new rules on "other" forum:(

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

Ya'll gotta go over and look at the "new rules" for the "other" forum. Sorry to say I started all that:( But why do I always need to agree with "the powers that be"? I've always liked to think for myself. Besides, how come their opinions on the same issues are not considered political?

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), May 01, 2001

Answers

I don't understand how you think you started it. Ken used to seem like a pretty decent sort of a guy, but this has been a lesson and an example to me- power corrupts people.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), May 01, 2001.

Mary, what got deleted? I hate it when he does that, we never even know half the time that it got deleted, you just get this feeling that something's missing and different.

-- Chamoisee (chamoisee@yahoo.com), May 01, 2001.

How sad. My first impulse is to cancel the magazine, why? because the same man/men in charge of the mag is in charge of the forum. This just blows my mind. What are they gaining? People that love to control others don't have control over their own lives, they just think they do.

Perhaps they should look at who gave the most to the forum. I can't say I had the most posts but I did have around 600. I researched questions and posted a whole bunch of recipes. And I also asked questions to get people thinking.

This may sound corny, but Countryside forum was the first place I thought I belonged, I found people that think like I do. God also used me to witness. How sad.

I'm not enjoying this months mag very much either, so I think I'll cancel til they get a new editor or the new editor wises up.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), May 01, 2001.


Well, I guess I started this one by posting about "Phoenix", the calf who was found among slaughtered animals in Britain,and given a reprieve. I posted knowing Ken would disagree, but feeling my opinion was nevertheless worthwhile. What he deleted was Nan and Chamoisee's responses to my post. He may not have found them interesting, but I did.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), May 01, 2001.

1)There isn't three branches of government. A well armed citizen militia is the fourth.

2)Jesus died to save us all from our sins and deliver us out of hell.

3)Well, I ain't gonna cuss. but: $%^&^

4)PETA stands for People who Eat Tasty Animals. All Animals. All the time. Animals are good food.

5)When the rooster turns around the moon, popsicles fly left-handed.

There.Done.Violates each one of their rules, and in order. The post you could never see at Cside! I wonder if Ms. Moderator is going to censure me!

Seriously though, this is really sad. I wonder if this means they are going to delete Hoots' posts as well? What about the ones in the Archives? I noticed he's been kinda absent lately. I worry about him sometimes.

-- StevenB (thicketyrowfarm@aol.com), May 01, 2001.



Ken assures me that hoot is different. His posts stay.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), May 01, 2001.

This is depressing. I don't want the "other" forum to lose the regulars because of the new rules. I wind down by reading the new posts each night- I'll miss it.

-- Kristin, in La. (positivekharma@aol.com), May 01, 2001.

Ms. Moderator: I have a feeling you are about to get REAL busy here pretty soon...

-- StevenB (thicketyrowfarm@aol.com), May 01, 2001.

Okay, I am clueless. What happened now? I just checked in and I am heading home to my second job now, please tell me what transpired. Via private email if that would be better. God bless!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), May 01, 2001.

Okay, I suppose since we do have two rules, that we should notify folks if they come by to look in the archives under forum for Mission...Rules. There. I'm a control freak, huh?

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), May 01, 2001.


Uh, No. Sorry Doreen. I was just thinkin' since you had such a difficult time getting the archives organized: if there was a sudden influx of posts now that the site was made 'public' on Cside, more categories might need to be posted quickly; temporarily increasing your work load. In no way at all was I trying to infer that you were a megalomaniac. I am truly sorry.

-- StevenB (thicketyrowfarm@aol.com), May 01, 2001.

The timing of this post is uncanny as I was going to post something along the line of "Was it REALLY us that were causing all the problems on CS forum?"I had logged on over there for the first time in weeks and saw nothing but homesteading stuff(YEAH!)None of the religion that got people hot and little if any politics.I see few old names that used to contribute solid information and one or two that I refer to as shit stirers.I was thinking that maybe folks over there had wised up a little but it seems from what you folks are saying that it is just the result of a hot delete key.Too bad.I got fed up with all the "new age BS" as well as the "liberal think" over there.The irony of it all is I consider myself to be so liberal that I sound conservative.(These lables are now meaningless anyway)I had jokingly called this the mean people forum because some of the early posters had been accused of being that on CS.The odd part of that is it was the peace and light types that were doing the name calling and personal attacks when they could not back up their position with facts or logic.It looks like these same folks now have the run of CS.I have to wonder now if the seeming harmony over on CS is because many of us left or because any debate is censored.

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), May 01, 2001.

Greg, just reading your post and it is a similar story to what has and is, happening at the art bell bbs. I used to believe bell was the guy who would help us all find the answers....and who really cared for his fans. Well, he is back after almost a year off, and I can't listen to him anymore. I still post on the message board because of the topics and the other members. We agree to disagree ! Anyway, the love & light new agey stuff is a serious "mind control" plan or something...they want to solve everything with love instead of acting out of love...I am not sure the problem you guys have. I really have not visited the countryside forum much at all. I love trying to become as much off the grid as possible.... It is very sad to see people become so divided lately. It is a daily occurence at the bell bbs-and I wish I could just go offline. Are we losing freedom of expression ?? I am leary every time I even mention the new world order phrase. I feel like I have been marked and tagged. I dunno. Sorry for venting. Thanks, Doreen for starting this forum. Nan.

-- Nan Bignall (jdnabgnl@midwest.net), May 01, 2001.

Okay, I went over and read the post regarding the new rules. I am happy that they are for the time being giving Hoot his sanction to continue his witnessing, but it begs the question...Can you respond with any comments on what Christ has done in your life? Or that you have thought about it and decided that you really don't want Christ in your life?(that pained me to type that) That would be argumentative, no? Eeegads. Forget it folks. If you won't lick the black boot of oppression, you will not be allowed to post anything other than exactly which brand of drywall screw you think is the best. If Ken disagrees with your choice, well...it might just all go away to the cyber junkyard to cover up the idea that there might have been something that wasn't exactly lock step thinking going on.

They are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Of which they definitely have two. They just want to show the one of unity and and singleness of thought. It does indeed come down to philosophy. I don't share their main philosophy any longer. So I won't give them any more of my energy. It's all about choices, and they have made it abundantly clear that free expression is not going to be allowed, so...I choose not to go there. I also choose not to buy things from China if I can POSSIBLY avoid it. The new agers are right about that one aspect, energy, mental, physical and spiritual, don't waste it.

Mary, I am sorry you experienced the censor's slice. What was it you posted that so agrieved them?

Steven, sorry, I meant that as a joke, and I took no offense to your comment! The archiving will go along just fine. There needs to be one topic at least to start an archive on the subject, so it is something that will have to be built up from time to time. No big deal since I finally understand what they were looking for!! Thanks for your concern on it!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), May 01, 2001.


I'm sorry. I thought that Nan and Chamoisee's posts on Phoenix had been included and then deleted on the Countryside thread. Obviously, I was confused, and wrong. I will tell you that it hurt to have to say so to Ken, as I still disagree so much with him (on so many things). Anyway, truth is I have spent most of my adult life trying to learn when to keep my mouth shut, and now with this new medium, I guess it's time I learn to stand back and keep my fingers quiet from time to time. Sorry I stirred the pot.

-- mary, texas (marylgarcia@aol.com), May 02, 2001.


Mary, it's okay by me ! Stirring the pot is also good. I think the message board, forum, medium is a whole NEW adventure; and sometimes ya gotta stick your neck out. Words via the 'puter can be misleading, but....I know I keep trying to convey my thoughts and concerns. We are all learning, and even though I still think the internet was a big brother plan to keep tabs on us.....how can they keep UP with us ?? Love, Nan.

-- Nan Bignall (jdnabgnl@midwest.net), May 02, 2001.

I canceled my subscription this morning, I had renewed for three years, last summer. I just can't support the editor.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), May 02, 2001.

Well, maybe if we all invite at least one other person over to this forum, we will all be able to find out which drywall screw is really best, and I know that Doreen won't delete any answers just because she thought a different one was better.

I really like the atmosphere of this forum much better. People are free to say what they like here without waiting to be pounced upon by someone for having a different idea. Doreen has done a really great job organizing this and taking her time to set up this forum. Doreen really doesn't have any more extra time than any one else does, but still she found the time to do this because it is important to her that people have a place to express themselves freely. I thank her for her contribution.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), May 02, 2001.


Green, very well said, Doreen has done a great job here. I've invited a few names I haven't seen here yet, hope they show up. I wonder how many of the "others" are lurking. God Bless

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), May 02, 2001.

I'll third the motion!!! Its not very many places I can be myself 100% without having to worry about being kicked out!!! I can also identify with being so liberal that it feels conservative - had to wonder that about myself a lot lately!

I have to say, as I did the last time, that I will continue on that board. The folks there (myself included) have been behaving like children, and as such, Dave and Ken are behaving like parents. I posted some really inflammatory stuff over there, and made no bones about what or who I am and what I believe. Not once was I censored OR censured. And, I've said a lot there 'in the heat of anger' which I probably shouldn't have, but had no trouble.

As I stated there... that surprised me. I was given the addy from someone who said that that forum was more 'pagan-friendly' and open than BHM, and have found that with a few notable exceptions, that is true. (Never once was censored there, either)I never knew there were so many thin-skinned homestead types! I also think that a lot of us over there tend to take things personally that were meant for other people. The guilt factor is alive and thriving!! I figure if I can dish it out, I'd better be able to take it right back in my face...

I've had it out with Ken in private over a myriad of things as well. We are still on speaking terms, though I don't find much to speak with him about, I have to admit, lol!!!

I love my time here, but I still love my time there and on other forums as well. Can't help it. Its more important to me to help folks out than it is to bother with a petty rule or two - and they have been warned that I won't stop opening my mouth (something I will NEVER learn to keep shut, I'm afraid) when things are false and/or unfair.

My first reaction was to cancel my subscription, however, I do still find things that I like and things that I need there. If SOME people over there weren't such snivelling spoiled little brats (again, myself included) there wouldn't be all the problems. There are people in this world that will never forgive some things I have said - in several forums. So what???? Should I care? Should I run away and hide? Should I stop talking to folks that either don't care, or agree with me just because of where they 'hang their hats'?? Sorry - too comfortable in my own skin.

Hoot should NEVER be censored - his posts are loving, informative and entertaining. He makes me laugh sometimes, but more important, he makes me think!! However, others should have the same treatment... Wonder if I could get Ray Buckland, Laurie Cabot or Janet Farrar to post over there just for laughs.....

So.... again.... and yet AGAIN.... I will keep going there.

I will keep telling them that censorship is wrong, and keep reminding them that the First Amendment is for everyone, not just a select few. I will continue to post inflammatory posts so long as there are those who need to read them (in my own, less than humble, opinion!). And, I will keep helping those that ask for it. I won't run away from their fight - I will stay and they will just either ask me to leave or deal with it.

We are being just as unfair here....I know that Mary and Rebekah and others voiced their opinions over there, too.... But are we out only for ourselves, or does doing a service for others only work if they agree with US????? Are people in need of information and advice less worthy of receiving it because they choose not to come to THIS forum? Maybe I just am masochistic enough that I enjoy being beat over the head till it bleeds.... Don't know.

Hoot did do a post over there that fits here... At the end of it, he admonished all of us to just get along... Something to the effect of there being way too much strife in life already without adding to it. He makes a lot of sense.

BTW - their little "rules" have already backfired - take a look at the last few posts...

-- Sue Diederich (willow666@rocketmail.com), May 02, 2001.


So this is where everybody that I have missed reading about and hearing from went too! So glad to have found you all again--from what I am reading here--sure feels better than the CS forum has been for awhile--looking forward to spending some time hanging out here!

-- Lynn Royal (homesteadmama@att.net), May 02, 2001.

Sue, maybe you are being masochistic:). If you want to continue, by all means you should, I just WILL NOT contribute to the forum because of the philosophy debate I mentioned earlier. Things change as is the nature of everything, one thing that has drastically changed is being able to voice an opinion of dissent without fear of censor. That kind of attitude is not going to further anyone's understanding of things that both divide and unite us. Discussion on differing viewpoints is the only way to grow in any direction. I agree with leading a more simple life, not being dependent upon the whims of the world economy or the mega corporations for my well being, but I will never agree with openly arrogant power trips.

The people "over there" who want info are certainly able to find A TON of info in the archives,on practical, political and religious topics, unless of course they decide to go through those and delete the "controversial" ones, which I think they might just do. Hope not.

The burning desire that I have is to do what I can to remain free and to help others achieve their goals in that quest along the way. Being censored, is a direct affront to those principles. If you can't tell someone the truth, you can't help them and are allowing a SERIOUS deception to continue. So how can you profit from partial info???

Again, it is choice. I choose not to give my time and energy to those people any longer because I DO believe we are already at war. It just hasn't crawled off the paper (or monitor) and broken out in real life yet. I want to be free, I want the TRUTH, whether I like it or not, and I won't settle for anything less.

They can do what they like at the Cside forum regarding rules. It is their perogative, but it has changed midstream and that change is very political in nature. What defines a person is for the most part shown in their religion and their politics. Censoring that, with the exception of Hoot, and I did notice a "out" on that in King Ken's statement, is kind of like saying to people that they flat out will not be allowed to express themselves regardless of the pertinence to the topic.

Countryside was a conversation place. A place where I enjoyed a lot of intellectual stimulus that I don't find at the feed store or gas station here in fabulous downtown Giddings. It is no longer that place, so I have decided it's best to move on. Let's all help each other and show respect for eachother's opinions EVEN when we strongly disagree. Just deal with facts, and opinions, and feelings as what they are. Three distinct things. Yes, they sometimes all roll into the same topic, but nonetheless, you can discern them. If we MUST argue, then do so intelligently.

So let's just build a volume of knowledge here, and if you choose to continue with the CS forum, fine, if not...fine. Thanks to all of you for coming here and for allowing your knowlege to be shared with others for FREE. God bless all of you!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), May 02, 2001.


Doreen, you said it really well. It has nothing to do with hatred or my being 'mean and intolerant'. What bothers me is how the overall atmosphere has changed. People no longer say what they really think or feel, and a lot of them aren't speaking up at all. And I really don't agree that it's gotten so much friendlier and nicer since Ken and Dave took it over. It was a thousand times nicer when Steve was in charge of it. So we disagreed sometimes, so what? Is life all about a total absensce of conflict and thought? (Why think if there's no conflict?) I enjoyed the discourse I had with others, even when we were in complete disagreement.

-- Rebekah (daniel@itss.net), May 03, 2001.

I woke up real early this morning and posted an "inflammatory" rebuke on the CS New Rules posting. I'm curious to see if it will remain there. Maybe we all need to not take this all so seriously? Good debate and arguement are fun and informative. Wierd how some people seem to think any of this really means anything anyway.

I'm going to take my own advice now and go out and play! John

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), May 03, 2001.


John, did you know you're inflamatory? Welcome to the world of the censored (or is that censured?) Maybe all of us on here should be censored, might be interesting.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), May 03, 2001.

Just thought some humor and truth should be shed on the masses over there. I really didn't think it was inflammatory, as it was not related to anyone person or group. Only the mindset of how important this all seems to be to some folks. I think Joel may have been right after all about the censorship issue. I do agree that it is their forum to do w/ as they please. Oh well. I'll see if my follow up post is deleted also.

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), May 03, 2001.

Sue, I agree with you about enjoying the interactions with people even when I don't agree with them. How many times have I posted a repsonse that I knew was likely to get my head bit off, and then checked back eagerly, several times a day, to see if anyone had taken the bait yet? (chuckle,chuckle). I didn't mind when they disagreed, it was neat to get another viewpoint and think about it form their side a little. Sometimes I found out I was wrong! And while I like this forum, I do miss the controversy and debate that used to go on over there. What I REALLY resent is when Ken disagrees with you, he either deletes the post or entire thread, or keeps responding against your point of view in such a way that nobody else is willing to stick their neck out and say what they really think. Unless, of course, they happen to agree with Ken. the forum there has experienced a very rapid downhill slide, and the odd thing is that they don't seem to be noticing. Or maybe they just don't care? Maybe the sole purpose of the forum now is to provide free material for the magazine articles and so they don't want any lively debates going on that really wouldn't work in the magazine.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), May 03, 2001.

John I broke down and HAD to look.Your post on the new rules was not very earth shattering compared to some of the crap that had been posted and STAYED POSTED.Ken seems to be getting off on the delete key.He is now editing as well as deleting at his whim.I'm glad I bailed out when I did.I much prefer the broken tractor type questions but I refuse to second guess each and every thing I write.CS WAS a good source of info.Sure some folks got cabin fever during the winter and tended to get off the subject of homesteading a bit but hey it was cheap entertainment.I never had anything deleted and I don't think I went out of my way to insult anyone but I sure did get nasty grams from the "good vibrations" crowd.Screw 'em.They don't like my opinion thats fine then don't ask for it.Me I'm done with CS forum and all the BS,censorship,and political correctness mumbo jumbo that goes with it.There is a small member base here but I think it will grow.It may never get as big as CS was because there is no companion mag to go with it.The last issue of CS that I was able to buy at the news stand was nothing to get excited about.After all the crap on their forum I sure as hell don't plan on subscribing now that they are sub only.I don't like the attitude of Dave Belanger.That forum is his sandbox even though it was built by the folks that post there.It also provided articles AT NO CHARGE for CS mag.One would think that they would have kept their hands off a good thing.I'm one person and perhaps I don't know much but in the aggregate of the number of folks that have bailed out they have lost a HUGE knowledge base.I'm not going to cast what few pearls I have before swine any longer.Now I'm going to go out and finish tuning my farmall H and getting the sickle bar ready to make hay with.(good advice about going outside to play John)

-- greg (gsmith@tricountyi.net), May 03, 2001.

Well, what can you say? For pete's sake....I enjoy seeing how the "other side" sees things and good healthy debate on topics is is a learning experience. O love having my mind changed on something. Or if I am ambivalent,which admittedly rarely happens, then seeing a bunch of different viewpoints helps me to determine where I stand. That is what discussion is supposed to be about, right?

I have too much to do to deal with all of this stupidity. Best of luck to all who choose to go back and post there. I think Rebekah is right about the free info to fill out their magazine, which is just fine, IF they would also post that in the instruction manual that is a semi contractual agreement. Whatever. I have to go design a broody coop.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), May 03, 2001.


How 'bout we start our own magazine? Well, it's a thought.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), May 04, 2001.

I've been thinking of it for a couple of years, Cindy, but don't think I can afford the startup. Maybe someone else can. Any takers?

-- Ava Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), May 04, 2001.

In regards to starting a magazine, has anyone considered the ossiblity of starting an e-Zine to build up the reader base, and then switching over to print. If there were enough followers, the start-up costs might not be as bad as expected. Note: I'm no publishing expert- just an optimist ; )

I would love to see a mag that had the info CS does, without the strife behind the scenes.

Just a thought..... I hope everyone is well and happy!

-- Kristin, in La. (positivekharma@aol.com), May 04, 2001.


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