Free Speech no longer an issue in europe!greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread
I received this today. I am sending it along in tact with comments attached. Can anyone here say TYRANNY?
Little Bit Farm
THIS HAPPENED IN COUNTRIES AFTER GUNS WERE TAKEN AND INTERNATIONAL COURTS ARE GIVEN JURISDICTION!! FREE SPEECH? NOT THERE! http://civilliberty.about.com/newsissues/civilliberty/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et%3Fac=004500464513069%26rtmo=r99SQh3X%26atmo=rrrrrrrq%26pg=/et/01/3/7/weuc07.html
Wednesday 7 March 2001
Euro-court outlaws criticism of EU By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels
THE European Court of Justice ruled yesterday that the European Union can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading figures, sweeping aside English Common Law and 50 years of European precedents on civil liberties. The EU's top court found that the European Commission was entitled to sack Bernard Connolly, a British economist dismissed in 1995 for writing a critique of European monetary integration entitled The Rotten Heart of Europe.
The ruling stated that the commission could restrict dissent in order to "protect the rights of others" and punish individuals who "damaged the institution's image and reputation". The case has wider implications for free speech that could extend to EU citizens who do not work for the Brussels bureaucracy.
The court called the Connolly book "aggressive, derogatory and insulting", taking particular umbrage at the author's suggestion that Economic and Monetary Union was a threat to democracy, freedom and "ultimately peace".
However, it dropped an argument put forward three months ago by the advocate-general, Damaso Ruiz-Jarabo Colomer, which implied that Mr Connolly's criticism of the EU was akin to extreme blasphemy, and therefore not protected speech.
Mr Connolly, who has been told to pay the European Commission's legal costs, said the proceedings did not amount to a fair hearing. He said: "We're back to the Star Chamber and Acts of Attainder: the rights of defendants are not respected or guaranteed in any way; the offence of seditious libel has been resurrected."
Mr Colomer wrote in his opinion last November that a landmark British case on free speech had "no foundation or relevance" in European law, suggesting that the European Court was unwilling to give much consideration to British legal tradition.
Mr Connolly now intends to take his case to Europe's other court, the non-EU European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
-- Little bit Farm (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 08, 2001
More power to Connolly!!!! Well, since we no longer have a right here in Idaho to jury nullification, voting on whether a town can annex our land, and several other things, the Second Amendment (and several others) are constantly under attack Nationally, and we can't even seem to control the behavior of our Country's children, I would suggest that that time is coming here as well.....
If people don't wake up and start DOING something about all this - Hitler may as well have won that D***** war. Is THIS what our brave soldiers (and others...) have been fighting for????????????
-- Sue Diederich (email@example.com), March 08, 2001.
Little Bit, it will happen here also, if we don't start making changes now. Have you read "The Coming American Dictatorship" by John Silveira in Backwoods Home Magazine? It is an ongoing article that started back in the November issue dealing with the slow but steady erosion of our rights under the Constitution, rights we as voters are seemingly giving up willingly! Every voting American should read these articles! We are already on the road to becoming a fascist country and seemimgly nobody cares or wants to do anything about it! All of those who voted for more of the "same old, same old" are a huge part of the problem, they are as content as cows being led to slaughter with their choice of candidates for elected officials, when will we wake up and "see" what we are allowing to happen to our country and the Constitution? For those that DO care, I urge you to go to the Libertarian parties website, www.lp.org and learn what YOU can do to stop this slide into tyranny!!!
-- Annie Miller in SE OH (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 08, 2001.
The thing that gets me is that people are so blind to Tyranny. How do they think WWII happened anyway? The very first thing that happens when tyranny begins is that it becomes illegal to do anything but tow the party line. This almost always goes hand in hand with gun control. WWII was no exception. Who do you suppose is waiting out there to suggest that anyone who disagrees with the EU be interned into a concentration camp? It's happened before, and in Europe no less. Man I hope this is cold water in the face of America, but I doubt it.
Little Bit Farm
-- Little bit Farm (email@example.com), March 08, 2001.
I was under the possibly mistaken impression that jury nullification was a federal right, not a state one. Whassup with that?
-- Soni (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 08, 2001.
"...it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide NEW guards for their future's security." (the D. of I.)
-- The Action Dude (email@example.com), March 08, 2001.
The Declaration does go on to plead with citizens to NOT disrupt the fabric of our republic for the sake of: “LIGHT AND TRANSIENT CAUSES”. War is still a terrible thing, as General Lee remarked at Fredericksburg. Because the U.S. caters continually to the decisions of the United Nations, I predict only more and more indifference in America. The federal government is ALREADY too large, and top heavy. I just, today, sent a check to my favorite right wing special interest group, but sometimes it still seems like the best we can do is to slow down the socialist ideas that are eroding our country. That's okay, though. Slowing down a train on a collision course, is better than just pulling our hair out and screaming in confusion. Could I encourage people here about our leaders? If George W. has done anything right, please take a minute to write and tell him so. He needs encouragement in that dirty job, don't you think?
-- The Action Dude (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 08, 2001.
If you're concerned about freedom of speech in America,ya ought to read this!
-- nobrabbit (email@example.com), March 08, 2001.
More and more and more and more and more, it seems we hear of government(s) doing stuff and we say, "Hey, they can't do that. We've all been raised in a world in which we had certain freedoms that we thought were just ours, just like breathing. Suddenly, these freedoms are being just jerked out from under us. Well, it's not suddenly. "They" have been doing it little by little for a long, long time. You hear people saying something like, "Yeah, but they're doing it a lot more now. Well, people have always (it seems) said "they're doing it a lot more now." What can we do?? Please don't say, "write your Congressman." That's been the standard answer for everything, forever and we're still loosing our few freedoms. I am now, and will always be a Christian but it seems like when you tune in a "Christian" TV station, they have the answer and will send it to you for $29.99 (plus shipping and handling). Seems the bottom line for everything is money. I'm just going to keep praying. (Please don't let this start a religious argument or anything like that. Nothing is accomplished when that happens). or anything.) I really, really, don't want to do that.
-- eagle (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 08, 2001.
Soni,Perhaps I misunderstood your question/comment.Jury nullification is not a federal right or a states right but rather the right of an INDIVIUAL....that is the defendant and the jury of his peers.If you as a jurist think that a law is stupid or being unfairly enforced you can vote to aquit regardless of the evidentiary guilt of the defendant.You can in effect pass judgement on the law itself.Judges HATE that and lie to Juries all time the regarding their duty.If you were trying to say that jury nullification only applys to federal cases and not state cases..........Think back on how our battered constitution is applied.No state can enact a law that is contradictory to the constitution. As far as the original post goes....... Ain't Socialism grand? greg
-- greg (email@example.com), March 09, 2001.
I ask, how many here voted anything other than R and D the last election? Think about that now and reflect how a change of vote, whether Libertarian, Natural Law, whatever, would have been at least a step in the right direction and not a huge lockstep backward!
-- Annie Miller in SE OH (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 09, 2001.
You're right norabbit, this is scary. It's no more than I expect from a secret service that has been out of hand for quite awhile. The secret service, by the way is one of those organizations in Washington which doesn't change when a new president comes into office. In fact many presidents and first ladies have been extremely uncomfortable with being under their protection. Hillary Clinton, was not fond of them at all. Fear in this country has created many assaults on free speech. This is a world where chicken fingers suddenly become deadly weapons. This is a world where teens, who are known for saying all kinds of crazy things, are suddenly under scrutiny, because, they might turn their little joke into reality. This is a world where the Secret Service just isn't sure anymore what constitutes a threat, and it's no wonder. After having presidents under their care be targets for madmen, with the Secret Service being held responsible, it tends to make people touchy. It isn't any excuse. Free speech should be free speech. Free Press should be free press, but there is a fine line to walk when dealing with a society gone nuts. The thing is, this society has made it's own bed. We voted for people who removed the very principles that protected our speech. We let go of the moral values that kept our people from taking their pain out upon others.We've said anything goes and now it does, to the detriment of everyone. We refuse to take responsibility for the making of a better world. We whine and complain, and expect the government or others to make our lives better rather than getting out and making them better ourselves.
Personally I think that asking a Holy Savior to smite someone for our own ends is highly disrespectful and heretical. Personally I feel that the concience that would produce such a thing is definitely frightening. Personally I find the article repugnant and downright discriminatory, BUT I fully support his right to free press and free speech, as much as it may turn my stomach.
Little Bit Farm
-- Little bit Farm (email@example.com), March 09, 2001.