just in general could someone explain the visual differences between warm and cool toned papers? i've read various descriptions but i'm having trouble visualizing the differences, specifically the differences in the full blacks and full whites.... sorry if this is elementary, i've never used either but want to start trying them, i know eventually i'll end up using both but i just want to start with one right now so i can figure out what kind of negs print well with it, if i took 2 new kinds of paper into the darkroom at the same time i'd only end up being half as productive (call it the experimentation reciprocal productivity law?)

thanks for your time,

joe

-- Joe Holcombe (joe1013_@excite.com), June 14, 2001

Answers

Go to your local photography store (one that carries darkroom supplies) & look at the sample books. A few pictures will be worth a few thousand words.

But: with warm tone papers, the blacks and grays have a brownish cast; with cold tone papers, the blacks and grays have a bluish cast; warm-tone papers are frequently made with a cream-colored paper base, so the highlights seem a little brownish, too.

-- Charlie Strack (charlie_strack@sti.com), June 14, 2001.

A picture says more than 1000 words. Both prints were made on Agfa Multicontrast Classic First picture (wedding) with Agfa Neutol WA, selenium toned Warm toned

http://home.tvd.be/ws35654/wd.JPG

Second (factory) with Amaloco Cooltone, Gold toned

http://home.tvd.be/ws35654/Delta100.jpg

I hope this helps, Marc.

-- Marc Leest (mmm@n2photography.com), June 14, 2001.

The only paper I know of that actually claims cool tone is Ilford's Cooltone RC. As RC papers go, this is a pretty good one, and the tones are cool, with a bright, clean white. Agfa MCP RC is more neutral, with a very nice bright white base. Agfa RC tones beautifully in selenium, yielding a rich brown tone. Ilford Cooltone shows almost no change in selenium.

Kodak Polymax Art and Luminos Flexicon Premier VC are the coolest toned fiber papers I've found. Both use optical brighteners to produce a very bright white. Luminos is slightly cooler-toned. Polymax does not change color much at all in selenium, although it does show a useful increase in d-max. Flexicon does change color in selenium, but quickly goes from a nice increase in d-max to reddish pink, which I don't find appealing. If you tone this paper, start with teststrips and watch the time carefully. I should add, the surface of Flexicon paper (glossy) is the smoothest of any fiber paper I've seen, and, as a result, the density and depth of black is very satisfying.

As for warmtoned papers, I've never tried any of the RC type, but I've used Bergger, Ilford and Forte warmtone fiber papers. What I found most interesting is how different they look. The Bergger paper does not appear warm at all. In fact, twice I went back to the package to see if I was actually using "warmtone" paper. It was indeed marked warmtone, however. (I should note here that I've never seen more ambiguous packaging. Bergger makes neutral and warmtone fiber papers. The neutral paper has warmtoned trim and the warmtoned paper has neutral gray toned trim. The only indication as to the tone of the paper is printed in tiny black text--maybe 8-10 point-- "nuetral" or "warmtone," respectively. My impression after using their warmtoned product is even they don't know which is which! I still wonder if I didn't get neutral paper marked warmtone...?)

Ilford's Multigrade FB Warmtone has a creamy white base. The highlights are soft--warm cream, as opposed to bright and sparkly-- while the overall tone is brownish. It does have a nice tone color in the middle to deeper values. I did not try toning this paper, although Ilford's FB papers generally tone nicely.

Forte Polywarmtone Plus Elegance FB is a marvelous paper. (They also have a product called Polywarmtone Art, but the "Plus" is more arty than the "Art.") Plus is exceptionally thick (heavyweight), with a smooth surface that has just a touch of bite. The highlights sparkle, the values from Zone VI to black are rich and warm, with just a trace of olive, and show a great depth of separation. Toned in selenium (I use 1:10 for 2-3 minutes; Forte recommends 1:20.)this paper takes on a color richness that is breathtaking; the olive tinge disappears first, then the d-max increases before the color warms to a rich dark-milk-chocolate brown. It's stunning! I was so amazed by the beauty of this paper I found myself repeatedly going back to the drying screens for another peek. This was clearly my warmtone paper champion.

One final note, I've been using two different paper developers: one from Photographer's Formularly, BW-65; the other, Ethol LPD, diluted 1:5 for warmer tones, and 1:2 for cooler tones. When I first tried Forte, it was at the end of a session during which I had been using LPD 1:5. I only made one quick print that was a overly dense, but it led me to believe the paper had great promise. My next printing session I began with BW-65 developer. After a few quick RC reference prints, I switched to Forte PGWT Plus to reprint the negative I had tried previously. This time, however, the print looked much different. It was more olive than brown, almost neutral. Nor did it have the richness of the first print. I tried a few different exposures on test patches, but none approached the image tone of my first print. I even questioned whether I had toned the first print and forgotten. But I knew I hadn't. The only other change was the developer. I dumped the BW-65 and mixed up LPD 1:5. That was it! I had never seen a print developer make a more profound difference. I've used both of these developers for some time, with many different papers (mostly neutral tones, RC and FB), but I never saw this kind of difference. Therefore, I highly rccommend Ethol LPD paper developer with this paper. In fact, it is a great developer for any paper--amazing tray life, great capacity, flexible (tonally) and very inexpensive, too.

I hope this helps. You will find more information on papers in the July/Aug 2001 issue of Photo Techniques. The desciptions are spare (too many papers, too little space), but it's a useful reference and starting point.

-- Ted Kaufman (writercrmp@aol.com), July 01, 2001.

Oriental Seagull is a cold paper--it turns a crisp, almost blue-black in selenium (the fiber, at least)--which can be very striking for certain subject matter. Oddly enough, the Oriental RC is actually less expensive than the Ilford Cooltone, which (at the last I heard) was only available in a rather flimsy single weight (and no fiber version).

-- MR (reynard75@hotmail.com), July 02, 2001.

Ted, you must have had some mislabeled Bergger paper because the Bergger warmtone that I have is much more olive than any Forte paper, or any paper I've tried for that matter.

-- Wayne (wsteffen@skypoint.com), July 03, 2001.

Wayne-- The warmtone Bergger paper I had did have a bit of olive tone, but it didn't have the decidedly brown tone of Forte PLUS. Even when I toned it in selenium, it never approached brown. That is not to say it looked bad; it simply looked like neutral-toned paper.

I really do wonder now if the Bergger paper I bought was neutral paper in a warmtoned package. But since I'm so impressed with Forte PLUS, I'm not inclined to try Bergger again. Anyone else have any experience with Bergger?

I've heard Cachet warmtone is an appealing paper. I used their neutral paper awhile back, and I was impressed with the richness of its tone. I wonder how their warmtone looks? Has anyone tried it?

-- Ted Kaufman (writercrmp@aol.com), July 04, 2001.