mind and change your position based on the facts, or you can steadfastly adhere to your beliefs, regardless of how many facts prove your position to be faulty.

Some on this forum (like Doc Paulie ; ) ), claim that the doomers were proficient at this very maneuver. Oh the irony.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 08, 2001.

In this day of rampant litigation, it is prudent for all companies, successful as well as unsuccessful, to spell out any and all perceived risks, so that they cannot later be accused of hiding any of those risks, should they come to fruition, from shareholders. If you let the listed risks in a quarterly report deter you from investing, you wouldn't even buy a money market fund.

Why the Rampant Litigation? Gee cause of MANY these supposed business models are nothing but SCAMS? Could that be it J? Damn freaking right it is why. Why hire JBoyd J? Becuase he understood the Travel Industry? or maybe cause he knows how to dick shareholders, the SEC, and local officials? NOT even debatable. THAT is EXACTLY why a JBOYD was hired and why they gave him almost 6 million dollars of shareholder money.

That said, I am not defending Priceline.com, or any of the other pie- in-the-sky internet "companies". Their business plans were seriously flawed, and failure was almost assured.

Nope you are doing exactly that, defending CROOKS. Course YOU probably are one as well so I can understand why you would do that and add this lame disclaimer. THEY never intended to make a NORMAL TRADE type of profit,,,that is what YOU need to consider(you already know this but want to dick around). Go read their Annuals. These jerks were AMAZED they even had the website traffic they had. Profits? Again, they raved about their TRAFFIC! Why is that important? Because it draws STOCK MARKET INTEREST and the BUCKS that come with said. THAT is what THE PROFIT is using this "business model". You create the NEED(PT Branum), and one can float any manner of offering(AS YOU know J).

However, your assertion that they only exist to exploit "Stockholders,,,,Taxpayers,,,,and the Customers" is equally flawed, as is your opinion that a CEO is not worth millions. He may or may not be, but your blanket statement that a CEO is not worth millions is wrong.

Please do we have to QUALIFY every damn little thing? OK here goes...there is no such thing as Black and White, only GRAY. NOT all CEOs are overpaid. Not all janitors are overpaid. Some house paint is cheap compared to quality, some is a rip-off.

JBoyd is NOT overpaid when one understands his knowledge of dicking the system made many of us insiders a pile of money. He knows how to play the game. He has done it before, and will do it for us. Is THIS better for you J? Again, is JBoyd part of priceline.com becuase he has any travel experience beyond warming a seat on a 747? No, he is there for ONE reason, to help keep the SCAM going.

Again, no stockholder, contrary to your belief otherwise, is forced to buy a stock, even when their assets "are in 401-k type plans". You even admit this yourself when you state that 401-k plans offer "straight cash assets". If a 401-k participant can choose a money market fund, how exactly is it that he is "forced" to buy a mutual fund that owns Priceline.com?

Take a 1% example and extrapolate it into the end-all, stupid and rather boring. YOU know what I mean. Most here understand the set-up, K? so cut the crap.

Your attempt to prove that "Taxpayers get reamed" makes no sense at all. I truly can't believe that you have any understanding at all of business, accounting, and taxes, when you write this:

"I would also bet they receive some nice hand-outs in the form of breaks and fancy accounting tricks which create nice write-offs against supposed losses that were profits before the tricks".

Well where is YOUR proof they are NOT using fancy creative tax and accounting measures to profit? Look I am no tax expert or accountant. What I do know is, and would bet on it, priceline is massaging the books. If I cared, I would present as much in detail and you still would deny it. So what is the use? You would use some other lame rationalization like "they all do it" to justify it as normal. Well Slavery was Normal once, didn't make it right.

Is the company a terrible failure that loses money hand over fist, as you assert, or is it a well-run profitable enterprise that uses "accounting tricks" to avoid paying taxes, as you also assert? You have taken two positions that are contrary to each other.

Not opposed when you clearly understand pcln is a SCAM ( are you even awake J? ). On paper they DO NOT INTEND to ever show a profit. It May well happen, but they could really careless if it does. WHY? Because their business is not even what they are, they are about SCAMMING money out of the aforementioned groups. They are already profiting. If "the business", the "window dressing" should sonehow magically grind-out a positive return, so much the better, but this is hardly their concern, and TELL any who care to read their material as much. Statements I do not find in any LEGITINATE going concern which actually exists to TRADE in a MARKET. Do you see SONY telling their stockholders Hitachi may fuck them out of business in their SEC documents? Or that SONY never again intends to be profitable? This ain't no normal disclosure, it is legal bs to avoid what you said, being sent to JAIL.

How is it that when other travel agencies book airline flights, it is legitimate business, but when Priceline.com does it, it is "but WINDOW DRESSING"? How exactly are customers "forced" to buy something from Priceline.com? After all, you say that, "Commerce passes thru priceline.com, Billions. People are paid, goods are sold etc". And then you also say that, "What in the hell does PCLN provide? Nothing, not a damn thing..." Again, you are asserting contrary positions.

Standing in front of Macy's butt naked and opening doors for people maybe considered a business. Priceline is what is referred to as FAD. Being such, is it not a bit deceptive by default to be floating equities suggesting they are more than this? This IS the problem. Priceline provides(ed) some obvious VALUE to some, no question. However one has to really ask themselves what real sustainable value beyond novelty exists. What really makes them different? When asked, it is clear they are nothing but the first guy at opening a new door is all and CANNOT last. Thus I would rate their investment quality as junk. Is this pcln material for a Fidelity Fund? any of their funds?

If a true investment market existed PCLN would remain on a Vancouver type exchange if that. ChaseMellon would not touch their paper. So why do they? Because they also can make a pile of dough handling the stuff. Does a healthy market allow BIG players profits from passing bogus paper? I think this says loudly we are not even close to a healthy equities market if this is now seemingly the norm. We are in serious do-do if hard-earned retirement money is being exchanged for pieces of worthless paper(exactly what pcln is no matter how reaching you choose J).

As far as your assertion that the system is flawed because no CEO is worth millions, it is also wrong. While Jeffrey H. Boyd may not be worth millions as CEO of Priceline.com, Bill Gates is obviously worth millions to Microsoft, as was Sam Walton to Wal-mart, and Steve Jobs to Apple. How many of today's successful companies would be failures if not for their CEOs? If the market cap of such a successful company is hundreds of millions, or even a billion dollars, is it not obvious that their CEO could be worth millions?

Why is it OBVIOUS? I never said ALL Ceos are not worth what they are paid. However I will not bore others here by telling you the trend has gotten ridiculously out of hand. I would submit it is the huge supply of CAPTIVE investment monies which has caused this situation. Not the only factor, but a significant one.

Again J, do shareholders of FUNDS even get a proxy statement? Your argument that shareholders in retirement fund accounts are making reasoned decisions is ridiculous. YOU know it so please cease using this ridiculous rationalization to indicate some objective choices are being made. Yes technically many DO have a choice, so what, means little in the context.

If you look at the facts, you will see that your views in this area are mostly wrong. You can either choose to have an open mind and change your position based on the facts, or you can steadfastly adhere to your beliefs, regardless of how many facts prove your position to be faulty.

Look in the Mirror, you have written YOUR OWN advice J. Take the blinders off.

Yes I understand YOU J, like the situations. YOU personally profit from them. At least you could admit as much and stop looking the part of a complete jackass trying to convince us this is not what really is. Show some damn respect. WE see thru your "arguments".

Some on this forum (like Doc Paulie ; ) ), claim that the doomers were proficient at this very maneuver. Oh the irony.

Doc believes in the Free Market. YOU apparently do not. You are under the impression what goes on is "just bidness". Well it is. However it is NOT a FreeMarket, so stop claiming it is.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 08, 2001.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 08, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

"Why the Rampant Litigation", you ask? The cynic in me says that it is because that is the only way that trial lawyers get paid. Litigators of class action securities lawsuits are the ambulance chasers of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, in my humble opinion.

Your belief that a flawed business model necessarily constitutes a scam is ludicrous, and you have offered exactly no proof to back up your claim. Furthermore, your assinine assertion that it is "NOT even debatable", makes you look like an utter fool.

Next you resort to calling me a crook. As poor as your arguments are, I should have expected as much.

Here is a helpful tip for you: just because you believe that something is true, that does not make it so. Your belief that Priceline.com (or any other internet company, for that matter) "never intended to make a NORMAL TRADE type of profit" is simply your unsubstantiated belief, and nothing more. That is what you need to realize. Once again, for you make this error many times: your unsubstantiated beliefs are not facts.

After you asserted that people were (and presumably still are) forced to buy internet stocks like Priceline.com, I proved you wrong using your very own words. What follows can only be described as hilarious. These words from you are classic, "YOU know what I mean. Most here understand the set-up K? so cut the crap". What I hope that most here understand is that you baselessly claiming that something is true does not make it true.

All I can say about your next paragraph full of drivel is that your, "Look I am no tax expert or accountant", is dead on the money. The rest of those words make you look incredibly foolish; especially the hilarious, "Well Slavery was Normal once, didn't make it right".

Next you claim that two opposing positions are magically not opposing, if one can only somehow "clearly understand (that) pcln is a SCAM". Does capitalizing "scam" somehow make it easier for one to "clearly understand" your unsubstantiated belief? LOL.

Finally, you seem to get on track. Yes, in my opinion, Priceline.com can be considered a fad.

Then you quickly get off track by writing, "Being such, is it not a bit deceptive by default to be floating equities suggesting they are more than this"?

I don't believe that Priceline.com ever suggested that they were something that they are not. Wasn't it you yourself who said that according to their 10-Q they were "a company with a mile-long list of items which do or could severely impact their ability to even exist"? Once again, you are taking two positions which oppose each other.

I also agree that any "real sustainable value" in their business model is dubious, at best. They were different because they were first, as you say. Your assertion that they could not last, while it proved to be true, is not necessarily so for every internet company. Some will survive. Some may even thrive.

I never claimed that this was a healthy equities market. In fact, earlier in this thread, I wrote, "When Yahoo! had a market cap larger than GM and Sears combined (or some such folly), no Fed chairman (regardless of how many rate cuts), and no President (regardless of his political party), was going to be able to make the day of reckoning caused by that financial abomination any less painful than it has to be". It is good to see that you are finally starting to agree with me. : )

I never claimed "that shareholders in retirement fund accounts are making reasoned decisions". I merely disproved your assertion that they were being "forced" to buy internet stocks like Priceline.com. There is a big difference.

Finally, your, "Show some damn respect. WE see thru your 'arguments' ", is laughable. I have shown your "arguments" to be nothing more than unsubstantiated beliefs". As such, I have shown them exactly the amount of respect that they deserve: none.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 08, 2001.

• PRICELINE COM INC (PCLN)Quarterly Report (SEC form 10-Q)

• TRAVELOCITY COM INC (TVLY)Quarterly Report (SEC form 10-Q)

• Priceline Chart

• Travelocity Chart

• Priceline's Compensation to top officers

• Travelocity's Compensation to top officers

• Priceline's Balance sheet

• Travelocity's Balance sheet

• Priceline Insider activity
• Jay S Walker Priceline.com's Founder

• Travelocity Insider activity

Enough

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 08, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

LOL. A listing of eleven links followed by the word, "Enough". Congratulations, even though eleven links is not an argument, nor does that amount of raw data even begin to prove your assertions, you have managed to avoid saying anything that was contradictory. There may be hope for you, yet. : )

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 09, 2001.

What is the point J? I am attempting to share information. Information which to the average person I think is enlightening. To you this is all boring and merely an attack from what you perceive is some disgruntled former stock holder, on what you think is a relatively honest system. I am claiming otherwise. Rather poorly apparently due to the fact I suck as a writer no doubt.

I think any reasonable person will see problems following the links on this thread.

When one is standing in an airport lobby wondering why their flight is delayed, cancelled, or they have been bumped, it might help them to understand why. Could always be legitimate reasons, like the weather, traffic, and usually is. But how many understand they may just be a victum of a company with goals which just by accident include operating an airline? Or an airport which bends over backwards to please their tenants at the expense of taxpayers who do a significant portion of the airports funding?

How many people work in companys full of incompetent peers? How many go home everyday and wonder what in the hell is management thinking? It as if they could careless about the business. Well the news is, most are operating a completely DIFFERENT business than what you think you are involved with folks.

I think people need to understand there are factors at work in our economy, our nation and world that basically boil down to Capitalism run wild. We have entities which do not produce anything. They contribute little. Their life is one of sucking off the productive. You want to talk about Welfare? we'll them lets talk about the real Welfare problem.

Priceline.com is a product of the LLC, tax code, and investment system. The actual business that priceline is engaged in will always be secondary to the health of these entities and conditions...whatever this quarter the business of Priceline is to justify the suits at the SEC, and the fund managers. Priceline will go the way many of these profit ships go, they will be absorbed by legitimate operators in the field they stuck their stakes into. As always, the taxpayers will be handed yet another bill.

I used the Sabre backed Travelocity as comparison for a reason. Travelocity, while saddled with similar realities as Priceline, is a much more seasoned firm with an actual functioning business and strategies to continue to do what they do...provide travel services. The links are informative I think.

Priceline is backed by largely anonymous "investors" who are probably more interested in getting tax write-offs and a slice of the capitive monies the 401Ks provide. The flashy internet business model, the Shatner jiggle, is the window dressing. The real business of Priceline is not even what most think it is. My opinion of course and you are free to ignore me and eleven links if you choose to do so as you probably have already.

The problem folks like you have J is broadcasted by the Market every bloody day. If, as you claim, the market is mostly legit, how can it be so wrong in valuing a priceline.com? $100 to a buck indicates what to you J? a slight miscalculation by some? In about 10 months pcln went from about 100 down to a buck. In 3 months it went from about 25 to a buck. WHO was slowing this plument? maybe the saps who continue blindly contributing their 6% to their 401k plans? Well if it ain't them, then who in the hell didn't get the NEWS J? and continued to support the trainwreck with fresh buying all the way down?

I don't know but YOU can think this all peachy, I think otherwise.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 09, 2001.

Priceline.com webboard of UNsatisfied customers-800+posts

Yahoo MessageBoard Priceline.com post 1 to 55(hit next 40 and scroll thru the disaster which is this scam Priceline)

Stanford Law School Securities Class Action Clearinghouse

Schiffrin & Barroway Class Action Lawyers, current cases.

Kirby McInerney & Squire current caseload.

Milberg Weiss Bershad Hynes & Lerach caseload.

One might also want refresher courses on MLM amd a thing called a PONZI Scheme in helping one understand what is afoot. From what I am uncovering we have a VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM here. Is this just a Legal system gone haywire? Doubt it.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 09, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

The sharing of information is fine, and I understand what it is that you are trying to claim. What you don't seem to be able to understand is that you are not offering any proof to substantiate your claims. It is not your lack of writing skills, but rather your lack of any credible evidence to establish your claim, that is unconvincing.

I feel that I nicely summed the situation up before when I wrote, "Your belief that a flawed business model necessarily constitutes a scam is ludicrous, and you have offered exactly no proof to back up your claim".

The problems at Priceline.com, no matter how many reams of them you produce, are not necessarily evidence that Priceline.com is a scam. They could quite likely be the result of nothing more than a flawed business model.

You wrote, "We have entities which do not produce anything. They contribute little. Their life is one of sucking off the productive". You are totally correct. Those entities are called "government".

Travelocity may indeed have a better business plan than Priceline.com, but that does not prove that Priceline.com never intended to profit, or that their only intention was to bilk "shareholders, taxpayers, and customers", as you have claimed.

Let me put forth a scenario for you. Travelocity is currently losing money. If they end up going the way of Priceline.com, will that mean that Sabre never intended for Travelocity to make money, and that it was all just an elaborate scam? Or could it rather mean that the people at Sabre took a calculated business risk, but they miscalculated? If the latter, then that begs the question, why is Priceline.com any different? Your argument quickly deteriorates into "any publicly traded business that fails must be a scam". It just is not so.

You wrote, "If, as you claim, the market is mostly legit, how can it be so wrong in valuing a priceline.com"? There are many, many reasons why it can happen. My opinion is that the most influential are peer pressure, crowd psychology, stupidity, and greed. Especially greed.

Feel free to think any way that you choose. Just try to understand that your argument, which is completely devoid of evidence to back up your claim, is not convincing.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 09, 2001.

J, again, no amount of any evidence would convince somebody as stubborn as you. You ARE amazing in fact. You have an EGO issue which is truly mind-boggling.

If one takes a stroll over to the Yahoo link above and starts at post 1 and proceeds one will see, greed, pump and dumping, insanity, and most of all a picture of a majorly broken equities structure financing a simple conjob. A structure which "allowed" a funding of a dubious business concern which named itself priceline.com

If one ventures over to the UNsatisfied users forum one will find basically a story of a company NOT interested in DOING business as most know it. A company which claims to be interested in building repeat customers which does little to back said goal up but pay a washed-up old TV Trekkie millions to do commercials.

If one doubts the stories there, I would suggest you give priceline a DRY RUN yourself. DO NOT enter ANY personal data and end at that point, or ever for that matter while there. At some point you should reach a page provided which gives you a list of "average" prices you can expect PLCN to deliver to you once you fork-over your indentity and credit card number(no guarantees of course). At this point I would suggest you open a second browser window and go directly to the website of the airline or hotel provider you have in mind. See what they can deliver. I did this twice last night and both the hotel and airline were lower than PLCN's estimate and without any real restrictions at all. ALL had time-tested customer service options if conditions should change and thus itinerary needed adjustment, as it almost always does. Why are these offered? Because this IS their BUSINESS.

(We all hopefully understand the concept of a NO REFUND ticket. Priceline is all about said without telling you as much and being intentionally misleading and ridiculously unworkable service by design. The buyer assumes all risk, period, without any compensation as their prices are no different, and I find HIGHER than elsewhere without having to lock oneself into a box.)

Priceline figured they could do it better. Apparently they have not been doing anything much but creating grief for their customers and stockholders alike. A NORMAL business takes actions address and hopefully avoid these business-killing situations going forward. PLCN, like many of these internet upstarts seemingly does not(I would submit cares not and is in fact THE PLAN) understand even the basics of business. Why don't they? Because they are a SCAM is why, not a business.

One of the common retorts one will find defenders of PLCN, and others is this..."People need to read the rules, and be responsible, caveat emptor" Unfortunately NORMAL business is not supposed to be run like a Garage Sale. Any company standing by this philosophy but telling investors otherwise is guilty of FRAUD in my book. This is what one finds is the case with Priceline. Unless of course you are of the J persuasion and think being a Pirate is next to Holiness.

This Caveat Emptor mentality is what was spewed last November with the Presidential Election. "Them dumb-old Jews who can't read the ballot got what they deserved". This attitude is as far as one can get from the olde Boy Scout oath. It is an attitude of a crook, a social outcast, a deviant. Sadly many around these days think it is the highest form of Freedom, it is not.

What you have with PLCN is a group of slicksters who took an old idea, molded it, patented it, and then applied it to a hot medium. A medium which because of the inherent qualities, provides many a huckster many convenient excuses to point fingers at to why things don't work too well. These cover bad practices only for so long. Long enough for the crooks to cash-out,,,PLCN as of today sitting at 7 bucks with falling users numbers.

PLCN IS a model. One spawned in the boiler rooms of yesteryear. A CON JOB. One of many cons one will encounter in the vast anonymous nothingness which is the Internet.

Our rigged financial markets AND the internet have allowed the street- corner conman access to vast numbers of people. NOBODY doubts unfinancied conmen litter the internet. Names like Gary North are all too common online. Mated with a ready pool of dubious Wall Street money, more organized hucksters are able to multiply the hurt to levels never seen before.

Priceline is but one of many conjobs online. Peel away the vaneer and any reasonable person will see a scam. What all these scams share is the attitude that it is YOUR responsibilty to make sure THEY do THEIR job. NO, YOUR money is supposed to do that, and does in mature, balanced and healthy Free Market settings. This is sadly not the case many places anymore beyond the worst of it online. Why does it continue? Because beyond some Lawyers(which they attack endlessly), the farmer is now working for the fox.

According to the J's of the world, we need less Government. Translated this means less oversight of THEM. If it actually meant LESS GOVERNMENT, Ronnie Reagan would be seen not as a God, but as the BIGGEST SPENDER of YOUR money of all time, which he most definitely was.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 09, 2001.

Doc, I'm so glad you're around to make the rest of the world look sane. You present no evidence and then say J is stubborn and has an EGO if he doesn't see it. Too funny!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 09, 2001.

Glad you are laughing.

Humor is about your trueself. Apparently God has chosen to roll his eyes into YOUR world. He is a loving God.

Bye-bye sweetie have to run.

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 09, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

I'll tell you what. You show me some evidence, any evidence, to back up your claims, and I might very well be convinced. As it is, you haven't furthered your point one iota in well over a thousand words.

You do, however, frequently contradict yourself. Most recently, after claiming that Priceline.com is a scam, you wrote (in reference to their business model), "Priceline figured they could do it better".

Which is it? Are they a scam, or did they figure that "they could do it better"?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 09, 2001.

Sheeeez J, you're still here? When are you gonna get a job you redneck piece of trash? What are you doing, hiding in a bunker waiting for the gubmint to come and get you? ROTFL!!

-- (j the paranoid wacko @ hiding out. with his guns), July 09, 2001.

J - remind me not to play chess with you ;)

-- Geography (minor@at.work), July 09, 2001.

Like I have to prove shit to YOU J? A guy who thinks Tim McVeigh not all bad? A man who goose-steps behind a pResident who thinks the "former" head of the KGB trustworthy? Like you could possibly be capable of anything beyond hearing tapes which reinforce your prior programming? I could play you like the carp you most definitely are sir. You are as predictable as the sun coming up tomorrow. YOU are basically the typical dittohead with a militia component. YOU can be heard on any radio any day of the week on a Rush Binbo or Golly North show. Simpletons r Us.

You are under some delusion a TRIAL is going on here and I MUST produce "evidence" for you. You have spent a pile of time here saying the SAME DAMN thing over-and-over(please me show me). You have contributed ZERO. You do at least understand I am NOT the New York Times or the DOJ, don't you? I do not have STAFFS of investigators and million dollar budgets to check and recheck supposed "evidence". This stuff is RAW, ok? The HOLES present, one could drive a semi thru. But also consider there is actually some truth to what I am saying.

JBoyd, what else does one really need to know about Priceline.CONJOB? Again, why was this ATTORNEY with prior Securities Fraud Litigation experience in the exact same state as Priceline hired to be their CEO and paid more than TWICE the combined salaries of Travelocity's CEO, CFO, ExVP staff Attorney, ExVP Sales, and a SR VP? Boyd is paid more than DOUBLE the combined compensation of a entire competiting firm's Management team.

Course to you, failing 100% verifiable evidence to the contrary, see all this as bidness. Fact the man has ZERO AIRLINE or INTERNET experience running squat doesn't seem to matter. Well you J are a blind fool if you think JBoyd was hired to do but one thing...keep the scam going, sorry, "business".

Toss JBoyd on the other piles of information I have presented and, at least to me, PCLN is a major scam.

What are you defending J? in your trial?

-- (bushandclinton@twofaced.scum), July 10, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

You do not have to prove anything to me, which is a good thing for you, because you cannot prove anything, period.

Your "argument" on this thread shows you to be nothing more than a hypocritical, contradictory, whining, rambling, know-nothing, windbag. You are so out of it that you think that you could play me! Here's a little hint for you, Doc. With every exchange on this thread, more on this forum have come to see your "argument" for what it really is: the rambling delusions of a very confused man.

I have refuted almost everything that you have tried to assert. Your "argument" is in shambles; it is crumbling down upon your head, and yet you still stubbornly cling to that which you believe. What was it about which Doc Paulie used to constantly drool? Oh yes, now I remember: the MEME! The irony is so very delicious.

You just keep on believing whatever it is that you want to believe, the facts notwithstanding, of course. Just watch out for the space aliens that cut that deal with Bush. Remember, they delivered the higher energy prices that got Bush elected, and in return, they get all registered Democrats as a food source.

LOL.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), July 10, 2001.

It's amazing how there is an almost daily affirmation that Bush is going to be a one-term loser. Now it seems that there is some infighting going on within his cabinet over the "faith based initiatives".

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 10, 2001.

Bemused, I think that depends on who the opponent is. What does the Democratic party have to offer? Gore?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 10, 2001.

Heh. A L M O S T A N Y O N E.

I think Jenna Could beat him in '04.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 10, 2001.

There was a list posted somewhere about who the Democratic Party MIGHT consider in 2004. Of course this is still conjecture:

1) Tom Daschle

2) Joe Biden

3) Rich Gephardt

4) John Edwards

5) John Kerry

6) Pat Leahy

7) Joe Lieberman

8) Chris Dodd

9) Russ Feingold

10) Al Gore

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 10, 2001.

What, no Kennedy? ;)

Bemused (if you're still watching) which one of those would you pick over Bush?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 11, 2001.

Call me a numbskull, But I'd pick Gore.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 11, 2001.

I think Daschle thinks he's going to be the next president, though. It seems like I can't pick up a newspaper without seeing his name. For example, today he was quoted blasting Bush for the Salvation Army/anti-gay thing, which does have to go down as the dumbest thing Bush has been associated with yet.

But his term is still young, we all know he'll top it. ;^)

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), July 11, 2001.

I wouldn't call you a numbskull. :)

Hmmmm. It would be interesting to see Lieberman vs Gore in the primary. I wonder who Gore would pick for running mate. Does your choice imply that Gore would win?

Daschle (IMHO) wouldn't go very far, unless he performs some miracles in the next couple of years. He stricks me as something lower than ambulance chasers.

If the "anti-gay" thing is the dumbest Bush has done so far, I'd say that's pretty good. Thinking back to Clinton's first months in office, he couldn't get anything done and completely backpedaled on the gays in the military thing. (But you knew I'd have that point of view.)

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), July 11, 2001.

"He stricks me as something lower than ambulance chasers."

And you strick me as an imbecile.

-- (repugliscum maria @ dumber. than mud), July 11, 2001.

Bemused: I'm not so sure that some people here follow politics. The Salvation Army is suggesting that state and local ordinances be repealed by a Federal mandate suggesting that they be repealed. It doesn't look to me like the SA is fond of the concept of state [and local] rulings when it may not coincide with THEIR goals.

Goals of the SA

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 11, 2001.

Tom Daschle, although I find him somewhat attractive in terms of his policy goals, is not a viable candidate for the simple reason that he comes from MUCH TOO SMALL a state, in MUCH TOO SPARSELY populated a region, with WAY TOO FEW rich people.

Presidents come from states with at least 5% of the electoral college vote. Simple truth. Calvin Coolidge was probably the last exception to this rule.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 11, 2001.