Homesteaders Indignation (Forum Related)

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Hi everyone. Growing up in this country of ours, Mostly small farms, Lots of hard working people. We had a feeling of patriotism, liveing in a country who"s motto,on our currancy said in God we trust. Free to go to any church we felt like. This country is made up of all kinds folks, some religious and some not. Our young men went off to war and died for these freedoms. The homestead forum is made up of all kinds, And all in all there"s not to much Christian material on the forum. And should we be deleated just because it is a little controversial? Homesteaders got a real handle on life, and I believe we really like to get our two cents in now and then. I believe we must fight to keep freedom of speech, and I was sitting in my garden, weeding in the hot sun, when I was thinking about this, as I had seen a Post deleated. I just subsribed to your magazine, and I love all the folks here, so take care you all. Irene

-- Irene texas (tkorsborn@cs.com), June 20, 2001

Answers

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I just sent in a 3 year subscription a couple of months ago but I'm about to ask for my money back. If my views cannot be expressed on this forum just because I say I'm a Christian then they do not need my money!

-- Deena in GA (dsmj55@aol.com), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

It seems we get a little "hot" about the things that matter most. We have moved into a pluralistic society where everything is OK as long as it doesn't offend anyone. The problem with our society is that when we talk about religion someone gets offended. Yes, I am a Christian - I believe it is the way to God the Father, but I hope that I am open enough to listen to other views and let others express their thoughts.

I thought that the homestead philosphy is one that a Christian, Taoist, Buddist, or anything else can fit in. Doesn't the philosphy say that "It is not one idea". If I see God working through the way I raise my chickens, geese, turkeys, rabbits, or garden shouldn't I be allowed to express that and not be deleated?

We have no right to cut others down - but we should be able to openly express views on homesteading. And in my case anyway, that includes how God is active in daily life of feeding and careing for the homestead.

-- Tom S. (trdsshepard@yahoo.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Let’s please not start the freedom of speech speeches again...

I deleted a post this morning that I found had nothing to do with homesteading, Countryside, or this forum.

The post came from Hoot. The post was not deleted because it contained a reference to Christ, but because I didn’t see how that particular post provided a direct contribution to even the spiritual aspects of homesteading. I’m sorry if anyone feels persecuted because I deleted a post that happened to contain “Christian material”, but notice too, that others often seem to thrive on the notion of being the underdog.

Hoot’s post was not deleted due to the content, but rather a lack of. Maybe it’s time to reread the message you’ll find when you click “ask a question” found at the top of the page.

-- Dave (dbelanger@tds.net), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Dave, you the man! Your magazine, your choice.

My spending money, my choice. I already chose not to renew my subscription, (during the last ho-hum freedom of speech thingy..) thanks for the confirmation....I love making good choices!!!

Backwoods Home Magazine....Here WE come!! Bye Y'all and GOD BLESS!

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

"Let’s please not start the freedom of speech speeches again". I won't be renewing my subscription. Good luck to you Dave.

-- Daryll in NW FLA (twincrk@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Try the Beyond the Sidewalks forum. You can discuss ANYTHING there. You can't preach, but you can discuss.

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

"Please don't start the freedom of speech speeches again"?

Dave, you own this board and I have always understood your right to censure whatever you want. I put up the !!!ATTENTION!!! notices so that people would be aware of just who and what was being censured. I never argued w/ your right to do it, or the "free speech issue. More of a question of WHO is being deleted. EVERYONE knows where Hoot's heart is. I felt it was important for folks to be aware and make up there own mind on this one. Things got deleted so fast, most would never know this event even occured.

I did read the offending message BTW, it was as relavent as any of Hoot's messages and totally in keeping w/ what he has always written. Why did you bother to give him his own special place and then not allow him to share that "Wisdom from old Hoot"? One would think that having your own area of the forum would give a guy a little "elbow Room" so to speak. I'm having trouble believing this posting was deleted due to it's "Lack of content".

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Dave, take a look at one of thread titles "local radio contest-win breast implants"...WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HOMESTEADING?????? Have you chosen to delete that one??? NO. Please explain why Hoots post was ok to delete and not the one refered too.

-- juliemarae (dabanks@harbornet.net), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

What is the web site for beyond the side walks forum?Irene

-- Irene Orsborn (tkorsborn@cs.com), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

One last word on this matter before I go.

Dave, Thankyou for accepting personal responsibility for the deletion of Hoots posting. I sincerely mean that. Not everyone will assume that responsibility when they make a decision.

I don't agree w/ your making a special place for a fellow and then yanking the rug out from under him, but I do appreciate your owning up to it and giving us all a look at what's to come for CS.

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.



Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I started reading CS about ten years ago. My first magazine was a send off for a free one. I fell in love. It was wonderful to know there was other people out there like me who just wanted to live a self sustaining simple life . When I got my computer back in January, the first place I went was CS, and was thrilled to find this forum. I recognized names from the magazine and thought that was cool. I still think CS is a great mag and this has the potential to be a very good forum but can't yal just be good. I love getting advice and learning new things that makes my life at home sweeter, healthier more productive. I'm glad yal love God we all need that connection, but isn't that personal. I bet this internet is full of religion and political sites go there and talk about that , then come back here and learn about worms, goats, canning and other homesteading subjects. Thanks for a great way to learn about this wonderful homesteading life we have chosen. Sherry r

-- sherry (chickadee259@yahoo.com), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Click on Lusenet at the top of the page. It will give you links for Beyond the Sidewalks and Freedom! Good homesteading folk on both.

-- not saying (someone@somewhere.com), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I knew this was comming because I read the posts this morning and they were pushing the limit and over the line by far. People broke the rules this morning with their posting and it wasn't just one. It seems that some people are on the warpath for some reason. They stir up trouble here and then run back to their forums and get all upset about it and then everyone has to come over here and blast away. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Everybody keeps saying that "other" religions can be pushed on here and it's ok. Well, that's not true, NO ONE has been pushing their religion on the forum except this kind. I have NOT seen 7 threads a week on pagans, or wiccas, or whatever. Where are they pushing it? I've been on here every day for a very, very long time, and other religions are NOT pushed here! Show me where they are. Let's be fair about this and be honest!

Why can't we just be a homesteading forum and respect the wishes of the editor. I am a Christian, and a homesteader. The difference with me is I respect Dave and Ken for all their work, and for the vast amount of information I have learned from the magizine AND on here. Dave said no pushing it. I knew that thread was pushing it when I read it today, that's why I did not answer. I just stick to the homesteading questions anymore. Talking about our beliefs is not the same as pushing it. Let it go and quit running to all the other forums and talking about it. Dave made the rules very clear. Please don't ruin it for the rest of us who enjoy this forum, and enjoy helping others find this way of life.

-- Cindy in KY (solid_rock_ranch@yahoo.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Maybe I could get a list of religious forums (any and all religions) so that I can go there every day and talk about gardening, butchering rabbits and skinning trout. I suspect the regular readers of these forums will start complaining pretty quickly. That's OK, I'll just keep posting and complain about censorship and homesteader bashing.

Why is it so tough for some people to understand that it's not about freedom of speech, it's about what is appropriate for THIS forum, as decided by the people who run it. The Constitution (or any other set of ideals) never said anybody could talk about anything they wanted to whenever and wherever they wish.

Dave, I happen to be among those who thing you are doing a fine job. I mentioned to JD long ago that you have to either keep a forum on topic or it will soon stop having any relevant posts. My subscription has lapsed, but I'll renew it to help make up for at least one of those who chose to leave.

==>paul

-- paul (p@ledgewood-consulting.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Hmmmmm.Guess it's time to check out "Beyond the Sidewalks".I have a hard time seperating my Christian walk from my homesteading life. I do believe both the forum and the magazine have taken a wrong turn. And no,I won't be cancelling my subscription yet.Just won't look forward,as much,to getting it every other month.

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

My reaction is the same as Cindy's. The rules were clear and I am still very confused as to why people are going over the edge over this. I read the deleted post of Hoot's with my morning coffee, as I frequently do with Hoot's posts, and thought, wow.......why is he doing this. It seemed so blatant. Unlike many others, I have continued to participate here because I LOVE HOMESTEADING!!!! I like to talk with others who do and I like to feel helpful when I can and helped when I need it. I am a Christian Homesteader, but my witness does not require me to jam it down anyones throat or to break a clearly stated rule of this forum. There are other forums, as has been stated before, where issues can be discussed that the moderator of this forum would rather not have discussed here. Hoot was honored by this forum and the moderators and he overstepped their trust. I am very disappointed in him. As many others have, I have enjoyed his yarns and if he decides to stop posting I will miss them.

I can not remember in my life time (and by the way I am OLDER than old hoot) so many adults acting so incredably childish as I have seen here today. Good grief!!! We have so much in common, can't we just all get along???

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Hey Dave, I'm behind you 100%. I'm a christian homesteader myself and I would have to agree with Cindy, Paul, etc. I've been a member of some other forums (christian forum, bow hunting forum) and believe me a lot of the people aren't even on there for original purpose. I logged onto a christian forum and there were people on their that were just plainly using it just to communicate with each other to save on their phone bill. There talk didn't even have anything to do with any kind of religion at all! I logged onto a bowhunters forum, and there were people using it to meet sex partners. So I'm in a agreement with Dave. I think the purpose of this forum needs to be controlled, or soon it may not be worth our time to log on it also.

-- Russell Hays (rhays@sstelco.com), June 20, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Cindy, Diane, Paul----Bravo! Bravo! and Amen.

And THANKS DAVE and Ken for your work on this VALUABLE forum.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), June 20, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I said this afternoon, that I was leaving and I am. I came over here to see the reaction to this whole debacle. There are a lot of people here asking why we are so upset. "The rules were clear" you say. I say that is not true. About two months ago the rules got changed. I have been posting on this forum off and on (mostly on) for 2 years. Someone said that this forum had grown, well it grew because quite of few of us spent a lot of time and effort to make it so. It certainly wasn't because CS was extremely involved in it. In fact they were pretty hands off until recently. Up until recently we all posted about whatever we needed to get off our chest. The former person in charge recognized that just because something isn't directly about homesteading, doesn't mean that it doesn't affect homesteaders. I for one, truly appreciated that, and I posted about that appreciation many times. This forum was built on the backs of christians and non- christians alike, who wanted to share their lives with one another. Dave I am sorry that you don't understand the problem, but ultimately free speech is important. I am a homesteader. I am a Christian. what happens next? Will you soon remove those who use pesticides. Or how about those who disagree over what kind of goats to milk. There are reasons for free speech. Throughout the world over the course of history, there have been men who didn't want to hear other opinions than their own. As Wendy said, this is your mag, but why choose one or two groups to discriminate against? This is discrimination, you know. Someone said this forum had been invaded by the Christian right. I say we were here all the time, and standing for exactly the same things we are standing for today. Many of you that posted came here after me. There was a wise man who left several months ago that warned me to watch my back. His name was Joel Rosen. He was right. Joel, if you are out there, Thank you. I came to this forum because I loved the mag. I'm leaving because somewhere in all of this greatness has been lost. We all have lost the ability to share all of ourselves with each other. There are some, including our forum maintainer, who feel that in order to understand one another we all have to agree. There are some, who only want to here their own side of any question. So both in our society and now in our forum they find their solution in sterilization. If you don't like it just get rid of it. It amazes me how Countryside, an arm of the media, feels that they have a right to free speech, but their readers do not. Dave you can probably say, it's my mag I'll do whatever I want. But free speech is not just the law given in the Bill of Rights, it comes down to basic human dignity. If you keep free speech for yourself, but deny it to others, then you must accept it when it is lost in the future to you also. Free speech is something you live, and something you preserve for future generations. If we cannot trust the very keepers of free speech (the media) to uphold it, then how can we expect to keep it. The answer is we can't. Free speech is not the right to hear only what makes you happy. Free speech is the right to say whatever is in your heart. When you hold a public forum within your realm of responsibility, and you deny some the right to speak, then you let all of us down. All of you who stay and support this forum need to remember that all of us stood for your right to free speech. When you lose it and they take your venue away then you will know how we feel. There are religious forums and political forums out there, but none of them could or will ever replace what this forum was. This forum at its best was a place where all things could be discussed and shared about. It was a place where people in trouble could ask for help and even prayer. It was a place where our views on politics could be shared and although we didn't agree something was learned by all, and all of the homesteaders learned from one another. It was a place where although many disagreed, they all had respect. It was a place where homesteading was about more than just keeping animals, and raising a garden. It was about true community, just like at the country store. When you go to the country store, nobody is censored. When you came to countryside, all were accepted, maybe not agreed with, but all were accepted. I will truly miss that, and I am so sorry to see that die, because someone just couldn't stand not to leave well enough alone.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little Bit Farm (littleBit@compworldnet.com), June 21, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I am not leaving,nor am I cancelling my subscription. Whether or not I agree or disagree with the "rules" means nothing as I am a guest here. I've enjoyed Hoot's postas just as I've enjoyed many others posts. If he leaves, I will miss him. But, that is his decision. Now, lets discuss something relevant to our lifestyles. God bless!

-- Ardie from WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), June 21, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

maybe we should take a look at who was posting from the very beginning , who made this forum grow .Sorry it wasn't the folks at CS .It was all the great folks who where here from the beginning with there great advice .Do you guys know how many are still here ? Not alot , every wonder why ?

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), June 21, 2001.

Response to Homesteaders Indignation

Little Bit,

Our Savior was a servant-leader. When people were hungry-he fed them. When they were sick-he healed them. He practiced love and none judgment (except regarding those who judged) I have read the new testament hundreds of times and I see no where that he talked about His RIGHTS. There have been lots of references to our Christian heritage on posts since the new rules were set out. We have talked of praying for people and other such things in the course of our talking about HOMESTEAD issues. Those posts have not been deleted. In your recent absence this forum went on as it was intended.........just homesteaders communicating, helping and loving each other. It did the same while I was gone. Lesley, a wonderful woman of virture and wisdom, started a Christian forum so all issues could be discussed in a Christian context. Doreen started a more politically oriented forum and Jim a more eclectic one. It has consistantly been people who are unwilling to follow any rules that they don't make that have caused problems here. I am truly hoping that this will blow over and we can all continue to SERVE each other in a kind and gentle way. Blessings to you and all who have so many rights.....I chose love.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), June 21, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

i'm probably one of the ones who overstepped the rules because i love learning other's beliefs/points of view...ALL of them. ALL religions, and how it relates to homesteading. I get miffed by true preaching, but also by oversensitivy (is that a word?) to the views of others.

the little "pages" at the end of postings are political. i read one here today about the view that hunting in your local area is better for the environment than is vegetarians who get all their food in the store. when i used to by a psycho, militant vegetarian, i would have been so horribly offended by that. i've learned to lighten up over the years.

still we all need to be more respectful of others. freedom of speech. sorry, but you don't have that freedom here. that is to say what you want on YOUR board, to your friends. Even a newspaper prints the words they want and the slant they want. they can print what they want under "freedom of speech" but you can't say whatever you want there unless they want you to do so.

as far as subscriptions? after all these years i've finally ordered up two years to countryside at one time to not have the hassle of renewing every year. the bill arrived yesterday. this forum is one of the reasons why i am so glad to have renewed! i can't imagine ever NOT getting it!

also, i think the content is still just as great even with the passing of the hat with the editor. thanks for the great work countryside.

-- marcee king (thathope@mwt.net), June 21, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I applaud CS for drawing the line and moderating this group. There are hundreds of free forums to discuss religious issues -- but very few to discuss homesteading. I've participated in many groups over the years that went offtopic -- and it always starts gradually. Once they go off topic, you have to wade through lots of "stuff" -- from porn ads to people ranting about the end of the world (always the same messages over and over again too)-- to get to anything useful. As this happens, folks with useful things to contribute stop following the newsgroup and it becomes even less useful. Eventually, the group dies out, left to the spammers, wackos, and preachers -- but no genuine readers. I don't want this to happen here.

The bottom line is that CS is a business. This group is an extension of that business that costs money to operate - server space is very costly. It is also a FREE public service to people interested in homesteading, whether you subscribe or not. If that server space gets eaten up by offtopic messages, then CS is wasting its money. Broadcast tv, newspapers, and radio must limit the messages they broadcast; why should this group be any different?

Furthermore, what would be the response of all the Christians here if a Pagan, Wiccan, or Satanist, started posted daily "musings" about the needs to raise goats for sacrifice or prepare for the coming Anticrist? I would bet that most of you would be more than happy to see those messages deleted -- and none of you would voice a single word about censorship. In fact, you would roast CS for not controlling such "trash" -- though it is the exact same type of protected free speech that many people on this group are ranting about now.

For those of you who want a Christian Homesteading group, you can go to Yahoo Groups and start one for free. It will take you all of ten minutes to do so. Doing so would meet your needs while maintaining the integrity of this one. Is there anyone devoted enough to this topic to make this happen???

-- Michael Nuckols (nuckolsm@wildak.net), June 21, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

well, I doubt that my input is that important, as every viewpoint possible has already been presented quite well on here. But I would like to stand up and be counted in my stance on this issue. I am a very conservative christian. I do believe to the soles of my shoes that Jesus is returning soon, and those who do not believe in Him, will be lost.

But I also respect the rights of those who own this magazine, to restrict what they wish to publish, whether online or on paper. I would not stomp into the Countryside magazine offices and demand that they publish anything that I think they should. That would not only be stupid, but also rather un-Christ-like. I do love talking to others about my faith, but I recognise that I have to be careful not to cast my pearls before those who will not respect them and will turn to attack me personally.

Hoot, I know you are reading this. I have enjoyed your posts greatly. I will look for you on the Christian forum.

Little Bit, please, take Jesus' yoke upon you, and learn of Him, for He is MEEK and lowly. This makes His yoke easy and His burden light. Take His attitude who when He was rejected, did not retaliate or fight, but remained gentle and kind. We as Christians need to remember more WHO we represent, than WHAT we stand for.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), June 21, 2001.


Response to Homesteaders Indignation

I have enjoyed the "READER WRITTEN" Countryside magazine for a number of years but due to the recent changes and the new leadership of the magazine, I WILL NOT be renewing my subscription. I am quite upset in the censoring of Hoot's contributions. I saw several articles by Ken S. in the newest CS Magazine, perhaps you should just put him on the payroll and call it "Ken's magazine". Not likely you will get too many good contributors the way things are going. Perhaps, Dave, you should take notice??????? I also say "Backwoods Home here I come!!!"

-- bwilliams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), June 21, 2001.

COUNTRYSIDE NOW AND FOREVER! Thats my vote.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), June 21, 2001.

Also agree with Cindy,Paul and Diane and think your doing a fine job Dave. Some say that Dave and Ken are censoring and that we used to be able to post about sharing our lives and whatever we needed to get off our chest. I read the censored post from Hoot and some of the responses and the post was not a personal experience, but a very personal QUESTION to people on the forum. I enjoyed Hoots others posts, but do not believe I have to prove my faith to Hoot or this forum. Keep up the good work, guys.

-- Annie (mistletoe@kconline.com), June 21, 2001.

Ya, well I'm still trying to figure out what indignation means! :) Lighten up everbody, be happy!

cheers,

-- Max (Maxel@inwindsor.com), June 22, 2001.


So....shall we get on with life?

-- Ardie from WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), June 22, 2001.

Lots of work to do outdoors.

-- sheepish (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), June 22, 2001.

I agree, lots of work to do. Far too much to waste my time writing stuff that might just get deleted anyway.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), June 22, 2001.

Rebekah, you are one of the folks that I've learned a lot from! I remember when you told me how to castrate lambs! Boy, that's been a while! *sigh*

-- sheepish (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), June 22, 2001.

Dave -

How much of your father's stuff would you delete were he to post some of his writings here? He is well known for his political views, and has written some very nice and OPENLY PUBLISHED views on religious topics. You should be ashamed of yourself!! You should go get your own switch... And this comes from a Pagan!!

First it was politics... But then homesteading is ruled by the politicians. It is unfortunate but true, that we have to live with the laws of men who don't live our lifestyle. Then it was Paganism which started a little war here - an effort was made to 'institute' peace. It also failed before the enter key was even let up. There always have been and always will be religious dissention among humans. Fact of life. Now its the Christians??? Come on. Its not a religious issue... Its a stupidity issue.

Hoots' posts are always informative, usually about the way things USED to be on the old homestead, telling us of our history, of little humerous anectdotes, how things were handled... So what if he preaches a little?? So what if he quotes the Bible?? So what if he wants to make the world a better place, help others along his path, or whatever??

Why do you bother with categories for politics and religion if we aren't allowed to express those things? If homesteading is a way of life, then our living of it should be expressed. Your job as a moderator would be infinately easier were you to simply archive what has been said instead of inflicting and enforcing your personal views into everything. If WE - who actually USE, BENEFIT from and AUTHOR these posts can't even argue, then what good is all the information here anyway? No one can have another view. No one is allowed to get angry. Nobody should ever ever be offended. Ha. Try life in the real world, where saying good morning to the wrong person will get you shot.

If YOU were WRITING this information, then it would be different. Fortunate for you that publication on the web isn't indicative of an express copyright... Though.... if you can write something, send it in the mail to yourself, and use it in court as a 'poor man's copyright' (Which IS still legal), then you could be on shakey ground. You usually can't be bothered with posting anything, just with deleting it. How sad. Many people are going to miss out on a great deal of information and even friendship just because one or two people decided they have the moral obligation to 'correct' the miscreants of our forum. Too bad. This time you've lost me, too... And I was the ONE person who always tried to tell folks to stay and not let your ignorance cheat others of much needed help and information.

Sorry Ken... I tried. But, some people like me can only take so much before we give up the ghost. I will miss you, and would like to thank you again for the e book. It has been a WONDERFUL source of inspiration - and I've even been able to use it to help out some community projects!! People who are more interested in the bottom line than in other people will soon learn that it is those other people who feed that bottom line. You, and the community, I will miss greatly.

Fortunately, I don't have to ask for a refund. I was one of those who bought into all the hype about supporting my local businesses and then got screwed when you (Dave) stopped selling to them. Go figure.

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), June 22, 2001.


Sue:

You have plenty of other forums to choose from. Have at 'em.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), June 22, 2001.


I am sorry Ken but you seem not to care if good people are upset and leaving .This is not the way it used to be .I'll say it again , have you guys wondered where alot of us have gone or why we don't post alot ?

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), June 22, 2001.

I don't know how to say this but if you check other locations you will find certain people bragging about how they mess with countryside by baiting and raising hell for postings they posted knowing full well it would be deleated. cute game!!!!!

-- m. DeVill (obviousman@yahoo.com), June 22, 2001.

Patty:

Yes, I was short with Sue. Her last paragraph upset me when she accused Dave of shafting everyone who bought through a magazine rack. She apparently missed Dave's explanation their distributor hadn't paid them a cent in ten months, which took a rather healthy chunk out of their revenue. They printed extra copies for distribution (at their expense) and weren't getting a cent in return. It doesn't make good business sense to continue doing so. Dave did find another distributor (an almost impossible task for a limited distribution publication) who agreed to again stock it, so a total of one issue didn't appear on the racks.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), June 22, 2001.


And I quote:

"I also knew it would cause problems but that's not my battle. Witnessing IS my job."

M DeVill is right like I've said before. This is a game, to see just how far it can be pushed. And as a Christian, I have to say it isn't funny anymore, it's causing allot of people to get upset for no good reason. The person in question said on another forum HE wasn't cancelling HIS subcription. Has he said that here? Allot might get mad at me for posting this but it's the truth. If CS lets one faith WITNESS they will have to let them ALL. Is that what you want for this forum? It will turn into a battleground!

-- Cindy in KY (solid_rock_ranch@yahoo.com), June 23, 2001.


I will gladley listen{read} and respect everyones religion or hit the back button .For many there religion is as part of them as an arm or leg .I think the problem arises with respect and tolerance , which sorry to say is failing everywhere .We need to understand others views and beliefs and live and let live .Don't we all have more important things to do ? If it doesn't interest you don't read it .Sounds easy enough to me.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), June 24, 2001.

Oh, horse-hockey, you guys! C'mon... it always comes down to this, doesn't it? Who's right, who's wrong? Lighten up! I'm here for the homesteading tips & usually glaze over when it's laced with beating me over the head with religion. Lots of good folks out there, and I don't begrudge anyone their truth. I've enjoyed reading Hoot's ramblings when I'm in the mood, but by now, I know what I'm getting into when I visit his threads. How's that for freedom of speach? I CHOOSE to read what I want to read! What a concept! I feel Hoot is someone who lives his truth... I admire that and usually get some warm fuzzies from his essays and maybe learn a little, too, but it doesn't have anything to do with why I visit this Forum. I live somewhere between Buddhism and Paganism and this is the LAST place I'd use to shove that down anyone's throat. I'm here for the goat & garden stuff. Hip hooray for Dave. Geez. dh in nm

-- debra in nm (dhaden@nmtr.unm.edu), June 26, 2001.

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