Hi,,am looking for any JW's to chat with, make new friends. Of course I enjoy chatting with anyone who is a countrysider,,:-)**But I have embraced the JW faith,,would like to meet more JW's from all over the US. One question that many wonder about is>>>> Just what is the Kingdom that Jesus told us to pray for in the Lords Prayer, according to the Bible. Matthew 6:9,10,,Looking forward to hearing from you....:-)

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001

Answers

Response to Any JW Countrysiders out there, chat and questions

hello Patsy.....Luke 17:21 says the Kingdom of God is within you.Thats where my work is,and my prayers are directed to.I am not jw,and haven't been on for a while,kids are sick witha nasty flu just thought I would throw my 2 cents in the pot....teri

-- teri (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), March 09, 2001.

Response to Any JW Countrysiders out there, chat and questions

Hi Teri,,so nice to hear from you, I see you are up late also..,sorry your kids are sick,,old flu? Hope they get to feeling better real soon.***What translation of the Bible do you use? I noticed that many translations say put this scripture differently. Such as, in various Bibles, it is stated "..the Kingdom of God is among you", also, "in your midst". Notice that in verse 20 that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees, whom he denounced as 'hypocrites' so he could not have meant that the Kingdom was in their hearts..The latter translations make sense when we read other scriptures speaking of the Kingdom,,such as Daniel 7: 13,14,,Daniel 2: 44,,,Matthew 24:14, modern translations in our language. In view of these scriptures and many more, The Kingdom is a government ruled by God,,,interesting...good food for thought and conversation.. Do you have some more scriptures about the Kingdom that you would like to share? Catch you later and hope you get enough rest and the kids get better soon,,Take care

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001.

Response to Any JW (Jahova Witnesses) Countrysiders out there, chat and questions

Patsy:

I suspect a lot of people have a misconception of the Jehovah's Witnesses faith. When I was a kid they were known as the "Holy Rollers" for their enthusiastic services. A couple of years ago I attended a JW service as a guest and thought it was extremely sedate. Tell us more about the basic tenets of this faith. How does it differ from other basically fundamental religions?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), March 09, 2001.

In his model prayer, Jesus's words "Let your kingdom come" is refering to Christ's second coming. Jesus Christ is King, the annointed will rule with Him as Kings and Priests for 1000 yrs. Once Satan is defeated, Jesus will hand over all things to His father, Jehovah. After the 1000 years and a final test from Satan, the surviving 'other sheep' and ressurected will spend an eternity on a paradise earth with no sickness or death. Until then, that Kingdom is further expressed by the remnant of the 144,000 anointed who remain on the earth, making up the Governing Body who are directed by Jesus Christ, to the elders appointed by the Governing Body, to the men who are heads of their household, on to the children who are subject to their parents. Therefore the Kingdom of God involves all true worshippers of Jehovah. The sign of Christ's second coming is to be noticed only by those looking for it and his presence is invisible as he is reported to be coming as he ascended: view obstructed by the clouds. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society first reported His second coming to be 1798 (HOTW 1147), since then they have changed that date several times until they settled upon 1914. Armaggedon would come by the time the generation who saw the second coming died off, the last sure date which the Watchtower reported as a deadline for Armaggedon was the year 2000, which has come and gone, so they changed the definition of "generation" from a chronological one to "a prevailing attitude". Worshipers are now instructed to wait upon Jehovah. Such changes in doctrine are refered to as "New Light" as the scriptures say that the light will be getting brighter and brighter as the end draws near, however judging from the accuracy of Watchtower prophesies, the light has gotten dimmer and dimmer until it plum went out. If you would like to know the exact Watchtower pulications and their dates from which this information was taken go to http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/List7_1.html If you want to read the literature yourself, you'll have to find an old JW who is not up to the society's latest directives to obtain actual copies of the original literature because the organization has ordered all old literature returned. Also, the bound volumes are not reliable because they have been altered from the originally published magazines.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

Hello Patsy,

I was raised in the Truth though I was never babtized.My mom is a Witness and I still go to the hall with her when I visit home.If you are interested in corresponding with JW's,I can ask my mom's friends if they are interested.I correspond with them quite a bit via email (mom doesn't have a computer).Oh, and by the way they're located in Wilmington,N.C.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 09, 2001.

Ken,

Just wanted to add that I think it's funny JW's being described as "Holy Rollers".I've been going to the Hall on and off for 35 yrs. and have yet to witness an "enthusiatic service".The most witnesses do is sing.Down here in the south ,we always have called certain Babtists "holy rollers" or any sect that shouted,spoke in tongue,etc.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 09, 2001.

Ken, it's Pentacostals that are the "Holyrollers" and yeah, I guess I am one.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi Epona,,I respect your views as mentioned although some of what you said is not true,,and I didn't post my question to get into hot and heavy disputes. If you have grievences, I do understand,,and I would discuss one point with you at a time. But to throw everything into a conversation at once is just not feasible. I do hope that anyone reading your response is not prejudiced against me or JWs or most of all, Jehovah God. May that never happen.,,,email me anytime,,,unless you are of the ESC. ,,,,

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi Ken,,,Yes, you are right a lot of people do have misconceptions about Jw faith, and that is mainly because they haven't personally looked into the truth about our faith. Any dedicated, JW will be glad to set down with the Bible and share our beliefs as outlined in the Bible,,any translation. I say that because many think we have a special Bible just for JWs. Not so.***Gosh, I don't know where or why that rumor of us being Holy Rollers got started. Our meetings are held in a formal, orderly fashion, with volunteered participation. As you mentioned you thought themeeting was sedate. I think that is true about a lot of our visitors. I can only guess it is because they are strangers there, don't know many folks, and what is going on with others. There is a lot of laughter, and conversation before and after meetings while everyone visits. You will find the people there are very friendly and open,,nothing secretive about our meetings. (Another misconception by some) We sing, and have Bible discussions,,we have a weekly Ministry school where each student signed up for it gives a small presentation on various subjects that are scheduled. We also have a Bible based talk each Sunday given by a well qualified speaker. We study our main Bible aid publication, the Watchtower also on Sunday. Our main textbook is the Bible. Ken I will go into your next question separately...another answer for the question on,,Basic tenets of our faith... :-)

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi norabbit,,so nice to know you go to the Kingdom Hall and that your mom is a Witness,,I would love to hear from her or any of her friends,,,thank you and please convey my greetings from Montana to your mom. Please email me anytime,,,I have enjoyed your answers and comments on the Forum and look forward to many more,Catch you later,,,

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi nobrabbit,,sorry I mispelled your name in previous answer,,oops! :)

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi again Ken, I appreciate your questions and interest in learning something more of the JW faith. Accurate knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs can dispell many misconceptions.***You had ask about the tenets of our faith.***I have studied the Bible as one of JWs for many years and am up on the current information. First of all,,Jehovah's Witnesses are a worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding Jehovah God and his purposes and how they affect all manking. Our beliefs are based solely on the Bible.***I have put a scripture with each doctrine,,but of course there are many more addressing the subject. Also use various Bible translations BIBLE: We believe that the 'entire' Bible is the inspired Word of God. JWs hold to the Bible as the 'standard' for all their beliefs. 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 GOD: We worship Jehovah as the only true God and freely speak to others about him and his loving purposes toward mankind. We do this publicly and in the homes of interested persons. Therefore, the name, Jehovah's Witnesses. PSALMS 83:18 JESUS CHRIST: We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, as the Bible states, the first of God's creations; not part of a Trinity who are deemed as equal in power, etc. The Bible states in many quotations from Jesus...he not being equal to God, calls Jehovah his Father..."the Father is greater than I". Also, he is our ransom and way to gaining everlasting life as provided by God. JOHN 14:28, MATTHEW 3:17 GOD'S KINGDOM: JWs believe that God's Kingdom (the one prayed for in the Lords Prayer)is the only hope for mankind, that it is a real government, that it will destroy the present wicked system of things, everything involved in this wicked system; according to God's time table. Afterwards,it will produce a new system in which righteousness is to dwell,,, right here on earth. Also, that knowledge of this Kingdom is to be preached everywhere for all to learn about if interested..Matthew 6:9,10,Daniel 2:44, Matthew 24:14...2 PETER 3:13 HEAVEN: the heavenly reward is offered to limited number as outlined in Revelation 7:4--14;1,3 EARTH: We believe that God's original purpose for the earth will be fulfilled; that the earth will be completely populated by righteous persons who worship Jehovah, the true God and that these will be able to enjoy eternal life in human perfection; that even the dead will be raised to share in these blessings. PSALMS 37:10,11,29--REVELATION 21:4,5--JOHN 5;28,29-THUS,a heavenly and earthly reward.. Ken, this is only the bare basics and , I will be glad to address more..and any more thoughts or questions,,,from anyone on what has been mentioned,or more specific questions. I will be glad to chat about it...please feel free to email me..supper is calling me,,,dusk is falling upon the day...wonderful time of day..The pines have put on their "Sentry look" , tall and majestic,,catch you later,,have a great evening...

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 09, 2001.

Thank you Patsy for acknowledging my reply. You say I mentioned things that were not true: I searched high and low for proof of what I printed and as mentioned in my response, I can offer that proof, what is not true specifically? And please prove it. Do you personally have a copy of literature from the 1700's? My family does, I can prove it. Again: you say something is false yet you do not specify which part is false, nor do you offer proof. You call me a liar and I hold you responsible for such slander. What is ESC? I've never heard of such a thing.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), March 09, 2001.

Hi Patsy,

I will certainly get in touch with my mom and friends and let you know about corresponding.Just one remark on your statement to Ken "First of all,,Jehovah's Witnesses are a worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding ", uh, JW's do not consider themselves Christian. They regard Christianity as a false belief. Regards, nobrabbit.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 09, 2001.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are a dangerous, extremist, unbiblical and unchristian cult, responsible for the unnecessary deaths of thousands through their unscriptural ban on blood transfusions.. before that it was transplants, before that it was vaccinations, and before that it was a virulent 30-year "God-ordained" campaign against Satan and his aluminum cooking utensils (against all medical advice that these were harmless)! One can hardly believe the kookery these nutters have published. Modern-day JWs are kept ignorant about these things and are prohibited from reading material critical of their cult - for pretty obvious reasons. :)

It is usually a waste of time arguing with JWs. They are thoroughly brainwashed, have long since lost all desire to think critically ("independent thinking is from Satan" is a key doctrinal phrase) and just regurgitate their weasel-worded, disgusting pap: they have been trained to be most deceitful in debate, just like their presumptuous ORGANIZATION. Better to just spread the news about their disgusting cult, to ensure that their already miserable conversion rates (in the US & Europe, it takes the average JW about 50 years of door-to-door drudgery to make a single convert, if you exclude own-family child- indoctrination conversions) become even more miserable.

They are just duped slaves for the world's largest paper-based publishing company, which - of course - never publishes any financial statements... THEY ARE TO BE PITIED AND AVOIDED. Most have little or no proper education - and it shows.

Below you can find material - quotes from their own literature (LOL!) -which they are too scared to read (ROTFL!!):

-- Focus ("The Anointed Remnant" are FRAUDULENT and SUCK Class)

TO KNOW ALL THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, VISIT :- http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/the_list.html http://www.3dom.freeserve.co.uk/main.htm

-- Person who knows all about the JWs (rewot@hctaw.org), March 09, 2001.

Patsy---some friendly advice and for future reference--- parenthetically identify the nature of your post as (religous) since some of us didn't/don't know what JW is.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), March 09, 2001.

My apologies: though I did not lie, two of my statements may be construed as innaccurate. One: the turning in of old literature was not an organizational directive, it was the choice of some congregations. Two: the bound volume which was altered was the one mentioning the year 2000, otherwise, I know of no others that were altered.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), March 10, 2001.

To A Person Who Knows All About JW's,

You obviously don't have a clue about what you're talking about.Yes JW's don't take blood, but they have never banned transplants,aluminum cooking utensils(that is too funny),or vaccinations.Also, what they read is not up to anyone but themselves.If you know anything about true cults,they obviously aren't one since they worship Jehovah and not a person.It sounds to me like maybe you are a disfellowshipped Witness.

You sound like a thoroughly unhappy,mean-spirited,and uneducated person yourself.Growing up as a JW,I respect the religion alot as I do all religions even though I myself am not a relgious person.See,there comes a time when you are mature enough to respect anothers belief even though it's not what you believe.Maybe you'll grow up enough to realize that.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 10, 2001.

nobrabbit, I can appreciate your wanting to defend JW belief. Sometimes the accusations made against them sound wild and full of emotion. Buried in those emotional words, however, can be true statements. For instance, you said:

"You obviously don't have a clue about what you're talking about.Yes JW's don't take blood, but they have never banned transplants,aluminum cooking utensils(that is too funny),or vaccinations."

In fact, they did have a clue. JWs have banned all those things in the past. Notice:

Transplants were called "cannibalistic" in the Questions from Readers in the 11/15/67 WT, p. 702, and were a disfellowshipping offense. This ban was later rescinded in the QfR in the 3/15/80 WT., p. 30 where it said that it was not "cannibalistic" at all and was actually a conscience matter.

Vaccinations were called a "crime, an outrage, and a delusion" in the 1929 Golden Age, p. 502. In 1921, in the Oct 12 issue of the Golden Age, p. 17, it said, "Vaccination never prevented anything and never will, and is the most barbarous practice. . . Use your rights as American citizens to forever abolish the devilish practice of vaccinations." It wasn't until the 12/15/52 Wt, p. 764 when the Society rescinded the ban on vaccinations, saying it was up to each individual to decide.

Aluminum cooking utensils (yes, believe it or not) really were condemned by the Society. Just to take one example of many, in the 9/23/36 Golden Age, there was an article called, "Aluminum Poisoning Achievements" that began: "Deaths from cancer have increased steadily since 1900. At that time 63 of every 100,000 persons died from that cause; the present death rate is 102 peer 100,000. The rate of progress in the wrong direction ahs kept step steadily with the increased use of aluminum cooking utensils. Not everyone who uses aluminum gets cancer, of course, but all stand a chance of getting it." This was one of many anti-aluminum cooking utensil articles from that time.

I don't ask you to believe me. Look up the references for yourself in the Kingdom Hall library (if your Hall has bound volumes going back that far -- mine does, but I know not every Hall has them). JWs really were told to not take vaccinations, organ transplants, and not to use aluminum cookware just as we are told today to avoid blood.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 10, 2001.

Seeker,

As I stated I am not a JW,therefore I don't have a "Hall".As with all religions,JW's have changed and metamorphed over the years.To bring up a doctrine that existed years ago is not an educated argument against the religion.I'm not sure about the accuracy of your "transplant" info.The thing with transplants as I understand it is the blood issue.I was a child in the Truth at that time,certainly between 1967-1980 and there were quite a few Witnesses that had transplants done.I will have to defer to my mom on that one.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 10, 2001.

nobrabbit, I wasn't addressing my comment only to you, but to anyone who might not have been aware of JW history on those subjects. That's why I mentioned going to the Hall library.

As to bringing these subjects up, I was merely responding to your statement that such things were never frowned upon. Since they were, I wanted to correct that with actual references for anyone who cared to see the history of the doctrines.

As for JWs taking organ transplants back when the Society said not to, such anecdotal evidence doesn't negate what was officially taught. JWs may not always do what they are supposed to do, but what is taught is set in print for all to see what the official line was.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 10, 2001.

Shame on you! This lovely person posted a topic merely asking if there were any other JWs on the forum. In addition to some nice replies, she has also received some incredibly mean-spirited ones. Who asked anybody to post a reply here denigrating others' beliefs? For those of you who "HATE" religious topics, or have zero tolerance for others' beliefs, when it becomes apparent to you that a topic is of a religious bent, LEAVE IT ALONE!!! Don't you have anything else to do??????? You are disgraceful. BTW, there are tons of Amish who will not use aluminum pans..that is hardly a tenet of their faith. Shameful behavior! I am so blessed that some of these folks are NOT my neighbors because I sure would not want to know you.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), March 10, 2001.

I suspect every religion undergoes change. Take the Catholic Church as an example. Thirty years ago women didn't go to church without their heads covered and no woman would have even considered wearing anything other than a dress. Weekly confessions were the norm. Masses were in Latin. Cremation wasn't sanctioned. Women were not allowed inside the altar rail except for marriages. Girls could not serve the priest during mass. Only a priest could give out communion. Basically congregations listened to the choir, but didn't join in. A priest's sermon was likely a reading out of the Bible. All of that has now changed. Recently the Pope issued a statement Hell isn't a physical place of eternal firery damnation, but rather a state of not being with God.

I don't see the JW taking their guidance from the Watch Tower, and their services being based around it, any different than a fundamentalist sect taking their guidance from the Bible and the Bible only, whichever version is used, or thirty years ago when Catholics consulted the Catholic Digest (or whatever it was called) to see what movies they could go to, or Afro-American congregations having their ministers tell them who to vote for.

Being tolerant of each other's views needs to also extend to religious or political subjects.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), March 10, 2001.

It certainly wasn't my intention to cause offense; I was only trying to correct a wrong statement made about JW beliefs. But now that we have had shame called down upon us, may I point out something that has always puzzled me?

It is funny to realize that JWs will use absolutely any occasion (weddings, funerals, shopping, online chat) to give an informal witness to others. But the moment someone tries the exact same tactic in return, they cry foul! Shame on them for using the same tactic that JWs do. Well, sorry, but in my book that's hypocrisy. If JWs don't want to hear others criticize their religion, JWs shouldn't criticize other religions. That's only fair.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 10, 2001.

Lesley-she did not merely ask to get in touch with other JW's, I quote: "One question that many wonder about is>>>>>Just what is the Kingdom that Jesus told us to pray for in the Lords Prayer, according to the Bible. Matthew 6:9,10,,Looking forward to hearing from you.....:-)" This question is straight out of the Kingdom Ministry and is used to initiate conversations in the door to door work. By asking this question she is looking for the opportunity to preach with the goal of making disciples. It's what Witnesses do and are trained to do at every available opportunity. BTW, when Patsy there prays that the Kingdom comes, she's praying for the day god destroys you and your demonic children along with 99.9% of the rest of mankind. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is not a religion; it is a world-wide publishing corporation that takes in billions of dollars in the US alone. They deceive and control Witnesses in every aspect of their lives and destroy families, mine included. I have every right to reply as I have considering every few weeks I have to take my ex-husband in hand for causing my daughter to have nightmares because he's been reading her their version of the book of bible stories and the day your three year old looks up into your eyes and says 'you're not my mommy anymore because you're going to die soon', then you tell me how disgraceful I am. Because my ex-husband beat me the elders told me I needed to get on some personality-altering drugs like most the other Witness wives, and when I refused and opted out of the organization every friend I had shunned me and refused to ever speak to me again. Mine is not a rare case, just do a quick internet search and see how many are willing to share their hurtful experiences from that organization. Neither is it rare for childmolestors to be wandering around in those congregations because elders do not disclose why someone is disciplined and they don't report it to authorities if they don't have to. In my previous congregation I became engaged to a man who it turned out was a childmolestor and when I questioned the elders as to wether it was true or not, they weren't allowed to tell me. If his ex-wife hadn't broken the rules to tell me, my daughter could have been seriously hurt. This is not merely a difference of religious opinion, this is a matter of my neighbors' emotional and physical well-being. The disgrace would be if I did not speak up and prevent just one more person from being seduced into that abomination.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), March 11, 2001.

Hello,,well it seems I certainly stirred up a lot of grievances and hostile thoughts,,sorry...Also, I want to thank nobrabbit, lesley and Ken,,for their kind, understanding, comments and tolerance of the feelings and views of all.***It is true I love to talk about the Bible and it's teachings and the recorded teachings of Jesus..he is our example, teacher, and the greatest man to ever walk the earth. He talked about God's Kingdom a lot, among many other things that he taught the people of his time. Is this a bad thing to talk about? No, I think it is a good topic, but I sure don't want to see such unpleasant vehemence on the forum because of my choice..so I will not initiate a specific Bible topic again, but will answer any questions specifically from the Bible. I cannot be responsible for what happened back in the early part of the 20th century and the changes made, although I think most organizations go thru evolution, changes for the better as knowledge is increased and the organization realizes a need to correct previous views. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is not against God's word. In our short life-times we live and learn and change in many ways as we age. It is just a part of life,of growing, gaining maturity.***Why do people get so upset? I think perhaps it is because of a personal experience or intolerance for "different" religions that they don't really understand. We all must make choices in life and of course these choices will be personal and differ from lots of other people.****About religions, some have a very dark history, one initiating the inquisiton, it was a case of intolerance, power hunger, and greed. Than there are some religions that have commited suicide for there beliefs. Some require that their followers deny themselves even the smallest pleasures, etc. Some will starve before eating a cow because of there beliefs. Their choices. I meet a lot of people of other religions,,I look upon them as a "person" deserving respect, the right to civility, and personal views without my judgement,,god judges us all and I don't take it upon myself to say "How" God will judge,,that is His right. What I do is present what the Bible says, have a nice discussion and keep it that way. If someone gets extremely upset,,I apologize and take my leave. Can't reason with a predetermined mentality that wants to get hostile.***I meet a lot of people that just enjoy visitors and want to talk about a lot of other things not religious, so we talk about those things. It makes them feel better to have a listening ear and a friendly person to talk to. Some of these people hardly have any visitors. Older folks especially, Some don't want to talk with me at all..I respect them as well.***I will answer some comments made on the forum as time allows, ..and I hold no grudges against anyone. :),Take care,,,

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 11, 2001.

Patsy,

Please don't let the narrow-mindedness and hypocrisy of some on this forum bring you down.I've enjoyed your postings.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 11, 2001.

""We have a kind and loving interest in people of all religions, but when their religious beliefs and practices are false and merit God's disapproval, it is showing love to bring this to their attention by exposing falsehood. [...] We follow in Jesus' footsteps by drawing attention to what God's Word says, which can be to the everlasting benefit of those who will hear." (Awake! July 8, 1988, p. 28)

When JWs expose the falsehood of other religions, it is out of a kind and loving interest. When someone exposes the falsehoods of JWs, it is "narrow-mindednes and hypocrisy." As I said before, we as JWs need to be able to take it if we are going to dish it out to others. If we complain every time someone preaches to us, that is the true hypocrisy.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Seeker,

Why are you being so touchy?The narrow-mindedness and hypocrisy remark was not aimed at you but at the underlying hostility of some of the posters.I am a non-religious person and could end up endlessly griping about the "preaching" that seems to enter so many of the topics on this forum.But,I take it in the spirit most of them are intended (I hope) as concern and well-being for your neighbor.I just hate when people are put down for being different and I thank goodness we are all different for what a boring world it would be otherwise.Any religion can be put under a microscope and horror stories will arise from someone's affiliation with it.If I offended you by not acknowledging the truth of your statements about the aluminum,etc.,then I appologize.Most of that took place before I was a child in the truth and I plead ignorance.

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 11, 2001.

Ah, my apologies, nobrabbit. I thought you were including my comments in the hypocritical category, and couldn't figure out why.

I also believe that each person should decide for him or herself what to believe, and that choice should be respected by others. I tend to jump into these conversations only to correct things I know to be untrue. I've seen online "facts" take on a life of their own if not corrected.

Then, after doing so, when I see comments chastising (I thought) me for standing up for accuracy, I grew confused. I see I really was confused, if those comments weren't meant for me, and I apologize if I reacted too quickly or in a way that was offensive.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Seeker,

I'm pleased we achieved an understanding of each others postings without internet bloodshed!

-- nobrabbit (conlane@prodigy.net), March 11, 2001.

Patsy, I have several JW friends. I admire the standards of morality and Godliness that is practiced by most of your Fellowship that puts most other churches to shame. As far as sinners hiding in the church, they are hiding in EVERY church.

The fundamental differences between JW and other Christian churches is that JW do not believe in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, nor the deity of Jesus Christ. The deity of Jesus Christ is the foundation of Christian belief.

According to my friend, who tried once to convert me, Jesus is really the angel Michael, and the Holy Spirit is only a cosmic force. The parts in the Bible of God loving you and seeking a PERSONAL relationship with you, living in Christ, hearing the still small voice of God, receiving of the Holy Spirit as your comforter and your teacher, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc.....are totally NOT taught in the Kingdom Hall. These parts of the Bible are treated as "...they REALLY mean...." something so intellectually convoluted that the average person cannot understand without the direct teaching of your intellectual superior.

God wrote the Bible for all of us, for all levels of understanding, for the simple and the genius, for those who wish to go deep and those who wish to stand in shallow water. The Word speaks to us on the natural level and it speaks to us on the spiritual level and no where does it demand a level of intellectualism to have a relationship with God. Intellectualism is the folly of man and a tool of Satan.

I don't care which church you belong to, as long as you seek salvation throught Jesus Christ whose blood was shed for your sins.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Laura, that was beautiful. I want thank you for it.

-- Lena(NC) (breezex4@go.com), March 11, 2001.

You can always bet that a thread on this forum that goes over 30 is about religion or politics!

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.

Hi Epona,,thank you for the corrections on the literature and the volumes. I want to say that most of what you mentioned is true, just a few mistaken ideas. Two of which you corrected.***1, Another is that the Witnesses stated that the year 2000 was when Armageddon would begin. Not so,,in fact it is clearly stated in our Watchtower Magazine (November 1, 1999) that we did not at any time as an organization advocate that statement. Being human, many of us like to speculate about events,,and as individuals perhaps many JWs were voicing their thoughts that just maybe it would be when Armageddon would start. And many people thought it was the end of the world as we know it. The scriptures clearly state that that no man knows the day or hour of that day. Matthew 24:36 and Acts 1:7, Matthew 24 is a whole chapter on the signs of the "last days", but it does not give the date of Armageddon. Jesus told his followers not to be overly worried about times and places,,but to be doing the work of the Lord. Matthew 28: 19,20***Many people and organizations did speculate much about the year 2000, as we are all aware of. It was an exciting and unusual year. ***2,It was mentioned too that the light of understanding has "plum gone out" . We don't feel that way,,and Psalms 119:105 and Proverbs 4:18 shows that it won't go out, also Jesus made a statement at John 8:12,,showing he would always be teaching the light of truth to anyone who searches for understanding and follows his footsteps. Oh,,and I don't know about the literature of 1700. I only know that the Watchtower, (than called Zion's Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presense) was not printed til the year 1879, just previous to that magazine a publication called the "Herald" was published by the Editor of the Zions WAtchtower.upholding the 'light of truth'. The Watchtower and Tract Society was first formed in 1881 aand legally incorporated in Pennsylvania in 1884. Of course history has always had defenders of God's Word,easy for anyone to read about in local libraries. Many of Jws publications can be found in libraries. Magazines also are in some libraries.,*** Just a thought Epona, ,,I have been studying the Bible for many years as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I still make mistakes about society statements and exactly what a scripture may say. "To be human is to err" someone said. But that is why the Bible is such a wonderful gift from our heavenly Father,,we can search it and find answers.***It has been a pleasure talking with you and I hope we can be friends,, I do want to apologize for the way I stated my first reaction,,"just not true"...I should have said "you are mistaken",,,I live and learn and so glad to do so...

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 11, 2001.

Hi John,,thanks for the advice and from now on I will put (religious) if my post are of that nature,,have a good night...

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 11, 2001.

I offer these comments with respect for everyone that may read them. :-) ,,I think that informed persons know that it is not only JWs that do not accept transplants, and do not use certain kinds of utensil and do not accept blood transfusions,(has a more serious status) and do not want to kill people in wars,,etc..Our magazines offer facts, what people decide to do with these facts is of course their business. Just like smoking, We have had articles on smoking and it's adverse affects. Many choose to ignore the attorney general warning on the packs. A personal decision,, many of the decisions that people make are personal,,like having an abortion, (which we don't condone) but these types of decisions are very personal and the consequences are always inevitable, some bad , some not so bad, but our conscience is involved also. Some folks have a sensitive conscience and some not so sensitive, thus decisions come differently.*I appreciate any magazine or publication that states truth about things that affect the lives of people. I love the Awake and Watchtower for those reasons and the fact that it is not prejudice and gives attention to people all over the world. My next favorite magazine is the Countryside Magazine,truly a gem!***Take care....

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 11, 2001.

Patsy, that was such a pleasant response I hesitate to say anything about it. But I will try in a nice way to explain where two of those ideas came from:

1. The year 2000 business. As you correctly noted, the Society never pointed to the year 2000 as being the year for Armageddon. Commendably, they explicitly pointed this out in 1999. So where would this idea come from? One place was in this quote:

"Shortly within our twentieth century, the “battle in the  day of Jehovah” will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah -  How? 1971 p. 216

Understandably, many old-time JWs would have read that and believed what the Society wrote. Since 2000 was the last year of the twentieth century, it was the last chance for the Society's prediction to come true. No doubt that's where the idea of the year 2000 came from.

2. The 1700s literature. As you correctly noted, the Watchtower only began to be printed in the year 1879 and there is no literature from the 1700s. However, the literature in the 1800s did point to the 1700s as being significant, and I think that is what she meant by her comment. For instance, the famous Cedar Point 1922 talk, "Advertise, advertise, advertise the king and his kingdom" is often quoted in our history. What is never quoted is the reason they were to advertise the kingdom at that time: Because the time of the end began in 1799 and Jesus had been ruling in heaven since 1874. If you read the full text of that 1922 speech, you'll see those dates mentioned. Also note this quote from the same year:

"The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)

Again, I'm only trying to explain where these ideas came from.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 11, 2001.

A few years ago, I had the pleasure of getting to know a gentleman who is a JW. I remember well sitting on the tailgate of our old truck and sharing our different beliefs. We respected each other too much to disagree and I learned a lot about his beliefs. It was a wonderful experience for me. I am not a JW and probably never will be, but I respect their faith and I hope that they will respect mine. God bless.

-- Ardie From WI (a6203@hotmail.com), March 12, 2001.

We just had a pleasant visit from some witnesses today. Although I am not a JW, I have studied with them for several months and we did find some common ground on many things. I cannot understand the animosity that some people have towards them, slamming the door in their faces, etc. Even many 'Christians' I have known boast about various things they've done to try to discourage the witnesses from coming around. They are going out of their way, putting themselves in danger to bring a message of hope to others. I feel that the least I can do is to listen sincerely to what they are saying and to discuss it a little if I disagree.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), March 13, 2001.

Laura I could'nt have put it better. I was waiting for someone to mention about JW's believing that Jesus was Michael the arch angel. That seems to be more important than anything else that has been discussed.

-- Sarah from NC (Caswell995@cs.com), March 13, 2001.

Rebekah,

I've puzzled over this issue as well, but I think I understand the dynamics involved now. When people complain about or oppose JWs, it's not necessarily the individual JWs they are targetting, but the religion itself and the teachings of the religion. Oh sure, they might get annoyed at being disturbed at the door, but I don't think they have it in for the individual Witness standing there. After all, they don't know the person, do they?

Let me use an extreme example to make the point: When we criticize the actions of the cult in Waco, Texas, are we picking on the individual members who belonged to that cult? Not really. We tend to assume they were deluded. Individually, they may have been very nice persons, if we got to know them. But we still condemn the overall actions taken by the cult (not to mention the actions of the government, but that's another subject).

Actually, that's another analogy that works. Let's say you get sick and tired of the way the government is run. Taxes are high, laws make no sense, corruption is rampant. Does that mean you are complaining about Joe Civil Servant down at the local government office? Not at all. Joe might be a very decent guy who just happens to work for an institution that drives you nuts.

That's what I think a lot of the anti-JW talk is all about. Not directed personally at individual JWs (most of whom are decent, friendly folks), but at the organization they represent. On the Net, I see just as much virulence directed at the Mormons and the Scientologists, but again, I doubt any hatred is directed at individual Mormons and Scientologists, just the organization they represent.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 13, 2001.

This all reminds me of why it is that we have seperation of church and state and don't teach religion in schools.

-- j emdall (jemdall@excite.com), March 13, 2001.

Hi J. ok,,that does avoid a lot of discussion,,My opinion is that all children should be taught about God and his son, Jesus, butlike you said, not by teachers in school. It is a family matter,,thanks for your response..

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 13, 2001.

Hi Seeker,,I sure enjoyed your well thought out comments. Your illustrations are helpful in getting a better understanding. I always enjoy the Public Talks at the KH even more when illustrations are used. Jesus always used lots of illustrations when he was teaching the crowds.***thanks again,,,

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 13, 2001.

Seeker, I failed to mention about all those dates you pointed out and about Christ presence, thank you, that took some research. I do have a hard time remembering dates but I have looked again into some of the History of JWs early literature and found the dates mentioned. One interesting fact is that the two main persons that were writing and publishing the literature at that time had a disagreement over the date of Christ second presence.. and they went their separate ways..In view of a more accurate study of Bible chronology, 1914 is the date the organization holds as the accurate date. Just a note.<<<
-- Patsy J (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 13, 2001.

Just want to thank Rebecka, Laura, Lena, Sarah, also for their response,and anyone I might have missed. Appreciate your comments and interest. I am sorry I haven't got to everyone sooner. Have been swamped with email, which is great! I have other obligations and chores and add to the fact that I am out 5 days a week looking for a job. There have been so many lay-offs here in Montana,,and I know it is going on a lot nation-wide, sad state of affairs, for sure. I get plum wore out,,:-) ,,Til next time,,keep them fires going,,,

-- Patsy (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 13, 2001.

one more post to add to the list. I was a JW in years past but becausethe hallis so small, the members all being related it was hard for them to accept new comers. Even if the new members were upstandng from another hall. My family struggled with the division foryears and when I went the wrong way one time they werequick to scold me and "bannish" me from the hall. But when the Elder's brother caused the sme disturbance he got only a warning andthe elder gave him a job and a place for him and his pregant girlfriend a place to live. No matter how hard we tried to fit in and belong they were always keeping us at a distance. After a while I decided that I wantd friends. Not to be shuned all the time even after I had served my time and jumped through thehoops for them to acceptme. Also they were at one time preaching to the extreeme about watching how you sin. ( I mean how much and how often). They did this so much I was always looking over my shoulder to see if I was bieng watched and if all I was doing was considered sinning. Got so bad that I had health problems because of it. So I finally prayed a bout it and decided that if God wanted his followers to be that sick with fear, then I was destined to be a goner. I still feel that I and my Husband and children are Christians. I always felt that JW's thought they were Christains.

-- michelle (tsjheath@ainop.com), March 14, 2001.

I saw something that really bothered me, since I thought that blood was thicker than water. A JW family's daughter was not married and had 2 babies by 2 different fathers. The family/religion accepted this. The daughter then moved in with a female lover. The parents were no longer allowed to have any further contact with the daughter. Sorry, but I guess I AM 'homophobic' 'cause I can't accept it, but no one would be able to tell me that I couldn't see my child.

I've always felt sorry for the JW kids. They couldn't join 4-H, girl/boy scouts, play team sports, etc....be at any function where the American flag was saluted. And the JW's don't vote. I've never been told why they live in this country and are so un-American.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), March 14, 2001.

I am not a JW, but have talked with many. Well, I really don't understand why they want you to accept their literature but will refuse your own literature about your view on things. Well, I don't share this next statement with many people, because they sometimes will think I'm crazy. When I was a small child I was healed by God, so if I share that with a JW they get nervous and really don't want to stay and discuss anything more with me. Most people anyway will just laugh and say that I'm nuts. That is fine, I don't really care because I KNOW the truth and so does God and that is all that matters. Because God and I have a very personal relationship with each other-spiritually. I know what God is about and God knows what I'm about and I have had some pretty fantastic things happen in my life, that are simply unexplainable in human terms. I could write a book! Well, I hope that you find the information that you need to help you understand and converse with your other JW friends. As for me I'm content on where I am and the Lord has furnished me with all the info that I need as I grow and learn more about Him. Peace be with you. From, Blessed in Michigan

-- Heaven's Half Acre (FreeTrialSchoen@aol.com), March 14, 2001.

OK, let me try to answer some of the issues that have been just raised:

michelle, your experience at the Kingdom Hall is not unique. Yet other JWs might say, "Huh? That's not the way my congregation is like at all!" What gives? Simply this: Congregations are run locally, by the local body of elders, with very little input from outside. Yes, they are under the circuit overseer, and the Society, but a local body of elders can bluff their way past this usually and do whatever they want. So some congregations are real havens of peace and friendliness. Others are hotbeds of backstabbing and intrigue. The problem with drawing conclusions based on individual experiences is that it is just anecdotal evidence, not necessarily a trend that can be extrapolated across the board. I'm sorry you had such a rough experience, though.

Rogo, how could a JW daughter have 2 children out of wedlock and not be disfellowshipped, and then move in with a female lover and be disfellowshipped? Probably the elders felt she was repentant after her flings that resulted in children. Thus no need to disfellowship. But when she moved in with someone, and thus was viewed as having an ongoing immoral relationship (not just a one-time fling), she could hardly claim to them to be repentant, for it was ongoing. And this has nothing to do with homophobia, as the same thing would have resulted if she had moved in with a guy. I don't know the facts, but this seems to me to be the most likely explanation.

Rogo, you also said, "And the JW's don't vote. I've never been told why they live in this country and are so un-American." JWs don't vote because they feel they have already chosen God's kingdom, and are taught that to vote for a human ruler is to be disloyal to Jesus' reign as king. It's not so much 'un-American' as it is 'un-all- governments', for they refuse to vote in all countries, remaining neutral. This may be changing, as a Question From Readers in a Watchtower magazine last year loosened the rules a little bit toward voting. You still can't vote as a JW, but if you go into the voting booth, no one is supposed to question what you did in there (maybe you just left the ballot blank for instance, in a country were you are forced to go to the polls). We'll see. One U.S. Circuit Overseer, when asked about this QFR, said it 'wasn't meant for the U.S.' but that's irrelevant. It was in print, and that's final. Maybe we are seeing the gradual loosening up on this issue. Time will tell.

Heaven's Half Acre, JWs won't accept literature from other religions because they feel their religion is right and all the others are wrong, so what's the point of reading their literature -- they already found the truth.

-- Seeker (seeker12345@hotmail.com), March 15, 2001.

j emdall, no such thing as separation of church and state. It's just another twisted lie.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), March 15, 2001.

Hi Michelle...Sure hope you are enjoying Spring,,here in Montana "Spring is popping up all over", finally.***Resppnse to your comments..When moving to a new area and attending a new Kingdom Hall it is difficult, as a young person especially,,(but us older ones have some problems also)...It takes awhile to get to know people and for them to know you,,although usually new folks are given a lot of attention at the Kg. Hall. We always were. But that can be different when it comes to other affairs. I think it is especially hard for young folks because the need to "fit in" and be a part of the young activities is crucial, but , I have found that many times young people don't always "think" to invite new ones to their activities. There are exceptions...When we moved here to our New Hall,,everyone was so friendly and still are,,but as for outside activities, everyone is so absorbed in their families, work, responsibilities, and problems,,it sometimes takes all one has just to take care of those things..So, what I did is always make sure to be at the Get-To- Gethers (large congregation picnics) and made sure my kids always were there to get to know people and have fun. We always have lots of games going on,,lots of food and socializing,,,usually at a park or someone's ranch,In the cold weather we have them inside a community center or some large place,,We have a degree of responsibility to mingle,,give of ourselves to get acquainted with new friends. We can't blame it all on the folks we are just getting to know.,it is the same with school and a new job, there will be those that seem to ignore us, or avoid us, and stare at us out of curiosity.,We may stare back,,:-),, A new family can take the initiative and invite folks over to their place for a small picnic or large one,,young people usually fo invite other teens to their house or to go places together,,have good, clean, fun,,I see it going on here all the time.***So, it you had been used to another kind of atmosphere at you former Hall, of course there would be an "adjustment period".***I went thru some of the same hurt feelings you mentioned and my boys did too,,but we kept trying to adjust, and eventually they got to do things with the new kids and stay overnight, go camping and lots of things...I have wonderful friends and I know what is going on in their lives and understand them much better..as they do me,,,(I hope) :-),,)We do see failings on the part of some,,and partiality as well, but do we know and understand the "whole" story? Probably not..Of course that Elder 9you mentioned) would help his son (and woman) find a place to live. That doesn't mean that he (the Elder) condones the wrong doing. Wouldn't you help your child no matter what circumstances that child was in.? Of course you would. We don't stop loving our children because they do wrong and make harmful mistakes along the road of life. Gosh! I made so many it makes my head swim..no one is or can be perfect. Our attitude about wrong doing makes all the difference it the world to God. That is why he gives us the privilege of prayer. To ask for forgiveness with a sincere heart. The Bible encourages us to strive for perfection, (or keep improving as a Christian and individual) It only benefits us and those around us if we follow as closely as possible the Bible's guidance. .. James 5:15, Matthew 5:46-48...Doesn't do anyone harm to keep trying. The only man on earth that was perfect is God's Son,Jesus Christ, John 10:36,, no sin was found in him..1 Peter 2:21- 22. I hope you don't mind me citing these scriptures for you, I noticed that you are interested in Christianity as a family.***Another comment made in your answer was that you were "banishe" from the Kingdom Hall,,now Michelle, honey, you know that "no one" is EVER banished from the Kingdom Hall,,You can attend anytime you want,,the Public is welcome at all times. What you may have felt as banishment was most likely disciplinary action of disfellowshipping for your wrong doing. Is that so? (That is another subject for discussing) but anyone that is Disfellowshipped is encouraged to come to the Kg. Hall and Listen to the wonderful words of Jehovah,,and this may humble them and soften their hearts and help them to be repentant, and if so, God forgives and the Congregation welcomes such ones back with open armas. If God forgives, how can we not? Love covers a multitude of sins..stated in Bible.***If a young one feels like they are under pressure "not to do wrong" it is true.. As JWs we try to instill good moral ethics and a knowledge of results of certain actions. We are tempted daily by so much badness in the world,,especially young ones. Drugs, loose sex, gangs, smoking, drunkeness, the list goes on,,,Gosh, even adults do these things, how can our young ones not when most outside examples of these horrible things are thrown at them daily...it takes strong determination, avoiding those who are so inclined, and a prayerful attitude with strong Faith..and loving parents that care. It itakes a miracle to get our young ones thru the "teen" years unscathed. But even if they fall,,we as parents can be there to pick them up and try our best to help them. We can only do our best...You as a parent now, understand that.***Yes Jehovah Witnesses do regard ourselves as Christians..always have. You had mentioned this also. Nothing I said was meant to offend, just to encourage, and show the "otherside" of a thought. Take care Michelle,,never underestimate the power of prayer,,the line is always open,,

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 23, 2001.

Gee, Patsy, I couldn't even read your last post because it is all one large block of text. I suggest paragraphs, with a blank space between each, for easier readability.

On this forum, there are two ways to make paragraphs. The easiest is to just hit the return key twice at the end of the paragraph. If you aren't familiar with typing, on most computer keyboards, the Enter key is the return key for typing in text. The other method is to use HTML, something that most of us prefer to avoid.

So, give it a try, and help out some poor old eyes please?

-- Joy F (So.Central Wisconsin) (CatFlunky@excite.com), March 23, 2001.

Epona,,I kind of spaced out your 'second' big response to my thread, one that tells me you live with a lot of pain and resentment,,for that I am sorry. I should have responded sooner, because some folks view "silence as consent",, just got away from me. However, I have to speak up and address your griefs..We as an organization or individuals do not pray that people and their children are destroyed when we pray for the "Kingdom to Come", (What a mean thing to say)...,Jesus told his followers to Pray for that Kingdom, ("the son of God") as recorded for us in Matthew 6:9,10. Jesus wouldn't tell us that if it were wrong,,I explained more about the Kingdom in a previous comment and can offer scriptures about the Kingdom if anyone is interested.*** There are over 6,000,000 JWs world-wide with over 100,000 congregations and we are a recognized religion, World-Wide. (can find this info if do some research, it is easy to find). Where did all these JWs come from? Among the peoples from all nations, all types of people,,families, children, elderly, single folks,,rich and poor,,city and country folks. None of them pray for families to be destroyed. We do just the opposite,,we pray that people will come to an accurate knowledge of God,receive his blessings, as God says himself in the bible, he desires all sorts of people to be saved... 1 Timothy 2:3,4,,**Even the most wicked can have a change of heart and turn sincerely to God,and be forgiven if sincere.**,Perhaps you are referring to the people that will be destroyed at Armageddon? That is God's War and in his hands,,we are not the judge. We love people and that is why we share in the great preaching work and go to the homes of people to share Good News from the Bible. So many people get all absorbed in life that there is a tendency to forget about God,,we remind them,,nothing wrong with that. It is a wonderful work. We many nice folks in our work.***As one other person brought out..there are bad including (child molestors was what you mentioned) people hiding in every religion,,,perhaps wanting to change or wanting to seduce someone,,but if that fact is found out,,they are disfellowshipped from JW organizaton,,it is not tolerated. However, a door is always open for repentant ones. A loving provision.*the Elders know their position, and apply confidentiality. However, it was very loving of the sister to disclose the answers to you concerning the brother you were going to marry. That is scary. I am glad you found out and avoided that situation.*****Sorry about your past family problems,,but this is a personal situation,,only you and your husband know the true facts. If someone beat me,,I'd just leave,,no matter who he was. In fact, that did happen to me, however he was not a JW. (I left, my choice). A man doesn't love his wife it he beats her, I don't hold with the excuse "he lost it in a fit of anger". It is cowardly, upsets the children, solves nothing. However, if it is a JW that does such a thing,,does that change the Truth of God? His counsel to husbands is to love their wives as themselves. To treat them with kindness, and for Wives to show deep respect for their husbands. Ephesians 5:28-33...It is up to individuals to apply the counsel given them from the Bible.****I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl, very unpleasant experiences in my life due to my mistakes, wrong choices,,,but through it all I never gave up on myself nor Jehovah God,,,I love him deeply.***and know that I offer these comments in a spirit of mildness, and respect for you. Never underestimate the power of prayer...

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 23, 2001.

Was pondering a question asked and stated on a couple posts. Do Jehovah's Witnesses view themselves as Christians? The answer is yes,,and always have but, let me give you basis for our reasons. Christians are suppose to be "followers of christ", as shown in their activities when Jesus Christ walked the earth. Christ followers were first called Christians in Antioch,(Acts 11:26) a city in Syria, on the S. side of the Orontes River. In Bible times Syria was NE of Eygpt and N of the Arabian desert, (Asia continent)***If a person reads the book of Acts, it will show that the Christians were very busy at that time, spreading the Good New of the Kingdom and telling others about Jesus and his miracles,,,etc. Even a King (King Agrippa) was affected in a positive way by the message he heard from the early Christians.(Acts 26:28) Many high officials were also,, and some embraced the Christian teachings.(Can supply that information upon request)The Apostle Peter had much to say about the sufferings of Christ Jesus,,and how his followers (christians) would suffer also..and not to feel shame if that happened. (1 Peter 4:16) There is much more information concerning this question,,,but these are a few Scriptures I thought were very interesting and wanted to share them with whoever is interested..***REMEMBER,Prayer is a open communication between God and Man,,never get a "busy" signal, free of charge, and God is always on the other end "listening"....THINK SPRING!!

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 26, 2001.

Hi Seeker,,,,Your comments on voting (March 15),makes it sound like JWs would go into a voting booth just to appease men. Don't think that was your intention.*****

Thousands of JWs have been killed brutally in many countries because they won't vote, or because they wouldn't buy a voting card.,won't take up arms and kill their fellow man in war,, Here in the US and also in Greece, many JWs chose prison rather than go to war and kill their fellow man,(conscientious objector), there are many peoples that chose to be a conscientious objector that aren't JWs.*****

Whole families of JWs have been stood up and shot in firing squads because they wouldn't "Hail" Hitler..*** So I'm saying,, why go to a voting booth and go inside if that is hypocrital to what a person believes in?

Many chose to be a martyr rather than renounce their faith,, this has happened all thru the generations,,some folks just feel that strong about what they believe,, and not only Jehovah's Witnesses.

*I think you are aware of all of this,,because it looks like you have read a lot of our literature. And I do enjoy reading your comments.

I for one would never go into a voting booth since I feel so strongly about God's Kingdom as my hope for Peace On Earth. Are you a baptised JW? If so,,with the knowledge that you have,,how do you feel about that.*** Would you tell me what Watchtower magazine has that Questions from Readers about voting? I am going to look and see if I can find it also.**** These comments are offered to be informative and with deep respect for all who read them. Catch you later,,,Take care,,

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 27, 2001.

I have a question. Why are Jehovah's Witnesses labeled "extremist" when they are only doing what the Bible says? I am not a JW and I would like an answer if possible.

-- Andrew Woodall (awoodall14@yahoo.com), October 02, 2001.

Hi Andrew,,***thank you for your interest and question. So nice to meet you. I meant to get back to you sooner,,than I lost your address,but found you again on the Forum.,***Your question "Why are JWs labelled as "extremist" by some people?" Good question.

I can understand why some may think of us that way. Most people view worshiping God and serving him as a "part" of their weekly or casual activities. Not the focus of their life. We, as Jehovah's Witnesses, view our worship and preaching work as the MAIN focus of our life. It is a living, breathing, part of us.

Some people can be viewed as extremist because of what is most important to them in life,,for instance,,a work-a-holic,,,some view this as extreme,,that is the top priority in their life. Or some are viewed as extreme because of a certain interest or hobby. The dictionary has some good explanations of extreme and extremist.

I guess many view JWs as extremist because we are so envolved in our faith. It is a "Way" of life. In Jesus day Christianity was called "THE WAY". Found in the Bible at Acts 9:2 and Acts 19:9,,in newer translations of the Bible,,The King James, calls it "this Way' and "that Way",,,The point being it was a "way" of life. Jehovah's Witnesses live their faith. Always progressively appling Bible principals in daily living. We have meetings 3 days a week,,,a (ministry school included)weekly. We go out into the preaching work regularly,, some are full-time ministers,(so many hours of volunteer work a month),because their circumstances allow them the time. Some go part-time,,,to bring the wonderful message of hope and to encourage more Bible study to those who are interested. We do this as a family,,we have family worship and Bible studies at home as well.

But we are always ready to talk about Gods word and what it teaches to anyone,help people find answers right from their own Bibles. At work (on breaks) at laundry mats,at school,or anywhere we may have to spend time waiting,,etc. We are very serious about our Faith and are always ready to speak to anyone interested.2 Timothy 3:16,17***

Jehovah's Witnesses have went to court all over the world to establish rights to the freedom of worship and to do our preaching work. And still do if necessary. This has benefited not only our Faith, but has helped to establish and keep freedom for religions everywhere. (1 Peter 3:15) Jehovah's Witnesses are well established, organized,and recognized the world over as a legal and Zealous religion. We have well documented history books or all such actions. We are open to the public, and invite any to come and tour our buildings and Kingdom Halls. Nothing secret about what we do.

Another thought too Andrew, we stick to the teachings of the Bible regardless of the current thoughts of society. Some think that Bible teachings are old fashioned and don't apply now. Some put life, country,lifestyle choices, etc, before God,,,We don't. Again ,,that takes in freedom of choice,,which all persons should have,,the world over. Not infringing on the rights of others. Some choices may be contrary to Bible teachings, and many are in society,,but again,,that is the free will that God ingrained in humans. We must make our choices in life...So, again,,our stand on these things are sometimes viewed as extreme.(Acts 5:29)

No one is perfect,,and we don't claim to be,,by all means,,we all make mistakes. (to be "human is to err"),wrong choices,,sometimes we learn better from our mistakes,,but continuing to try and apply what we learn from the Bible is an ongoing quest.

I hope I have answered your question understandablely,,If any further questions on this or other thoughts please feel free to email me.

So, if the above is why we are viewed as extremist by some,we are not offended in the least.:-)...Take care,,,Patsy

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), October 16, 2001.

This is just a thought for all the on'e that don't agree with Jehovah's Witnesses. When was the last time you heard about in a foreign country, J.W.'s are waging war against another religion, with suicide bombings/crime/violence and all that? When do you read in the newspaper or see on TV a J.W.' as a murderer or thief? When was the last time you've seen reports of fighs between Jehovah's Witnesses? They are obviously doing something right. They are always dressed neat in appearance, act in a responsible manner, kind and courteous. They obviously are doing something right. If you have any conflicts with something they do or say, go to the hall, don't be affraid to talk with them. They will discuss and explain their resoning without accusations or getting mad. They would be happy to discuss their beliefs with you. They really are a nice bunch of people.

-- HEMI HUNTER (imthere4yababe@yahoo.com), January 17, 2002.

Hi Hemi,,,thank you for your comments,Have you been to the Hall yourself?*****I was visiting this site and saw you there,,,I hope you are enjoying some of your winter,,,wherever you live,,,maybe Florida? haha,,sunny Florida!!!We are having winter still here in W Montana,,,full blast!!,,,has been snowing for 3 days now in my area,,,lots of beautiful snow and very cold,,,It may seem strange to some folks ,,but I love it,,write anytime,,,,Take care and have a great day,,Patsy

-- Patsy, MT (cozyhollow-gal@care2.com), March 07, 2002.

Vicki, Religious posts and political posts are long because people enjoy discussing what they believe. I also find it interesting. Patsy, I would love to discuss my faith, but how about e-mailing me. I'm finding it hard to weed through all the accusations to find the doctrine. littleBit@compworldnet.com

Little bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@farm.com), March 07, 2002.

Pardon me, I didn't realize this thread is a year old. Could we please start NEW threads please. This gets very confusing.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@farm.com), March 07, 2002.