I just read an article in the Jan 2001 Atlantic Monthly. The article is about the oil industry's incredible advances in exploration, among other things. One intersting facet of their recently acquired abilities is to be able to generate 3D "pictures" of what's under the earth, which although not infallible, at least give engineers a pretty good hint as to where their best chances are of finding oil and gas.

Oil companies were successful in drilling a well called "Margarita" over 10,000 feet deep, under an "overhang" of salt. Their success at Margarita gave drillers to drill another well, called "Subsalt", which penetrates to the bottom of a huge salt layer at about 20,000 feet. This salt is known ("known" to you creationists) to have been formed by eons of evaporation of saltwater in early seas, bays, inlets, etc.

This being the case, here's my question:

Since there is oil (presumably formed by decomposition of organic material) beneath this salt, almost four miles deep, did the animals/plants whose bodies decomposed into oil, get buried by almost four miles of salt during "The Flood?"

How would this be possible? Was there a whole bunch of heat causing the Flood waters to evaporate?

How deep must the floodwaters have been, and how salty, to have created salt this thick?

A curious mind must know...

Bud

Here's the question: Since

-- Uncle Bud (teacher@safety.net), January 31, 2001

Answers

Come to Cleveland, Uncle Bud...

...if you would like to see a salt dome close up. Morton Salt owns a huge salt mine under Lake Erie that extends many miles out into the lake. It is several thousand feet thick and is surrounded by limestone laid down when an ancient ocean covered the Midwest. The ancient coral reefs are exposed on several islands in the lake. On top of the limestone is several hundred feet of shale from fresh water deposition followed by the debris left over from the last Ice Age. It may not be as exciting as the Rockies, but there is a fascinating geological mix here in Northern Ohio.

And any answer that may be applied to your original question has to work for what is here as well.

(:raig

-- Craig Miller (CMiller@ssd.com), January 31, 2001.

I think Craig is correct in that the same process is at work in both cases, which is plate tectonics that produces continental uplifits. More information would be required on the exact location for an expert to say for sure what geological forces were the cause, uplift or forcing under (override).

-- Lynn Goltz (lynngoltz@aol.com), January 31, 2001.

Was this complete? Looked like you might have had something else there at the end...

Guess I'll take it as everyone is suppossed to not answer any controversial stuff and I don't think God doing something is too controversial...nudge, nudge, wink, smile.

"Since there is oil (presumably formed by decomposition of organic material) beneath this salt, almost four miles deep, did the animals/plants whose bodies decomposed into oil, get buried by almost four miles of salt during "The Flood?" "

They got buried by water and mud then the salt comes from the run off of the minerals in the ground when the waters asswaged.

"How would this be possible? Was there a whole bunch of heat causing the Flood waters to evaporate?"

How would what exactly be possible? Of course there was a lot of heat generated in the flood. The earth split open and the fountains of the deep exploded with hot water from the core of the earth.Simultaneously the canopy of water surrounding the earth (it didn't rain before the flood---ever)broke open and it all poured down probably as a cold rain. Anytime you have a lot of motion it generates heat. Also, when the waters ran off quickly there was wind to help to dry everything. Ever leave a glass of water until all the water evaporated and see the mineral deposits left behind? There you have a miniature example of salt and mineral deposits.

"How deep must the floodwaters have been, and how salty, to have created salt this thick?"

Very deep. 15 cubits above the HIGHEST mountain. A cubit is the measure of the elbow to the finger tips. At least 30 feet, I believe.

As I said before, the earth/dirt was what held the majority of the minerals with plants perhaps adding their part to the salts as well.

Hope that anwers some of your questions. You might want to read it for yourself, if so it's Genesis Chapters 6, 7, 8, 9.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 31, 2001.

Doreen, what did you say the name of your drug dealer was?:"

The highest mountain is less than six miles high. The salt is almost four miles thick. Does the water in your gas leave salt almost to the top?

The part about he faontains of the deep, and all the evaporating winds were particularly fun!

BUD!

-- Uncle Bud (teacher@safety.net), February 02, 2001.

I'd like to know if the water that covered the earth in this so- called "great flood" was saltwater or freshwater.

If it was freshwater how did the saltwater creatures survive?

If it was saltwater how did the freshwater creatures survive?

Enquiring minds want to know...

-- question everything (answers@please.thanks), February 02, 2001.

Question everything:

Obviously, God put little lenses of saltwater all around the saltwater species, so they wouldn't get sick from all that rain. How foolish of you to ask :)

Uncle Bud, you too are acting rather dense. Obviously, all the salt didn't settle out in one place. It only settled out wherever there were salt votices. God placed these vortices exactly perfectly so that Morton Salt could later set up their salt mines nearby. Early Zoning, you might say. JOJ

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@echoweb.neet), February 02, 2001.

Bud, I don't do drugs anymore. When I did, I believed what you do.")

Fresh water fish will even now ADAPT to saltier water as well as the FACT that there are saltwater fish who have adapted to fresh water. The premise is that that the water on earth previous to the flood was all freshwater. There are freshwater sharks, folks. And no, my glass doesn't leave salt to the top, but the earth heaved up and created vast run off and there you have your salt deposit.

Listen, I am tired of talking to you scoffers about this. Sorry, but it's just the way I feel right now. When one of you can make me a little carrot out of thin air, THEN I'll be impressed. Until then I will just believe that the Bible which is continually being proven as more and more true by the very sciences which attempt to disprove it's veracity, is the truth and the place to start to look for answers. You can believe what you want to. If you want to harrangue me for believing God I will just resort to telling you that He is indeed much more powerful than all of your theories and I have the PROMISE that one day every knee will bow in recognition. Science doesn't promise that.

You asked a question and I answered it. Sorry you didn't like the answer. Have a good night.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), February 02, 2001.

You asked a question and I answered it. Sorry you didn't like the answer.

Wow!

I can stop adding salt to my salt water aquarium and save LOTS of money and fuss! According to Doreen the salt water fish will adapt with no problems. This should be more than enough PROOF for all those evolutionist quacks that creationism is the TRUE answer!

Thanks, Doreen!

-- question everything (answers@please.thanks), February 02, 2001.

The following is taken from talkorigins.org's web site.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-meritt/flood.html#ark2

The exact number of kinds ("baramin") that were taken aboard the ark depends upon which creationist is performing the calculations and when these calculations were done -- LaHaye and Morris in 1976 arrive at the figure of 50,000 "kinds", an upward revision from Whitcomb and Morris's 1961 figure of 35,000 but a far cry from the figure of 1,544 due to Dr. Arthur Jones. In spite of Scriptural contradiction, there remains a valiant attempt to determine just who can be left to fend for themselves in the Flood waters and still have a fair-to-middling chance of surviving. The first obvious candidates are the marine animals but, as Robert Moore points out, there are some immediate problems:

"Although creationists seem to think that once you're wet, it's all the same, there are actually many aquatic regimes and many specialized inhabitants in each. Some fish live only in cold, clear mountain lakes; others in brackish swamps. Some depend on splashing, rocky, oxygen-rich creeks, while others, such as a freshwater dolphin, a manatee and a thirteen-foot catfish, live only in the sluggish Amazon ...

"The salinity of the oceans would have been substantially affected by the flood; Whitcomb and Morris lamely address this concern by noting that some saltwater fish can survive in freshwater and vice versa and that "some individuals of each kind would be able to survive the gradual mixing of the waters and gradual change in salinities during and after the flood." It is left to the reader's imagination to ponder how "gradual" a worldwide, mountain-covering deluge would be.

-- question everything (answers@please.thanks), February 02, 2001.

question everything. Now I feel BAD! Somebody hurt poor Doreen's feelings, and she had to crawl back in her bible to find some more "scientifical" explanations for practically everything. Nay, cancel "practically".

bud

-- uncle bud (teacher@safety.net), February 03, 2001.

Bud, I have never told anyone this here on this forum, but sir; you are a jerk.

All I said is that I am tired of talking about it with you. If you want to ridicule people, fine go right ahead. If you want to get an answer to a question and then ridicule someone for their answer, fine. You tell me how it all happened then you can feel superior and confident in your beliefs and determinations about how it happened. I am TIRED of discussing it with you. Thanks.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), February 03, 2001.

OK Guys you can pick on me for awhile instead. I believe that there were several factors that created your salinity problem. On is that there was already salt inside the earth before the flood. When the fountains of the deep broke open much of this salt was washed into the surrounding water which after all was surrounding everything. As for the fish, I believe that JOJ is on the right track. I believe they were protected through an act of God. God is after all is the Creator and spoke those animals into existence, and can do whatever pleases him. I also think that iff you take a saline solution and evaporate the water from it however much salt is in solution will preciptate out. If in fact we assume that the water over the earth was saline, and then evaporated quickly, there would naturally be a precipitate left. In fact a world wide flood makes more since that an evolutionary billions of years, because we still have to ask ourselves where did all that salt come from. To me the only thing that would explain the amount of salt we are talking about would be a worldwide flood. After all, that kind of volume makes more since being deposited in catastrophe.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), February 03, 2001.

hey guys take Sunday off,its getting ugly here.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), February 03, 2001.

doot...doot do do.....Stop in the name of love ....before you break my heart.....STOP in the name of love .....before you break my heart....think it ooooooooover! think it oooooooooooover! Diane your on~!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.netf), February 03, 2001.

What Doreen wrote:

"All I said is that I am tired of talking about it with you. If you want to ridicule people, fine go right ahead. If you want to get an answer to a question and then ridicule someone for their answer, fine. You tell me how it all happened then you can feel superior and confident in your beliefs and determinations about how it happened. I am TIRED of discussing it with you. Thanks"

My sentiments exactly, although it may or not be related whatsoever to the content of this thread at all. Doreen and I certainly disagree about a number of things. However, I DO agree with that paragraph, in terms of how I have been feeling about this forum.

I have been taking some time off from all of this, as it has begun to be about as much fun around here as watching teevee. I like the animal channel, but the noise and confusion from some of the other channels (that I don't even subscribe to!) are running interference with what I wanted to watch in the first place. And apparently my signal is creating a lot of noise for others as well. Fair is fair.

Ken kindly asked us to try to refrain from posting anything controversial until Valentines Day, and yet here it all starts up again. As much as I have enjoyed being a family member here for a while, I think it's time I moved out and went to college. I'll be home to visit occasionally on the weekends (may bring some laundry, who knows?) but the days of fun chattin' with y'all on a regular basis are over.

See you around every once in a while...perhaps. Have fun in High School. Hope you all get the same Home Room.

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.ntet), February 03, 2001.

think it oooooohoooohver!!!!! deeeeduuuumduuuuumdum think it oooohooohver.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 03, 2001.

Sheepish: I posted before I read yours- so I was just singing with Nan. I wish this would all just stop and we could just have a good time together. Look at some of the other threads instead of this one. Even john leake and I are having a decent conversation. Why do you guys want to go and do this anyway!!!!???????

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 03, 2001.

OK I SEE THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PULL OUT THE BIG GUNS......SHOW TUNES! OH WHAT A BEAUTIFUL MOOOOOOOO0ORNING....OH WHAT A BEAUTIFUL DAAAAAAAAY! I'VE GOTTA BEAUTIFUL FEEEEEEEEELING, EVERYTHING'S GOING MY WAY! really guys! Shake hands and make up! It just aint worth the fussin! If you don't behave I'm gonna get out my VIOLIN! and that ladies and gentlemen could peel paint!!!!!!!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 03, 2001.

Sheepish: I posted before I read yours - I was just singing along with Nan. I don't understand why people are going off on this thread but look at some of the other ones. Even john leake and I are having a decent conversation about greenhouses. Seems like we are letting a few spoil it for everyone and it just isn't necessary at all. Of course it is your call, I know you have taken some heavy hits lately but these name callers are small potatoes, a little like a blight, and I am sure if we don't feed into it they will get bored and move on. God loves you, and so do I. Visit often.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), February 03, 2001.

Howdy all! Did we shock you with our lovely motown sounds! I'm glad to see that you are not fighting for a few posts anyway. Sheepish, I for one would miss hearing what you have to say! Haven't heard the rest of ya'lls typing.....so I betcha you could have some great ideas too! Spring is coming! Take a time out and make a funny face in the mirror or something........come on.......Let's all be nice okie dokie?! Hang in there Sheepish!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 03, 2001.

Hey guys, be nice to Doreen too! She was brave enough to tell you what she thought(which is what I think too, by the way:~) and you should at least not beat her up for it! OKIE DOKIE!?! Now be nice you ole meanies and take a time out!!!!!!!! It is how you play the game that counts! and fellas, if you are wondering....I'm as sober as the day is long! :~)

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 03, 2001.

Hey Nan!!! I think it worked! It must have been the threat of the violin. :) Sheepish, most everyone is staying away from the controversial posts, I guess we're letting the dust settle. And as more time goes by, we'll be too busy and tired messing with the gardens to even mess with them much. They're are some great posts going on, plop your feet up and join in. You ought to check out the picture site that Patty has set up. It's great!

-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), February 03, 2001.

Yes, Bob has an unusually pretty compost pile:~) and my kids are soooooooo thankful that you are getting along and that I don't have to get out my violin! The cat says thankyou too!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 04, 2001.

It's a flaming case of cabin fever! Thanks, Diane, Nan, and Annie! Seems like all these kinds of posts end up nasty. I figure the best answer is "It is what it is. No more, no less." Enjoy and have a good Spring planning!

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), February 05, 2001.

Dorreen, darlin',

I don't mind being called a jerk, by a fool.

Bud

-- Uncle Bud (teacher@safety.net), February 05, 2001.

Doreen, I tried to e-mail you and it was returned. Read the instructions that I give at the bottom of the oley oley free post! Rain, rain go away, come again some other day!!!!!!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 05, 2001.

Sad... very sad... all of you Even me for reading all this and replying... I think i'll kill myself \/ bi =|'.'.'.'.'\_____________ .

-- Fisted (pain@sistedfista.com), November 09, 2001.