Got a very very poor familly who never seem to get enough firewood cut so every year about this time I notice my wood pile is losing more sticks than I'm using. Single mom with 4 kids. Welfare people who seem to lose no matter what they do. This petty theft goes on every year and I just turn my head because I can't stand the thought of the kids being cold. My neighbor says to put a stop to it because he thinks I just support people not taking care of themselves. The bit thats taken seems like a little thing and I don't need it but I see my neighbor's point. How would others handle it?.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), February 05, 2001

Answers

I think you're doing just fine Kirk! Two thumbs up and God Bless!

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), February 05, 2001.

Kirk! I've known poor people like your neighbors too. I'm not bragging but several people [including church family] went together and bought a bunch of firewood, food and clothes and had all of't delivered to'm.---Anonimously! You have a good heart--ignore your nieghbors advice. hoot. Matt.24:44

-- hoot (hoot@pcinetwork.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk,

You have compassion for your fellow man. The world needs more people like you. May God bless you. - Kathy

-- Kathy (jubilant@ncweb.com), February 06, 2001.

I have a pretty strong opinion about situations like this and since you asked, I'll share it with you, but bear in mind I can't begin to know your neighbor's circumstances beyond what you just stated- if I'm way off base here you'll have to forgive me. First off, do they NEED the wood for their heat? If so, I think you are right to let them have it, but they should not have to steal to get it. Why not step up to the plate and help them out? Try taking them a load of wood as a gift. If the kids are too little to split wood let them help with the totin' and haulin'. If they are big enough to do the work, then work with them, sharing your tools if they haven't any of their own. If you aren't comfortable giving or think they would not accept the wood as a gift you could offer it in exchange for letting the kids help you with your chores. A single mother on welfare with 4 kids and no man around sounds like a pretty grim scenario for everyone involved. I believe that sometimes what some people need, beyond welfare, is simply for someone to reach out and help them to learn to help themselves. You'd be amazed at the difference you could make in someone's life simply by showing that you care, and a load of wood could be a start in that direction with your neighbors.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk you are a very kind man. I don't believe in stealing, but this appears to be a greater issue. You seem to not be bothered with the amount of wood, but perhaps the children could help you haul and stack your harvest in exchange for the much needed heating source.

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), February 06, 2001.

Elizabeth and Shau Marie: I'm dealing with some strange people hear! I've tryed to make friends with no luck. The kids won't even look at me and mom runs in the house when someone come up!! You knock on the door and no one will answer. God knows what goes on in there!!! I've seen the teen cut wood but its green and never lasts. I've seen a young girl (early teens) pregnant 2 times but don't know what happened to the babies!! Spooky huh? I've thought about just dumping wood and leaving but don't want to invade their space. Other than a little wood no problems. Life should come with a manual!!!!....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, I had the same problem a few years ago I contacted the welfare department and they contacted the couty highway workers and brough a dump truck of firewood from were they had be cutting dead tress away from the powerlines the dump truck lasted them the rest of the winter. I was in the same boat my husband and I would just leave every Sunday after church for a Sunday drive so they could get firewood. Your neighbors sounds like a harsh person and that he has never seen hard times. Good luck and God Bless.

-- tracy emily in TN (emilyfarms@tsixroads.com), February 06, 2001.

I agree with all who say give the wood up front. It will remove the need for them to steal and in turn that makes them feel a little better about themselves...of course the best case would be if you could get them to pitch in and help you; but if not, just dump the wood in their yard and try to do it anonymously...just to spare the kids embarassment...sounds like the mother may have some "issues" that will probably never get resolved...maybe the kids can be salvaged. You've got a good heart, Kirk.

-- JimR (jroberts1@cas.org), February 06, 2001.

Boy that's a hard one.How about a letter? explaining that though you do not mind the wood disappearing you would like help in the garden or what ever chore you can think of. Maybe offer to take the older kids out to cut firewood in return for them helping to stack yours?

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), February 06, 2001.

kinda have the same thing here.took 2 years before anyone would talk to me, and now the send one of the kids over to borrow, EVERYTHING. Havent had missing firewood,, too much woods around anyways. I had to break the ice by hireing one of the boys , to clean up the dead branches out back,,, paid 5 bucks,, and a facecord of wood. I know it made him feel good about earning it. See if you can hire on of the kids to do some splitting or stacking,, worth a shot.

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, you do have a good heart, but sometimes a good heart isn't "all" that's needed. Sounds like some painful stuff going on in that family. Having them work to repay the wood would be a gift, I think, to them. Your goodness and their effort could teach the young ones a world of good. Are the kids in school? Maybe you can gradually win their trust and show them the world doesn't have to be as bad as it is for them. BTW, life does come with a manual, the Bible.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, keep on choppin'. What goes around, comes around. Remember Psalm 41, verses 1,2,3, and pile it a little closer to their house.

-- Action Dude (theactiondude@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

I would not want to see the kids cold either , but it also sounds like these kids need some help .Is teaching them to steal correct ? A tannage girl pregnant 2 x .Put a call into the school system and get a feel on things .There are plenty of programs out there to provide them with help for heat .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), February 06, 2001.

If I were you and I'm not, I'd contact social services and tell them what you know. Those teenage pregnancies sound scarey. Where do the babies go? I wonder if the mother isn't mentally disadvantaged and hasn't the ability to properly raise the children. Maybe the family needs someone to intervene. As for the wood, you are a very sweet man to worry about children being cold. That may be the least of the troubles in that home.

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

Hi Kirk, read this before I did my chores and was haunted by it all the way through them. I guess I would look at this as an opportunity to make a difference in someones life. I know people suggest getting the authorities involved, but I am afraid that should have happened many years ago. This women was probably one that fell through the very large cracks that were created in the system over 20 years ago. Children old enough to remember will not benefit from legal intervention at this time. All sorts of statistics point to the fact that the intervention needs to come very early. If there are boys there they more than likely have no idea of what a man should be like and you could provide that for them in a very quiet way. I would decide what amount of wood that they needed each week and deliver it, not anonymously, just quietly deliver it. Get a feel for other possible needs, take a little bag of candy. Never pushy, just a very quiet presence and see what happens. Just my two cents worth.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, What an opportunity! You have the opportunity to make a big difference in these peoples lives. If you can't make contact with the mother, go through the kids. A way to the mothers heart is normally through her kids. And, yes, they may start trying to borrow everything but if they do they probably don't know any better. I work some with inner-city kids and they know how to try to take you. But, up front you learn how to use wisdom, on what to say "no" to and what to say "yes" to. Teach them the skills that you have learned through a simple way of life. God didn't say life was going to be easy He said that we were to go out as "lambs among wolves". I wouldn't contact the authorities unless you find abuse in the home. They are the ones that create a lot of these problems. More people are in slavery today because of goverment programs than they were in the 1800's. May you be blessed in your efforts. Gary

-- Gary in AL (gmattox@integrity.com), February 06, 2001.

God Bless you Kirk! You have such a kind heart. Keep us posted on them ok?!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, Teaching kids that stealing is ok is the wrong thing to be teaching. If the mother is sending the kids over then things have gotten out of hand. On the other hand Being kind hearted is a good think to teach kids and sometimes adults. Maybe just taking over a load of firewood would be the neighborly thing to do. A yearly christmas gift if you so choose. I would be worried about people climbing over my wood pile and hurting themself.

-- Gary (gws@redbird.net), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, I think your heart is in the right place, but I too, wonder about the message being sent to the kids. Are any or all of them old enough to perhaps help you fell, chop, stack? Tell them you'd be happy to share, but that they have to take a part in the work. Just a thought.

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

Perhaps you could drop them a note, either in the mail or slip it under their door, stating that you wouldn't mind them taking a bit of wood if they "needed" it as you don't use it all. You might add that if any of the kids were interested you could use a hand here and there and would either pay them a bit or give them something needed or wanted, ie: wood or??? Perhaps the father of these children was abusive or who knows what. The authorities can sometimes make things worse sometimes so I don't know if it would be wise to speak with them unless you "know" of something going on there. Some folks are just naturally introverted/shy/fearful when it comes to others. I personally have been tagged as "unfriendly" by some because I choose more or less to keep to myself. But once the ice is cracked they usually change their opinion. I'm just not outgoing, but definitely not unfriendly per se. Let God guide you in this. These folks obviously have some problems/fears and so forth. Ask around, perhaps someone knows the situation and could enlighten you a bit.

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), February 06, 2001.

If I was in your place and if I had the wood to spare without it being a hardship on me, I would let them have it. Maybe talk to them about the example for the kids thing. If I wanted to stop it, I would just put some cedar in the pile where they would get it.

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), February 06, 2001.

I see you have had quit a few responces already but hopefully you won't mind one more. It's too bad the family hadto steal the wood . Desperate times calls for desperate measures. Is it the kids or the mom? Do you ever see the foot prints? I wonder if the kids are doing it to stay warm or is the adult in the hme sending them out forit? If you can get extra wood this spring or whenever you usually get your wood, I would say to get some for them but have it delivered to your house. THen ask for the kids to help you stack and haul your wood . Then when your done with yours tell them the rest is theirs. For their pay. It is better to teach them to work for the wood then to just let them steal it all. Hope everything works out .

-- michelle (tsjheath@ainop.com), February 06, 2001.

kirk, your a good person keep up the good work. you could quietly check with a teacher in the town and see if the kids go to school and if the teacher knows anything they could share. as a teacher i sometimes know things that i can't share but almost always know things that are common knowledge and i can share them. as for writing a letter a good idea but maybe they don't read or at least not well enough to get your point. it is so sad that people have to steal to keep warm. since you have not had other problems i would say this is a matter of necessity. if you could just get through to one of the children maybe the whole thing would open up and you could with some help of others really make a difference. sometimes all it takes is just a small crack in that outside wall, that people put up, and then everything you do turns to gold.

praise the lord they live next to you and not someone with a cold heart, of course you know they live there not by chanch ,but by the plan of of our father the lowly carpenter who saved the world.

blessings, sally

-- sally stanton (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, I used to belong to a family like that. Just the fact that we were so secretive made everyone suspicious. I agree with JimR, if they won't talk to you because they're scared, unload the firewood in their front yard, maybe top it with a friendly note or something for the kids. Call it a late Xmas present if you want to. I think that we are all presented with opportunities to help others out, to give us a chance to do the right thing.

I remember my folks having us steal food from a neighbor's vacation cabin. I hated doing it, and with every bite I took I felt guilty, but I was even more afraid not to obey my parents. Now I wonder why they made us do it? That neighbor befriended us, in time we began to trust him, and he became one of our dearest friends. When times got better we replaced all the food we had taken, writing on the cans things like thank you, bless you, etc.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), February 06, 2001.

It sounds like there may be an abusive male in that family somewhere...that may be what makes the woman afraid to talk to anybody....he may not be in the house but he may be "controlling" from somewhere else...

also be careful before you turn anybody into the state or county authroities....I don't trust them in a lot of cases to actually do what is right...

maybe you could do a little more investigating on your own...through a church or neighborhood...not a governmental agency....

-- Suzy in'Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

Too be honest I wouldn't just let them have the wood. I don't care how needy a person is, I'm not going to just let them steal from me. You are just helping perpetuate the myth that theft is acceptable.

Now, don't get me wrong, I sure wouldn't want to see my neighbors starve or freeze. There is almost ALWAYS another way. Put the kids to work, and pay them generously. Or maybe you could simply get some folks together to help them out. 10 people spending 2 hours together working on the firewood would get more than you spending 20 hours working on it yourself (but less thasn 20 hours of stealing).

This reminds me of a similiar situation we had once. During opening day of deer season my father and I found our rather poor neighbor poaching in our favorite hunting spot. We sent him packing (he wasn't even dressed for the weather much less for safety-accident waiting to happen). If he had gotten caught there would've been no way he could afford the consequences. Anyway to make a long story short, my father manages to get a few extra tags every year (farm tags for party hunting) and he & his buddies get several deer for the neighbors. Everyone thinks that he's just a good guy for doing this, but I know he just loves to get in the extra hunting. Everybody wins so, it doesn't really matter.

-- Chris Stogdill (cstogdill@rmci.net), February 06, 2001.

Kirk this is obviously not a quick fix. Whatever you decide to do, i hope you can reach this family. Even so they may turn you away. You are a good man for trying. Good Luck!

-- Shau Marie (shau@centurytel.net), February 06, 2001.

First of all, yes, you are a kind man to turn a blind eye to their stealing, knowing it's not right, and then to ask our opinions of the situation instead of just taking your neighbor's advice! Bravo!! Since you did ask, here's what I'd do and why:

I would bring them a week or two's worth of wood, not necessarily anonymously ~ don't let others see you, but let them see you bring it. Maybe just backing up to their fence and throwing it over it so you're not invading their space. After a couple weeks of this, I'd make sure the boys are there and before unloading and I'd knock on the door and ask if they wouldn't mind helping unload it. If they don't answer, I'd say nicely (loud enough for them to hear but not yelling at all) something like, "Well, I was just wondering if y'all would mind helping me unload this wood." Then unload it. I'd keep doing this each week, knocking and asking, then unloading anyway. I'll bet once they figured out that I'm not giving up and going away and I DO expect them to help, they'd open up to me and come help me unload it. After a couple more weeks, I'd ask the boys as we unload that week's wood if they wouldn't like to go with me next Saturday to help cut and haul wood and if so, we could get a whole lot and they could keep half. If they couldn't, then I'd offer to bring them more if they could help with my chores or something like that. And if the mother came out and got upset over "charity" or whatever, I'd ask her if she believed in karma and the Golden Rule and tell her that this was my way of getting some good things to come back to me so "please let me do this ~ you'd be doing me a favor."

Yes, the girl being pregnant twice and then no sign of babies is kind of strange, but maybe they made the right decision both times in giving a baby they couldn't take care of very well a better life through adoption? I wonder if their secretiveness isn't out of guilt and embarrassment over stealing your wood? I wonder if you acted like they didn't have anything to be guilty about or atleast like you weren't going to look down on them, if they wouldn't open up a bit? I've known some people who are poor and they have so many people look down on them everyday that they just don't want to face another, so they keep to themselves. Maybe they do just need to be eased into opening up by doing what I mentioned over the course of a couple months, letting them get used to and comfortable with each step before moving on to the next.

I wouldn't want to teach them that stealing is okay by letting the present situation go on, but then again, if you move too fast it may scare them off and you would lose this opportunity to help teach those children valuable lessons in kindness and providing for yourself. And if you just brought them wood without expecting anything in return, that may teach them that they are rewarded for their stealing by you feeling sorry for them and bringing them wood ~ I mean, first they just take it and now they get it delivered? Yes, you have a great opportunity to make a difference in those kids' life. I agree that it's not by chance that they live next to you. Good luck!!

-- Wingnut (wingnut@moment.net), February 06, 2001.

Several years ago I had a family in my 4-H gardening project. Everytime they came over the kids would steal fruit from my trees and veggies from my garden. I felt sorry for them because mom was such a nut, took better care of her animals than the kids.

Finally, one day they were getting into the car and one of the girls, about 12, dropped the fruit she had taken right in front of her mom and I. I softly told her she didn't need to steal from friends and neighbors, she only had to ask nicely if she could have the fruit.

Politeness must have been quite a stretch for them because they never came back.

You might think about approaching them, just so they know you are aware of the theft; and then offer to help them figure out how much wood they need for the winter, suggest where to get it since they can't afford to buy, or even help them collect and cut when you get your wood, group effort. I know what some of you are saying about standing on your own two feet, and I agree wholely, but when there are children involved that approach is a little tricky since the kids always are the ones to suffer.

I have a cousin who is like that. Plenty of money for drugs, booze and cigerettes, but not enough to put a decent meal on the table. Well I'm not getting on that soap box.

I wish you luck.

-- jennifer (CA) (schwabauer@aol.com), February 06, 2001.

I'd set up a camera, catch them on film. ask them to stop and if it continued, I'd have her arrested and thrown in jail. Your kindness is a great thing, and helping her out is considerate, but turning your head to her stealing makes you an accomplice, even if it's your own wood. Saying something now will have a tremendous impact on her children and if she doesn't care enough about her own kids, then this is where your example should be aimed. Teaching them that stealing is wrong at an early age will greatly benifit these kids. Or they could grow up as thieves themselves.

Besides, you already give, since she is on welfare. All I see here is petty thieves and 4 more welfare reciepiants if allowed to continued.

-- hillbilly (internethillbilly@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, It's all been said in the above messages, but I too agree you should confront the mom but in a gentle way and offer to work out a deal if they are all willing to pitch in and help with cutting and stacking of ALL the wood. Stealing is stealing and I'm sure you don't want to condon that but if they can work for the wood then it will help to give them some work ethics, pride and character( standing behind their word to work in exchange for wood.) I get frustrated with those on welfare who seem to abuse it but there are many who really NEED it. I think that welfare should only be a short term answer though, as we see they just seem loose all sense of pride if they receive it to long. This seems to be the case with your neighbor, but in her defense they( welfare system) taught each of those who abuse it just how to do it. The Lord has blessed you by making you a compassionate man, just remember we are to hold each other accountable also. Hope you find it in your heart to do what is needed. Blessings, Kelle

-- Kelle (kvent1729@aol.com), February 06, 2001.

Now Suzy in Bama, I usually like stuff you post but why in heck do you automatically assume that because there's a woman stealing and on welfare, that automatically means there's "an abusive male" in the family. I assure you that there are some women that are just no good, and I'm not pointing fingers at the woman in the original post, without her having a man to blame it on. That just burns me up. Anytime some woman does something wrong some beanbrain like you says there must an "abusive male" behind it all. Horse crap!

-- Joe (jcole@apha.com), February 06, 2001.

Hi Kirk, what a sweetie you are! I know that people around here, that are poor, are ususally very proud too. The way I see it, they're stealing the wood out of absolute necessity, but are to proud to admit they need it. IF, you really don't mind giving them the wood, is there anyway that you could talk to them and tell them you have extra wood that you wanted to get rid of? Too old, too green or some excuse? The boys could come over and get enough with your supervision. That way they wouldn't feel like such a charity case, because they'll think they're also doing you a favor.

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), February 06, 2001.

Do you have any trees that need cup up or hauled away...or know of anyone else who does? Maybe you could holler over the fence (or leave a note, etc.) saying "So and so has some wood to clean up, and I would sure like to have some help with it, and we can split the wood 50-50!" They can feel like they are helping themselves and helping you! Keep us posted!

-- Leann Banta (thelionandlamb@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk, I wonder how you would have handled this if this were a single male on welfare?

-- hillbilly (internethillbilly@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

I read this posting this morning and decided to think about it a while before posting a response. I agree with others that there is something not quite right. I have no clue what it is though...some folks are just odd. I'd feel the same way you do....don't want to see anyone cold. When I was little from time to time we would find a cow that had been shot and some of the meat taken. Papa never got too upset about it when they took the meat..figured it was someone that was hungry. He did get upset when people shot his cows just for the meanness of it and left the meat to rot. I agree that letting the kids continue to steal the wood isn't the best situation. Teaches them to steal and that just has to get worse as they get older. You've gotten some good suggestions so far but I'd like to offer a word of caution...no good deed goes unpunished. I know this is very pesimistic but I've gotten burned a number of times trying to help other folks. I think the idea of leaving a note saying that you have some wood that you'd like cleaned up and wonder if the kids would mind helping you out by hauling it off is a good idea. You could kind of make a jumbled pile of cut wood so they would think they are cleaning up a mess for you. I'd see how that goes before taking any more steps. I agree with several of the others that this situation really doesn't need to be taken to the authorities. However if you start having tools or such go missing then you would have no choice but to report it. We never reported people that stole fruit out of our orchard but we reported them real quick when they broke into the barn and stole saddles. This isn't an easy situation and I hope you are able to resolve it soon. God bless you.

-- Amanda in Mo (aseley@townsqr.com), February 06, 2001.

You get what you put up with.

If the children are not held responsible then it would be foolish to think that they will be responsible citizens. They will not.

I noted that teen pregnancy was also mentioned, and the soultion was most likely (read 99%) ABORTION...Murder the babies, with your tax dollars at work.

It is quite likely that the mother is mentally defective, and not resistant to breeding. I doubt that she knows who all the fathers of her children are (poor helpless thing).

The children can all expect to make a stop or two in prison, sort of a right of passage; prior to about age twenty. We Americans do have more people in prisons because of what we collectivly choose to put up with. We are to blame when we ignore problems.

It is unfortunate that a load of sawmill cut off wood, would probably be unacceptable because the pieces would be too small, full of sawdust; and probably have some green wood in it. It is a lot better to just steal some wood (most likely tie best on the pile) than to accept a little help.

Perhaps one of the poor unfortunate kids, that nobody is willing to hold accountable might grow up to be president. Then we could stand around and say things like he had a poor childhood', or SEX is really not sex. Or IS really in not is. Or dishonesty is O.K. just so nobody complains too loudly.

We get what we put up with, from stealing sticks to murder. No question about it. It is our problem, not thiers.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

There's always more wood.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 06, 2001.

Kirk,

Would it be possible to get a woman in on your side? It might simply be that the family is "gun-shy" of a strange man. And the mom might be less apt to run and hide if she saw a woman, IF there is a problem somewhere with abuse. (Can't say either way, so I'll assume for now that it's a distinct possibility)

As far as the wood goes, if it's at all possible to get *some* sort of payment, that'd be ideal~~if not, at least the children aren't cold! I think I'd be dropping off "care-packages" occasionally, too...but that's just me, I'm a sucker for hard cases!

If you KNOW that children's services or welfare would do more good than damage, I'd alert them. There are some social workers out there who really are aiming for the good of the family~~but they are few and far between, so unless you're sure you've got one of those on your side, don't go that route. (goodness I'm sounding bossy!)

Just my $.02 worth...wish I could help you!

Ali in ID

-- Ali (philipandaleta@juno.com), February 06, 2001.

Holy Cow!!!! I'm blown away by the response! I wish I could have a dialog with each person but I didn't expect this volume. please know that I really appreciate all the posts. today I checked the footprints and it was the young boy who is doing the taking. Maybe 10 or so. Probably being put up to it. I hope to re-post some positive results in the near future. Thank you.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), February 06, 2001.

Yes, please let us know what happens!

I hate to sound pessimistic, too, but the advice of getting a woman to help you sounds good. If you can't, I would NOT let yourself be in a position of being alone with either the woman or her daughter. Not going inside the house would be a good practice (It's easy to make excuses about you being in a hurry or "dirty" and not wanting to track up their house). I'm not saying anything would happen, but it's good to be on the safe side just in case.

And the very best of luck to you!

-- Wingnut (wingnut@moment.net), February 07, 2001.

Kirk, Wow, a lot of different responses to you post. I remember when my ex left me in Tennessee, with no job no money no car and 2 little boys. I picked up a lot of deadfall and luckily had a very little chain saw that I could cut small trees down for heat but it was tough. I feel so sorry for this lady and her children. Do they have enough food and clothing? It is so sad and if she is "backwards" it only makes it worse. Is there a kindly older lady around who could drop by and visit with her? Please let us know how it turns out. I believe in Karma and doing good for another soul has to be good Karma.

-- karen (kansasgoats@iwon.com), February 07, 2001.

Wingnut and Karen: One thing I think I'll try is making friends with the young boy. Perhaps he is aproachable if I keep trying. also I'll check all the closest people around me to see if they know anything about them. Next year if everything I do fails I think I'll dump some wood and leave a note saying its only my extra. As for food and clothes I have not a clue. No way to know unless they talk to someone. These mountains are just full of people who fall thru the cracks!! Some are very sad cases that break your heart. I think they make society very nervious because of how hopeless they make us all feel. Thanks for your thoughts.....Kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), February 07, 2001.

I had nowhere near enough time to read all these posts, so I may be redundant. My idea is to get those 4 kids, (and maybe the Mom, or is it the Dad) to help you in the putting by of the firewood next year. Then you share! GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), February 08, 2001.

Sounds like a great idea, Kirk!! Do you plant a garden? Maybe you could get your new little friend to help you with it and share the produce ~ maybe even help you clean up around your fruit trees if you have any, pruning, mowing, mulching, etc. That would take care of the food question and teach the boy an incredible tool for life.

Again, good luck!

-- Wingnut (wingnut@moment.net), February 08, 2001.

I too have read all the answers posted. My very first thought was that it may not be a good idea to write a note to these people as there is a very real possiblity that they are illiterate..Most likely can read numbers but not words. I work very hard for my firewood and I wouldn't appreciate it being stolen one bit. I realize those children need to be warm and I realize they are made do what their parent(s) tell them. I think I would find some willing people to help cut some wood for these people and I would also check with Social Services..

-- Lynn(MO) (mscratch@semo.net), February 09, 2001.

My hat's off to you for your generous spirit Kirk! I am, by nature, more suspicious of others and less likely to be so generous without checking out the situation first. If I knew that the family were genuinely in need, I would help them out. But since you asked how others would handle it, here's my .02 cents' worth. I'd ask around, talk to other neighbours, see what they know about the family. As others have suggested, talk to the teacher. I have seen situations where people have tried to help out families in similar circumstances, only to have the recipients glom onto them, cause them all kinds of grief, and even victimize the helpers by committing worse crimes upon them than mere petty theivery.

I agree with those who say don't encourage the thievery, perhaps those kids just need a better role model to set a better example. I might put a big note on the firewood to the effect that stealing is not right, but if anyone wants or needs more firewood, all they have to do is ask. Sometimes the shame of living under such circumstances makes the kids feel it is better to steal something annonymously, rather than face rejection and judgemental attitudes by asking. Not knowing the situation, former posters may have hit on it that the family has suffered from terrible events.

My advice would be to find all you can, and be cautious. It's that teenage pregnancy and disappearing babies bit that really has me wondering about these people. If I found out that they were a bunch of deadbeats, I'd be getting me a good watchdog or two to discorage them. They would certainly let you know in a hurry if anyone approaches your house.

However, if it turns out that they are just genuinely in need and relatively harmless, perhaps befriending the boy and helping to provide a better role model can make all the difference in that boy's life.

-- Chelsea B (rmbehr@istar.ca), February 12, 2001.

Kirk I commend you...

but some other thoughts... regardless if she is on welfare or not... shy or not.... she should have the common couresty to "ask" or "make a proposal" for that wood....

guess I'm a bit suprised that such a person would be burning wood...assuming she is on gov't help ... as they have programs to help with heating...

secondly... if the economy continues to down turn... and more and more people get in desparite situations... do we continue to allow folks to "steal" from us????

I'm more than glad to work out "working" arrangements with folks... guess I have helped so many out in "dire situations"... and they just wanted it to keep coming without help.... amazing... we'd you'd ask for help... they would have an excuse to move on...

-- Mary Ann (peanut@wi-net.com), February 13, 2001.

Read the posts. Agree with most. Stealing is wrong and should not be encouraged. Somehow you've got to reach them and let them know you are not a threat.

The mom may have thought you had come to her house to rant about the firewood.

Leave a note at the wood pile for the boy. Maybe he can read. Make it simple.

Also, since this family may have a history of abuse, children who have been abused generaly become notorious liars (generalization, I know). Becareful that if you befriend the boy that your time with him cannot be misconstrued as pedophilic in nature. You could be accused of something that is not true. The idea of having a woman approach the Mom has merit.

May the Lord guide you in the way you should go.

-- Heather in MD (heathergorden@hotmail.com), February 15, 2001.