Bishop Donald George Kenneth Ming And Pastoral Assihnments : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread

I have just read the excellent report by Rev. Leonard Santucci on our Bishop and the First District. It is a blessing to be under the leadership of such a God-centered , spirit-filled shephard. Rev. Santucci reported that at the conclusion of the Annual Conferences, Bishop Ming has assogned 72 pastors to new charges/stations. Has a list of these moves been made available? If so, how can we get it?

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001


Although I do not have a list of the Annual Conference Pastoral Appointments/Changes in the First Episcopal District, I do know the man, Donald George Kenneth Ming. Obviously, though, we are not speaking of the same Bishop Ming. It is a matter of General Conference record that every Episcopal District he has served since being elected in 1976 beginning in South Africa, the Caribbean/South America area (1980); Mississippi/Louisiana (1984); Georgia (1992-1996) have brought formal charges through both the Ecclesiastical and State/Federal Courts. He has done nothing but wreaked havoc upon the church and upon the lives of many men and women who had given their lives to Christ and the AME Church. It is a proven matter of record of his loose, un-Godly administrations across the Church and his assignment as Bishop of the First Episcopal District is a story that would be best kept secret. In short, Bishop Ming's villanious, arrogant, ill-tempered, opaque administration across the past 25 years has done much damage to the AME Church. He really should have been expelled long ago. And I don't see nothing God-Centered, Christ-Centered nor even people-centered--ness about Bishop Ming; he is MING-CENTERED.

While I respect most AME Church Bishops, I have none for Bishop Ming. His tenure as Bishop in the AME CHurch will live in infamy.

-- Anonymous, June 14, 2001

This is for Dr. Paul Baker. I would think that because of Bishop Ming's grave illness that you would refrain from saying negative things about him. Put yourself in his shoes. We must pray for the Bishop as God will be the final judge in all matters. I will admit to you that the church must change soon and it must be changed from the top. We have to elect more men and women who have integrity and are truly God-centered. The church must recognize the talents and gifts of all ordained ministers which should include local deacons and local elders and not treat local ministers as second class ministers who dont have any sense. The ministry should be that a person can choose local or itenerant and be recognized as such. I feel as long as they discriminate and make a difference, the church will always be in chaos. God is not pleased with this.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Sooner or later, Sis. Rogers, we all will become ill. Just because Bishop Ming is ill does not warrant any additional sympathy nor empathy from me except my prayer that God will save his soul. The Bible states that we will certainly "reap whatsoever we sow." That includes you, me, and Bishop Ming. He told several veteran Pastors of the Conference that sick men should go home (and he sent them home). Now he should take some of his own advice. I found him to be a very wicked, devious and dictatorial man who certainly did not appear to be rooted and grounded in the fundamentals of Christianity.

There were men and women who gave their lives to the church and while on their sick bed he taunted and even outright retired many of them although they had no other source of income and their congregations pleaded with the Bishop to allow their pastor to remain in their sickness and assured him that all obligations would be met. I know because my church was one of them. He was adamant and would not bulge.

Therefore, Bishop Ming has only my prayers but my assertion yet stand and I make no apologies.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

"And God's people said, AMEN." But of his unkind and un-Christian acts, half the story has not been told.

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Greetings in the name of Jesus Gangsters, pimps, Mafiosos stick together, it is on the Church where people will really kick a man when He is down. I beleieve it is intime like these that the sheep are separated from the goats. Let's be what God intended us to be

Love Clive

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Rev. Pillay:

You should know all about garbage, goats, and trash. With all of it that you placed on the 15th Episcopal District (Unofficial) Web Page about the AME Church in the U. S., Bishop Young, and other Pastors in South Africa that you do not like, you should repent in "sack cloth and ashes." Do I hear a tinge of righteous indignation in your comments; hardly. Even the South Africans have referred to your messages on the bulletin board as being nothing but trash. Go back and re-think (and re-pent).

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

(2 Cor. 5:9, 10 NKVJ) Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.


Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, June 16, 2001

Regarding Dr. Paul Baker's comments about Bishop Ming brings to my mind two (2) points of thought: 1) If his comments are unfounded and if there is the slightest chance his comments are untrue, then I feel this is one of the most vicious, unchristian attacks I have ever seen on this board!! 2) If his comments are based on provable facts and are true, then our beloved AME Zion is in trouble!! How, and who would allow this kind of behavior and actions from a Bishop? What is the recourse of those under this kind of leadership? I am sad to say that this behavior is often displayed by the itinerant ministers that the local churches have to tolerate and "dance to their music" under the guise of "pastoral authority" or "as the pastor, I can make anything happen that I want to happen". These dictatorial attitudes are driving the members away from their local churches by the droves. The First District must be an incredibly large district to be able to make 72 pastoral charges/stations!

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

Ms. Ransom, what do you mean IF my statements are unfounded or untrue? I stated it happened in the church wherein I serve as Steward. I have no reason to lie and no reason to prove anything to you as if you are God Almighty; as a matter of fact, who (or what) do you think you are to question my integrity.

There are other statements on the Bulletin Board that corroborate mine, even other private emails to me that say the same. You should watch the way you phrase your sentences;; I don't take kindly to anyone either hinting that I may be lying or calling me a liar. If you knew anything about the AME Church at all, you would have known about Bishop Ming's behavior. As I forestated, it is a matter of General Conference record! Furthermore, I don't need you nor anyone like you passing judgment on my statement; it stands for itself.

-- Anonymous, June 20, 2001

This wonderful medium of communicating has a draw back that I often experience on this board: the writer cannot convey the "tone" or intent of their message, nor can the reader know the same. By your comment to me, it is perfectly clear to me you do not "get it" by what I said and meant. Perhaps I should have left out all the reference about "if" the things about Bishop Ming were unfounded and untrue, I can see from your response this is a pretty sore spot with you. What I REALLY was pointing out is that whatever Bishop Ming's behavior and actions are and have been ( I muat admit I am unfamiliar with Bishop Ming), the EXACT same thing is occurring at the local level in our churches!! I am asking the question, "what is our recourse from such tyrannical, dictatorial, ungodfly, and loose berhavior from those that are in "leadership" positions over us. Please do not think I was asking for proof, questioning your integrity, or anything of that nature. In your response you say that his behavior is a "matter of General Conference record", which makes my point ecactly, what is or has been done about it? this I do know about the AME church, there are no provisions for (that are implemented) that are taken against the perpetrators, they are rewarded with new charges, new responsibilities, and still in power and control!! Dr Baker, I hope I have squared myself away with you and you have a better understanding of "where I was coming from". Incidentally, I am in the 5th District and am not completely up on all that is going on in my district, there are some people that need to be "weeded out", if you know what I mean. Let me hear what you think of this response.

Sincerely, Barbara Ransom

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

Let me begin by saying that what I say here is in no way an attempt to criticize or pass judgment on the feelings or opinions which others have rightfully and truthfully expressed. I do respect your expressions and concerns.

However, I for one have always been grateful for the itinerant nature of our church. Just as God gives us a new start and a new beginning with the dawn of each new day and the arrival of each new year, our church--either on an annual, biennial, or quadrennial basis--affords us the same. Personally, I welcome this opportunity for growth and change.

As a product of an A.M.E. parsonage, it has always been my understanding that the Bishop's prerogative at an Annual Conference -- within the guidelines set by the Discipline--is to assign, appoint or reappoint whomever he or she so chooses. If we too work within those guidelines we would often find this to be a blessing and not a curse. More often than not these changes breathe new life into our own personal ministries and the ongoing ministry of the church.

In defense of Bishop Ming, let me simply say that for eight years I got to work closely with Bishop and the late Mrs. Edith Ming. While each of us have both strengths and weaknesses, they were able to share with me their many and wonderful strengths. To me they were always most dear and kind. The result was, therefore, love and respect. Allow me to also say that at this time Bishop Ming, and all our leadership, needs and deserves our prayers. Let us pray for each of them. Let us bless and not curse, and let us "Let Go and Let God."

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

Bro. Matthews, since you are a child of the parsonage and you know positive law so well, then you should know that the entire process of pastoral assignments/appointments is not uniquely the Bishop's perogatives. The same Discipline states "The Bishop shall permit a pastor to remain on a circuit or station as long as his/her services is pleasing and profitable to the people." Since the church membership was pleased (99.9 %), the Presiding Elder was pleased, the church was growing although the Pastor was ill, why would Ming be so dirty. Sure, he has the power, but power should be tempered with mercy and grace.

Ming knew better than all of us from whence he came through the pastoral ranks, so he should have been more considerate. But instead, he would "rant and rave" in all our Episcopal District and Conference meetings that if you didn't like what he has done, "T.B." (too bad). Is that any way for a leader to conduct himself; I think not.

Every Episcopal District he was assigned, he incurred the wrath of the "rank-and-file" people. Thee Mings had nothing but impolite things to say to people and if you did not "kiss-up" to them, it is evidently that you were on their hit list.

I agree with the previous writer that I originally had some contention, that "Power corrupts" and "absolute power corrupts absolutely." Ming had very little exposure to education; only a Bachelor's and a Master's in Divinity and I think that he felt inferior so that was the way he wished to make up the deficit.

Once again, I have nothing but my prayers for Bishop Ming that God will save his soul. I have seen him do too many dirty, wicked deeds to ministers; from taking money that was intended for the deceased minister's family (under the guise that he used the funds that were donated or sent by other pastors to entertain visiting ministers after the funeral service; talk with the family of the late Dr. David H. Jackson of Georgia) to retiring, demoting, and otherwise embarrassing ministers. Even God does not deal so justly with his own wayward children as Ming has dealt with those over whom he exercsies authority. For this, he had better pray in sincerity and humility that God saves his soul.

-- Anonymous, June 21, 2001

Again let me say that I have no problem with those persons whose opinions differ form my own. You have every right to your opinion as I have to mine and I respect your right to speak as I do my own. As you are my brothers and sisters in Christ, I also do so in love. "Neither do I plan to retract the statement that Bishop Ming has always been kind to ME and that Bishops can and do make appointments. As heaven and hell are in God's hands and Jesus ALONE is Savior and Lord, I pray I will never appoint myself as Judge. "His blood can make the foulest clean; His blood availed for me."

One final note: Let me simply say that many years ago now, my own father, for reasons of concern for his health, was supernumerated from the Annual Conference. This also required that he leave a church and work, which he dearly loved. He too was loved and respected by the people whom he served. It was his intent to return the following year. He never did. For, God called him home.

Were we bitter? Indeed we were NOT. For, it allowed him precious time, which he might never have had, to spend loving, and being loved by his own family. It also gave us the time as small children and my mother as his devoted wife to spend with our father and friend.

I thank God that I am in a church that moves on no matter what. Whatever is our lot and in whatever situation we might find ourselves to be, "God Is the Ruler Yet."

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001

Mr. Matthews, it appears that your analogy is very lacking and obviously you did not understand or did not care to understand "the bone of contention" regarding Bishop Donald G. K. Ming. If he has treated you kindly, fine, good for you; he also treated me kindly, but that is not my focal point. He did not treat the Pastors and Ministers under his watchful care, kind, nor with dignity or grace and it is they who were mainly the object of his ridicule and scorn as many of his Pastors/Former Pastors have emailed me to wholeheartedly agree. The itinerancy is definitely Methodism; but using your power to degrade, humiliate, and for egotistical purposes is not.

Thanks for your sermonette but it does nothing to deflect from Ming's character and behavior which is un-Godly, wicked, and otherwise disgusting.

-- Anonymous, June 22, 2001


-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

Please allow me to shed additional light on the subject of appointments within the First District. In response to Bro. Bob McCain, no a list has not been made available that I am aware of, but I will seek to obtain one. In response to Sis. Barbara Ransom, the First District has roughly 350 churches. 72 pastors and 6 Presiding Elders appointments were made.In reponse to Dr. Paul Baker, thank you for sharing your experience of Bishop Ming. I believe all of us have an impression of each of us and our respective contributions to the Church and the cause of Christ. I thank you most of all for your preparedness to pray for Bishop Ming. I believe that your prayer life and prayer support toward him has made a profound statement about who you are and what you believe. This was not lost on me. As a pastor, my current charge challenged my administration. I was brought before Bishop Philip R. Cousin with accusations brought against me. As we set and reviewed the charges, the crowd slowly disappeared, like the woman caught in the act of adultery, leaving me free from accusation. I have remained on this station and have enjoyed the work. The church has risen to new heights and I find that as a result of these experiences I am a better person. I did not enjoy the pain or the process at the time, but I often look back in thanksgiving for how I made it over. As we pray for our Bishops, let us pray for our church...for all of us who will make mistakes and cause others pain and suffering.

-- Anonymous, July 04, 2001

Bro. Bob McCain, I was pleased to do some follow-up work on your request for names regarding the changes in the First Episcopal District. I have submitted a story entitled, "Reshaping a District" to AME-Today and the Christian Recorder. This story gives additional details to the previous story you read. It also list the names of the pastors assigned to roughly twenty of the leading churches of the seventy-two appointed. I do hope this story is of benefit to you and other readers. As much as possible, I will continue to update readers on the activities of our Bishop and Episcopal District.

-- Anonymous, July 14, 2001

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