The operative word is "overall." Some things, such as state sovereignty vs. the Federal Government, were badly compromised as a result of the Civil War, but there are reasons why it's a good thing, overall, that the South lost.

One reason can be seen by simply reading Harry Turtledove's great alternative history in which the Confederacy won. He thinks it would have meant a German victory in WWI, among other things. I highly recommend his "Great War" series.

The next, of course, is that it was time for slavery to end and the South had dragged its heels long enough. They had seen the handwriting on the wall for at least two decades and chose to circle the wagons rather than face the inevitable. The South needed to leave the 15th century and the war forced it to do so.

But the biggest reason, to me, is that, had the nation split after that war, the United States would today be a mere shadow of itself instead of the most powerful nation on Earth. There would be no strong USA to have countered the Soviet Union, Sadaam Hussein and on down to the dozens of petty despots and dictators who have plagued 20th-century history.

Lincoln had remarkable foresight; he saw this and I must give him credit for that. His goal was to preserve the Union for the future; having achieved that, I believe he really meant the "malice toward none, charity toward all;" that he wanted to re-unite the country as quickly as possible and get it headed toward the future.

I may be a Rebel (and not a racist!), but I'm also a realist who can read history. I think this world would have turned out much differently -- and NOT as a better place -- had my Confederates won.

I may get a lump in my throat when I visit Antietam, but the same lump comes in my throat when I see the Lincoln Memorial in Washington.

And I think that about sums up my feelings on this one.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 24, 2001

Answers

The idea of alternate history is both fascinating and frustrating. IMO, it is an ongoing demonstration of chaos theory. If at any time, one little thing had happened differently, the new "initial condition" could move history in a very different direction. (I'm not a believer in predestination, sorry Mr. Calvin)---if the South had won the Civil War, if Hitler had been runover by a Munich beer truck in 1922, etc, etc, etc.

There was a woman poster on the old forum who authors mystery books that are sometimes based on alternative history (G. Miki Hayden, Pacific Empire). She posted here under another name.

A theory of mine is that the South's second most important determinant was the invention of A/C.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

You're not a rebel, poole. You're the worst kind of hypocrite, for KNOWING that the IRS violates our constitution when it intimidates the public into flling a bogus "income" tax, and then STEERING the public to a site that tries to portray the lie as if it is legitimate, while actually admittting that you know it is a violation, and that you are okay with

You're a fucking lackey, and a sellout, poole. Do shut the fuck up.

-- KoFE (your@town.USSA), March 25, 2001.

KoFE

Maybe there are those of us who are willing to PAY for a government that protects our freedom and appreciate the privilege of living in a country that has compassion for others and are willing to give our portion to the upkeep of the infrastructure and many of the other positive things that taxes go for. That does not mean we blindly accept everything our taxes are spent on, but no one agrees to everything.

The alternative to having no income tax would be unbearable.

-- American (Ilive@the.USof.A), March 25, 2001.

Stephen, Lars - There's a couple Usenet newsgroups I occasionally read that might interest you...

alt.history.what-if

soc.history.what-if

(Stephen- "alt.history.what-if" currently has a thread which touches on states rights as effected by the civil war.)

The vast majority of contributors to those newsgroups offer informed, thought provoking and intelligent conversation. There are however, the occasional "Kofes" who will pop up and babble their nonsense but, being the veteran forumites that you are, I'm sure you'll have no problem stepping around their vomit.

-- CD (costavike@hotmail.com), March 25, 2001.

KoFE,

Grab a warm fuzzy: I will actually respond to you once more, though it's probably a waste of time.

for KNOWING that the IRS violates our constitution when it intimidates the public into flling a bogus "income" tax

I never said that. In fact, I said the opposite: that the requirement to file, the IRS's right to enforce that provision, etc., etc., WERE perfectly Constitutional. This has been settled in court ad infinitum.

Maybe you didn't bother to read what I DID say. Or, perhaps you have simply decided to lie to score cheap points. Or, maybe you're just a moron who is incapable of simple reading comprehension.

At the very least, you are incapable of grasping subtle distinctions, which is why I rarely bother to respond to you. You aren't worth the time.

Now: be a good boy and go away.

For those with functioning brains, here's a link to that site that KoFE hates so much. Enjoy it. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 25, 2001.

American,

Don't waste your time. You can be as conservative as a John Bircher and it will do you no good with KoFE unless you agree with him about the IRS.

I call it the "black hole" effect; these people invent a completely spurious and variant doctrine of reality, then try desperately to get any Conservative to fall into that hole with them.

If you say something like, "the government is trying to take away our 2nd Amendment rights" or "I think the IRS needs to be reined in" or "I am trouble by some Supreme Court decisions on search and siezure" or anything else in that line, Tax Protestors screech, "yes! yes! Now take the final step and join us!"

The black hole effect. Having imploded themselves, they seek to pull all other conservatives into the hole with them. But these are anomalous black holes; while they will obey the Hawking Theorem and radiate garbage in all directions, they actually repel any form of illumination that might show them how flawed their logic is.

Hence, they have no choice but to resort to name-calling when they're shown to be illogical dunces, and to take respite in pouting, "WE are the TRUE Americans and YOU'RE not!"

Sad, really.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 25, 2001.

CD, thanks for the links

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 25, 2001.

We can read and you can't, you dumb ass. The constitution wasn't designed for you to become a revenue producing drone; you are just too afraid to assert yourself, which is fine, no one should hold that against you, but you ought to be man enough to admit it.

Instead, you try and act the authority, and then, when pressed, you finally admit that you've known it all along.

And I could give two shits if you ignore my post; they're not for the purpose of debate, asshole; they're just to call you an asshole, and to state the reason why.

American: try reading the constitution before you try to lecture anyone on their civic duty. If you have intellectual honesty; which the lackey poole certainly doesn't, you may change your tune.

-- KoFE (Your@town.USSA), March 25, 2001.

You missed the boat KoFE….It left Miami two hours ago in a southerly direction.

-- So (cr@t.es), March 25, 2001.

Yawn.

-- KoFE (your@town.USSA), March 25, 2001.

KoFE -- you lovable old tax nut you! Usually you don't get quite this virulent outside the boundaries of your own personal hallucination. Why the sudden facination with antebellum history?

-- E.H.Porter (just.wondering@about.it), March 26, 2001.

KoFe

Serious question - If we all decide to stop paying taxes, how do you propose we pay for everything the taxes cover now?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love the extra $25,000 in my pocket every year. But someone/something has to pay for the infrastructure we use everyday of our lives.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), March 27, 2001.

I'm glad the CSA lost too. That's why I think confederate flags are OK to fly at battlefields, cemeteries, and your own back yard, but not on the state flag (whatever state), not on a license plate, and not over the state capitol or any other govt. building.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), March 28, 2001.