You know me. I am the poster who talks about heritage and pride concerning the confederate flag. But really, I hate niggers. I am the guy who talks about the ill effects of affirmative action, and how some poor white guy might have been passed over for a promotion-but really-I hate niggers. I am also the guy who talks about the failure of social programs to help african americans, using a token black to underline questionable statistics-but in reality-I just hate niggers. I am also the guy who cuts and pastes articles about blacks beating up whites, claiming this is rascism, too-but, if the truth be told, I just hate niggers.

I am the guy who wants you to think I am anti-pc-that I somehow stand for principles that this country was founded on, and will defend them to the end. But really, if you ask me privately, I just hate niggers.

But I cannot really tell you how much I hate niggers because you might not think I am such a swell guy anymore. I cannot tell you I hate niggers because, in some cases, I cannot even admit it to myself. I have wrapped some kind of protective cocoon around myself concerning failed social agendas, a cocoon of how improved the lot of the black man really is, how discrimination no longer exists. I sometimes do not even know I harbor this kind of hatred. But again, when I am all alone in the dark, and no one is looking, I do say to myself-"I hate niggers".

So, though I doubt anyone will answer the call(Except Manny of course), I ask all of you to whom it applies to at least admit the truth. Come out of the closet and just say it. I HATE NIGGERS.

I know you will feel better if you do. I have never seen such a collection of closet rascists in all my life. People pretending to be something else, when they are just bigots. Sometimes I wonder if I should spend time around such idiocy-and then I answer my own question by saying-post about it-call a "spade a spade". Will you answer the call?

-- CannotTell (protecting@myhidefrom.lynching), March 19, 2001

Answers

Now hold the phone there nameless one (or is that coward??).

I spoke of pride and heritage in the Confederate Flag (hey, what can I say being born and raised in The South and all), but have never said what you said.

This ranks you right up there with the Kowards of the KKK.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), March 19, 2001.

Deano,

Ditto for me. I'm proud to be a Southerner. I'm a Rebel ... NOT a racist. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 19, 2001.

Stephen

"I'm a Rebel ... NOT a racist."

That's poetry man......very well put!!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), March 19, 2001.

So, though I doubt anyone will answer the call(Except Manny of course), I ask all of you to whom it applies to at least admit the truth. Come out of the closet and just say it.

OK, I will come out of the closet and admit that I would love to have nasty dirty sweaty sex with Vanessa Williams, and lots of it.

How's that for shocking?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

It goes without saying, nevertheless, that we Southerners bear the responsibility for the way the Stars and Bars have been dragged through the mud. We should never have let the KKK spit on it, we should never have let South Carolina and Georgia use it to slap black schoolchildren in the face. If people think anyone who has reverence for the Confederacy is a racist, it is we who have not shown them any different.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 19, 2001.

Hey Tarzan...you find that proof you were called out on in that other thread yet?

ROFL!

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), March 19, 2001.

Wow, you've finally lost it. COOL!

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 19, 2001.

CannotTell,

It really doesn't help anyone to announce your hatred and bigotry, probably only makes matters worse. It is obvious to any intelligent and sensitive human being that Conservative types, including many on this forum, have all kinds of mental problems. You should ask yourselves why it is that you hate "niggers". If you are honest with yourselves, you will discover that the reasons have more to do with your own problems than anyone else's. This is a personal problem that you should resolve by yourselves, or with the assistance of a therapist, but announcing it in public only reveals your own stupidity. Get back in your cave.

-- the world already knows (conservatives @ are. bigots), March 19, 2001.

Wow, you've finally lost it. COOL!

No Ape boy...it is you who has lost it. You have lost credibility because of your latest LIE!

P-R-O-O-F man! Believe me...your latest NO PROOF 'open mouth insert foot' attack will be given fair use mileage for some time 'genius'.

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here Not@ever.com), March 19, 2001.

Ain't, will you knock it off in this thread already? Shit, you'd think you would have developed some manners by now.

CannotTell, I'm sure you have had an extraordinarily rough time for a white man so you blame blacks for your problems. It's nice to ssee you 'fess up to your predjudice though because that is the first step to healing. I do have a couple of questions for you though.....

Are you socially isolated?

Have you ever personally known an educated black person?

Are you Boswell down on the farm?

-- (Questions@for.you), March 19, 2001.

Yes, yes, Ain't. There's no proof. Let's forget all about the nasty IRS. Who cares what they say, right? Just because they say an organization is not a charity doesn't mean that organization isn't a charity if you really, really believe hard enough. Come on, say it with me...

There's no status like 501c3! There's no status like 501c3! There's no status like 501c3!

You know what, Ain't? I don't think we're in Colorado anymore!

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 19, 2001.

I don't hate anyone.

However, I truly dislike rap music. Does that make me a racist?

Also, Uncle Deedah's post reminded me of something else; I don't find most (insert current politically correct descriptive word or phrase here) women physically attractive. Lisa Bonet being a noted exception. Does that make me a racist?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), March 19, 2001.

Good one, CannotTell, I think you hit the nail on the head.

A few of these proud Southerners didn't even realize you were making a point.

BTW, Mr. Poole (and others), when you say you are "rebels", what are you rebelling against, and how come I've never heard black people say that they're "Southern rebels"? When you celebrate the confederacy, what precisely are you celebrating?

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), March 19, 2001.

Bemused-

You need to know something about us Southerners. We're suckers for a lost cause, always root for the underdog, and are fundamentally incapable of letting the past die.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 19, 2001.

Cannot tell--

Thank you for your mildly entertaining troll-post. Thing is, bad satire is worse than no satire. If you are too heavy-handed, it doesn't fly. But keep trying, you show a measure of promise.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Thank you CannotTell. A classic job of illustrating the very worst element of liberalism. I call it flag wrapping not just because it fits but also because most libs I know just can't stand flags. It's what takes the place of discussion, reason and just plain trying. A lot gets said about the mirror image people we call racists but little about exposing your ilk.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), March 19, 2001.

Looks like "Ra" a.k.a. "Barry", "I h@ve.farted", and "xians@suck.bigtime" found a new handle. Now he is "CannotTell".

-- (Ra.is.such@wussy.wimp), March 19, 2001.

I think it's sad that unk's only response was about hosing a black woman.

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 19, 2001.

We should never have let the KKK spit on it, we should never have let South Carolina and Georgia use it to slap black schoolchildren in the face. If people think anyone who has reverence for the Confederacy is a racist, it is we who have not shown them any different.

Thank you for saying that. I'd thought several times about entering that thread regarding the flag, but I clicked on my back-button every time. Folks who have lived in the North all their life have ONLY seen that last cross picture Buddy posted associated with the KKK.

I've discussed this whole Southern Heritage thing and it's association with the flag with folks [starting on Poole's forum and moving on to other fora]. If I were to encapsulate my findings, I'd tell you that there was nothing inherently good about the old South. Just about everybody was poor. The whole thing had to do more with foolish pride than anything else. Of course those are my opinions from an outsider looking in. The families in the South MUST have engrained another attitude in their offspring that allows them to concentrate on a war that preceded WW II, Korea, and Vietnam, as though folks in the North never lost great great grand-fathers in the war of the Confederacy. Y'all can cling to the thought of heritage in the flag, but my feelings are right up there with those of Rich. If I see it, I ASSUME it indicates racism. If it flies in a state, I don't visit that state.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 19, 2001.

Oh don't get me wrong, Anita. We're big on foolish pride here, too. And it's not just the white folks. A couple of weeks ago, one of my fiance's aunts was waxing poetic about their great-great uncle's shack. She said, "They were dirt poor but they had family, they knew who they were and they were happy," My fiancee just rolled her eyes.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 19, 2001.

I think it's sad that unk's only response was about hosing a black woman.

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 19, 2001.

I forgot to add Mariah Carey, Holly Robinson, and Tony Braxton. Hows that for sad?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Hows that for sad?

Pretty sad. Let me help you out here...

Blacks are good for many things other than sex. A Black person developed the method for refining blood products. If you need an operation tomorrow and need blood, you can thank a Black person!

Your turn.

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 19, 2001.

You're a lackey poole, not a rebel.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), March 19, 2001.

[shrug] Near as I can tell, the original poster, Cannot Tell, was just a garden variety troll with nothing intelligent to say, but a very provocative way of saying something stupid.

It is possible to be a closet racist, but none of the supposedly 'telltale signs' Cannot Tell mentioned seems to have anything to do with who is or is not a racist.

BTW, if this nation really wanted to commit to a program that would do blacks the most good, we would spend billions of dollars building brand new, small-sized local schools in every poor neighborhood (including rural), drop their student-teacher ratio to about 10:1, create incentives to attract the very best teachers away from the suburbs along with incentives to make teaching as attractive as law or medicine so as to draw on the same pool of talent, and generally make sure that no poor child (of any color) failed to succeed in school no matter what obstacles stood in their way.

One generation later, I predict we'd see fantastic results: an African-American population with a large and prosperous middle class. It would be expensive, but it could be done.

-- Little Nipper (canis@minor.net), March 19, 2001.

LN--

You may be right but why not do this in one city and find out. That way, if you are wrong it will save the taxpayer a few billion and save you some face.

Actually, I think KC, MO did do something like this in the 90s and I don't think it accomplished much.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Your turn.

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 19, 2001.

Lauren Green from Fox News, what a babe!

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

LN--

Here is a link that reviews the results in Kansas City.

Of course you might consider The Cato Institute to be a biased source. If you have a better link, please share.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Already Done Happened = CannotTell?

-- ??????????Question Mark???????????? (?????????????@question.mark??????????????), March 19, 2001.

Unk,

You are such a slut! How's the weather down there deep in the heart of Dixie?

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), March 19, 2001.

Will you answer the call?

I'll answer the call CT. Whether you are a troll or not I cannot tell, but regardless, your views deserve merit. When someone pulls out in front of you and he is black, what runs into many peoples minds? When the slugs of the South are CONTINUALLY on talk shows whining about who dun them wrong? California blondes? NY Jews? Idaho skinheads? Washington Politicians?! Lawyers? Mechanics? Streetwalkers? Yuppies?

Although I don't hate blacks, I hate a nigga with an attitude. Though I don't hate all deep southerners, I despise an ignorant cracker.

So yes, I am a bigot. There are degrees of bigotry, but I would not believe ANYONE that said they do not have racist thoughts. I have utmost respect for someone who will stand up for what they believe, whether acceptable or not.

-- callme (moremainstream@thanyouthink.com), March 19, 2001.

I don't think I hate anyone...but I do know I dislike some niggers of all colors and ethnic backgrounds...

-- just my thought (for wh@t.its worth), March 19, 2001.

Generally i have found that I hate assholes, regardless of race, creed or color.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), March 19, 2001.

This has played out true to form. Some actually thought my original post was about my rascist feelings. Some thought it just troll bait. And exactly the people I was talking about were the ones who claimed not to be a bigot.

Lars, you saw the satire, and although you did not find it effective, you were the closest to the mark at what my objective was. This board has a good many folks who really believe they are not bigots, but what they post, and to what they draw our attention, speak louder than any defense they can muster.

We have tread this water before. You cannot convince a bigot that oppression of the african american and other minorities is still rampant. Say that, and you are branded an obsequious liberal. Say that racial profiling is real, say that innocent black men are being held in prison and inocent black men are executed in much higher proportion to other races, and you are called a Clinton lover.

You see, the true bigot cannot stand that he is a bigot, so he tries to trot out stories about reverse discrimination, or stories about the failure of affirmative action, or trots out stories about how there are niggers in every race. But behind it all, he is still a bigot.

And I did not think any of the bigots here would jump out and proclaim for all to see that they truly do see the bigot in themself. Instead, we see what we see, a bunch of folks claiming "troll" or "ineffective rant" or whatever. Fine. As long as there are folks to fight the bigots, the fight may one day be won. Until then we can continue to believe that our buddies here on this board are just fine men. And we will continue to hear from the bigots that anyone callous enough to tell the world that rascism and sexism is still rampant is that most wretched of creatures-A Liberal.

Hey-If that is what you want to think, fine. But I would not be caught dead being a "compassionate conservative". Huh!

-- CannotTell (protecting@myhidefrom.lynching), March 19, 2001.

'CannotTell', did you also start the thread Hateful, White, Christian "men"?

-- (Stop@the.hate), March 19, 2001.

Is CannotTell actually FutureShock?

Seems like a plausible fit to me.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), March 19, 2001.

Cannot tell--

I have done the same thing from a different angle of attack and with equivelent results. Actually I thought your satire was fine; it's just that I thought I knew what you were up to.

You are right, I "cannot tell" but if I had to guess I would say FS.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Y2J, I didn't see your post when I made my FS guess.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

My guess would be that 'CannotTell' is Y2K Pro.

-- (Stop@the.hate), March 19, 2001.

My guess is that y2kpro is actually Dianne Squire "International Woman of mysery".

-- who is diane (only@she.knows), March 19, 2001.

Lars,

Great minds think alike, no? : )

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), March 19, 2001.

Y2J, think he will tell us? It's not fair to admit you've done a troll and then not disclose your "real" ID.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

I think Y2J is Dennis Olsen. Hi Denny!

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), March 19, 2001.

Nope. Did not start any other thread today.

There are some very sick individuals on this board. I did not choose the e-mail address for this thread because I thought it sounded good.

-- CannotTell (protecting@myhidefrom.lynching), March 19, 2001.

JBT,

It's wet down here tonite, but we need the rain badly so no complaints. How was your trip?

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Well some think I'm a racist bigot. Never thought about it much except the honest aspect of it, which always makes others uncomfortable. Hell why lie about it? Like I posted a month ago some where. I feel unconfortable around blacks. Probably cause I ain't been around them much. Been around whites all my life. Kind of like when you put a Black Angus bull in with Hereford heifers. If they never seen one before it scares the shit out of em!

Been around Indians since my growin up days. Fun group to party with but when they get drunk they bunch up and want to fight every white guy that's by himself. Other than that they're a fine group.

Damn Chinese are the hardest workin and best at rithmetic of any branch of humanity. Shows ya where a little extra hard work can get ya.

Mexicans up here try to sell ya a car without an engine but you got to hand it to them. Who else would work their fingers to the bone in veggy and fruit fields and orchards for low pay and still smile at ya at the end of the day?

And I think I trust white people the least of all. Bunch of lyin thievin lizzards, and if they can't screw ya on a Friday they start all over on Monday. Those are my honest opinions!

-- Boswell (cjseed@webtv.net), March 19, 2001.

Lars,

I think that he will come clean. Remember SydBarret?



Jack Booted Thug,

I wish that I had a dollar for every time that one of you Amazing Kreskin types so confidently (and yet so incorrectly) claimed that I was Dennis Olson.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), March 19, 2001.

Uh, Boswell?

Don't look now, but the PC police are going to be here any minute.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), March 19, 2001.

Nite John-Boy, nite FS. Glad you're still around.

-- Lars (larsguy@yahoo.com), March 19, 2001.

Unk,

Haven't been yet. We leave Saturday for sand, sun and fun.

I remember "never get on I-4 during rush hour. Repeat never get on I- 4 during rush hour."

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), March 19, 2001.

"Ditto for me. I'm proud to be a Southerner. I'm a Rebel ... NOT a racist. :)"

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 19, 2001.

I wonder how many people say this, but when their son or daughter marries outside of their race, it's a totally different story. My roots are as Southern as you can get. My parents told me to never bring home anyone a shade darker than me. Just recently I began tracing my ancesteral roots and, if my parents were still alive, they would be having a sh*t fit!

-- shades of color (shadesofcolor@shadess.blu), March 19, 2001.

CannotTell,

It really doesn't help anyone to announce your hatred and bigotry, probably only makes matters worse. It is obvious to any intelligent and sensitive human being that Conservative types, including many on this forum, have all kinds of mental problems. You should ask yourselves why it is that you hate "niggers". If you are honest with yourselves, you will discover that the reasons have more to do with your own problems than anyone else's. This is a personal problem that you should resolve by yourselves, or with the assistance of a therapist, but announcing it in public only reveals your own stupidity. Get back in your cave.

-- the world already knows (conservatives @ are. bigots), March 19, 2001.

---------------------------

CannotTell has the right and freedom to speak his/her opinion. Whether you agree with it or not is your opinion, and you said what you had to say. "Cannot" said what many people feel deep down, but they would not admit to it publicly. Everyone has an issue with something, what more can anyone say? No one here should pretend that they aren't prejudice against something or someone.

-- don't fake it (don'tfakeit@don'tfakeittt.lml), March 19, 2001.

CannotTell you are a simple shit. Second guessing racism builds dams not bridges most often unfairly and always by the same people. But, it's a handy sword to draw and your gibbering type have little else. Racism exists. Period. Happy? Probably not as you'd need to turn the rock of every soul and then not understand what you'd found. Just about done with you cept for this: You are the heart and soul of failure when it comes to this the most important AMERICAN issue.

Question CT. Where would the democratic party get a majority if it wern't for the issue of racism? Clearly the're aren't enough thespians.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), March 20, 2001.

Couldn't have said it better, Carlos.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), March 20, 2001.

Tarzan,

I agree absolutely. We SHOULD have objected when the Klan and white "identity" groups co-opted the battle flag. It's too late now, and I personally believe that, since the flag is offensive to so many, it should be retired. That's a shame, but like you said, it's our own durn fault.

Anita,

I'd thought several times about entering that thread regarding the flag, but I clicked on my back-button every time. Folks who have lived in the North all their life have ONLY seen that last cross picture Buddy posted associated with the KKK.

I hadn't seen that thread, but had I responded in it, I would have said essentially the same thing I just said to Tarzan. It's time to let the battle flag die. It's offensive to many Southerners.

You speak about our inability to "let the war go." I've tried to think of an analogy to help you understand; the closest I can get is to point to your membership in the SDS way back when.

Suppose I were to condemn you out of hand, ad hominem and a priori, just for having been a member. Suppose I called you a terrorist, a "bomber" or a closet Communist who wanted to overthrow the United States government and "hand it" to the "Commies" in Moscow.

That would be unfair, wouldn't it? Think about how you would feel in that case. I would be painting you and all of your old friends with a broad and inaccurate brush, solely because a few (VERY few) of the SDS's more enthusiastic members and "fellow travelers" decided to press matters with explosives instead of protests.

To complete the analogy, suppose the history of the SDS had been written and sealed in stone by J. Edgar Hoover. Whenever you tried to argue what the SDS was REALLY trying to do, someone quotes Hoover (who, in turn, quotes one of the more radical members of the SDS) to "prove" that ALL of you were pond scum and Benedict Arnolds.

Think about that and you'll begin to get an idea about how someone like *ME* feels when the entire Civil War is dismissed with, "the South was just a bunch of racists fighting to preserve slavery." Maybe you'll get an idea of why old-South southerners like me fret about it.

I will also point out, though, that we were perfectly content to leave this to idle chat amongst friends until our history began to be REWRITTEN for political purposes to PORTRAY the entire South as racist, bigoted, backwards and ignorant.

In that thread that you referred to at the original Roost, I carefully pointed out that the MAIN reason for Southern secession was Lincoln's tarriff on trade, which would have devestated the Southern economy.

Sure, there were some noisy voices who said that Lincoln was gonna "take away our slaves" (especially in SC[g]) and it is these who get all the attention nowdays. The victor gets to write the history books, after all, and these idiots make great quotes.

(Again: think, "Hoover, taking selected quotes from radicals to 'prove' that all SDS members were baby-killers and 'commies.'")

The fact is, the average Southerner despised the large plantation owners as much as any Northerner. They were considered the foppish children of privilege, sitting around sippin' their mint juleps with slave children waving fans at their sweating faces while most Southerners scratched out a living on the land which HADN'T been snapped up by the huge, rich owners.

And when the war came, these fat pimpernels didn't fight. The farmers, bakers, blacksmiths and shoemakers did the bulk of the fighting (and dying). If you think that the average Southerner fought to protect these fat, pompous idiots, you're crazy.

Further, North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia only seceded when an invasion by the North became obvious and imminent. They WANTED to remain in the Union, but couldn't countenance the idea of letting their sister states become the victims of Northern subjegation.

(I also pointed out in that thread that the Cherokee nation seceded and fought along with the South, though they were no great friends of Southerners, because of concerns over things like Lincoln's unconstitutional suspension of Habeas Corpus. NO ONE mentions that today. It doesn't even appear in most history books used in our schools.)

In that thread, I also pointed out the *FACT* that the original text of the 13th Amendment, as offered by Abe Lincoln as an enticement to get the South to return to the fold, would have *protected* slavery in any slave state. Lincoln simply wanted to preserve the Union. He ONLY made slavery the issue when France and Britain came *this*close* to recognizing the Confederacy, which would have ended the whole argument.

I also pointed out that AT ANY TIME prior to, say, 1863 (and possibly into 1864), the South could have preserved slavery by simply laying down its arms and returning to the "fold" of the Union. Secret meetings between Lincoln and Confederate leaders occurred several times during that war, and in each, Lincoln offered all sorts of concessions to preserve the Union (including, as usual, guarantees that slavery would be left untouched).

Lincoln himself personally hated slavery, but his overriding goal was to preserve the Union. Likewise, many of the officers who fought for the South hated slavery, but came South and fought for the principle of State's Rights vs. Federalism.

The real problem, and the frustration for people like me, is that we can patiently explain this until we're blue in the face, and people who have decided, a priori, that the South was simply fighting to "preserve slavery" allow it to flow into one ear and right out the other.

And I'll finish with this fact: the root of most of the modern-day predjudice here in the South is RECONSTRUCTION and the astonishingly draconian regime maintained here by the North after the war.

But that's a whole 'nuther subject, and it would probably be as fruitless for me to delve into that as the former one.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 20, 2001.

Shades of Color,

Two points.

1. Neither I, nor most of the people whom I would associate with, would care very much if one of our friends or siblings established a loving relationship with someone of a different race.

2. But even if you're right (and you're not), if you think this is exclusively Southern, you're a moron. Something that never gets mentioned in debates like this is that WE (meaning Southerners) never had riots over school busing ...

(I believe those occurred in places like Liberated, Liberal and Enlightened BOSTON, did they not?[g])

Anita,

I left something out. (And it was already too long, sorry.) When I said that most of us were contented to leave the Civil War to idle chat and armchair quarterbacking, I meant to include this fact: most Southerners are proud to be Americans. I know that I am.

And all in all, I'm glad the Union was preserved. I'm just very sorry about the way in which that preservation was achieved.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 20, 2001.

And to anyone who gives a flip:

I caught the dark humor and the implication behind the original post, which is why I responded. The idea, of course, is that I am secretly a "racist" because I might defend the Confederacy, which is silly.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 20, 2001.

Stephen,

I hate to say it, but you have posted some pretty simplistic misinformation on the Civil War and the South's "cause". But I refuse to address it on this ridiculous thread.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), March 20, 2001.

CannotTell, (and anyone else) would you care to comment on unks attitude that blacks are only sexual objects to him? Am I the only one to recognize this?

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 20, 2001.

I am not a bigot. I hate all you motherfuckers equally. If UNK wants to get a little dark poon more power to him. Whitney Houston always looked good to me. I wonder if she hits the high notes during orgasm?

-- Manny (No@dip.com), March 20, 2001.

Stephen-

You left out a lot of stuff in your missive to Anita, like the problem of slave states vs. free and the controversy the Missouri compromise caused. But as Buddy said, this is a pretty ridiculous thread. Care to start another?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 20, 2001.

CannotTell, (and anyone else) would you care to comment on unks attitude that blacks are only sexual objects to him? Am I the only one to recognize this?

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 20, 2001.

No, you are the only one stupid as a rock dumb enough to believe that.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 20, 2001.

I'm not convinced I'm interested in pursuing this myself, but, I'd like to clarify a few things to Stephen.

Whatever the reason for the Confederate War, folks in the North don't concentrate on it like some folks in the South. You may feel that there are misconceptions afloat about the reasons for the war. I may feel that there are misconceptions afloat about the SDS. There are misconceptions afloat on just about EVERYTHING.

It's my understanding that a lot of Union soldiers died in the war, yet I've not heard anyone in the North say, "My great great granddaddy died in that war." I DID hear Orin Hatch say that in a T.V. interview. Folks are more likely to discuss the brother killed in Vietnam, or the Uncle killed in Korea. AFAIK, WW II, Korea, and Vietnam didn't just draft folks from the North. Did Orin lose NO family in any of these wars? Is the Confederate War the only war for which there are misconceptions afloat? I think not on both counts.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 20, 2001.

Why are you resorting to calling me names?

It is my belief that you hold a few prejudices. Aren't I allowed my opinion without you calling me stupid and dumb as a rock?

In this thread you have spoken of nothing except hammering black women. You had the opportunity to say something helpful, but instead you chose to name more black women you would like to fuck.

In another thread, you said that you thought women voting would eventually destroy America.

Combining these posts, I conclude that you indeed do hold some opinions that posters need to he aware of. I am merely calling attention to what I believe.

For those of you who would like to discuss this but are afraid of unk finding out who you are, you can use either of these.

surfola

seigesoft

I expected this from Manny, but it really bothers me to hear it coming from you.

-- (Too bad@too.sad), March 20, 2001.

Tarzan,

Of COURSE I oversimplified it. Of COURSE I left a lot of stuff out. To cover the root causes behind the Civil War in any detail would take volumes, which is one reason why sound bytes such as, "the South fought to preserve slavery and Lincoln fought for emancipation" are so effective.

Nor do I mean to imply for a moment that there were not people in the South who considered slavery the key issue. Of COURSE there were.

I just dislike the oversimplification, errors and lies that led to that sound byte in the first place.

Anita,

You apparently have this image that all Southerners sit around obsessing about the Civil War. That's silly. I don't obsess over it; I don't sit and think for hours about how "unfair" it was. It's over. We lost. Seeing what results in the long run, I'm even GLAD that the Union was preserved.

(I DO maintain that if both sides had contained a few less hot-headed people, we might could've worked something out that was a whole lot better, but that's a different issue.)

I generally only respond when I see something that's inaccurate about the Confederacy or (in this case) when someone (like Tarzan here) says something that I strongly agree with.

And just for record, if you go into discussion groups where the Civil War is regularly discussed, you WILL find plenty of Northerners who talk about the war just as much as we do. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 20, 2001.

I don't think we obsess about the Civil War, but it's fair to say we think about it a lot more than folks in other regions. Hell, history happened at our doorstep. How many of us dug up minie balls during our childhood? How many of us read books like the Red Badge of Courage and imagined how those places, so close to where we lived, must have looked then? How many of us remember older relatives marking Confederate Memorial Day in April and Memorial Day in May? How many of us grew up almost within sight of at least one historical marker related to that war? How could the Civil War not mark us?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), March 20, 2001.

too bad,

First of all I do not give a flying shit who you are, and I have not gone into the admin page to try and find out who you are by tracking your IP number. I do not care who you are, you are an anonymous gnat on my ass. If you care to use a real handle, as I do even when making the most outrageous of claims, I may change my mind. Until then you are just another anon coward who hides behind a fake name.

It is my belief that you hold a few prejudices. Aren't I allowed my opinion without you calling me stupid and dumb as a rock?

And it is my belief that since you have taken my answers on this thread to heart you are, indeed, as dumb as a rock. That is of course, just my opinion. In my opinion you are as dumb as a rock if you take these answer seriously. So there.

In this thread you have spoken of nothing except hammering black women. You had the opportunity to say something helpful, but instead you chose to name more black women you would like to fuck.

And the idiot who started this thread spoke only about how he really hates......ack, I will change his word to "blacks". But yet you do not seem to have any problem with his retarded rant against blacks, you only have a problem with my purposely retarded answers to his rant. Which makes me think that you are not very quick on the uptake. in other words, rather dull.

In another thread, you said that you thought women voting would eventually destroy America.

Combining these posts, I conclude that you indeed do hold some opinions that posters need to he aware of. I am merely calling attention to what I believe.

And I am only calling attention to the fact that since you have taken my outrageous responses to this troll seriously you are dumb. That is what I believe, and I am merely calling attention to it.

I expected this from Manny, but it really bothers me to hear it coming from you.

Well, I think you will survive it. Take a chill pill and move on.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 20, 2001.

Oh, BTW, too bad,

If I have upset you with my words you are in good company. I think that I have pissed off just about every single poster to this board at one time or another, but at least I have the balls to do it under my own name.

Have a nice day.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 20, 2001.

Mr. Deedah fine sir, I have yet to be selected for your ‘pissed off’ group so would you be so kind as to throw a barb or two my way? Keep in mind that I have been around for some time now and have acquired a rather thick skin. Would it help if I were to describe the terrible things that Rick Fox would do to you if he caught your lilly white ass in the company of Vanessa Williams? I shudder at the image.

-- So (cr@t.es), March 20, 2001.

Hey, Socrates! Pull my finger!

-- Uncle Deedah, Jr. (Unkeyedup@yahoo.com), March 20, 2001.

Unk, youse da man.

-- (who c@re.s), March 20, 2001.

Hey, Unk, you've never pissed me off, either.

I'm hurt.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 20, 2001.

Well Stephen, I guess that you will have to settle for mere hurtitude until I say something that will better offend you, you silly cracker!

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 20, 2001.

Unk,

The first time I posted to the original TB2000 you insulted me, but I was not offended. Try to offend me.

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), March 20, 2001.

Ya know, sometimes trolls start the best threads. Lots has been said here that probably wouldn't have been if not for the kickstart.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), March 20, 2001.

Hey Unk. Don't let the stupid motherfucker get to ya. It probably aint getting any from any race.

-- Manny (No@dip.com), March 21, 2001.

Hey black folks,I suggest you check out a true southerner rebel that loves the flag and the heritage,he's intelligent,witty and tells it like it is!His name is J.J.Johnson @ sierra times.com, also read "I dont want to be black anymore" his honesty blows me away...J.J.Johnson for PRES!!!!

-- Tommy Heart (progun@nra.com), March 21, 2001.

Well, now that we're done with the nigras let's move on to Spics.

For instance, You let Manny in and there goes the whole neighborhood.

-- Spics Suck (nohablaesp@nol.com), March 21, 2001.

It was interesting to read "I am also the guy who cuts and pastes articles about blacks beating up whites, claiming this is rascism, too-but, if the truth be told, I just hate niggers. ', as I had posted about black racism. Showing where bigorty could be assumed without knowledge to the contrary was a good trick of the origionater of this post, it caused that political correctness to rear it's head again.

Stephen, I got my beliefs of southern bigotry from living in Texas and Florida, not just from history. It is too bad that the paragraph on the civil war in history books blames the entire thing on slavery.

Unk.. Have you insulted me or pissed me off? I can never remember who said what most of the time, I just keep on truckin.....

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), March 21, 2001.

Hmmmm....it seems that I somehow have missed a few people...

*note to self- try harder to be open and honest, you are not offending enough people*

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), March 21, 2001.

Stephen, I got my beliefs of southern bigotry from living in Texas and Florida, not just from history. It is too bad that the paragraph on the civil war in history books blames the entire thing on slavery.

Slavery ultimately was the cause and I'm not sure it could have been prevented in any event. At the time the war began, there were 9 million people in the South; 4 million of those were slaves.

Now: launch a disastrous war that had only a marginal chance of succeeding; the war itself wrecks the Southern economy. Then, free all of these poor slaves virtually overnight, with no jobs, nowhere to live in many cases, and nowhere to go (an oft-forgotten chapter of history is that the North made it PAINFULLY clear that THEY didn't want them, either).

Take Lincoln out of the picture (thanks to JW Booth) and it really gets bad. Most Southerners, while depressed about losing, had at least SOME hope when Lincoln said "malice toward none, charity toward all." When he died and the Republicans in Congress instituted a draconian "Reconstruction" program on a people who were already struggling in every sense of the word, it created unbelievable tensions and hard feelings that lasted for over a century. These Republicans were basically looking for ways to loot and pillage a conquered people.

(Whence the infamous "carpetbaggers" how so endeared themselves to ALL Southerners, black and white alike.)

That's another (partial) to answer to Anita's question about why so many Southerners remember that war to this day. Great grandaddy told grandaddy, grandaddy told daddy and daddy told me; that sort of thing.

And yes, there is racism in the South. But Cherri, it exists up North, too; because there are fewer blacks, it's not as bad or as apparent, but it's there. Racism is always worse in rural areas, too. The place to live in Alabama would be the large cities, for example; I guess I'd give the nod to Huntsville -- it seems about the most "liberal" (in the classic sense[g]). Or, maybe Montgomery.

Sure, it's worse down here because there are more blacks and they're competing for position in the local economy -- which again, remember, only rebuilt itself after about 100 years of terrible struggle after that disastrous war.

I'm not apologizing for it, I'm just stating facts about why it's so.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 21, 2001.

Clarification: "apologizing" in that last sentence is in the theological sense -- ie, explaining and defending. I don't defend bigotry by any means; I'm merely trying to help explain it.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 21, 2001.

So I guess if I'm not too crazy about reparations, that just means I hate 'xxxxxxx'? Wow, I guess that just about screws the whole 1st Amendment does it not???

-- just another bigot (moreinterpretation@ugly.com), March 21, 2001.

So I guess if I'm not too crazy about reparations, that just means I hate 'xxxxxxx'? Wow, I guess that just about screws the whole 1st Amendment does it not???

The whole point of the original post was meant to be was to point out that having certain views does not necessarily mean the viewer is bigoted.

Stephen, I never realised there were more blacks in the south. I agree there is prejudice everywhere, it is just that bigotry is more blatent and accepted in the south. At least from my experience.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), March 21, 2001.

Cherri:

There aren't more blacks in the South. There are simply [in SOME southern states] more blacks as a percentage of the overall population than some Northern states. New York has more blacks than Mississippi has people.

You can see the distribution of black folks by state and white folks by state and calculate the percentages of the population of just these two groups. Of course this doesn't give you ANY idea of the breakdown by state of Orientals, Hispanics, etc.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 21, 2001.

Anita,

Right. I stand corrected. I WAS referring to "percentage of population" and not raw numbers.

The question for the future, though, is what's going to happen with the huge influx of hispanics in the past 10-20 years. Right now, unemployment is low, but if whites ever start perceiving that hispanics are "taking their jobs," that could get ugly in a hurry.

There are no good answers to some questions.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 21, 2001.

Stephen:

I think we need definitions of Southern states to continue on in this discussion. I did some research today before my server went down for a long time, but, according to MY map, Maryland is above what some might claim to be the Mason-Dixon line, and they don't jump around at the thought of 29% of the population being black, while Alabama does with a percentage of 26%. I'll be glad to start a new thread on this, but I have another goal on the "slippery slope" logic at this time.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 21, 2001.

'Nita,

You should update your lingo & use 'Asians' instead of 'Orientals'. The only folks who still use the term 'Orientals' out here are our left coast 'crackers'.

Stephen,

You don't even need to think of influx, just contemplate comparative birthrates.

-- flora (***@__._), March 21, 2001.

Anita,

The Mason-Dixon Line is the border between Pennsylvania and Maryland (and Delaware). Some may claim otherwise, but the fact cannot be changed.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), March 21, 2001.

I'm looking at an Atlas of the U.S., Buddy, but I defer to your knowledge on the subject. I visited several sites earlier today that identified the states of the Confederacy, but I don't remember Maryland being among them. Of course I'm still straining to see the damn atlas. My kid needed money to pay her phone bill and I gave away the money for my new glasses.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 21, 2001.

Thanks, Flora. I REALLY need to get out more.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 21, 2001.

Buddy and Stephen:

I think I did a search on "Mason-Dixon line definition" and came upon this Freeper thread. I check these folks out on occasion, but I've never seen them discuss something so rationally. I don't know whether any of the stuff is true, but it SURE provided an interesting read [until my eyes gave out and I had to give it up.] It's a VERY long thread that goes into blacks and Indians in the Confederate War. Freeper Thread on Confederate War

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 21, 2001.

Anita,

Maryland was basically sympathetic to the South and probably would have joined the Confederacy if Lincoln hadn't immediately placed it under de facto martial law to prevent that.

(In fact, the actions taken in Maryland were another reason why the Cherokees decided to secede. They were terrified at the suspension of Constitutional rights.)

Did you read all the posts at that link you provided? That boy's post caused quite a stir. :)

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. No, there weren't entire black regiments serving in the Confederate army, as there were in the North. But blacks DID serve alongside Confederate soldiers. Plus, that boy makes several errors of fact: for example, he says that "only whites" were captured by Northern forces. This is flatly incorrect and anyone who's ever looked at the Official Records from that war knows this.

This boy also makes a lot of suppositions: WHY would blacks do this? WHY would this or that be so? My answer is, "I don't know and don't care; go ask 'em. But it DID happen."

For example, he (correctly) notes that it was ILLEGAL for blacks to serve in Confederate forces. But the Rebs weren't that well organized; the bulk of their forces were volunteer militia under elected officers. There was a LOT of winking and ignoring-of-regulations going on for the duration of the war. The expediency was to "get the job done."

During the war, in fact, two things puzzled the North greatly: (1), there *WERE* blacks in the line with fighting units (again, the OFFICIAL RECORDS of the war indicate this!) and (2), the blacks back home, whose masters had gone off to fight in Virginia and out west, didn't rise in rebellion (in spite of no small encouragement from the North to do just that, mind you). A small percentage took flight to freedom during the war, sure, and there were small rebellions here and there, but there was no general uprising.

In fact, it disappointed and puzzled Lincoln greatly.

The best link on the Civil War is http://www.civilwarhome.com. There are copies of official records, essays, John Gordon's history of the war, etc., etc. I realize you don't have time (or probably even the interest[g]) to go through all of that, but I do wish that everyone who has misconceptions about the war, why it happened, why Confederates fought, etc., etc. WOULD bother to do so.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 21, 2001.

Stephen,

Wasn't the idea of inciting a slave revolt a key part of John brown's plan to raid the Harper's Ferry arsenal. I remember that from somewhere and he was surprised and disappointed when the slaves in the area weren't flocking to join him and throw off the chains of oppression.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), March 22, 2001.

All you liberals check out a proud southener,who loves the confederate flag...oh yea he's Black...J.J.Johnson @ sierra times.com.,.read "I dont want to be black anymore" by J.J. also why do you racist blacks must use racism as an excuse for everything wrong in your life?...I wish us White/Males had something to blame our shortcoming's on!!!

-- Frank P. (progun@nra.com), March 22, 2001.

"I wish us White/Males had something to blame our shortcoming's on!!!"

In your case Frank P., you do have something...

God dun gived you shit fer brains!!

-- (heee haaaw! @ fuckin. redneck), March 22, 2001.

Thank you, Frank, for telling how clearly you hate niggers.

-- CannotTell (protecting@myhidefrom.lynching), March 22, 2001.

The best link on the Civil War is http://www.civilwarhome.com. There are copies of official records, essays, John Gordon's history of the war, etc., etc. I realize you don't have time (or probably even the interest[g]) to go through all of that, but I do wish that everyone who has misconceptions about the war, why it happened, why Confederates fought, etc., etc. WOULD bother to do so.

That is indeed a decent site. However, keep in mind that the author is slanted toward the Confederate point of view.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), March 22, 2001.

Did you read all the posts at that link you provided? That boy's post caused quite a stir. :)

I think I made it 3/4 of the way through before my eyes started to burn. I pretty much ignored the one-liner posts, but there were many long articles presented that were fascinating. I particularly enjoyed the one about the Indians and their reasons for fighting either with the North or South.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), March 22, 2001.

the author is slanted toward the Confederate point of view.

Of course.

That's why it's the best. :)

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), March 22, 2001.

I DO hate niggers,but also have some black friends who also hate "niggers" but they wont say it.

-- Frank P. (progun@nra.com), March 24, 2001.