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Monday July 2 4:47 PM ET

U.S. Teens Struggle With History

By SONJA BARISIC, Associated Press Writer

NORFOLK, Va. (AP) - One in five American teen-agers doesn't know the answer to this grade-school history question: From what country did America declare its independence?

Twenty-two percent of those who responded to the survey commissioned by the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation did not know the answer was England. Fourteen percent thought it was France.

``When you look at these numbers, it means that more than 5 million U.S. teen-agers don't understand the true meaning of Independence Day,'' said Colin Campbell, president of the foundation that runs Colonial Williamsburg, the restored 18th-century capital.

The nationwide telephone survey of 1,020 youngsters ages 12 to 17 was conducted May 31 to June 5 and has a margin of error was plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Nearly all those surveyed knew that Washington, D.C., is the U.S. capital and that George W. Bush is president. However:

-One in 10 did not know George Washington was the first president.

-17 percent did not know there were 13 original colonies.

-15 percent did not know the Continental Congress adopted the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776.

-Nearly one in four did not know who fought in the Civil War; 13 percent thought it was the United States and England.

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On the Net:

Colonial Williamsburg: http://www.history.org

-- Tidbit (of@the.day), July 03, 2001

Answers

On the surface this may not strike you as a big problem but it should. Our country is under siege right now by ‘special interest’ groups who lobby for legislation that constantly lowers our educational standards. Here in California, we are seeing public schools graduating students from high school that would not have gotten past the 7th or 8th grade 30 years ago.

This ‘dumbing down’ trend has resulted in an exodus from the public school system by parents who can afford to send their children to a private institution. If we allow this to continue, the gap between the classes will become so wide that we will become a nation of a few ‘haves’ and a majority of ‘have nothings’.

The uneducated masses will become disenchanted with their status in life and the result will not be pretty. They will become more and more dependent on social support programs and the Democrats will pander themselves as the ‘champions of the underdog’. Guess who will have to pay for this?

The public school systems made this country great and they can destroy us as well.

-- So (cr@t.es), July 03, 2001.

My skul has OBE. It is very good. No one ever flunks.

What is "history"?

-- (Mimssie@Twirler.camp), July 03, 2001.

"The nationwide telephone survey of 1,020 youngsters ages 12 to 17 was conducted May 31 to June 5 and has a margin of error was plus or minus 3 percentage points."

First point: you can toss that "plus or minus 3 percentage points" into the garbage can.

The temptation for a bored kid to screw up some phone survey by playing stupid would be overwhelming. I'm sure this tendency was compensated for by the surveyors (unless they like to waste their time), but YOU try detecting lies over the phone with a plus or minus 3 percent accuracy. If you can do it, you are worth your weight in gold.

Next point: even if you take the numbers in this survey as utterly reliable, try reversing the percentages and see how dire it sounds. 90% knew George Washington was the first president. 83% knew there were 13 original colonies. And so on.

Last point: this survey reflects the common idiocy that knowing individual historic facts means you know history.

Looking at a pile of iron filings can't tell you about magnetism. But apply a magnet and the pattern they disclose can tell you about magnetism. Historic facts are like individual iron filings. The sequence of history is like the magnetic pattern those facts fall into. The real object in studying history is to learn about the forces that create the patterns.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 03, 2001.

Well, Nipper, if you do not know the "who" or "when" or "what" or "where," it is highly unlikely you understand the "why" or "how." The vast majority of Americans cannot articulate a single theory of history. Let's ask 1000 high school seniors a rather simple question: How did Marx turn Hegel "on his head?" I imagine most would guess that Marx and Hegel are professional wrestlers, not philosophers. There, in a nutshell, is the state of modern American education.

-- Jose Ortega y Gasset (j_ortega_y_gasset@hotmail.com), July 03, 2001.

Jose,

The way you put that it sounds like Marx and Hegel could have been two of the Three Stooges! LOL

:)

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), July 03, 2001.

...if you do not know the "who" or "when" or "what" or "where," it is highly unlikely you understand the "why" or "how.

I agree. To return to my iron filings metaphor. If you have too few iron filings, nothing much is revealed by the magnet. If you don't have any historic facts at your disposal, you won't know any history. No dispute over that. You are as right as right can be.

But I would also argue that it is fairly unimportant whether the DOI was signed on July 4 or February 22, as one fact in isolation. The date only gains meaning insofar as it establishes where it falls in the sequence of events -- the order and development of those events is far more important than the actual dates.

The same is true of the exact number of colonies. The importance of the American Revolution would not be any different if there had been 11 colonies or 16. Or if George Washington had been named Thomas Nelson. Or had been three years younger.

There would be no sense in making up the facts of history as you went along, as some prof was recently caught doing. It's the facts that keep you honest and rigorous.

But there is equally no sense in stressing the smaller details when you teach the subject matter, either. Teachers who linger on that level aren't teaching history, and students who are taught at that level quickly learn that history is a bunch of useless facts and wander away unimpressed.

Adults who insist on their kids coming away with a handful of "hard historical facts" like 13 colonies and July 4, 1776, are just begging for kids who grow up ignorant of history and its meaning.

I favor the "Plutarch" school of history for young people - tell them inspiring stories that happen to be true. Give it some life. Light a spark. Then turn them loose in a library.

Oddly enough, Parson Weems agreed with me and it was his approach that schools took in the good old days of three Rs and McGuffy's Reader. Too bad the Good Parson fibbed so much. He could have been just as successful using the facts.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), July 03, 2001.

Well, Barry, MY family is just the opposite of what you see in California. *I* was educated in those public schools 30 years ago and [although I knew the answers to the questions asked], I'd never had ANY interest in the study of history until I reached the University level. I found it very boring to memorize the facts/dates presented. It all came "alive" when I had the History teacher at University who whetted my pallet and suggested outside readings.

My kids [also public school educated] took an interest in History early on. For some reason, they love it, and run rings around me in that subject.

I still think public education is a local thing regarding whether it works or not. I'd even go so far as to suggest that it's teacher dependent.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 04, 2001.

This is not far off from the truth. Have heard the only way that kids know the dates for Korea and Vietnam is because "MASH" came before "Apocalypse Now" or some such rubbish. Our son's textbook for 7th grade included one paragraph on the entire Johnson Administration. With a single question/answer followup at the end of the chapter for class discussion: Was LBJ a "Hawk" or a "Dove"? Methinks the Textbook Cabal are at a complete loss as to how to present the "60's" at all. God Help America...

-- William Wallace (braveheart@highlands.com), July 05, 2001.

The difference between a public and private education, Anita:

Pallet: 1 : a straw-filled tick or mattress 2 : a small, hard, or temporary bed

Palate

1 : the roof of the mouth separating the mouth from the nasal cavity 2 a : a usually intellectual taste or liking b : the sense of taste

-- Private (education@better.com), July 05, 2001.

Oops! I should have checked that one before posting.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 05, 2001.

OTOH, are you going to denigrate all the posters who claim they had private educations and still can't differentiate between there, their, and they're? How about the same people who confuse your and you're? These words are more frequently used.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), July 05, 2001.

Jose,

Let's ask 1000 high school seniors a rather simple question: How did Marx turn Hegel "on his head?"

Did you know the answer to this question when you were in high school, or did you discover it later in life?

Just curious. No high school class I ever attended discussed this. To you it may seem simple today, but did you know the answer in high school?

-- SteveOH (sroors@aol.com), July 05, 2001.

BTW, I would have guessed Zeppo.

-- SteveOH (sroors@aol.com), July 05, 2001.