DE &/ Worms

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Something interesting came up when I posted about usind DE in a garden for fire ants that it may kill the worms. First of all I think I could do without the earthworms to get rid of fire ants. Not only do they swarm your WHOLE farm, eat your crops, kill animals, sting you really bad etc.., they drive you crazy!

Anyway that got me to thinking since we moved here 3 months ago I have not seen any worms! Now the guy before us was using a flat out poison not DE so it can't be the DE because we just started using it. This is a sandy soil which we are not used to and very poor. Does this have anything to do with having no worms?

Very strange!

-- Lynn (johnnypfc@yahoo.com), June 09, 2001

Answers

I know I try to talk people out of using chemical fertilizers and weed killers, explaining that if they try to find worms after applying them, they won't. At my house, any little shovelful you make (even digging up weeds) will produce worms. So yes, I bet because the person before you used poison, you are still having the residue effect. I would think that the only way to change that would be to mix in new, clean dirt until the old is weak. Mulch, animal manure,etc. That's just my idea.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), June 09, 2001.

I don't think I could get along without food grade DE! No smell nor flies in the chook pens and the birds have never had mites/scaly leg. No fleas on the dogs. No internal parasites in any of the critters. Fire ant numbers are down.

This rental I'm in isn't sealed very well. I keep DE sprinkled in strategic areas. I'm constantly vacuuming up dead insects....and at least one or two dead scorpians a day. Charming, eh!!

I don't have them here, but gardeners who live elsewhere say that DE does NOT kill earthworms. I've also read that in some of the reports.

The 2 varieties of dung beetles on my property are still here, so I haven't killed them off with the DE.

And here's a new one ~ someone just told me they use DE to get the stains out of their carpeting! Something about wetting the stain with water and then putting DE on it. Then vacuuming it up when the DE is dry. I haven't tried that yet.

== This is a sandy soil which we are not used to and very poor. Does this have anything to do with having no worms? ==

I've lived in the desert for many years, and I've never seen worms!

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), June 10, 2001.


All of the literature I have read on DE says it does not hurt earthworms when it passes through them. Likely the reason you cannot find earthworms is there is nothing in the soil for them to feed on. I agree with the above about incorporating as much organic matter into the garden as possible to create not only a good plant base, but also a home for earthworms. Once you have organic matter built up in your garden, earthworms can be ordered from a number of sources.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), June 10, 2001.

We've been using DE in our garden now for three years and we've got more earth worms than you can shake a stick at. The first bag I bought at the health food store and was over ten dollars for a small bag, since then we buy from lady that sells goat pellets and the DE is 18.00 per 50# bag. We had a problem with cut worms, bad. Now DE goes around every transplant and gets reapplied after rain, don't think we lost a single plant to cut worms this spring. I think I'll go get some when I go back out and take it to the chicken pen. Have a great day. Sherry

-- sherry (chickadee259@yahoo.com), June 10, 2001.

DE kills internal parisite worms not earthworms. To bring earthworms back feed the soil and don't use pesticides, if you want earthworms soon, seed some into the garden etc. with good compost to eat and they will spread. DE controls hard shell beetles in the larval stage, it cotrols fleas best in the larval stage as well. I've put adult fleas in a jar with DE and it took quite awhile for them to die.

-- Thumper (slrldr@aol.com), June 10, 2001.


We had very poor,sandy soil when we moved here 13 years ago.Not an earthworm on the place.Since then we have added a lot of organic matter to the garden and the goats have added a lot to the barn area. We introduced worms to those areas and they thrive there.Still no worms in the lawn??? or pasture.I think they just can't live in pure sand.

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), June 10, 2001.

Yes, it is correct that earthworms wound not live in 'pure' sand because there would be nothing to eat, they need organic matter grass ont he other hand can grow on water and fertilizer, the earthworms will spread to the lawn when the food is there for them. There are some small types of earthworms that thrive on lower levels of organic matter than the red worms or nightcrawlers, if you check on one of the vermiculture (spelling?) I don't know if it would be worth the trouble to seed them in. Question, Do you leave the grass clippings on the lawn? or have thatch build up? both would feed the soil / earthworms, in hot climates the clippings/thatch break down really fast esp. with watering, cutting the grass as high as recomended for that type of grass helps too,as it gives better shade to the soil. And unfortunately herbicide and other pesticides can stay in the soil for several years.

-- Thumper (slrldr@aol.com), June 10, 2001.

In Florida soils,I should say sands, the only insects you might find is fire ants and fleas .Now you answered some of your questain.You said the ants eat crops and kill animals,they also eat earthworms.One of the best ways you can improve your sand in Floida and maintain a supply of earthworms in your soil is to buy some bales of alfalfa hay and put it down on the ground you plan to plant on.It should be put down at least 6in high.It will smell a little like manure as it decays cause it has a high nitrogen content.I don't remember how long it takes (maybe a month) but as it decays ,earthworms will start appearing.Also as the sand becomes soil from continually improving the ground and the organic matter starts dominating where sand use to, the ants seem to decrease.It seems they like the sandy soil better than the high in organic material soil that the alfalfa hay helps greatly to produce.I don't think you can ever get rid of fire ants,you just try to control them a bit,I guess your from up north and you probably just learned that there's nothing much worse for feet and ankles then walking with a pair of flip flops thru an ant nest.If you do decide to use a poison type of ant granual killer,most say to use about a cup worth.I've had good results with less then a tea spoons worth.And ducks and chickens will eat it and die faster than the ants will ,so keep animals and pets away from the area that the poison is used on.And remember it leaches into the ground water (the Aquifer where we get our drinking water from) and the ocean.So don't put down more than you need.

-- BJ (earth3et@aol.com), June 11, 2001.

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