Setting some ground rules for the forum .

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Well this should get everyone going .This forum is a gift to us from CS magazine .Therefore we can voice are options but the final call is there's .If anyone has something to post off topic please feel free to at my site .I will not edit or delete unless its gross .It does't matter wether I agree with it , it can stay .

This forum has been a great asset to me .I start her Nov.99 .Anyone who has been around for long enough knows me and what I am like .I have posted over 1200 times .I try to be fair and nice {most of the time}Alot of us who have been here from the beginning are having problem with some newer folks and there postings .Think of it as your brothers new wife comes to your house and starts picking on everyone .Would you like it ? No .For everyone to enjoy this forum and for it to be usefull I think we need to delf discpline ourselves.

Here's a thought .If we read a title and it doesn't interest us don't open it .If you do not belong to that religion or political group don't open it .If you go to a thread and something bothers you , take an hour before replying .Often things are said in hast .If you do not have something nice or constructive to say " do not say anything ".

This place has been a safe haven from everyday life and would like it to stay that way .We as homesteaders take enough crap from society why do we have to give it to each other .We are different from most and thats ok , lets treat others the way we want to be treated . Does this sound fair to everyone ? I would like to get to know all of you .We can help each other allot with just a little respect .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 08, 2001

Answers

Patty, you can post rules that discriminate against newer novice folks, on what people read or think, what they say or allow them to violate copy written material ON YOUR FORUM.

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), April 08, 2001.

I don't have a problem with newer folks , I have a problem with people like you .Once again your colors shine threw.Gosh I must be a bad person trying to get peace on this forum again , trying to get back when we all cared about each other .Posts about things like Renees and Sheepishes husbands surgery and all the concern ,or the out pooring of kindness to Cindy Cluck and her family with there horrible loss .I'm not looking for a pat on the back , but since I am so rotten I guess thats why I posted it for people to help .Lots of new people here are great ,Stacy comes to mind and I am sure I am leaving out many others and will probally add them soon .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 08, 2001.

Patty, you're trying your best to bring some constructive peace here but, there will always be people who find something to criticize. I read a lot of posts and threads that I don't agree with. Sometimes I post, sometimes I don't. I do try to be diplomatic and, for those who don't know me, it is VERY difficult. Many times, I would like to just ream someone a new you-know-what! I don't. I enjoy most of the forum and I've learned so much. Even if I never own chickens or goats,it doesn't mean I don't need to know about them. I never got beyond the first sentences of the political posts. My humble opinion was "yadda yadda yadda". Now everyone, let's agree to disagree!

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), April 08, 2001.

Lynn,

Patty was just making a SUGGESTION,geez.......

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), April 08, 2001.


Come on Lynn! Patty is NOT saying that new people are not welcomed or wanted she is simply stateing how things were and how they could be. Give it a rest. I my opion in the last few days or weeks you {Lynn} have yet to say anything positive or helpful you are the first to jump on the bashing band wagon take a break. We are all here to help each other and to support each other when needed,we often bounce ideas off each other and wait to hear the replies,sometimes they are in agreement other times not but they are given with the hope that they will be helpful.PLease think before you speak.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), April 08, 2001.


Can Lynn (or anyone for that matter) tell me how Patty's suggestions to keep threads going in a positive direction, and wait for an hour before flaming someone discriminate against anyone? They are suggestions only. And connon sense, IMHO. And certainly not mandatory, Contribute in a manner that is acceptable to Dave B. and those who help him to monitor the board.

Also: How did someone violate written copy wriiten material?

-- Rick K (rick_122@hotmail.com), April 08, 2001.


Rick, posting, via paste, from another printed publication is copyright infrindgement, (I think bad spelling is not though).

-- mitch hearn (moopups1@aol.com), April 08, 2001.

Since this board seems to have gotten away from homesteading completely, perhaps someone will start a board that is devoted to homesteading.

Maybe we could leave out the "my religion is better 'n yours", "your politics ain't correct", "it ain't right unless I agree", "birth control", "lack of birth control", "my rectal passage"; and "Larry Flints' lower half". So possibly when a forum starts that is devoted to homesteading, perhaps someone will let me know.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), April 08, 2001.


As one of the chief offenders in the "hot-head's" club, I would personally like to thank Patty for attempting to offer some peace. I hope to apply her suggestions to my way of relating to forum in the future. Thank you Patty.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 08, 2001.

you know ever time renee answers a post i like her better. Bob se.ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@hit.net), April 08, 2001.


Now then... I don't know whether I should even be posting this, but it looks from where I'm standing that some of you folks are getting scared about stuff that's happening, and folks that are scared sometimes get a mite panicky and say things they might regret afterwards (or if not regret, maybe just wished they'd kept quiet about).

Here am I, sitting all on my lonesome on the other side of a bloody great ocean, surrounded by dead sheep and cows waiting to be burned by a bunch of incompetent a$$holes who couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery, and the like-minded people I've come to know somewhat and respect a lot recently are all beating the virtual crap out of each other.

My philosophy here is if I don't like the subject or contents of a post, I just ignore it. Why create animosity just because you don't agree with something. And why get all hett up because a few posts are deleted? OK, it's annoying (especially if you've contributed to the thread, but surely that's the perogative of the top dog - It's not really a reason to bail out is it?

It would be such a shame if all this went to hell just because a few people get a bit hot under the collar and take umbridge at a percieved "loss of freedom". If you want to know what loss of freedom is like, come pay a visit over here, or visit Scotland. It took a bloody Australian (Braveheart)to show most Scotsmen just how much freedom they really lost. A few lost posts really ain't the end of the world. I know I can live with it from time to time because the good, the constructive and supportive stuff far outweighs any stuff that is deemed unsuitable and is deleted. Sorry to ramble on, but I see the potential for this forum disintegrating before my very eyes and I know it doesn't need to be like this. Humbly yours, Eric.

-- Eric J Methven (e_methven@btinternet.com), April 08, 2001.

You're right Eric, and the disintegration of the forum into nastiness is exactly what makes those of us who remember "the good old days" so unhappy. In no way did Patty suggest discrimination against anyone, new or otherwise. How do you read a request for a little restraint and consideration as such? Unless, of course, that's the only way you can communicate.

-- Peg in NW WI (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), April 08, 2001.

And once again I posted before clarifying- I did not mean you, Eric, by the "YOU". YOU (Eric) are always a gentleman and I for one appreciate that.

-- Peg in NW WI (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), April 08, 2001.

Well I'm glad to see familar names responding to this .I am also glad I did not jump out on a limb and you all {at least somewhat} agree with me .Another newer name who is great is Eric .Now heres a man with some common sense .Want to move to the states we could use more like you ?

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 08, 2001.

I agree with you, Patty. There's always going to be people who are unhappy with their lives, or are just plain grumpy and find fault with everything. Nothing that we do is going to change them so I just ignore them.

Stacy Rohan in Windsor, NY

-- Stacy Rohan (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 08, 2001.



I have been ignoring them , but that seems to fuel there nastyness .Then they think we agree .We have lost alot of good people on the forum and do not want to see it continue .To many people don't want to rock the boat and name names or say exactly what they think about some of this behavior.I'm tired of it and will be voicing it more often .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 08, 2001.

I know your intentions are good, Patty. Sadly, this is the THIRD time in less than a year that things have degenerated into a lot of nastiness and that some of us have called for kindness, a cooling off period, etc. It doesn't seem to take. I don't know what the answer is, but it's driven away a LOT of nice folks. Some of them have been attacked by email, some have been sent viruses, it goes on and on.

And it's not just the religious/political/opinion threads either. It seems to pop up in any and every kind of thread.

I don't know if this is at all helpful, but perhaps we could try imagining that we are not typing, but speaking. Would you REALLY (honestly, now) say those same words to a person's face?

I think this forum will continue. It's just a shame that so many nice people have been driven out.

-- Joy F (So.Central Wisconsin) (CatFlunky@excite.com), April 08, 2001.


I've been thinking about all this for for awhile before posting. On the one hand, I think back to what Joel Rosen said when he left the forum. At the time I felt that he was overreacting and wondered why. I really miss his presence on the forum, even if he was extreme. He added interest, controversy, and a lot of lively discussions. But Doreen was still here.. Neither are Annie Miller, Rachel, or Gerbil, all of whom had a lot of worthwhile stuff to offer. The thought of Cindy leaving is very painful to me. I guess it's inevitable that the forum will change, as everything with an element of life does,but in my heart I wonder whether the change is a positive one.

I've seen a lot of talk about restricting subject matter to homesteading only topics. I think that would be overlooking one of the main benefits of this forum that cannot be gotten elsewhere. As we found on some other threads, homesteaders tend to be introverted, shy, and even reclusive. Many of us live in secluded areas and don't get much social interaction. Speaking for myself,at least 75% of my social life is here on this forum. Most people just don't understand why I have goats living in my house, why we are concerned about our food supply, and what the big advantage of a homegrown vegetable is.

Countryside magazine explains why we do thse things and tells us how, and inspires us. The forum is a place where we can all get together and discuss things, sometimes related to homesteading and sometimes not. I don't care if others want to talk about politics or religion. If it doesn't interest me I don't look at it. I don't care for the profanity and R rated jokes and potty humor, but now that these things are labeled joke,R, I just avoid them. The extremely foulmouthed stuff by some juvenille delinquent ought to be removed(as it has been). The people who always have an acid, cutting remark to make ought to examine their motives and maybe go elsewhere. I don't consider myself a Christian, though I read and believe in the bible, I don't care for labels. But the Christian threads and references don't upset me. I don't see what the problem is with homesteaders sharing what's been on their minds. If Doreen and Cindy both leave, the forum will have lost something vital, something I'll really miss. If someone manages to run Vicki off, I'll probably say goodbye.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), April 08, 2001.


It would truly be a shame if it came to this. But this is what other forums do.

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-- Kathy (catfish@hotmail.com), April 08, 2001.


As one who used to post volumes (enough to make some of you wince, no doubt!) and who doesn't post as much now, I'm taking this opportunity to chime in.

I took about a month off from reading or posting to the Forum. (Okay, I did lurk a bit from time to time!) In the time away from here, I reflected on what brought me here in the first place; what seemed to evolve over say, the last year; and how I feel about things now.

The reason that I came here in the first place was really twofold: first, to find answers to those "technical questions," i.e.: my goat is off his feed and sniffling....what do I do since the vet's office is closed until morning, etc.; and second, to get some validation that even though hardly anyone I know in real life lives the way I do, that indeed there are other folks out there who have chosen to live this homesteading way.

I was very grateful for all the technical help. I still am!!! Sometimes, I was a bit sceptical about answers provided, but I was able to research from the answer posted as a point of departure and come to some meaningful conclusions. For the most part, though, the answers have been sound, thoughtful, considered, and offered in the sincere hope of helping me out with my homesteading (primarily livestock) questions.

The second part was wonderful for a while. I was so delighted to find others that were happy to give up the city/consumer/unaware lifestyle and live in the country. Do you guys remember that wonderful feeling? Just the awestruck feeling of finding real homesteading comrades in the cyber world!??? WOW. I can't tell you how wonderful that felt to me!

Somehow, the second part devolved for me, in terms of the goodness I felt from every post. It was almost like a refining process. At first I was glad that someone else lived like I did. Then it became a little more discriminating...for example...did that person responding to my post sound "more" like me, philosophically speaking, or "less?" If I was interested in peace, for example, why was I participating with someone who advocated anarchy or overthrowing the government? Or why was I participating with someone who seemed to me, anyway, closed- minded, or immature, or mean, or lacking some respect? I started having an attitude...

If we were all thrown together on some Survivor episode, hopefully we could pool our talents and come up with solutions to common problems. I think Y2k did some of that for us...brought us together as "strange bedfellows." Since that is far behind us, what if, anything, is holding us together? Homesteading? Or arguing? Or?

Perhaps we got a little crazy this winter, talking about our personal philosophies and who knows, the political situation last fall wasn't really a unifying force! So we blew off steam throughout our cabin fever delirium and inadvertantly created a tempest in our teapot.

I would ask you all to think about the future of this forum. I don't think we need to be spoiling our nest. I would simply ask you to remember how you felt when you first arrived here. Can you find that place again? Can you swallow your tongue without the need to be "right" or to point out that someone else is "wrong?" If so, we can get this back to the fine place it was. Well, actually not the same, but close.

I have found it immensely refreshing to take time off from here and come back. I suggest it for any of you who are disillusioned and/or burnt out.

I have always said that we have more in common than "in different" and I stilll believe that. Respect others as you would have them respect you.

I haven't followed any of the current controversies, so I am not singling out anyone or group for my observations.

Just my $.02

-- sheepish (the_original_sheepiish@hotmail.com), April 08, 2001.


As usual Rebekah your post is right on target.I must say,that as a Christian,I was surprised to read that you aren't.Your posts have always given me the impression that you were a very knowledgeable Christian.More so than many of the Benny Hinn,Oral Roberts clones that often post here. I for one would like to see less of the political and religious post here.Some regulation along those lines would be welcomed by many of us. This is a homesteading forum.There is a Christian homesteading forum for us Christians.We can use both.As for postings of political stuff,if you aren't a conservative Republican you have no right to an opinion anyway :>)

-- JT (gone2seed@hotmail.com), April 08, 2001.

Patty, I understand what your trying to say and appreciate the thought and sentiment behind it. One would think people would know how to behave better. The rapid and brainless response supplied by Lynn exemplified your point beautifully.

I first found this place about a week before Y2K. I don't think I posted till about March or April. I just enjoyed the place. Yes it's changed a lot. Not all for the worst, but the general decline of good behaviour is getting old. Heated discussion and exchange is good. Thoughtless flaming, or worse, deliberate meaness is inexcusable. This seems to mirror our society tho, so I don't see any bright spots on the horizon in that regard.

As for me, I'm glad the weather is warming up. I have a new place here I need to turn into a HOME. I've been coming here less and less and expect that to be the trend for me. I've got a million projects going on I'd like to share w/ you all. I haven't because of the meanies and the thought police who can't just let folks say what they want (no matter how stupid) w/o swearing (in multiple languages) and cursing them for their lack of an "open mind".

Still, a lot to recomend here. Any time I needed an answer I got one. The knowlege base here is staggering. Keep the faith and remember that line about "argue w/ a fool and he does the same"

-- John in S. IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), April 08, 2001.


I don't think I would have gotten through my first kidding if it wasn't for this forum. I learned so much by reading every post that said "goat" so that I knew what to do when I had my problems. (and there were a few) And what I couldn't remember, someone was there to answer me as soon as I asked. It was great.

I love to give my suggestions and help whenever I can contribute something that I know, kind of as a way of giving back. I avoid many posts that don't interest me. I don't make any comments that I think will cause problems (except for once and I got a private e-mail for that one) I recognize and appreciate alot of people on this forum. And even made one great friendship that is going steady.

Great advice from everyone. I hope this forum will survive....

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), April 08, 2001.


To Those of you who emailed me privately ,my darn outbox is not working and I will get back to you as soon as I can.~Patty

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 08, 2001.

Thank you Patty, for stating what should be obvious to all of us, but some seem to have forgotten. I usually just bite my tongue and pass on the opportunity to blast someone or argue with someone's opinion on the forum-_LIFE IS JUST TOO SHORT. For those who have given me honest, helpful answers to questions I have posted, thanks! Just hope everyone will be decent to each other, and Eric, your post was right on! Everyone go outside now, and play nice! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), April 08, 2001.

LOL, you made a very funny comment. There has ALWAYS been strife and arguements the last year I've been reading. I didn't post for the first three months I read the forum. There has always been bickering, and name calling...this isn't new!!! If you don't like religion... don't read it. If you don't like discussing politics...DON'T READ IT. Hey folks this is common sense, I don't go into bars because I don't like to talk to drunks...common sense. Sometimes I wish they would just put the name besides the posting...then I would save myself even more time.

-- Judy (inhishand65@yahoo.com), April 09, 2001.

Okay heres my $.02 worth. I've been lurking behind the scenes for a while and have added my input on a few occasions. Why is it that if you see something you don't agree with/ like you can't just skip it by scrolling by? I've seen many hateful thing on this forum, but I just let it go and move on, you can't have an argument if it's only one sided. Let these people who CAN'T seem to just scroll by fight that one sided fight, it won't take long and they'll get a clue. Please lets bring back those "good old days" that I missed out on and instead not having anything.

Blessings, Kelle

-- Kelle in MT. (kvent1729@aol.com), April 09, 2001.


We are a family here. Families have discussions, disagreements and yes even fights! That doesn't mean they don't still have a high regard for one another. Personally the fighting on this forum doesn't bother me one iota because we are just being a normal family.

-- debra in ks (solid-dkn@msn.com), April 09, 2001.

You can please all of the people some of the time and you can please some of the people all of the time,but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

you all take care Tom

-- Tom (tjk@cac.net), April 10, 2001.


In the earlier days of this forum, there were considerably fewer of us posting than there are now. It was at times like a family, but sometimes more like group therapy! At least we all felt some kinship. While there was conflict, we were careful to present our dissension with a measure of respect. In the past few months, I think (I could be wrong; often have been!) that there have been more posts flung out to this forum with less concern about the effect it might have, and more concern about just getting something off one's chest.

So yeah, I definitely get the part about not reading posts (b/c I don't read a lot of them now either) but in the "olden days" (cough, cough!) we really wanted to be "involved" with the folks who were posting then. It was a sense of fellowship. Now it's tons of folks expressing their opinions. Not passing judgment, just observing. Whatever works. Life moves on, whether we want it to or not!

-- sheepish (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), April 10, 2001.


I took a break from the forum and posted on a rare occassion. I still am lurking and only post when something compells me to speak my mind. I am in argeement with many of you. This forum has been going through many changes and not all of them are good. I have been here a short time compared to many of you, but in that time i have seen many people leave completely or go into lurk mode. It is a shame! I am in agreement with Renee. Lynn you have a nasty comment or a rude remark to make on every issue and topic. I don't have the answer, but i wish we could turn this forum back around.

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), April 12, 2001.

Well I'm glad to read things have calmed down a little bit .I hope it stays that way.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), April 12, 2001.

I am not sure if anyone posted this yet or not, but referring to a post about Braveheart, Mel Gibson was born in the USA, not Australia.

-- Glenn (gj_usa1@yahoo.com), April 15, 2001.

Mel Gibson: Occupation: Actor, Director, Producer Date of Birth: January 3, 1956 Place of Birth: Peekskill, N.Y., USA Sign: Sun in Capricorn, Moon in Virgo Relations: Wife: Robyn Moore; kids: Hannah, Edward, Christian, William, Louis, Milo, Thomas Education: National Institute of Dramatic Arts, Sydney, Australia

-- Glenn (gj_usa1@yahoo.com), April 15, 2001.

This is Sonda in Ks. & you haven't seen me post for a long, long, long time-----I'm one who felt like one of the Family a long time ago- ----then I protested about the dirty jokes that I didn't appreciate them nor did I feel like they had anything to do with homesteading!!! Nor did I feel they had any place on a family forum!!!! Then I started getting terrible things e-mailed to me & viruses & porn & awful things!!!!!

Hey life is way too short to have to put up with that!!!!!! So I left & didn't even lurk and had no withdrawls & found I sure didn't miss the fights or the things that had nothing/ as I felt to do with homesteading!!!!

Then I started getting people e-mailing me/ asking me homesteading questions & then I started getting e-mail replys to questions I had asked on Countryside over a year ago----so I came back to see what was going on---- & I see it must be the same old thing!!!

I miss the old family who answered homesteading questions & I felt like I was part of their family----but we can't go back----but I don't mind telling you I miss what we had once!!!!!!!

I'll lurk for awhile/ I see a lot of the "old regulars", are also gone/ I don't know the answer ---but I do know life is way tooooooooooo short to put up with the abuse/ I underwent when I said, I didn't feel dirty jokes had anything to do with homesteading!!!

And I still don't think they do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sonda in Ks.

-- Sonda in Ks. (sgbruce@birch.net), April 15, 2001.


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