I am conducting a vote to determine whether or not Mahjong and Poker style games of low skil be archived (i.e. eliminated from MARP). There would be an impact to LB scoring so understand that any current and future INPs submitted for these games would receive a score of zero, so your LB score total will be reduced accordingly.

This idea was originally proposed by Q.T. Quazar and he makes the following points:

1) Are these games worthy of watching/learning? Is there value in having them as a part of points competition? If so, what do they test - reflexes, skill, planning, etc.?

2) Are these really arcade games, in anything beyond the literal sense? Some versions of pachinko could be considered arcade games, but require far more luck than skill...

3) Are these games that will attain, at a point, higher scores only due to luck, and not due to a player's skill?

Thanks for your time and please vote as follows: A) Let's archive these types of games B) Let's keep everything as is

-- Pat (laffaye@mail.com), February 20, 2001

Answers

Thank-you Pat. I vote a.

-- Q.T.Quazar (qan@home.com), February 20, 2001.

I'll vote A.

Cheers, Brian

-- Brian McLean (bmclean84@hotmail.com), February 20, 2001.

B - I've mentioned my reasons.

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), February 20, 2001.

I think that they aren't worthy and are subject to elimination!.

-- Zip (hughes@kos.net), February 21, 2001.

I'll vote B)

Mahjong and Poker still has some amount of skill involved. They are in MAME, and so long as they are, they should be supported here.

-- Barry Rodewald (bsr@hnpl.net), February 21, 2001.

So far, archived games have been games that maxed out too easily.

I don't think the points made are valid either. By the same token, ratings for chess would not be "worthy". Arcade games are whatever designers/manufactures/whoever decided to put in the arcades, regardless of what one person, or a lot of persons though about them. A lot of games in MAME require mostly luck at some point (for instance, because they get too ridiculously hard).

I think that on a vote like this, a lot more games should be included. Trivial Pursuit, Name That Tune, and other quiz games, for instance.

A lot of people might enjoy playing poker and mahjong games in an arcade. Or maybe even just a few people. I do not think that is a valid reason (nor any of the other reasons mentioned) to have them removed.

My vote: B.

Cheers, Ben Jos.

-- Ben Jos Walbeehm (walbeehm@walbeehm.com), February 21, 2001.

I would hate to think that fruit machines will be the next thing to get added back to Mame again. I can't see why Nicola thinks Mahjongg games and Video Poker are that different to fruit machines.

I personally don't give a toss about the L/B anymore these days.... I plays the games I like and couldn't give a stuff where my position is on the L/B!!!

My vote: B - let those that do worry about their L/B ranking fight it out to get points from these games if they want to waste their time playing crap games..... I'll be enjoying myself on games that are fun (or are in tourneys).

BeeJay.

-- BeeJay (mamester@i4free.co.nz), February 21, 2001.

I'll go for B.

-- TJT (tiihoto@hotmail.com), February 21, 2001.

I vote B

-- Stig remnes (sremnes@hotmail.com), February 21, 2001.

My vote is B

-- Vero (a.veronique@free.fr), February 21, 2001.

I'll vote for BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

Lagavulin

-- Lagavulin (darre@noos.fr), February 21, 2001.

c

no...b

-- david oliver (davedude1414@yahoo.com), February 21, 2001.

I vote for 'A'

GG

-- Game Guru (gameguru@cableinet.co.uk), February 21, 2001.

B (I enough said why before)

-- Phil (plamat@club-internet.fr), February 21, 2001.

I vote "B"

-- Queenmary (mdelprat@club-internet.fr), February 21, 2001.

I vote B.

That may not be the way I vote in the event this comes up again as a more general debate of what should or should not qualify as a test of video game skill. But that isn't what was asked this time. What was asked this time is "Is 2 player Mah Jongg less worthy of MARP leaderboard points than Trivial Pursuit, Top Players Golf, or Attaxx?"

-- Aquatarkus (aquatarkus@digicron.com), February 22, 2001.

Top Player's Golf ? This game has nothing to do here ... Where is luck part in that game ? 100% skill, 0% luck ... Like real golf.

-- Lagavulin (darre@noos.fr), February 22, 2001.

don't change anything!! I love all arcade games. I'll vote B

-- Jokie (jokie@toudy.com), February 22, 2001.

I vote for B

-- QRS (qrs@telia.com), February 22, 2001.

In the world of Arcade games there is no such thing as luck. No one "maxes out" a game by just playing and "getting lucky." You have to know the game, and the strategies, in order to excel. Even in card games - where the luck of the draw is a major factor - you have to know enough to learn how to play with the hand you're dealt (no pun intended).

Even in those games where simply knowing exact patterns (pacman, dig dug, etc.) will yield maximum scores, the player still has to get out there and prove they can run the gauntlet, if you will.

Vote: B

-- Tim Balderramos (pacmantab@hotmail.com), February 23, 2001.

Count another vote for B. "A game by any other genre would still be just as sweet" (bad paraphrase of Shakespeare, sorry). Or maybe "A game is a game is a game is a game." Like others have put much better than I, any game with any kind of skill is worth points.

Sincerely,

J.D. Lowe

-- J.D. Lowe (jedidrunkenllama@hotmail.com), February 23, 2001.

i vote B even tho i play none of those games i think there should be a wider variety of games

-- r henry (ryan_henry@bigpond.com), February 23, 2001.

B is my answer.

You can say that, but these games are in MAME and many of them require skill. Also, you can say the same about Button Bashing sports sims that they don't need to be learnt - but they are still allowed aren't they?

-- Oliver Rigby (halo@evil.co.uk), February 26, 2001.

I vote for B.

-- arjen gnodde (Arjen@ukonline.co.uk), February 27, 2001.

I accidently pressed tab and return in the last post. I voted for b.

Arjen...

-- arjen gnodde (Arjen@ukonline.co.uk), February 27, 2001.

KEEP 'em in!!!

- XTC

-- XTC (vsginc@aol.com), February 27, 2001.

It took me a while to figure out these games - I'm sure that replays will assist people in learning how to play the games. I vote B.

-- Jazz (jhjazzman@hotmail.com), February 28, 2001.

They are games of skill. Thinking and planning, just not of reflexes or hand/eye coordination. MHO, I vote that they stay (B).

-- Mike Jeung (dailun@usa.net), February 28, 2001.

NO!...Just minimal Amusment....but then again entertainment "IS" entertaiment!

-- Bruce J Mendez (mstkjin@hotmail.com), October 01, 2002.

Speakin of luck

Shamsheer

watch out for redlof

-- imme (¿¿¿??@greenspun.com), January 21, 2003.

Meanwhile Back in the Desert Island

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-- imme (imme@greenspun.com), April 15, 2003.