Call Off the Crazies! Message to Bush: Call off your surrogate "enforcers" before someone gets hurt By Pamela Parker

-- (bush@twofaced.scum), June 08, 2001

Answers

The bitch against mia is tha she called the press after the police (and who calls 911 to report underage drinking??!!) what a c**t.

-- (mia@lawrence.dem), June 08, 2001.

She should just be glad it was the Bush twins, and not Chelsea, otherwise she would be inclined to shoot herself in the back of the head from the publicity.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

Interesting how none of the "responses" actually have anything to say about the fucking wackos on free republic.

Sympathizers, perhaps? You advocate such things against people? How are you going to feel if something bad does happen to Ms. Lawrence and/or any of her staff and/or her LEGITIMATE business?

You people are hypocritical freaks.

-- (dittomonkeys@re.morons), June 08, 2001.

I find it difficult to believe that any sane, rational person thinks it is at all acceptable to harass this poor woman. I feel terrible for this poor woman.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 08, 2001.

Tarzan, your key (operative) words there were "any sane, rational person".

The "freepers" haven't had an original thought since they were founded (or hatched, whatever). They are spoon-fed their "party line" and like all good dittomonkeys, they spread the "word" all over the airwaves.

Try to have a discussion with them (well, if you've tried talking to Ain't, you know what it's like). They never actually address any issues, they simply Spread the Word. It would be a pathetic joke, much like the two "sympathizers" we have here, if it wasn't actually "real".

-- (dittomonkeys@re.morons), June 08, 2001.

I wouldn't "feel" anything. Obviously she was looking for some attention by calling 911. I've worked in a family restaurant and when you know an ID is fake or the age of the person trying to buy alcohol, you just refuse to sell to them.What is the big deal? She's getting what she wanted.

Mia made a big deal out of it and brought all of this attention to herself and her business. Very quick to call the authorities and make a media circus out of it. If it was any other person, she wouldn't have called the police. Since Barbara was served, the restaurant should have some legal problems too. I didn't see anywhere that Barbara held a gun on the bartender or waitress did you?

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

Obviously she was looking for some attention by calling 911.

Of course, you could make the same argument against the twins. They were obviously looking for attention by breaking the law and using fake IDs.

What is the big deal? She's getting what she wanted.

Do you really believe that this woman wanted to have her private, personal information splashed all over the Internet so she could be harassed at her place of business? Mia made a big deal out of it and brought all of this attention to herself and her business. Very quick to call the authorities and make a media circus out of it.

When the twins chose to break the law, they called attention to themselves. Wouldn't you agree?

Since Barbara was served, the restaurant should have some legal problems too.

Wait a minute. First, you say that by informing the police someone was breaking the law, the manager deserves to be threatened and harassed. Then, you say that since the law was broken, the manager and the restaurant deserve to be punished by the law. Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Frankly, I think that a lot of people are upset that the Bush twins broke the law and are aiming their ire at the wrong person. Just as you claim the American public ought to be outraged at Clinton for having an affair that was splashed all over the media, so you should claim that the American public ought to be outraged at the Bush twins for breaking the law. To have one set of standards for Democrats and one for Republicans in hypocrisy, Marg.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 08, 2001.

The silence from the dittoheads is deafening.

Where oh where is J on this? Hey J, a small business operator is being attacked by Republiberal Brownshirts, do you approve? How bout you Maria? libs are idiots? Ain't(lol)? Where are you Conservatives? Buddy?

Shit hits the fan and you freaks disappear. HYPOCRITES!!

-- (bush@twofaced.scum), June 08, 2001.

You rang?

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), June 08, 2001.

No not you cap, the Bush supporters.

But maybe for your next outing you and Aunt Bee might consider Austin? visit Chuy's? hahahaaa bring the dolls!

-- (bush@twofaced.scum), June 08, 2001.

Call Off the Crazies!
Message to Bush: Call off your surrogate "enforcers" before someone gets hurt
By Pamela Parker

Tuesday, June 5, 2001 -- WASHINGTON (APJP) -- While the Bush family jokingly rolls its eyes about Jenna's and Barbara's underage drinking and refuses to comment publicly, Bush supporters are bringing a bitter jihad of retaliation against Chuy's, the Austin restaurant at which the young lushes violated the law -- an the bar manager who did the right thing and phoned police.

The attacks against Mia Lawrence, the bar manager, are being orchestrated on the Internet. Her address, date of birth, drivers license and registration information, physical description, and even birth information about her infant child have been posted on freerepublic.com, along with calls for punitive actions. Freerepublic.com website's sysop pulled some of the information as it was called to his attention -- to his credit -- but the info has circulated and been posted to other Internet forums to spread the "Get Lawrence" frenzy.

Bush supporters have obliquely and directly called for Lawrence to be punished -- publicly humiliated, fired from her job, impoverished, and exposed to risky and dangerous situations.

A freerepublic.com member who uses the screen name "tracer" recommended using her private info for identity theft:

"Giving out her driver's license no. and her DOB opens her up to mucho identity theft. It also makes background checks by 'inquiring minds' a breeze [sic]. But at least that's better than the way a Democrat apparatchik in Chicago would have handled this if the roles/parties were reversed. The result rhymes with 'room.'"

"Eva" wrote:

"I think that you should visit the restaurant with a camera and a cell phone. Take pictures of the staff serving the underage college students and send them to the newspapers. Also take pictures of Mia What's her name [sic] and post it on the internet [sic], along with her license number. Make this chick so paranoid that if she thinks if she so much as goes through a red light, someone will call 911. Let her know that her picture is being posted."

Others suggest pouring bar drinks on her and making a permanent web site with her personal info. On the web site lucianne.com is posted a link to a 2001 personal bankruptcy claim filed by Lawrence, with all its unhappy detail about her finances, including many thousands of dollars in medical expenses.

The calls for retribution aren't limited to Ms. Lawrence.

"Robomatic" speaks up:

"One thing that I personally would never do ;) is walk into Chuy's with a LARGE bottle of buturic (sp. ?) acid and begin to liberally apply it to every surface. For those fortunate enough NOT to know what it smells like, let me only say that it smells worse than a rotting corpse and typically, the smell, immediately induces vomiting. (If I remember correctly, it is non-toxic...besides the odor) I wonder how long it would take, given that Chuys would not have a SINGLE customer for days after each application, to drive them out of business? One may easily find this chemical on a college campus in a chemistry lab. I love liberals. Have a nice day."

"ctonious" wrote an email to Chuy's:

"Have you noticed a drop in business? If not, you will soon. We are informing patrons arriving at your establishment that they are being closely watched for sobriety and strict adherence to all vehicle equipment and operational safety laws. However, unlike you - we won't be clogging legitimate 911 services to report trifling infractions - the regular police phone lines will do. However, we WILL use 911 to report obviously intoxicated patrons and restaurant staff leaving your establishment. You may not see us - but we see you. We thought you would appreciate that your unbending adherence to the law has inspired us to help you with your enforcement. Please don't thank us - it's the least we could do."

"P-Marlowe" advocates federal involvement:

"Chuy's is a restaurant. As a restaurant there is a lot of cash floating around that will not get reported to the IRS. Perhaps if enough people complained to the IRS then they could remedy that situation? If this Chuy's manager wants to be a liberal and waste a lot of taxpayer money I think maybe she ought to pay her fair share. Perhaps the IRS would be interested in making sure that all of these Chuy's employees pay full taxes on all those tips and other unreported income?"

"Ladylawyer" wrote:

"My message to Chuy's is that they must deal with their 'management team' in exactly the same spirit as the "management team" dealt with Jenna and Barbara Bush. They must take mean-spirited action that is designed to inflict the maximum damage, without regard to the seriousness of their actions."

Members named "cweese" and "area51" reposted Lawrence's address and drivers info; then a poster named "wideawake" suggested calling police repeatedly to make phony reports of suspicious activities at her home.

The cell phone number of Chuy's area manager was posted, as well as the toll-free number, with the hope that a barrage of calls would cost Chuy's money. A freerepublic.com member in Chicago urged that take-out orders for food be phoned in from all over the country, with no expectation of picking up the food, of course. Another member suggested calling in bogus table reservations.

Others suggestions included going to the restaurant and tying up the tables for hours with just one beverage order, passing out flyers at colleges warning students of the "narcs" at Chuy's, and even spreading reports of salmonella poisoning and cockroach infestation.

Americans have seen this mob thuggery mentality from Bush supporters before, most recently in post-election Florida. The "skills" of demonization, propaganda and pack assaults are nurtured by right-wing hate-filled press such as the FOX News Channel, talk radio, and certain Internet sites, including those named above. Eight years of vicious attacks on the Clinton family were only the baby steps of political warfare, it appears.

The difference in this instance is the mob's hounding of a young mother, a hard-working woman of very modest means who challenged the fraudulent and unlawful conduct of the spoiled and reckless Bush daughters, who were calculatedly breaking the zero-tolerance Texas law signed by their father.

There is a strong Bush family tradition toward rolling over others and flirting with lawbreaking. A long "rap sheet" of personal offenses and excesses has resulted in few consequences for members of the Bush clan over several generations. None of us should be surprised that Bush surrogates wage this war in the same scorched-earth, punitive style.

But, come on! Raining down firestorms from thousands of political thugs against a hard-working mom already on hard times?

Scapegoating Mia Lawrence is wrong.

It's time that former Texas governor Bush make a statement and call off the dogs - and that he make his irresponsible daughters accept personal responsibility for their actions, criminal conduct that Mia Lawrence is now being made to pay for.

After all, it's the compassionate conservative thing to do.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), June 08, 2001.

Mia Lawrence is a crazed, fascist, steroid freak with a lesby attraction to Jenna Bush. She is a dangerous stalker. For reasons of National Security, she must be stopped now.

-- (Agent_67356ACX_@_Secret.Service), June 08, 2001.

Now remember Tarzan, it is Marg you are dealing with. She cares nadda zippo zilch bout little.

-- (drip@drip.drip), June 08, 2001.

Tarzan, I agree the twins were wrong in trying and buying. They need a stricter punishment for their own good. I'm not using two sets of standards. I don't post at freerepublic.I am not representative of the people that post there. I could give two shits about Mia Lawrence.

Mia put herself in a position that could get very precarious.It has been my experience...bar-owners, restaurant owners don't prosecute if a minor attempts to purchase alcohol with a fake ID .They usually ask you to leave or bring a soda to you. Mia did neither. She has placed the liquor license of the rest. in jeopardy by serving a minor. She will probably lose her job. She is probably regretting her decision to call 911. Good, she has learned a valuable lesson.If you're a dem don't be so rabid when it comes to the children of republicans, and don't think when you're flinging shit it won't get on you.

As for the twins, second time for both deserves more than a slap on the wrist...weekend jail time sounds like a plan with community service during the week.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

Now you can see why I have posted the way I do in regards to the low life stinking stupid fucking repugs. Repugs suck repug dick! Those fucking hypocrits are always talking morality and look how they are treating that woman Mia. Makes me ashamed to be an American. Fucking repugs!

-- Tony Baloney (Fuck the@repugs.com), June 08, 2001.

Texas is a bit different than other states on such things, Marg. If one is caught showing a false ID here, or even caught drinking underage in the parking lot of an apartment house, 911 is called. I've actually called the number listed in the phone book for non- emergencies and the police told me to call 911. The regular number is only used for administrative problems, like..."I got a ticket for driving without a seat-belt. Where do I go to pay it?" My daughter knows a guy who recently got a ticket for falling asleep on a grassy knoll. It must not have been at the UTA campus, as I've noticed students doing the same thing there every day.

It's also unclear whether Ms. Lawrence called the press or someone else. I don't know if the Austin Statesman is a tabloid or a mainstream rag, but they're closer to the news on this one than I.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 08, 2001.

It has been my experience...bar-owners, restaurant owners don't prosecute if a minor attempts to purchase alcohol with a fake ID.

Individual citizens don't prosecute at all if someone breaks the law, Marg. It's up to the police and the DA to prosecute lawbreakers.

She has placed the liquor license of the rest. in jeopardy by serving a minor.

To be fair, it was Jenna and Barbara who placed the liquor license in jeopardy by breaking the law. Also, the manager of the restaurant didn't serve anyone, it was the waitress who served. Of course, this is probably why she dialed 911 in the first place.

She will probably lose her job. She is probably regretting her decision to call 911. Good, she has learned a valuable lesson.If you're a dem don't be so rabid when it comes to the children of republicans, and don't think when you're flinging shit it won't get on you.

My goodness, you're a vengeful person, aren't you?

The biggest lesson to be learned here is When the children of powerful Republicans want to break the law in your business, don't get in the way, otherwise you'll find yourself the target of harassment by bitter extremists.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.ent), June 08, 2001.

Tony, you stupid little prick! Who the hell are you to talk about morality? How about I tell all of these folks about your activities with those sick fuckers from NAMBLA? That’s right folks, my little Tony can’t get it up for a woman but he and his freak friends have no problem jerking off at pictures of 7 year old boys. Tony, next time I catch you in the bathroom with your newest issue of ‘Boy’s Life’, your little 1” weenie will end up down the garbage disposal.

-- Mrs. Baloney (at@your.service), June 08, 2001.

No, Tarzan, I'm not a vengeful person. If I was urging others to use Mia's personal info than yes, but, I'm not.And wouldn't. I think her intent was to embarass the family even more than they are already. It has and will continue to backfire in her face.

I agree it was the twins who initially caused problems and jepardized the liquor license but, Barbara was served. That is also the fault of the waitress and subsequently the restaurant.I think Mia was looking for a little publicity and got more than she bargained for. Hopefully lessons have been learned on both "sides".

Add a good swift kick in the ass to the twins punishment. They really need it.I would like to be a fly on the wall when grandma Barbara gets a hold of them.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

No, Tarzan, I'm not a vengeful person. If I was urging others to use Mia's personal info than yes, but, I'm not.And wouldn't.

And yet, you think it's a good thing if this poor woman loses her job, that it's her just desserts for daring to call the police when she sees someone attempting to break the law.

I agree it was the twins who initially caused problems and jepardized the liquor license but, Barbara was served. That is also the fault of the waitress and subsequently the restaurant.

I agree. I believe tyhis is why Lawrence called the police, she didn't want this situation to come back and bite her on the posterior.

I think Mia was looking for a little publicity and got more than she bargained for. Hopefully lessons have been learned on both "sides".

If Lawrence was looking for publicity, why didn't she alert the media? According to the story Anita posted, the local media was called by a man named "Owen" who was a long-time patron of Chuy's.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 08, 2001.

Eh... off?

-- Tarzan the Tag Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.tag), June 08, 2001.

"Police Chief Stan Knee said it was the situation — a 911 call to a restaurant — that was unusual, not the way police responded.

"It was unusual for us to get the call in the first place," Knee said. "Most business establishments usually handle those things themselves. Once we were notified of the crime, or the potential crime, we felt obligated to make as thorough a report as possible."

This was taken from the article you linked ,Anita. Like I said most restaurants handle this themselves and Texas is no different according to this article.

If you also read further down in the same article when Mia was asked what she hoped would happen to the Bush twins, she stated she hoped they would get in big,big, trouble. Nice woman. I don't think she was thinking of the restaurant at all. So, whatever happens to her ...... Sounds like she may have voted for Gore,ya think?

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

Oh, I almost forgot...

Dear "Drip", I can't begin to tell you how it gladdens my heart that my words have bothered you so much, you refer to it constantly. I'm so pleased. I get a real good chuckle every time you post, to think that I pissed you off so much.It must have really hit home,hmmmmmm?

You are, and always will be,...a drip.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

Marg, I can hardly believe what I am seeing from you. You have claimed that Mia was "looking for attention" by calling 911, but how many people can come up with the phone number for the police on the spur of the moment? Or the fire department? Or the ambulance service? Or the sheriff? Or the state patrol? That's what 911 is for, Marg; calling the authorities. I think you are reading way, way too much into this woman's call to 911. More likely that she simply didn't know the phone number for the police, and called the convenient, easy-to-remember 911 folks.

"I agree the twins were wrong in trying and buying. They need a stricter punishment for their own good."

Excellent. I agree with you. I hope Momma Laura and Granny Barbara get all up in the twins' business.

"Mia put herself in a position that could get very precarious."

How's that? She called the cops. How's that put you in a precarious position? It's not like the Bush twins are hard-core drug dealers, and they're going to put a hit out on Mia for screwing up their game. Mia did what more people ought to do; call a cop when people break the law. If your next-door neighbor was performing psychotherapy without a license, would you call a cop? If your co- worker was running a cockfighting arena and breeding coop, would you call a cop? If your cousin was smuggling tax-free smokes into Canada, would you call a cop? And if a couple of underage college kids used an fake ID to illegally obtain liquor, why wouldn't you call a cop?

"It has been my experience...bar-owners, restaurant owners don't prosecute if a minor attempts to purchase alcohol with a fake ID."

That's because DAs prosecute. Not bar and restaurant owners. If they were to knowingly sell liquor to kids, then the bar and restaurant owners could be liable, too.

"They usually ask you to leave or bring a soda to you."

How many times have you tried to illegally buy liquor, Marg? :)

"Mia did neither. She has placed the liquor license of the rest. in jeopardy by serving a minor. She will probably lose her job."

If she knowingly did so, then yes, you're probably right. However, we don't know for a fact if that was the case. Perhaps she realized who she was dealing with after serving the drinks. Maybe a co-worker figured it out and told Mia. We simply don't know, and you are assuming that Mia knew who she was serving, and went ahead and served them anyway. You could be completely wrong, and in any event, you need to get more facts.

"She is probably regretting her decision to call 911. Good, she has learned a valuable lesson."

And that lesson would be "don't cause trouble for the children of powerful Republicans?" Or is it something else I am missing?

"If you're a dem don't be so rabid when it comes to the children of republicans, and don't think when you're flinging shit it won't get on you."

Oh. Do we know for a fact that Mia is a Democrat, or is that just another assumption on your part? I would have called 911 if I were in her place, but I didn't vote for Gore. Does that mean I would get treated differently? As long as I'm not a Democrat, can I be rabid when it comes to the children of Republicans? And how do you recommend the masses recognize the children of Republicans? Should they all wear big gold stars on their clothing so that Democrats will know that they shouldn't "be rabid" about them? And would it be okay for Democrats to "be rabid" about children not so adorned?

I'd really like to know.

"As for the twins, second time for both deserves more than a slap on the wrist...weekend jail time sounds like a plan with community service during the week."

I agree. First offense, slap on the wrist. Second offense, sterner stuff. Third and subsequent offenses, throw the book at them. Does anyone know what number offense this is for each of the twins?

"I think her intent was to embarass the family even more than they are already."

How would you know what her intent was? This sounds like another gigantic assumption on your part, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

"It has and will continue to backfire in her face."

You can't plausibly claim that what Mia did has backfired without knowing the how and why of what she did. You're assuming again, Marg.

"I agree it was the twins who initially caused problems and jepardized the liquor license but, Barbara was served. That is also the fault of the waitress and subsequently the restaurant."

However, the waitress and the restaurant are only at fault if Barbara was knowingly served. If the waitress didn't realize who she was dealing with until after serving the booze, then she did the right thing by contacting the authorities and telling them what happened. You seem to think that everyone in Austin recognizes the Bush twins, and that all Democrats in that town have it in for them. Personally, I'd like to know what the Secret Service agents were doing while all this was going on.

"I think Mia was looking for a little publicity and got more than she bargained for."

I disagree. I think you are engaging in overblown, paranoid fantasy. There are far more plausible explanations for what has happened, and your fantasy smacks of justification for the attacks this poor woman is suffering. Call a cop when someone breaks a law? HERESY! BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!

Get real.

"Hopefully lessons have been learned on both "sides".

I wonder what the Bush twins have learned? Jenna's recent courtroom experience didn't seem to dissuade her from trying again.

"Add a good swift kick in the ass to the twins punishment. They really need it.I would like to be a fly on the wall when grandma Barbara gets a hold of them."

Hear, hear. I totally agree with that. I wonder if Granny Barbara will have them go cut switches from the Rose Garden? :)

"If you also read further down in the same article when Mia was asked what she hoped would happen to the Bush twins, she stated she hoped they would get in big,big, trouble. Nice woman."

Hypocrite Alert! Marg, you have also stated that you hoped they would get in trouble. I also hope they get in trouble. Do you have reason to believe that the trouble Mia would wish on them is any greater than the trouble you or I would wish on them?

"I don't think she was thinking of the restaurant at all. So, whatever happens to her ...... Sounds like she may have voted for Gore,ya think?"

Sounds like another unwarranted assumption on your part.

BTW, Anita, the Austin Statesman is a mainstream paper. Molly Ivins just recently left the staff thereof.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), June 08, 2001.

Already, Go read or re-read the article Anita posted links to. One arrest in Austin this year-Jenna.

Police don't know why the manager called them since establishments usually handle this type of thing themselves.

I hope that they are punished by Mom and grandma. I don't wish to see two kids crucified for being young and foolish.

Only reason this is getting so much publicity is because they are the Potus's kids. Cops in article even alluded to that.

Mia should have asked them to LEAVE and taken the ID's. Simple as that. Now she's got nutcakes after her and it will probably be a long time before it gets better.I doubt she will ever do anything like that again. Wish I could say the same for the Bush girls.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 08, 2001.

twofaced.scum,

Let me get this straight: If I don't check in here and openly denounce bad behavior in a timely enough manner for your satisfaction, then you say that I must approve of that behavior? LOL!

You're not really serious, right?

Right?

By the way, Marg's first post to this thread was a classic. I almost fell out of my chair when I read that.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), June 09, 2001.

Course not J.

-- (bush@twofaced.scum), June 09, 2001.

"Already, Go read or re-read the article Anita posted links to. One arrest in Austin this year-Jenna."

I did reread it. I also read an article on another thread here that appears to suggest that the waitress did not recognize the twins, and that patrons pointed the twins out to management. That would appear to fly in the face of your rather fanciful imagination.

"Police don't know why the manager called them since establishments usually handle this type of thing themselves."

Or maybe the manager felt that Jenna Bush needed to visit the courtroom again, since she obviously didn't learn her lesson the first time she appeared before a judge for this sort of thing. or maybe the manager didn't know how to toss out two underage alkies with Secret Service protection. Don't you suppose that a couple of brawny G-Men would intimidate any restaurant manager?

"I hope that they are punished by Mom and grandma. I don't wish to see two kids crucified for being young and foolish."

I hope that Mom and Granny get after them, too. But as far as crucifixion goes, the Bush twins are their own worst enemies. They brought this shit on themselves, and they have no gripe coming regardless of what happens to them.

"Only reason this is getting so much publicity is because they are the Potus's kids. Cops in article even alluded to that."

The cops didn't call 911, so their opinion would not appear to have any bearing on why this is getting so much publicity. Better to talk to the waitress and the manager. And also to the news outlets in the Austin area.

"Mia should have asked them to LEAVE and taken the ID's. Simple as that."

Just like that, with the SS goons hovering over the girls, right? No, she should have done what she did. Jenna and Barbara Bush should behave better than that, and they don't deserve a pass for this. Jenna just got a CONVICTION on this same type offense last month, for crying out loud! And she goes right back into a restaurant and tries to buy booze? And her sister's got a fake ID? That's bullshit, Marg. If anything, that kind of arrogance and disrespect for the law (from the children of the President) deserves to have the book thrown at it.

"Now she's got nutcakes after her and it will probably be a long time before it gets better."

Yes, because mindless fanatics are not easily dissuaded.

"I doubt she will ever do anything like that again."

And that's a shame, because we need more people with the courage and backbone to do what's right. What a sad turn we have come to when the people who espouse "personal responsibility" and "do the right thing" attack someone who bears the former and abided by the latter. Anyone who attacks this poor woman is the worst kind of hypocrite.

"Wish I could say the same for the Bush girls."

I think that some sort of professional counseling may be needed, in addition to legal and family punishments.

I'd also like your response on this, Marg:

Oh. Do we know for a fact that Mia is a Democrat, or is that just another assumption on your part? I would have called 911 if I were in her place, but I didn't vote for Gore. Does that mean I would get treated differently? As long as I'm not a Democrat, can I be rabid when it comes to the children of Republicans? And how do you recommend the masses recognize the children of Republicans? Should they all wear big gold stars on their clothing so that Democrats will know that they shouldn't "be rabid" about them? And would it be okay for Democrats to "be rabid" about children not so adorned?

I'd really like to know.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), June 09, 2001.

The Austin American Statesman is not only mainstream, it is the ONLY daily paper in town. This has been so since 1973 and at one time, I believe the paper was owned by the Johnson’s (you remember that fun family don’t you?). The AAS has a poor reputation for not tackling the ‘hard issues’ and for a town like Austin to have only one paper begs for speculation. There is a weekly rag called the Chronicle that digs a little deeper into stories but it is a very minor player in this politically charged town.

I am amused at all of this flap over the Bush girls and their escapades. Imagine if you will: 19 year old college students attempting to buy a drink….THE HORROR OF IT ALL.

-- Telinet (like@it.is), June 09, 2001.

"Oh. Do we know for a fact that Mia is a Democrat, or is that just another assumption on your part? I would have called 911 if I were in her place, but I didn't vote for Gore. Does that mean I would get treated differently? As long as I'm not a Democrat, can I be rabid when it comes to the children of Republicans? And how do you recommend the masses recognize the children of Republicans? Should they all wear big gold stars on their clothing so that Democrats will know that they shouldn't "be rabid" about them? And would it be okay for Democrats to "be rabid" about children not so adorned? "

I wouldn't have called 911. I would have handled it myself like MOST establishments do.Did you understand that business's don't call 911 for minors trying to buy alcohol?

Yes, I am assuming Mia is a democrat, she sure acts like one.Will check on her party preference, just for you. Should the kids of republicans be treated any different from dems kids? Nope...Should the kids be scapegoats because of their parents politics?....NOPE It would be kind of hard Not to recognize the twins especially if you live in Texass.I'd feel the same way if it was Chelsea...leave the kids out of it.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 09, 2001.

"Imagine if you will: 19 year old college students attempting to buy a drink….THE HORROR OF IT ALL."

I just can't get over how poetic this situation is. Either this is a good law and it should be enforced or it is a bad law and should not even be on the books.

Who wrote the law? Texas Republicans. Who signed the law? Governor George W. Bush. Who broke the law? The children of George W. Bush.

The intent of the law is to prescribe escalating punishment based on the number of offenses. Each successive offense brings harsher consequences. This is a concept near and dear to the lawn order Republicans now for a couple of decades. Personal responsibility and all that jazz.

So how could the law possibly work as intended if restaurants "handled it on their own" without ever reporting the offense to the police? It couldn't. The law strictly requires restaurants to report every infraction. That is the way the Republicans wrote it.

This is called making your own bed and having to lie on it. If GW Bush and the Republicans find this bed uncomfortable enough to be outraged that the law is working the way they wrote it, then they should be honest enough to call for the repeal of the law and to admit that it was a rotten law and a rotten idea, and apologize to everyone who has had to live with it.

The state of Texas should also rescind all punishments meted out previously under this law and offer to pay reparations to the victims of their idiotic, draconian law. Bush should publically admit his mistake and show contrition for signing this thing.

Either that, or stop bitching about getting what they asked for.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), June 09, 2001.

Telinet, I found this statement a bit disingenuous:

"The AAS has a poor reputation for not tackling the ‘hard issues’ and for a town like Austin to have only one paper begs for speculation."

There are quite a few cities with more than one newspaper, but in a lot of cases, those newspapers are owned by the same company. In really egregious cases, the papers will even share editorial staffs. This essentially means that the two papers are the same. So having more than one newspaper is not automatically evidence of healthy competition in the newspaper biz. The corollary is that having one newspaper is not automatically evidence that an area is underserved by the news media.

Marg --

"I wouldn't have called 911. I would have handled it myself like MOST establishments do."

Marg, how do most establishments handle the situation when family members of the President try to break the law while they have Secret Service agents protecting them? Do you really think that any waitress or any manager is going to face the twins and their bodyguards down and say "get lost?"

I don't think so. This situation is way, way beyond what most people have ever dealt with, and your claim that "MOST establishments" would have done X does not hold water. MOST establishments have never hosted the children of a sitting President. MOST establishments have never had patrons with Secret Service protection. And MOST establishments have not had to deal with sauce-monster Presidential spawn with fake IDs AND Secret Service protection trying to buy liquor.

This is a totally different situation, calling for a totally different response. Would you want to have to deal with the twins and their SS goons? I wouldn't. I'd rather just have the police deal with it. Of course, earlier you were screaming about Chuy's calling 911; now you're upset that the police were called at all. Which is it?

"Did you understand that business's don't call 911 for minors trying to buy alcohol?"

Did you understand that this is not just a simple case of minors trying to buy alcohol?

"Yes, I am assuming Mia is a democrat,"

Yes, absent any proof or evidence either way, you're just going to make an unwarranted, fanciful assumption and damn the lady based on that. What a pathetic argument. What if we find out that she wasn't a Democrat? What would you say then?

"she sure acts like one."

I recommend that whenever you want to write the word "Democrat," you write instead "honky," "nigger," "spic," "Jew," "Guinea" or some other pejorative term. You don't use it as an identifier, Marg; you use it as an insult. No doubt you can tell us how all Democrats behave? Perhaps you can tell us how all Republicans behave, too. And while you're at it, I'd like to hear all about the habits of niggers, spics and Jews.

There's a word for what you're doing, Marg. It's called prejudging, as in prejudice. Obviously you can't address the woman's acts as the behavior of an individual -- you have to paint it as "Democrat" behavior. That's about as laughable as Hillary Clinton and her feared "vast right-wing conspiracy."

"Will check on her party preference, just for you."

You need to check on it for yourself, Marg.

"Should the kids of republicans be treated any different from dems kids?" Nope..."

Now you're lying, Marg.

You said "If you're a dem don't be so rabid when it comes to the children of republicans," so logically, you are saying that Democrats can only be rabid about the children of non-Republicans. You are saying that Democrats can point out the misdeeds of the children of Democrats, Independents, Reformers, Libertarians, Communists and so on, but not the misdeeds of the children of Republicans.

Would you like to clarify your statement?

"Should the kids be scapegoats because of their parents politics?....NOPE"

You are assuming that the Bush twins are being made scapegoats at all. They broke a law that their father signed (Jenna more than once), and you appear to be are arguing that they should get a pass. You're saying that the manager at Chuy's should have tossed them out and should not have called the cops. Yet the law signed by then- Governor Bush signed REQUIRES that the police be called. Therefore, you are arguing for a free pass for the Bush twins.

Where's the personal responsibility here, Marg? Or is that not for the children of Republicans, either?

"It would be kind of hard Not to recognize the twins especially if you live in Texass."

Why? If they haven't been much in the news, then why would you expect everyone in the state to recognize them? I know my governor has two kids, but I have no earthly idea what they look like. I do know that they don't cause a bunch of stink like the Bush girls do, though.

"I'd feel the same way if it was Chelsea...leave the kids out of it."

So far as I am aware, Chelsea has not ever been busted in any bars, so your comparison is poorly drawn. I would like to add that I was appalled that young Albert Gore got away with boozing and dope smoking while his daddy was VP, and I felt that the coverup of his hijinks was reprehensible and that Albert should suffer the same penalty as anyone else. Now that we're looking at misbehaving Republican progeny, I am obligated to take the same position.

Anything else would be hypocrisy. Hear that, Marg?

LN, so well written and so well said. Thanks for your post, especially this part, which Marg should think about:

"So how could the law possibly work as intended if restaurants "handled it on their own" without ever reporting the offense to the police? It couldn't. The law strictly requires restaurants to report every infraction. That is the way the Republicans wrote it."

Get the picture, Marg? You're wrong.

"This is called making your own bed and having to lie on it. If GW Bush and the Republicans find this bed uncomfortable enough to be outraged that the law is working the way they wrote it, then they should be honest enough to call for the repeal of the law and to admit that it was a rotten law and a rotten idea, and apologize to everyone who has had to live with it."

What a good idea. Either have the twins take personal responsibility and suck up the punishment, or have President Bush admit the law was a bad idea and apologize for it. This should also apply equally to Democrats when they're caught in similar situations.

"Either that, or stop bitching about getting what they asked for."

Hear, hear.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), June 09, 2001.

Mr. Nipper, I should have added that there is no question as to the existence or validity of the ‘legal age to consume alcohol’ laws in Texas. These same laws, to a varying degree, are in place throughout the U.S.

College students since time immortal have been ‘breaking’ these laws and I predict they will continue to do so. Can there be ONE person on this forum who has not done so in the past? Only celebrity violators will get any mention at all and theses incidents with the Bush twins are a perfect example of media overkill. Comes with the territory.

Without taking any political position here, I find that Jenna and Barbara just seem like normal 19 year olds, having a good time at a great time in their lives.

Oh to trades places.

-- Telinet (like@it.is), June 10, 2001.

"College students since time immortal have been ‘breaking’ these laws and I predict they will continue to do so."

I perfectly agree. I will freely admit to having consumed alcohol during my minority under circumstances the law did not permit.

"Only celebrity violators will get any mention at all and theses incidents with the Bush twins are a perfect example of media overkill."

For me, the attention in the media is not the point. I do not see either of the Bush children as being somehow worse than any other kids because they broke this law. But it is still a compelling story, for other reasons.

My bone to pick is that the Republicans have long been selling us on the idea that, because underage kids were breaking the earlier law, the 'solution' to this 'problem' was to impose much stiffer punishment. Letting kids off easy was bad policy. We must catch the lawbreakers and break them on the wheel of the law.

The fact is that most of the public has always believed as you do, Telinet, that it is harsh and pointless to punish all drinking under the age of 21, and that a certain laxity in enforcing these laws was never a big problem, but rather a nod toward realism and sanity. In spite of this, the Republicans marched ahead and imposed this harsher legal standard. And Bush signed it into law.

Under such circumstances, it would be unconscionable for the Bush twins to be held to a laxer standard than their peers, when it comes to their status under the law. Yet, the Republican spin machine has been selling the idea that the only reason the twins were cited was because they are being unfairly targeted.

The great irony is that the Republicans are now taking advantage of the huge reservoir of public opinion that always disagreed with their harsh legally-enforced morality to turn public opinion in their favor. The Republicans are pretending that they are not the authors of this piece of crap that came back to bite them - big time. That is pure hypocrisy.

It was the law the Republicans passed that targeted those kids, not the restaurant manager. If the restaurant manager was wrong to follow the law, the law is wrong, not the manager.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), June 10, 2001.

Why Mr. Nipper, you know that our government never operates from a middle position. I suspect that the extremely powerful lobbying know as M.A.D.D. has exerted their influence to push for tougher ‘drinking’ related legislation. They are insured the ear of any administration, regardless of Party affiliation.

-- Telinet (like@it.is), June 10, 2001.

I don't like the double standard here. Bush is going to deny financial aid to anyone who has smoked pot, which is illegal, yet underage drinking is illegal and we should just place it under the umbrella of "everybody does it".

How is it that the degree of illegality makes a difference? Shouldn't underage drinking, which does more actual harm (driving, aggressive behavior) have the same result of denial of finaancial aid? Better yet, to make things more equal, refuse higher eduaction to those who are guilty of underage drinking or of using drugs. That way all things would be equal. Those who depend on financial aid loose the means to further their education. Why shouldn't those who are guilty of the same crime loose their access to a higher education also, even if their parents can afford it? Or are the laws set up so that those who have money are above the law, and those who are poor, have the most to loose. Why wouldn't the twins go around trying to drink? They act like they have been doing it and getting away with it for some time. How does anyone know that maybe Jenna didn't smart off and say something like "Hey! I drink all the time, my Dad's the president, I can do what I want". After all, the Bush clan is known for retaliating if they don;t get their own way, just ask Jeffords. Now what is the difference legally that between doing something "everybody" does and loosing financial aid for college which could have the impact of destroying their futurs, while another

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), June 11, 2001.

Cherri, do you actually think the twins have to get finacial aid to go to college?

Jenna has been the only C violation given out this year.I don't believe she has been the only underage drinker in Texas. Sounds like she has been singled out because she is the president's kid, not, she can get away with it because she is the prez's kid.

On top of everything else she's probably been getting heckled to death because of the fake nude photo of her in Hustler and Flynt's offer to pay her 10 million dollars to "lay around" and have her photo's shot.

I still say, adamantly,LEAVE THE KID'S OUT OF THIS.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 11, 2001.

Jenna has been the only C violation given out this year.I don't believe she has been the only underage drinker in Texas. Sounds like she has been singled out because she is the president's kid, not, she can get away with it because she is the prez's kid.

The law was changed, Marg, so that using a false ID is now a B violation [which comes with a harsher punishment.] The other kids in Texas who used a false ID and got caught were charged with the B violation. Jenna is the only kid charged with the lesser offense, demonstrating that she WAS indeed singled out because she was the president's kid.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 11, 2001.

Marg, you have Tar and Already arguing with you. You must be doing something right. Mia doesn't deserve to have her name plastered all over the net. But she did a stupid thing.

When my son was 16, the undercover police asked him to work for them. He had the distinction of growing facial hair when he was twelve and looked well beyond his years. They wanted him to go into bars, and using a fake ID, order drinks. If the bar or restaurant didn't throw him out (like they were supposed to), the establishment would be charged with serving a minor. Marg is correct. Mia should be fired or charged with serving a minor.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), June 11, 2001.

Wow, lots of activity on this thread! I would have thought people would have moved on by now.I don't like the double standard here.

Or are the laws set up so that those who have money are above the law, and those who are poor, have the most to loose.

I think you're letting your emotions run away with you here, Cherri.

How does anyone know that maybe Jenna didn't smart off and say something like "Hey! I drink all the time, my Dad's the president, I can do what I want".

Actually, I can imagine anyone getting very upset on finding out that the wool had been pulled over her eyes. Jenna has been the only C violation given out this year.I don't believe she has been the only underage drinker in Texas. Sounds like she has been singled out because she is the president's kid, not, she can get away with it because she is the prez's kid.

Exactly. As Anita pointed out, a C violation is less serious than a B violation under Texas law. I think it's a distinct possibility that she has been singled out because she is the daughter of the president and the former gov.

On top of everything else she's probably been getting heckled to death because of the fake nude photo of her in Hustler and Flynt's offer to pay her 10 million dollars to "lay around" and have her photo's shot.

There's a fake nude photo of her in Hustler? No offense, but I find this a little difficult to believe; the news of her arrest(s) has been almost inescapable, yet somehow no one has picked up this story and run with it. Can you provide a citation I knew Flynt had offered to pay 10 mill for nude pictures of either of the twins.

If it is true, maybe Chelsea Clinton can provide some moral support and guidance. After all, she handled the National Review editorial calling for her death in a very graceful manner.

I still say, adamantly,LEAVE THE KID'S OUT OF THIS.

I agree with you. Of course, it would be nice if the twins would meet the world half way and not get themselves into this position.

Mia doesn't deserve to have her name plastered all over the net. But she did a stupid thing.

I think she did the best with the no-win situation the twins put her in, especially in light of the fact that other patrons recognized them and complained about the situation. Lawrence's choices at that point consisted of either ignoring the situation and being known as the establishment that served the two most famous under-age drinkers in the US, throw them out and get the bad publicity and the ire of the law, or call the police and let them know what was going on. I would have done the same thing she did.

Mia should be fired or charged with serving a minor.

Why should Lawrence be fired? She spotted the minors who were drinking illegally and alerted the police. The waitress serving that section failed to spot the minors and served at least one (I don't recall if the others were minors as well), so Lawrence stepped in and did the best with a bad situation, probably preserving Chuy's liquor license in the process. She should get a raise.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 11, 2001.

Whoops! The sentence I don't like the double standard here.is a fragment from Cherri's post, not my opinion.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 11, 2001.

Maria: I would agree with you if Chuy's didn't "card" Barbara before serving her a drink. They DID, however, and she presented an ID for Barbara Pierce of Maryland. The picture on that ID looks JUST like her. It wasn't until some patrons said, "That's Jenna's twin, Barbara sitting with her. She's only 19." that the establishment realized that a false ID was involved. The bigger question in MY mind is why Barbara wasn't ALSO charged with having a false ID. If you want to see the ID used, The First Twins site has a facsimile.

I don't think establishments are required to go beyond asking for an ID that shows a picture resembling the patron with a birthdate within the legal range. Here in Texas, the picture on the ID is a profile until one is 21, when one can face the camera. This is an additional attempt to eliminate the ability to falsify ID's.

Marg: I mentioned the 911 experience to counter the criticism that a police EMERGENCY number shouldn't have been called, not to suggest that Chuy handled the situation in a different way than other establishments. Some states have laws against calling 911 for a non- emergency. Texas not only does NOT have such a law, but suggests that folks call 911 for ANY reporting of violations.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), June 11, 2001.

Marg the big fucking asshole of the forum. She thinks she knows it all and belongs over at J's house. Cunt.

-- (hawk@flyin.high), June 11, 2001.

Thanks Hawk, Love. I was starting to get alittle nervous that my favorite troll had disappeared. Kisses and hugs to you.......

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 11, 2001.

Tarzan, Here's the link (crossing fingers and hoping it goes through.) Don't go to this site if you are offended by nude photo's!!!!!

http://www.thefirsttwins.com/hustler.html

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), June 11, 2001.

"I still say, adamantly,LEAVE THE KID'S OUT OF THIS."

Oh, yes, Marg. Leave the kids out of their own alcohol violations. Look, Marg, the twins violated Texas state law all by themselves. They should face the music. Period. Nobody's dragging these young women into anything, because they got themselves ass-deep in trouble without any help from anyone.

They should now sink or swim. On their own.

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), June 11, 2001.

Marg-

Looking at the site, it seems that Hustler did publish a cut and paste nude photo using Jenna Bush's head. However, not only was it an obvious fake, but the publisher as well indicated that the picture was fake, meant to encourage Jenna Bush to send in the real thing. From your description I had gotten the impression that Hustler had taken a more realistic cut and paste image and had published it as the real thing. From the actual picture, I can see now why this image didn't generate much press attention.

Of course, maybe she is getting "heckled to death" in her private life. If so, I still suggest that she put in a call to Chelsea Clinton, a first daughter who was on the receiving end of some extremely harsh and unfair criticism. Who knows, maybe Chelsea will even buy Jenna some Boone's Farm.

;-)

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), June 12, 2001.