... if he can't even raise his own daughter properly? He is such a poor role model that his daughter must learn how to properly conduct herself from a judge in a courtroom. Apparently Dumbya thinks that judges in courtrooms are responsible for determining the fate of the entire human race, particularly if they are the kind of judges that accept bribes.

Also note the careful choice of words by the so-called "liberal" media. If John Q. Public agrees with the charges, he pleads "guilty". But when it is the president's dear innocent daughter, she pleads "no contest". Of course there is NO WAY she could ever be "guilty" of doing ANYTHING wrong! After all, she's Dumbya's daughter! (heh heh heh)

*****

Wednesday May 16 12:44 PM ET

Bush Daughter Pleads No Contest to Alcohol Charge

AUSTIN, Texas (Reuters) - A judge on Wednesday ordered President Bush (news - web sites)'s daughter Jenna to perform community service and take an alcohol awareness course after the 19-year-old pleaded no contest to underage drinking.

Bush appeared before Austin Municipal Court Judge Elisabeth Earle and pleaded no contest to a charge of minor in possession of alcohol, a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $500 or community service.

Undercover Austin police officers discovered the president's daughter, who is a freshman at the nearby University of Texas, drinking a beer at a bar in Austin's popular Sixth Street nightclub district. The legal drinking age is 21.

Earle ordered Bush, who appeared with lawyer William Allison, to complete eight hours of community service, attend a six hour alcohol education course and pay $51.25 in court fees.

Bush, dressed in lilac pants, a sleeveless black top and sandals, nodded and answered only ``yes'' or ``no'' throughout the hearing.

The charge will be dismissed if Bush meets all of the requirements by June 17, and the case can be expunged from her record if she is not arrested again before she turns 21.

At one point during the hearing, Bush became agitated and complained to the judge when photographers snapped her picture through the windows in the courtroom's doors. The judge dispatched two court security officers to block the windows.

The U.S. Secret Service, charged with protecting the president and his family, ushered Bush in and out of the courtroom via a back door, but did not accompany her during the pleading.

Jenna Bush and her twin sister Barbara are the president and first lady Laura Bush's only children.

President Bush, who admitted he had a problem with alcohol when he was younger, once had a brush with the law in Maine after being stopped for driving under the influence. He quit drinking alcohol in 1986.

-- (dumbya's daughter @ holier. than thou), May 17, 2001

Answers

I think you're really being unfair here. The kid made a stupid mistake involving alcohol. Who didn't make stupid mistakes involving alcohol at 19?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 17, 2001.

"Bush, dressed in lilac pants, a sleeveless black top and sandals"

Does this strike anyone else as being inappropriate attire for a hearing in a courthouse? I know some judges would have a problem with it. A courtroom has a certain sanctity, and this is lost on Bush.

Was there a male judge? Could this be why she wore a sleeveless tank top?

-- Enlightenment (gone@away.now), May 17, 2001.

Give the kid a break! What were you doing at 19? Check female exec's suits. Alot have sleeveless tank tops with a suit jacket. Find fault with everything. Let's see you in the media light. Yes, I said the same about leaving Chelsea alone when her father? was in office. Gee, what are your kid's up to?

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), May 17, 2001.

There is a certain respect one should have for the courts. There are dress codes in many courtrooms. This is not analagous to a female executive suit; it would be equally inappropriate to wear such an out fit and take the jacket off in front of the judge.

In my opinion it just shows the white trash that she is. This pawning off of "just a condition of being a teenager" is bunk. You either obey a law or you do not. In my home state you lose your license for underage drinking. The attempt to minimize Ms. Bush's behavior is a symptom of what is wrong with the general attitude toward averse alcoholic behavior. This is not to say younger Bush is an alkie; it DOES say that the potential is there, because it all starts when the use of alcohol begins to interrupt your normal life.

Teenage indiscretions go so far. This IS a problem for her, and she should not get a free pass.

-- Enlightenment (gone@away.now), May 17, 2001.

Can a lousy husband do a good job running our country?

-- (Hillary@the.Hill), May 17, 2001.

I'll disagree with you regarding the useful indiscretion issue, but I'll agree with you regarding her courtroom attire. She was entirely too casual. I wonder why the judge didn't say anything, or if the judge did and it isn't recorded here? Austin is a very casual city, maybe this is SOP in the courts of Austin.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 17, 2001.

Enlightenment, She will learn, maybe the hard way. I am not minimizing the problem with alcohol and today's youth. I am just saying cut her a little slack regarding the attire. I seem to recall a recent president of the white trash variety that couldn't keep his pants on, or his cigar in his humidor.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), May 17, 2001.

It is ILLEGAL to consume alcohol until you are 21. She knew this, and even worse, she was hanging out like a slut in a bar, putting that establishment at risk of losing their liquor license and going bankrupt.

-- (bush daughters @ total. white trash), May 17, 2001.

Marg you are quite a piece of work. Self righteous piece of shit that you are. Anyone not like you is beneath you. Right away you jump on the kids. Gee what are your kids up to? Your name would not be laura IRL would it?

-- truth Teller (bwwwaa@haaa.bwwww), May 17, 2001.

Truth Teller, I'm cutting you some slack because I understand that you, being a product of incest, don't have the mental capacity to conduct yourself within the confines of accepted behavior. Go screw your sister, moron,but, please use birth control.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), May 17, 2001.

"Can a lousy father do a good job running our country... "

Sure. Why not? A President needs a different set of skills than a father. For example, I am a great father, but that doesn't mean I would be an effective president.

For example, Nixon and Reagan were, on the face of it, lousy fathers - but they were effective presidents whether you agree with their politics or not. Carter was probably a very good father, but even though I liked Carter's politics, he couldn't control Congress - even though Congress was run by the Democrats and Carter was the "leader" of the Democratic Party. That is a clear indicator of his ineffective leadership.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), May 17, 2001.

LN--

You're making much sense these days. [Kiss of death :-)]

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), May 17, 2001.

Marg you talk about other posters alot for a new person around here. Perhaps you should try looking in the mirror regarding child rearing and incest.

-- dont like what we see (watching@it.all), May 17, 2001.

Up yours........dipshit.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), May 17, 2001.

I grew up in Washington, DC, and I can tell you that I saw many politicians' underage sons and daughters drinking at parties during that time--both Democrat and Republican.

Big deal.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), May 17, 2001.

Keep yapping Marg your true colors are shinning more and more. Most here know you are a yourdon wannabe leftover. Here is a good proposition for you why not get a job? Or since you like having stuff up yours, invest in a plunger.

-- marg-fan (for@sorry.assed), May 17, 2001.

If Jenna did not party like other kids she would be mocked for being a Republican goody-two shoes.

Do your thing babe. They will hate you no matter what.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), May 17, 2001.

Lars, at least I am consistant on this one. I didn't think that Clinton getting a blow job in the Oval Office made him a bad president, either - just a bad husband.

All that stuff about "bringing dishonor on the office" was so much crapola in my view. Clinton wasn't the one who dragged that bit of indiscretion into the light. On the contrary, he tried his level best to keep it private and hidden for as long as possible. Then he was excoriated for trying to keep it hidden. Of course it was distasteful to know he did it. But ask yourself, who thrust that distasteful morsel under my nose and insisted I sniff it? And why?

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), May 17, 2001.

Buddy, exactly!

Marg, don't let the vicious little gremlins bother you. Remember you shouldn't water them.

And on the dress thing... so what?! Lots of women come dressed to work looking very appropriate in sleeveless tops and sandals. Big deal!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 17, 2001.

Maria, thanks.

Little Nipper, he wasn't excoriated for trying to keep his personal life private, he lied and got caught with his pants down.He had/has no respect for the office, for his wife, his daughter or the american people.

-- Marg (okay@cutaway.com), May 17, 2001.

Aint = Marg

-- truth (aint@it.the), May 17, 2001.

She was however wearing the required footwear of all liers, flip- flops.

"the answers and truths are there, you are just missing the obvious"

-- (pinhe@d.detector), May 17, 2001.

Lots of women come dressed to work looking very appropriate in sleeveless tops and sandals. Big deal!

You do realize that Jenna was there to get sentenced, not work, right?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 17, 2001.

Tarz,

psst:don't confuse-em anymore than they already are.

-- (pinhe@d.detector), May 17, 2001.

Marg = libs are idiots = Ra

now he's pretending to be a woman cuz he thinks we won't know it's him, lol!!

-- (libs are idiots @ is. an idiot), May 17, 2001.

Wrong again shit for brains. Back to your hamster boy.

-- Ra (tion@l.1), May 17, 2001.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Caught ya!!!

-- (Ra @ is an. asshole troll), May 17, 2001.

Tar, what did you wear the last time you showed up in court?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 18, 2001.

The last time I went to court was as a witness to an accident I was not involved in. I wore a suit and a tie. Normally I wear khakis and a sport shirt to work. The women in the court room, including those waiting to see the judge and those who were spectators, were all wearing suits, pants suits, or nice dresses. I didn't see a bare arm or a sandal in the place.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 18, 2001.

Like anyone else, Jenna can wear whatever she wants to court. However, noone should be deluded into thinking their apparel doesn't matter. Her choice was stupid.

As for wearing the same types of clothing to work, big mistake in my estimation. Whoever started this trend of women wearing casual sandals and open-toed shoes at work anyway? It's impractical, unsafe in many cases, and personally I don't want to see your feet at work anyway. In many jurisdictions it is illegal to drive with open-toed shoes/sandals too.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), May 18, 2001.

"Lots of women come dressed to work looking very appropriate in sleeveless tops and sandals. Big deal!"

Sleeveless tops and sandals are indeed very appropriate attire for work, as long as your work involves pumping gas, serving food, or selling sandals. Otherwise, you're just a slob.

-- Mr. Black (mr.black@fashion.com), May 18, 2001.

Buddy-

A lot of workplaces prohibit open-toed sandals for just that reason. Our office is business casual, but open-toed sandals aren't allowed, nor are tops that bear the arms or midriff. Women are allowed to wear shorts if they wear them with stockings. Men aren't allowed to wear shorts period. We can all dress as we like on casual Fridays, within these guidelines.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 18, 2001.

...nor are tops that bear the arms...

Tarzan, are you trying to segue into a firearms discussion. 8^)

-- David L (bumpkin@dnet.net), May 18, 2001.

Different areas of the country, different climates cause different people to wear different styles of clothes.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), May 18, 2001.

Tarzan, how did you end up working for such a draconian enterprise? Such restrictions on what the little women can wear makes it sound like you are a Muslim cleric or something. LOL!

-- jammy (jammin@with.jammy), May 19, 2001.

Re: A lot of workplaces prohibit open-toed sandals for just that reason.

A friend of mine quit his job because he couldn't tolerate this kind of nonsense. Fortunately he is the sort of programmer that gets cold calls trying to hire him quite frequently. He got another job that afternoon and his former manager was in tears from losing him. I've never had a job with a dress code (my high school did not have one either).

-- dandelion (golden@pleurisy.plant), May 19, 2001.

Jammy-

Our dresscode is pretty SOP for the industry, outside of SV.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 21, 2001.

Tar, what "industry" might that be?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 21, 2001.

IT.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 21, 2001.

When you sell military secrets for a living, you can wear anything you like.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 21, 2001.

No, actually, to sell military secrets, one needs to wear a trench coat. It's in Reg 35-10

Tar, SOP for the IT industry is exactly what your company does. LOL

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 21, 2001.

Grasping at straws again, eh Maria? Poor little dullard.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 21, 2001.

Tarzan, pay no attention to the alcoholic military secret giving wench.

-- (ha@bwwwaa.bwaaaa), May 21, 2001.

Tarzan,

Am I summarizing your opinions correctly here?

1. It is o.k. to kill your own baby if you want to, whenever you want to, BUT

2. it's WRONG to wear a sleaveless shirt to work, or to court?

-- Man (get@some.priorities.dudesickle), May 21, 2001.

No, it's never okay to kill a baby. It is up to your judgement whether or not to prevent a pregnancy from resulting in a baby. It is up to the judge whether or not it's wrong to wear a sleeveless shirt to court. However, if you're up for sentencing, and your father isn't president, it is a good idea to wear a suit.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 21, 2001.

Tarzan,

The sad part is that coming from anyone else, what you just said would mean something. From you unfortunately, it's just doublespeak.

-- Be careful (When@crossing.the.street.for.most.people.red.isn't.green.and.visa.versa), May 21, 2001.

I disagree with Tarzan vehemently about abortion, but he is right on one thing. If you have to explain yourself to someone who could send you to jail and/or fine you into oblivion, you should always look your absolute best.

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), May 22, 2001.

And of course women showing naked arms is NOT looking "your absolute best". Tar knows, HE'S in the IT industry, the standards for dressing in the workplace.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

Damn Maria, you'll pick a fight about anything, won't you?

Sad to say, but wearing a sleeveless top, just like wearing shorts, is considered too casual in most places in my industry. Other industries have different standards, for instance, most banks consider khakis to be too casual. Now in deference to your obvious mental shortcomings, I'll reiterate this point. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to whom I am writing. The word "reiterate" is just a fancy word for repeat. I'll also be using a different example from the banking industry to further illustrate my point. In this case, "illustrate" means to provide an example.

Other industries have different dress standards. People dress differently to work at a client site integrating new software than they do to work on an oil platform.

Please let me know if you need me to provide further explanation. I'm always happy to help the challenged.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

Tar, I'm not picking a fight just "reiterating" Jammy's point, "... like you are a Muslim cleric or something" and also Cherri's point, "different climates cause ... different styles of clothes". But of course, you know the SOP for dress in the workplace. Tar do you ever read your own words?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

I always thought Clinton dressed stellar.

-- dudesy (dudesy@37.com), May 22, 2001.

But of course, you know the SOP for dress in the workplace.

Not the workplace as a whole, but for my industry, Maria.

Tar do you ever read your own words?

Why yes, I do. In fact, here's what I said, Our dresscode is pretty SOP for the industry, outside of SV. Your assignment is to actually respond to what I said, not what you wish I said.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

Tar,

Point is, that a woman can wear sandals and a sleeveless top and be ready for yard work. She could wear sandals and a sleeveless top and ready for an evening of dinner and dancing. Women's sandals come in many shapes and sizes. Some "sandals" could cost as much as $1,000. Same is true of sleeveless tops. Some could be as casual as a tee shirt while others could cost in the hundreds of dollars and found in the "evening wear" section of your department store. I'm not passing judgement because I haven't seen a picture of Jenna. You, on the other hand, are, based on your vast knowledge of the IT industry dress for success. That's just laughable.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

Let me add, "for women" at the end of "IT industry dress for success". You think you know how *women* should dress.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

I'm not passing judgement because I haven't seen a picture of Jenna. You, on the other hand, are, based on your vast knowledge of the IT industry dress for success. That's just laughable.

Those of us who have an imagination can picture a woman wearing a sleeveless blouse, lavender pants, and sandals. Of course, it would be unfair of me to expect you to actually use your mind in that way, just as it's unfair of me to expect you to respond to what my posts actually say. My criticism of Jenna Bush's dress for court is based on the fact that she was there for sentencing. I'm sure you'll disagree with me on this point, but anytime you are up for sentencing you should present yourself in the best light possible, including your clothing.

You think you know how *women* should dress.

Unfortunately for you, that simply isn't the case. I am familiar with the dress standards common in my industry for both men and women. End of story.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

What happens if someone doesn't follow the dresscode Tarzan?

-- Polly Wanna Cracker (polly@wanna.cracker), May 22, 2001.

Polly-

It depends. In my experience, companies enact dress codes as a CYA in case someone comes to work dressed in a really inappropriate manner, such as wearing a t-shirt with obscenities on casual Friday. I have never seen anyone get fired over wearing, say, a sleeveless sweater but I do know of one case at a client site where a female call center employee was disciplined for wearing a halter top and extremely short shorts.As I recall, she was given a copy of the dress code and told to go home and change.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

In case anyone cares, here's an MSNBC story about Ms. Bush's scrape with the law that describes the sandals she was wearing. From the article:

The University of Texas freshman appeared before the judge wearing a sleeveless black shirt, pink capri pants and black flip-flops that exposed a toe ring on her right foot.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

"She could wear sandals and a sleeveless top and ready for an evening of dinner and dancing. Women's sandals come in many shapes and sizes. Some "sandals" could cost as much as $1,000. Same is true of sleeveless tops. Some could be as casual as a tee shirt while others could cost in the hundreds of dollars and found in the "evening wear" section of your department store."

According to most dress codes I've seen, most evening wear is not appropriate business attire, including expensive stilleto sandals. Some sleeveless tops aren't inappropriate, but spaghetti straps, halter tops, and hot pants aren't considered business attire or even business casual. Also most Friday casual rules don't allow torn jeans, shorts, or flip-flops either.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), May 22, 2001.

For what it's worth, I imagine that a man who wore a tuxedo to the office could count on at least one visit from HR...

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

Tar,

"Those of us who have an imagination can picture a woman wearing a sleeveless blouse, lavender pants, and sandals." Obviously I have more of an imagination than you. I can imagine a woman described this way, ready for yard work AND I can also imagine an elegantly dressed woman.

"I am familiar with the dress standards common in my industry for both men and women. End of story." Exactly my point Tar, you know because you know, how laughable is that! Have you ever seen workers dressed in silicon valley (the IT industry)? Perfectly acceptable to wear sandals and shorts, just like they stepped off the beach. Point is, there is no *SOP* for the IT industry across the nation. I know it's hard for you to understand concepts outside your own little world. But use your imagination.

Buddy, there exists all kinds of shades in between beach attire and evening attire. I described two extremes of dress for women. The world of fashion isn't just one or the other. I didn't think I'd have to give you guys a lesson.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

Maria,

"I am familiar with the dress standards common in my industry for both men and women. End of story." Exactly my point Tar, you know because you know, how laughable is that!"

Don't you remember the LAST person who said, "I know what I know"? It was of course Ed Yourdon himself, explaining why there WOULD be a Y2K crisis. Similarly, Jenna is wrong because she doesn't agree with Tarzan. End of story. Nothing else matters.

Tarzan,

*Try* having some imagination yourself. WHY do you believe you should wear nice clothes to court? Because you believe it will prejudice the judge to give you a lighter sentence, right? Ms. Bush's father is President, so acting rationally, she thinks this will ALSO prejudice the judge in her favor, and dresses however the hell she wants -- much as I would expect YOU to do if you were in her situation, as you have the same attitute, but just don't have the same connections. I would have a lot MORE respect for the biker who shows up in his usual attire because that's who he is than some Tarzan who bends over to the establishment to beg for a little mercy.

BTW, would a sleeveless top be acceptable attire for a woman to wear to an abortion, or do you insist they show up in buisness attire? IOW is going to court more of a "serious matter" to you than killing your own baby?

-- Tarzan (Still@the.most.fun.piece.of.work.here), May 22, 2001.

It may be perfectly acceptable to wear shorts and sandals to work in Silicon Valley. That's because many of these companies coddle their workers because the field is highly competitive. Those ways are changing though with the downfall of the dot-coms.

I really don't care what people wear if they get their jobs done. However, noone should be foolish enough to believe that people won't judge them based on their behavior (choice of clothing is a behavior). Many may not realize that they're missing out on advancement opportunities.

As for Jenna Bush, she was naive to wear what she wore to court. She got lucky that it didn't seem to become an issue with that particular judge. I'm sure being the President's daughter didn't hurt.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), May 22, 2001.

Obviously I have more of an imagination than you. I can imagine a woman described this way, ready for yard work AND I can also imagine an elegantly dressed woman.

Can you imagine refering to a woman in capri pants and flip flops as elegantly dressed? ;-)

Exactly my point Tar, you know because you know, how laughable is that! Have you ever seen workers dressed in silicon valley (the IT industry)?

Maria, are you hard of reading or just particularly stupid today? I can't believe I have to post this a third time.

Our dresscode is pretty SOP for the industry, outside of SV.

Sorry Maria. Once again, you lose.

I would have a lot MORE respect for the biker who shows up in his usual attire because that's who he is than some Tarzan who bends over to the establishment to beg for a little mercy.

I would prefer to spend as little time as possible in jail and as little money as possible on a fine. I'm just funny that way. I also believe that dressing up for interviews shows that you know how a professional should dress and you want the job.

BTW, would a sleeveless top be acceptable attire for a woman to wear to an abortion, or do you insist they show up in buisness attire? IOW is going to court more of a "serious matter" to you than killing your own baby?

Actually, most women show up dressed as comfortably as possible, as they would for any medical procedure.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

Tarzan, pay no mind to the alkie maria. Admittedly she is a drunk.

-- bwaaaaawwaa (mariais@drunk.too), May 22, 2001.

Casual, smasual......

I'm waiting on her to don that topless sleeve thing......

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), May 22, 2001.

I'm in HR for a technology company and I can tell you that Tarzan's policy sounds a lot like ours. I don't know of any company, even in Silicon Valley, that doesn't set at least some kind of a guideline. Not having a guideline would be an open invitation to a lawsuit, if not from the woman whose hotpants were distracting then from the person of faith who felt offended and oppressed by an anti-religious slogan on a shirt.

-- HR Hannah (HR@hannah.com), May 22, 2001.

Why don't you ask Maria what she wore to her two abortions?

-- (anonymous.trolls@make.me.ill), May 22, 2001.

Oh so that's what SV means! Thanks for your caveat, Tar. A standard is anything you want it to be. If you exclude certain accepted IT industry attire, it a standard for you. How convenient (in church lady speak)!

HR Hannah, I'm not saying there shouldn't be standards. I believe that schools should force kids to wear uniforms. I just don't think that Tar should judge someone without first seeing what the person was wearing.

Tar, "I'm sure you'll disagree with me on this point, but anytime you are up for sentencing you should present yourself in the best light possible, including your clothing." I actually agree with you on this. But you have no clue what the hell she was wearing. You're ready to condemn her based on some description. Your imagination won't allow you to conceive of anything but "inappropriate" attire. And finally, take your attitude about my reading capability and shove it up your ass, you fucking prick. :)

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

Why don't you ask Maria what she wore to her two abortions?

-- (anonymous.trolls@make.me.ill), May 22, 2001.

Now that *is* funny!

Obviously you miss the irony of it. Tar is all for a woman's right when it comes to abortion but not when it comes to sleeveless tops in the workplace. Oh my, a woman shows her bare naked arms, sentence her to prison!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

Oh so that's what SV means! Thanks for your caveat, Tar.

Sure. Anytime you need help with the more difficult words or abbreviations, please don't hesitate to ask.

But you have no clue what the hell she was wearing. You're ready to condemn her based on some description.

I know exactly what she was wearing. And so do you. From the original article:

Bush, dressed in lilac pants, a sleeveless black top and sandals, nodded and answered only ``yes'' or ``no'' throughout the hearing.

From the MSNBC article:

The University of Texas freshman appeared before the judge wearing a sleeveless black shirt, pink capri pants and black flip-flops that exposed a toe ring on her right foot.

Here's a picture of her torso from CNN (they use the Reuters story originally quoted above)

Your imagination won't allow you to conceive of anything but "inappropriate" attire.

Actually, I haven't referred to Jenna Bush's attire as inappropriate, but instead "entirely too casual". However, in deference to your obvious limitations, I'll give you a pass on this mistake.

If you can imagine an occasion where flip flops are appropriate courtroom attire (other than getting arrested at a pool party, barbecue, beach, or shower stall) then you must have the best imagination in the world. :-)

And finally, take your attitude about my reading capability and shove it up your ass, you fucking prick.

Ah, sweet obscenities. The last resort of a semi-illiterate.

Tar is all for a woman's right when it comes to abortion but not when it comes to sleeveless tops in the workplace.

Actually, I have no problem with women showing their arms, or any other part of their anatomy at work. In some cases, I even encourage it. However, it goes against the dresscode in my company and most others in my industry.

And what on earth do sleevless shirts have to do with abortion anyway?

Oh my, a woman shows her bare naked arms, sentence her to prison!

My dear, you really should take a deep breath and count to ten before you snap your girdle.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

Maria you stupid cunt that post was to the anonymous troll who asked Tarzan about abortion. I wanted the troll to know about the hypocrite he's agreeing.

-- (anonymous.trolls@make.me.ill), May 22, 2001.

Fellow anonymous troll (the one who apparently hates themself),

Why don't you finish your sentences if you want people to know what you are trying to say? And while you're at it, wash your mouth out with soap.

Tarzan,

"And finally, take your attitude about my reading capability and shove it up your ass, you fucking prick.

Ah, sweet obscenities. The last resort of a semi-illiterate. "

You keep getting better and better tarz, first spend multiple (and I do mean multiple!) posts insulting Maria and then criticize her when she gets tired of it! I do wish I could see you in a social setting sometime, you must be a laugh-riot at a party.

-- Abortion (Is@worse.than.going.sleeveless.dumbo), May 22, 2001.

Sorry my friend, but you are late to the discussion between Maria and myself. What you are witnessing is nothing more than banter; Maria lies about my posts and I question her intelligence, meager though it might be. Maria defines herself by disagreeing with whatever I say and I reward her by giving her something to rail against. She seems to enjoy it very much, because no matter how much of a vein-popping, frothing at the mouth tizzy she works herself into, she always comes back for more. Unfortunately, Maria is always outmatched. You see, though my remarks about her are often cutting, I have yet to reduce myself to her level by engaging in gutter speech. I'm not opposed to obscenities mind you, it's just that they're often the hallmark of the less intelligent.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

"I'm not opposed to obscenities mind you, it's just that they're often the hallmark of the less intelligent."

Do you constantly belittle your associates with "not the sharpest tool in the drawer" and "in deference to your obvious mental shortcomings" and "Poor little dullard"? What do your associates do when you throw out remarks like these? Do they turn around and treat you with any respect? Do you expect me to treat you with any respect?

So, Tar these little quips are to exemplify your superior intelligence (on women's dress in the workplace and in court) which so profoundly outmatches mine? Do you understand how asinine you truly sound? You know more than I on appropriate women's attire in all life situations (just like you know more than I do on nuclear weapons).

You passed judgement on Jenna's attire without knowing the full "picture" and you tried to justify it. I said it was no big deal to "bear" arms and you thought you needed to correct me. You actually believe that this is some show of "intelligence". Sad, truly sad.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 22, 2001.

Tarzan might really know as much about women's clothes as you do. After all, some homosexuals are VERY fashion conscious, and we don't really know if Tarzan's SO is real or not.

(to Anons) Tarzan LOVES sticking up for homosexuals, so my comments here are in no way an insult to tarzan, he'd be Proud to be a homosexual, so don't bother commenting on this, just ponder it deeply, like a slow moving river you can't conceive of the bottom of...

-- More (cow@pies.for.tarzans.fire), May 22, 2001.

I fully support a woman's right to bare arms. It's in the Second Amendment, t'ain't it?

-- Already Done Happened (oh.yeah@it.did.com), May 22, 2001.

Do you constantly belittle your associates with "not the sharpest tool in the drawer" and "in deference to your obvious mental shortcomings" and "Poor little dullard"?

No. I do not suffer fools gladly and when confronted with the mentally deficient I usually avoid them. Would that were possible here. However, your fawning pleas for attention seem to force you into creating arguments out of the thinnest premise. I try to avoid them, but I find I'm tempted by your ever-more bizarre antics in the effort to define yourself in opposition to me.

Do you expect me to treat you with any respect?

My dear, the only person I expect you to treat with respect is yourself. If you feel insulted, you are certainly welcome to return tit for tat, but please, try to have some sense of personal dignity.

You know more than I on appropriate women's attire in all life situations (just like you know more than I do on nuclear weapons).

No. I simply know that flip flops are not appropriate attire for the courtroom or the boardroom, and that Atlanta, GA is a more likely target for nuclear attack than Remote, OR. Not knowing these things, I imagine that you find life to be excrutiatingly difficult. It's no wonder you have such a foul mouth!

You passed judgement on Jenna's attire without knowing the full "picture" and you tried to justify it.

Do I need to post what she was wearing again, Maria? Did you miss it the other times I posted it? Say the word and I'll be glad to help you out!

I said it was no big deal to "bear" arms and you thought you needed to correct me.

Yes. You seemed to be under the assumption that Jenna came to the courthouse to work rather than be sentenced. You said, Lots of women come dressed to work looking very appropriate in sleeveless tops and sandals. Big deal! Then you proceeded to pick a fight, during the course of which you did your rather pitiful best to misrepresent my point into something that would be easy to oppose. Unfortunately, you found yourself blocked at every turn, and in frustration resorted to obscenities. Isn't it frustrating when the object of your attention won't cooperate with your delusion?

You actually believe that this is some show of "intelligence".

On the contrary. I believe that equating flip flops with evening wear and spewing obscenities are a show of stupidity. Unless perhaps you live in a trailer park. Then you can be forgiven for your lack of savoir faire.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 22, 2001.

‘More’, the Monkey Boy would have us believe that his so-called SO is a black woman. You ever meet a sister that would put up with this sorry fool for 5 minutes? Give me a break.

-- BS (from@monkey.boy), May 22, 2001.

It would take years to delve into his psyche. For example, why would he post something like this:

"No. I do not suffer fools gladly and when confronted with the mentally deficient I usually avoid them. Would that were possible here."

Obviously this is an internet forum and one can easily avoid anything with the click of a button. But no, he says he can't avoid the "mentally deficient" on this forum.

"However, your fawning pleas for attention seem to force you into creating arguments out of the thinnest premise. I try to avoid them, but I find I'm tempted by your ever-more bizarre antics in the effort to define yourself in opposition to me."

And this is certainly his view as he indicated here, "Damn Maria, you'll pick a fight about anything, won't you?" And let's look at the previous posts which led him to his conclusion:

Maria: Tar, SOP for the IT industry is exactly what your company does. LOL

Tarzan: Grasping at straws again, eh Maria? Poor little dullard.

Maria: And of course women showing naked arms is NOT looking "your absolute best". Tar knows, HE'S in the IT industry, the standards for dressing in the workplace.

How does any rational person conclude that Maria is "picking a fight" or "creating arguments"? I ask you, what "bizarre antics" did Maria use to "define an opposition" to Tarzan? Maria questioned Tarzan's source for his opinion and Tarzan felt he needed to defend his opinion as fact and verbally attacked Maria.

Obviously Tarzan has some innate need to not simply admit he has an opinion about a topic and feels he has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he IS RIGHT. He finds he can't avoid the "mentally deficient" but rather attacks and then accuses the other person of "picking a fight" in the process. It's analogous to beating your wife, then telling the police it was her fault she didn't cook the dinner properly.

Maybe that's it. He's been made to feel so inferior in real life that he has the overwhelming urge to beat others (not in real life of course because they would fight back but only in the safe confines of this internet forum) and feel superior. Shadow attempted to analysis this but I think he concentrated on the father aspect too much. It may not have been his father at all that oppressed Tarzan. But it is now fact that Tarzan is a control freak. Please get some help!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 23, 2001.

Hee. Maria is a drunk in recovery not practicing principles in all her affairs and Tarzan has jungle fever. What a match. Say, why dont you two get together and share some love? sleeveless of course.

-- tit for tat (just@another.troll), May 23, 2001.

"Obviously this is an internet forum and one can easily avoid anything with the click of a button."

As far as I can tell, you seem to follow Tarzan from thread to thread trying to pick an argument about the most stupid crap imagineable. I used to think that you and Tarzan were the same person but I don't think anyone who can afford an internet connection has that kind of time.

"Maria: Tar, SOP for the IT industry is exactly what your company does. LOL

Tarzan: Grasping at straws again, eh Maria? Poor little dullard."

Here's a classic example. Tarzan posts what seems to be a reasonable assumption, that his company is normal for his industry. You post nothing but a sarcastic post implying he's wrong (but not saying it out right I noticed). Then Tarzan jabs back at you for so obviously picking a fight.

"How does any rational person conclude that Maria is "picking a fight" or "creating arguments"?"

Did you mean to refer to yourself in the third person or did you actually mean to post this under another name but forgot and posted it as yourself?

Either way you brought this shit storm on yourself. Personally I get a big laugh over watching you two battle it out, so thank-you.

"I ask you, what "bizarre antics" did Maria use to "define an opposition" to Tarzan? Maria questioned Tarzan's source for his opinion and Tarzan felt he needed to defend his opinion as fact and verbally attacked Maria."

You didn't question anything. All you did was repeat Tarzan with a couple of sarcastic comments thrown in, then you started crying when Monkey Boy hit back at you.

"Obviously Tarzan has some innate need to not simply admit he has an opinion about a topic and feels he has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he IS RIGHT."

I know Tarzan can defend himself but this is just too funny! You've tried to say all sorts of crap that Tarzan never said, like saying that Tarzan knows how everyone in every industry should dress based on how he dresses or how women everywhere should dress. All Tarzan said was how people in his company and his industry should dress. Okay, he called you stupid a few times which I thought was a low blow but now I think maybe he was right.

"It's analogous to beating your wife, then telling the police it was her fault she didn't cook the dinner properly."

A better analogy would be for a wife to slap her husband and then accuse him of battery when he slaps her back.

Please keep whining. I can't wait for Monkey Boy's next response. This is the best free entertainment I get all week!

-- Observer (observer@sawit.all), May 23, 2001.

Did you mean to refer to yourself in the third person or did you actually mean to post this under another name but forgot and posted it as yourself?

I think Maria meant to post this under a troll name but screwed up and posted it as herself. I think she's got a rather unhealthy obsession with Tarzan, fueled by Tarzan's antagonism. It is funny to watch in a cruel sort of way.

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), May 23, 2001.

He may be a control freak but I seriously doubt that he has any such status in his ‘real’ life. These Internet forums are a breeding ground for false personas and allow the loners and losers of the world to re-create themselves. There is no harm in that but it would be foolish to assume that anyone posting to THIS forum is not participating as his or her alter ego.

For instance, allow me to play amateur psychologist for a minute.

I see ‘Tarzan’ as a very lonely person, one who lives by himself with little or no social life. He is extremely argumentative but has no audience IRL, hence his relentless and lengthy postings to this site. I suspect that he sees himself as unattractive and avoids going out in public. I doubt that he has had any female sexual contact for many years, and that will continue. Due to his self-perceived inadequacies, he is uncomfortable around other people and females in particular.

Internet forums have provided Tarzan with the soapbox he so craves but would never achieve IRL. No harm in that is there?

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 23, 2001.

"There is no harm in that but it would be foolish to assume that anyone posting to THIS forum is not participating as his or her alter ego."

Based on this, I can tell that you are a college drop-out who majored in Psych but just couldn't hack anything beyond the first couple of weeks of Human Psychology 101. I see you as someone who is severly passive-aggressive, lacking the nerve to ever criticize someone openly. Instead, you make back-handed insults disguised as analysis without ever realizing that you are painfully transparent to everyone who reads your ramblings. You seem to engage in a great deal of displacement, accusing everyone you "analyze" as being lonely and sexually frustrated, leaving little doubt that it is your perceived faults that you are attributing to others. My guess is that you spend your time reading pop psychology and working at a job that pays enough to live on, frustrated by the fact that you must pay for your student loans even though you never actually graduated from college. You are an angry, bitter person who nevertheless lacks the strength to face the source of this anger, so your issues are never addressed and will never be resolved. Fortunately, your amateur analysis provides you with an outlet for this anger, so it's unlikely that you will turn on the folks at Sallie Mae. We can look forward to more of the same from you, since your deepseated problems will require intensive long-term counseling combined with a strong regimen of psycho-active drugs.

-- Sick of Them All (sick@of.dimestore.psychics), May 23, 2001.

Obviously this is an internet forum and one can easily avoid anything with the click of a button. But no, he says he can't avoid the "mentally deficient" on this forum.

I can see you have failed to take that rudimentary Reading for Comprehension course I suggested to you. While I do not suffer fools gladly and avoid the mentally deficient whenever possible, I find it's impossible in this case because:However, your fawning pleas for attention seem to force you into creating arguments out of the thinnest premise. I try to avoid them, but I find I'm tempted by your ever-more bizarre antics in the effort to define yourself in opposition to me.

I'm only a man, Maria, and I can only resist so much temptation for so long. Cut me and I bleed. Say something stupid, and I point it out.

How does any rational person conclude that Maria is "picking a fight" or "creating arguments"? I ask you, what "bizarre antics" did Maria use to "define an opposition" to Tarzan?

Well for starters, most folks would say that describing flip-flops as elegant is pretty bizarre.

:-)

Then there are the other bizarre antics you have gone to in other threads. For instance, offering to exchange government secrets with me in the nuclear thread. Claiming that a stack of pamphlets is the equivalent of pre-natal care in the contraception thread. On the same thread, you said that advocating pre-natal care set the woman's rights movement back several years. I could go on and on. But you get the picture.

I don't really believe that you think flip-flops are elegant shoes, or that Remote, OR is just as likely a target for attack as Atlanta, and I don't really believe you think encouraging pre-natal care amounts to "setting the women's movement back several years". I think you will do or say just about anything to disagree with me on any subject where disagreement is remotely possible. This thread is a good example. You had to twist the topic from Jenna Bush's courtroom attire to workplace dresscodes just to find something to disagree with me on. When you didn't get what you were looking for, you had to misrepresent my viewpoint (read: lie) several times in order to stir up controversy.

I must admit, I take a certain base pleasure in watching you twitch and squirm, morphing your arguments into ever more grotesque mutations until you find yourself faced with statements you did not mean and do not agree with. However, the spewing of obscenities and the pop psychology routine are getting a bit hackneyed. Maybe you should take a break for awhile and get your edge back? Perhaps you could take a nice vacation on a cruise, somewhere people aren't allowed to be disagreeable. Or maybe you could go to Disneyland/Disneyworld, the happiest place(s) on earth and find your center. Perhaps you could even bring along a copy of "Hooked on Phonics" and brush up on your reading skills while you're standing in line for Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. Good luck!

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 23, 2001.

I think Jenna (and Barbara for that matter) is an extremely attractive woman. Now this has nothing to do with this thread, but it is no less relevant than the last 20 or so posts.

-- Dr. Pibb (dr.pibb@zdnetonebox.com), May 23, 2001.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Maria is Lay Down?

Also, I noticed that Maria brought up domestic violence in her last post as herself (even if it was meant to be posted under someone else's name). On the nuke thread, a troll named Verdoctor used a similar analogy. How likely is it that a freshly-minted troll comes out of nowhere on a thread that's about a mile long using the same analogy Maria used here, in a post she obviously meant to make under a troll name?

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), May 23, 2001.

leave maria alone. she is a nice person. she is not a coward like all the trolls. Maria, we love you man.

-- troller (just@another.one), May 23, 2001.

Maria = everybody

-- (dudesy@37.com), May 23, 2001.

funny how all the bickering has ceased. and where the heck is the rest of the forum members?

-- b o r i n g (yawn@this.forum), May 23, 2001.

Maria = Tarzan. The real question is which is pre and post medication?

-- Psych (for@novices.here), May 23, 2001.

Where are they? Trolls have ran the decent folks off. There are a few good folks left here, just a few. Well hell all they want to do is slam everyone with an opinion differing from theirs. See what happens when you do uncensored? All should be ashamed.

-- face it (the@real.truth), May 23, 2001.

BS,

Too true. If it weren't for the Jerry Springer show, I'd agree 100%, but who knows what tarzan's definition of a "woman" is? Maybe it's someone who (regardless of their (male) anatomical limitations) BELIEVES they are a woman? The doublethink/speak would sure fit his pattern.

-- Wouldn't (suprise@me.nope), May 23, 2001.

Thanks for the laughs, guys, I really needed it today! LOL

Observer: A better analogy would be for a wife to slap her husband and then accuse him of battery when he slaps her back. (So a slap deserves a return slap from a husband?)

Polly: I think Maria meant to post this under a troll name but screwed up and posted it as herself. (An article or book never had the author write in the third person?)

Sick: We can look forward to more of the same from you, since your deepseated problems will require intensive long-term counseling combined with a strong regimen of psycho-active drugs. (Some deepseated hostility in yourself, sick?)

Tar: I'm only a man, Maria, and I can only resist so much temptation for so long. Cut me and I bleed. Say something stupid, and I point it out. (You definitely have my sympathy with this, Tar)

And of course dudesy and Polly trying to deceiver who posts under whose name.

Dr. Pibb, thread topics never really stay on course. You can continue with those positive remarks anytime.

Troller and Lay Down, whoever you are, Thanks!

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 23, 2001.

"(An article or book never had the author write in the third person?)"

Authors generally refer to themselves in the third person when they write fiction.

You screwed up and got caught. Be an adult, own up to it, and move on.

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), May 23, 2001.

You're right, Maria, I am hostile. I'm sick of this armchair psychiatrist troll coming out of the woodwork everytime one of the regulars has the nerve to actually post an opinion. I'm sick of weak- minded idiots rushing to his (you're?) defense just because he's ragging on someone they don't like without realizing what an obvious, cheap tactic it is. His analyses not even vary by much. All his posts amount to are "(NAME)doesn't have many friends and doesn't have sex often and is unhappy because of it," What an intelligent post! How freaking insightful! Why not save some time and just call Tarzan pizza face for crying out loud?

The ones that really get on my nerves are the mental giants who are so impressed by his paint-by-the-numbers insults that they try to steal his act, coming up with such deep statements as "Tarzan's a control freak because he disagrees with me,"

I'm not defending Tarzan here per se, it's just I'm finally fed up with amateur hour at the psych ward and Tarzan was the latest target. If Dr. Freud had chosen to insert your name in his one- analysis-fit-all MO I'd still be here busting his chops.

-- Sick of Them All (sick.of@dimestore.psychics), May 23, 2001.

Sick, while I definitely got a hoot out of your posts this AM, I think you, like Maria, are beginning to take this place a little too seriously. Frothing at the mouth over anything, whether their Jenna Bush's flip-flops, Maria's apparent alter-egos, or wanna-be psychs is a sign you need to take a few deep breaths and relax.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 23, 2001.

Sick,

A helpful translation from Tarzanspeak:

"Thanks for the support, but I'm too far above you to care".

-- More (crap@from.tarzan), May 23, 2001.

Not at all. Unlike some I don't count one poster's criticism of another as support. I do admire Sick's tactic of giving Lay Down some of his own medicine, but I think that anyone who expends so much energy on this forum that they become outraged, or obsessed with the sex lives of other posters, needs to take a break and remind themselves that it's only words on a screen.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 23, 2001.

Ah ‘sick’, your rantings are exposing you as the insecure, social outcast that you are. You need not take out your frustrations here, just because you failed to reach the ‘spacebar’ while taking the penile length test. Change your focus to oral sex and you might find a partner, assuming you have no gender preference.

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 24, 2001.

Hey Tar, I'm going to a picnic this Saturday but it's a company picnic. The CEO will be there. What should I wear?

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 24, 2001.

Given your fondness for elegant footwear, I suggest flip-flops.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

Maria, the CEO you say? 'Nothing' might work quite well ;>)

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 24, 2001.

Maria should definitely wear clothes, preferably an outfit that shows as little skin as humanly possible.

-- BLEECCCHH! (blech@yuck.barf), May 24, 2001.

Tarzan, although rude I found that crack most delightful. But in reality I was thinking of Maria's quick quip as great also. But the award goes to Laid for the nothing comment. I am still trying to understand how this went to where it is for it surely will remain the thread that will not die. What I would give to see you both battling with wits in person.

-- for your thoughts (just@my.2pennies), May 24, 2001.

"You need not take out your frustrations here, just because you failed to reach the ‘spacebar’ while taking the penile length test. Change your focus to oral sex and you might find a partner, assuming you have no gender preference."

Of course I failed the test. I'm a woman. This post is a classic example of your attempt to displace your anxieities around your sexuality. Anyone who attempts to criticize you is immediately labled as having inadequate sexual organs and indeterminate sexuality. While this is a common insult among uncertain school boys, most adults abandon this shortly after puberty. It's safe to say that either you're stuck in adolescence or you have deep rooted fears about the size of your own penis and what that might mean for your sexuality. This is especially true in light of the sexist bravado you exhibited in telling Maria to go to her company picnic nude. You are desperately trying to shore up your masculinity by questioning the masculinity of others and by proving your heterosexuality.

The only answer to your quandry is to accept that maybe you do have a penis that's not as big as some, but when you find a partner (of whatever gender), it's the love, not the size, that matters.

Good luck in your search!

-- Sick of Them All (sick.of@dimestore.psychics), May 24, 2001.

LD, how'd you know. It is going to be at a nudist camp. Thanks for your suggestion Tar! The flip-flops would be the perfect footwear.

For your thoughts, How this thread went? I know, I know. Tar salted his every response to me with cuts. I had enough and called him a fucking prick. Taking an "above it all" attitude he turned around with, using obscenity *is* a sign of low intelligence. The asshole doesn't even read his writing. He's so entrenched in his self-loathing, he has no clue about the hostility he projects. Or he knows he projects the hostility but continues because it soothes a subconscious hurt. And after the exchange of fire, he does a victory dance over his self-declared win. He thinks this as normal socially acceptable behavior. I find it sad.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 24, 2001.

Me too. I'd love to see the look on her face when she's reduced to spewing obscenities and non-sequitors as she so often is here. I'll bet she even has a little vein near her temple that goes thump thump every time she reads what I write.

Now watch, Maria will repeat her performance after the contraception thread and post a new thread dedicated to misrepresenting what I said here. I can hardly wait!

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

"He's so entrenched in his self-loathing, he has no clue about the hostility he projects."

As far as I can tell, Tarzan is deeply in love with himself and takes great pride in poking other people 'til they freak. I haven't seen any signs of self-loathing on his part. I do think he gets rude unnecessarily, but I also think he was right on the money when he said you should have more respect for yourself than to curse like a sailor.

-- Polly Wanna Cracker (polly@wanna.cracker), May 24, 2001.

And after the exchange of fire, he does a victory dance over his self-declared win. He thinks this as normal socially acceptable behavior. I find it sad.

Sour grapes from sour people, baby.

XOXOXOXO

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

Tar, you really do need a lesson in reading! You accuse me but you are the one with the reading problem. "dedicated"?! It was dedicated to women about their childbirth experiences, not you, you egotistical moron. LOL that's just too funny! Maybe I will start a new thread with your understanding of the English word. I try to keep it simple for you but it's not good enough. Maybe I need to write in one syllable words only.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 24, 2001.

Sure it was, Maria. In fact, your entire premise for this thread hinged on the distortion of my POV from the contraception thread. Here's a link since you seem to be incapable of remembering anything past the time you write it.

And I do think it would be a good idea for you to concentrate on monosyllabic words. Maybe once you master them, you can actually keep up with me without having to resort to obscenities.

:-)

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

Bullhockey. Doublestandard. Men can curse no ape man I'm not addressing you...just yet, but females are sailors with no respect for themselves? Again bull. If you have been around along time why is it that you never addressed the infamous Hawk in like fashion? He was pretty nasty but he was reportedly a male. Tarzan you are beginning to be the new resident Flint.

As for the victory dance, picture ape man dancing around with his dick in his hand. Is that not a song? Here comes Tarz with his dick in his hand hes a ONE man band and he's off to the rodeo?

Ok maria, you can laugh now.

-- just a friend. (stickinup@for.maria), May 24, 2001.

That thread you posted is pretty damning Tarzan. I read the contraception thread but missed this one. LN sums it up "My "male" point of view is that it is lowdown and sneaky to paraphrase Tarzan very inaccurately from another thread and not to give a link to that thread so people could see how badly you are misrepresenting his point of view."

This lady is really obsessed with you, so much so that she can't seem to seperate reality from her fantasy life. If I were you I would be very careful how much more you reveal about your personal life. Someone this delusional could easily be dangerous.

Maria, please get help. Quick.

-- Sick of Them All (sick.of@dimestore.psychics), May 24, 2001.

Just,

"Here comes Tarz with his dick in his hand hes a ONE man band and he's off to the rodeo? "

Who sang that!!? Wasn't the original something like "here comes johnny with his pecker in his hand and he's off to the rodeo?

-- Enquiring (minds@want.to.know), May 24, 2001.

OK Tar, let me help your reading. I asked, "How do you feel about this attitude?" The attitude can be found in the previous paragraph, "pregnant women were treated "specially" . . . [I] found this attitude annoying at the very least." Even when a fan of Tar wanted to continue with the contraception thread, I responded with a very terse comment and "Thanks for your view." I didn't respond to any other "contraception" comments. I continued to discuss women's childbirth experiences while others (including LN) tried to get it back to insurance. Also Tar you tried to get it into some other abortion discussion (something from Poole's thread?) that I didn't care to follow.

Another problem you have Tar is that you don't see the truth when it's presented right in front of you. Let me know if you need me to explain any other writings.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 24, 2001.

Thanks for the note of caution, Sick, but I think I can handle it.

OK Tar, let me help your reading. I asked, "How do you feel about this attitude?"

Unfortunately, sweetie, your opening two sentences began with lies about my POV on the contraception thread. You were asking for input on an attitude you misattributed to me.

Even when a fan of Tar wanted to continue with the contraception thread, I responded with a very terse comment and "Thanks for your view." I didn't respond to any other "contraception" comments.

That's not the point. What is the point here is that you started a new thread based on lies about my statements and point of views. You were called on it several times, and didn't respond. I'm not very surprised by that, of course since you seem to have a very casual acquaintance with the truth.

I continued to discuss women's childbirth experiences while others (including LN) tried to get it back to insurance.

The only context insurance was mentioned in was that you were lying about my statements from a thread about insurance. No one tried to turn the discussion into anything about insurance.

Also Tar you tried to get it into some other abortion discussion (something from Poole's thread?) that I didn't care to follow.

Actually, that was Shadow and some anonytrolls. In fact, when Shadow tried to turn the discussion to abortion, I suggested he started another thread. Which he didn't. Another problem you have Tar is that you don't see the truth when it's presented right in front of you. Let me know if you need me to explain any other writings.

LOL! Your idea of what was happening in that thread is so different from reality that even I'm starting to wonder if you're not delusional. You can't seriously believe all these lies you post, can you?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

Man, I've read this entire thread and that radio station still hasn't played the song I requested. Will any of you play the new single by GRYP for me? LOL!

-- jammy (jammin@with.jammy), May 24, 2001.

You were asking for input on an attitude you misattributed to me. Oh so that's how you translate "dedicated". Hmmm I thought dedicated meant something totally different, like maybe, devoted, constant, committed, (do you get the idea or do I need to give you more information?). I only used your quotes as an introduction, nothing more. You can call it "misattributed". That thread was not "dedicated" to you Tar.

You were called on it several times, and didn't respond. I didn't respond because it was OFF TOPIC. You want to continue the "contraception" thread, bring it back up or start a new thread.

No one tried to turn the discussion into anything about insurance. Did you forget that the "contraception" thread was about insurance, to which LN provided the link? Oh excuse me; let me be very precise here for your hard of understanding. It was about Medical insurance provided by the State, which will eliminate payments for oral contraception.

Actually, that was Shadow. . . As I stated above, "I didn't care to follow".

I'm starting to wonder if you're not delusional. How does a psychotic know the meaning of delusional? Don't bother to answer Tar, it's only a hypothetical question. Do you need me to explain it any further or can you get my drift? Oh let me precise; I don't mean "drift" in the sense of "float" but rather "point".

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 24, 2001.

Hmmm I thought dedicated meant something totally different, like maybe, devoted, constant, committed, (do you get the idea or do I need to give you more information?). I only used your quotes as an introduction, nothing more.

Actually, you hung your whole point on the lies you attributed to me. Without those lies, you would not have had a thread. That's dedication in anyone's book, provided, of course, that they are capable of telling truth from lies.

You can call it "misattributed". That thread was not "dedicated" to you Tar.

No. The thread was "...dedicated to misrepresenting what I said here." I didn't respond because it was OFF TOPIC. You want to continue the "contraception" thread, bring it back up or start a new thread.

Oh come now, Maria. You've had no problem going off topic before. Suddenly, when several people point out that you are lying, you want to stay on topic.

Did you forget that the "contraception" thread was about insurance, to which LN provided the link?

Did you forget that LN provided a link to the contraception thread because you lied about my statements?

It was about Medical insurance provided by the State, which will eliminate payments for oral contraception.

Actually, it was about George Bush's budget proposal, which eliminated ALL contraceptive coverage.

As I stated above, "I didn't care to follow".

I'm not really surprised. It's part of your pattern. Lie about someone's statements, and when confronted about lying, refuse to discuss it.

How does a psychotic know the meaning of delusional?

You should try looking up WebMD's medical dictionary Maria. Please let me know if you need some help.

:-)

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

Maria,

"How does a psychotic know the meaning of delusional?

You should try looking up WebMD's medical dictionary Maria. "

At least tarzan gave you a straight answer for once. A psychotic like him can still use WebMD's dictionary to look up words like "delusional". Hopefully though, he isn't functional enough to have a driver's license.

-- At (least@tarzan.wastes.his.time.responding.to.everyone), May 24, 2001.

Coming from you, psychotic is a compliment.

:-)

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

The rodeo song. I can not recall who it was done by. Great Song and so fitting, you know? Mental picture of ape dude with pecker in his hand dancing around his keyboard. Hi ho silver away.

-- dudewoman (kickin@back.chillin), May 24, 2001.

Oh Tar you're just way too easy. Ya know, after I posted my "dedicated" comment, I expected you to go frantically through the archives and post the link. Guess what, you did just that! (and sick thinks I'M obsessed.) Then after my "psychotic" comment, I expected you to search through your dictionaries looking for some kind of retort. And you disappointed me; instead you come back with a comment so similar to "I know you are but what am I" that it made me chuckle. OK I'll stop now.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 24, 2001.

Oh Tar you're just way too easy. Ya know, after I posted my "dedicated" comment, I expected you to go frantically through the archives and post the link. Guess what, you did just that! (and sick thinks I'M obsessed.)

No frantic search involved. All you have to do is know some basic web search techniques, and less than a minute later, I had the thread. I appreciate the sentiments, but you really must try to remember the difference between fantasy and reality.

Then after my "psychotic" comment, I expected you to search through your dictionaries looking for some kind of retort. And you disappointed me; instead you come back with a comment so similar to "I know you are but what am I" that it made me chuckle. OK I'll stop now.

Sorry Maria. I just didn't feel like expending much effort in responding to name-calling. I know it's the best you can do, but such a weak tactic doesn't deserve much of a response. On a more positive note however, I want to congratulate you on managing to post several lines of text without spewing obscenities. That is a significant improvement. Keep up the hard work!

:-)

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), May 24, 2001.

If you take all of Maria's trolls into account she hasn't really gone that long without swearing.

-- (dumbya's_daughter_@holier._than_thou), May 24, 2001.

dudewoman,

add to that the whole scenario occurring at his *work* and you have the unfortunate picture I'm left with.

-- BRRR (Thank@god.for.cubicles.and.doors), May 24, 2001.

Gryp? I thought they broke up?

-- edl (every@day.life), May 25, 2001.

Tarzan's said before he works for a company that doesn't care what its employees do on the web so long as they get their work done. God only knows what Maria's bosses think of all this.

-- (dumbya's_daughter_@_holier._than_thou), May 25, 2001.

dudewoman

I believe The Rodeo Song was done by The Outlaws.

If you're talking about the song with the line 'fuckin' jerk, piss me off!'.

That the one?? I got it off Napster a while back. Very funny song!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), May 25, 2001.

Ted (is that you?), GRYP almost broke up after their drummer quit, but a new drummer volunteered. He helps with songwriting and has greatly influenced their music. I never cared for their first album, but the new stuff has added some cool melody while keeping the heaviness of the first album.

On the other hand Ted, your music seems to stagnate or get even hokier on each progressive album. LOL!

-- jammy (jammin@with.jammy), May 25, 2001.

(dumbya's_daughter,

"Tarzan's said before he works for a company that doesn't care what its employees do on the web so long as they get their work done. God only knows what Maria's bosses think of all this. "

No one was talking about what tarzan's bosses thought of what he posted, except you. READ the thread. What do you think tarzan's boss thinks about him dancing around his computer at work holding his pecker and singing a happy tune? (keeping in mind he believes it's inappropriate for women to wear sleaveless tops to work)

--

-- Why (can't@we.be.friends), May 25, 2001.

Why do you care so very much about what Tarzan does with his dick, Maria? How come you can't concentrate on what he says and not on his private parts?

Enquiring minds want to know.

-- (here@it.is), May 25, 2001.

Maria was not the one who was making light of Tarzan dancing on office time. But do us a favor and at least get it in your head. It is funny if you can picture it. Hi hoe silver away. But if he is getting paid to swing around his pee-wee I am all for it. Next.

-- comes Tarzan with his (rodeo@song.here), May 25, 2001.

Why don't you post by your real name?

Because that wasn't me who posted that, you troll (even with your enquiring mind you can't think for yourself, stick with the trash papers). I do "concentrate" on what he posts; however, no amount of concentration will make any sense of his contradictions and weasle words. I could care less about his private parts and only commented that he's a fucking prick (but that really goes to his whole being and not just his dick). Actually the thought of a skinny kid with pimples doesn't allow me to "concentrate" very long on that image.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 25, 2001.

After reading all the posts on this thread I can safely say that there certainly is someone using contradictions and weasel words, but it sure isn't Tarzan.

I'll pray for you and your mental health, Maria. Good luck in your efforts to heal.

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), May 25, 2001.

Sorry, dudewoman, we posted at the same time. That wasn't meant for you.

Oh Polly, you really think I need mental healing? Oh my, I guess you're right. Gee, thanks for taking the time to try to help me through the potholes of life. I do so appreciate it. You're one hellofa guy.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 25, 2001.

Hmmm... a tough thread to call.

Technically Tarzan won by standing on his statement that lots of companies don't allow sleeveless shirts or sandals in the workplace despites Maria's best efforts to twist his words around.

However, Tarzan did make some pretty low blows, even though Maria started it. On account of this, I declare this contest to be a draw.

The only losers here folks are those of us who actually kept reading this thread once Maria started to go insane.

-- Score Keeper (score@keeper.me), May 25, 2001.

"Gee, thanks for taking the time to try to help me through the potholes of life. I do so appreciate it. You're one hellofa guy."

I didn't think you could be gracious after such a long, losing battle. Good for you!

-- Polly Wanna Cracker? (polly@wanna.cracker), May 25, 2001.

Maria, do you ever find you get lonely talking to yourself through all these troll?

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 25, 2001.

That would be "troll S" you forgot the S. I am willing to bet that there are not as many trollS as you perceive. Lay you appear to want people to lay down if I'm correct, so tell us what do you do IF we decide to take you up on laying down? These curious minds would like to know.

Scorekeep, incorrect I say Maria is a little up on Tarzan. You must have missed a line.

-- here comes (rodeo@song.well), May 25, 2001.

Nope. I went back and re-read it, Tarzan is the clear winner technically. His low-blows disqualified him however.

How come we all lose when these two fight?

-- Score Keeper (score@keeper.me), May 25, 2001.

I must be bored today. I went back to re-read some of the posts and I found them very amusing. Here's one from Tar:

(From me): But you have no clue what the hell she was wearing. You're ready to condemn her based on some description.

(From Tar): I know exactly what she was wearing. And so do you. From the original article:

Bush, dressed in lilac pants, a sleeveless black top and sandals, nodded and answered only ``yes'' or ``no'' throughout the hearing.

From the MSNBC article:

The University of Texas freshman appeared before the judge wearing a sleeveless black shirt, pink capri pants and black flip-flops that exposed a toe ring on her right foot.

Here's a picture of her torso from CNN (they use the Reuters story originally quoted above)

Both those articles contradicted each other, yet as Tar states, he knows "exactly what she was wearing". One article says top, the other says shirt (the picture shows a tank top). One says sandals, the other says flip-flops. One says lilac, the other says pink. Two totally different images. Score-keeper you need to learn how to count first before you're able to keep score.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), May 25, 2001.

I also missed the toe ring. Sincerest apologies.

Tarzan, do you have anything pierced? Tongue, penis, nipple?

-- here comes (rodeo@song.well), May 25, 2001.

Let's see, both articles said she wore light colored pants, both articles said she wore a black, sleeveless top, and both articles said she wore sandals, with one elaborating on the type of sandals she wore.

The only differences are the shade of color her pants were and the type of sandals she wore. Nothing significantly different or contradictory there. In fact, both descriptions are so close to each other that they corroborate each other. You might have a case if one article said she wore shorts and not pants, or if one article said she wore mules and not sandals. As it stands, capris are pants, lilac and pink are almost the same color, and flip flops are sandals.

-- (score@keeper.me), May 25, 2001.

While I was re-reading this thread, I also discovered that Tarzan said "Actually, I have no problem with women showing their arms, or any other part of their anatomy at work. In some cases, I even encourage it. However, it goes against the dresscode in my company and most others in my industry."

This means I was wrong all those times I said Tarzan thinks he knows how women should dress and I was wrong when I said Tarzan thinks women shouldn't wear sleeveless tops. I want to take this opportunity to apologize to Tarzan and everyone else for my error. I don't know what could have come over me. Maybe it was when they replaced my white straitjacket with one that was cream colored and told me they were the same straitjacket. They were both completely different. DIFFERENT DAMNIT DIFFERENT!

-- Maria (obse@ssive.com), May 25, 2001.

Why didn't her secret service protection squad prevent her from drinking?

-- helen (camping@the.woods), May 25, 2001.

Jammy, have you ever recorded an album? Do educate yourself before running off at the mouth.

-- I'm not Ted (every@day.life), May 25, 2001.

Hey fuck head that is using my handle...get your own dip shit.

Not me Maria.

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 25, 2001.

I don't know who you are but I don't appreciate you trying to confuse people by claiming my opinion is not my opinion.

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 25, 2001.

Get Layed. Potato Chips shh Ihear the skank is selling them to suport her kiddie farm. ROFLMFAO. SKANK.

-- (marg@is.ahoe), May 25, 2001.

Yep, truly funny, picture if you will.......

[after posting] A tall, emaciated man with a rash of pimples searing his face dancing around his computer holding his organ, one ball flapping beneath, crooning cole porter tunes, waiting for raggout's apocalypse.

What must his poor co-workers think (in the IT industry!!) when that final RUSH comes?

-- God (Help@his.janitor), May 29, 2001.

Maria you've really got to stop thinking about Tarzan and his dick. I'm really starting to get worried about you.

-- Lay Down (on@the.couch), May 29, 2001.

Isn't it funny when people get cancer? Isn't it easy to make fun of how they're missing a breast or a testicle or a limb? Isn't it amusing when people puke their guts out and lose all their hair? Who can't help but laugh at the worried looks on their faces as they're wheeled in to surgery?

Making fun of a guy just because he lost a nut to cancer is a good way to show how stupid and cruel you are. I pray to God that you will never know how funny it is to wake up in the hospital missing a body part. You'd better hope you're wrong about karma because using someone's illness to make fun of them is a good way to get yourself a bad dose of it.

-- I had cancer too (fuck.you@cancersurvivor.mad), May 29, 2001.

No tit,

One thing Tarzan and I share is atheism, so spare me your karma crap. All it is is a way to keep the populace in check. Do what you want fuckball, you only go around once.

P.S. I spoke to soon, I also agree with him on abortion. The fewer wogs in the world, the better!

-- Quit (yer@whining.you're.here.aren't.you?), May 30, 2001.

Come off it. We all know it's you Maria.

-- I had cancer too (fuck.you@cancersurvivor.mad), May 30, 2001.

Bush daughter used phony ID in new alcohol incident, police say

May 30, 2001 Posted: 1:29 PM EDT (1729 GMT)

AUSTIN, Texas (CNN) -- Jenna Bush, one of President Bush's 19-year-old twin daughters, attempted to buy alcohol Tuesday night at a restaurant here with someone else's identification, a police spokeswoman said.

"She was attempting to purchase alcohol with a valid identification that was not hers," said Laura Albrecht, the police spokeswoman.

She said police responded to a call at Chuey's Mexican restaurant but she could not say how the situation was ultimately handled.

"She wasn't cited. She was not arrested," said Sally Muir, another public information officer. "It's still being investigated. It's not a done deal."

In Washington, the White House declined to comment, saying it was a family matter. Calls to the restaurant and Bush's attorney were not immediately returned.

A senior administration official told CNN that a "not happy" President Bush called his daughter from California Wednesday morning to discuss the incident

Jenna Bush recently pleaded no contest to alcohol possession by a minor and was ordered to take an alcohol awareness class and complete eight hours of community service.

That citation stemmed from an early morning incident on April 27, when plainclothes officers witnessed Bush, a freshman at the University at Texas at Austin, and an unnamed friend drinking alcohol in the nightclub Cheers Shot Bar, located on Austin's popular Sixth Street.

The two girls were given a citation for possession of alcohol for someone under the legal drinking age of 21.

Austin Community Court Judge Elisabeth Earle ordered Bush to pay $51.25 in court costs, attend a six-hour alcohol awareness class and complete eight hours of community service.

Bush has until July 18 to complete the order. If she complies, the offense would be dropped from her permanent record. If she fails to comply, the prosecutor could issue a warrant for her arrest and the misdemeanor offense would go on her record, said Earle.

-- (more trouble @ for. low class white trash), May 30, 2001.