I'd like to hear from both men and women on this. What are your thoughts on women in, around the homestead? How do you see this different from city, modern country types, or suburban women? I'd also like to hear the differences between the liberal ladies and the conservative ladies. I think we can do this without ruffling feathers, if we state our thoughts and don't try to change anyone or bash anyone. As far as I'm concerned on this thread you may state your religious views as long as you don't try to change anyone or bash anyone.

-- Cindy (SE In) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 30, 2001

Answers

Gosh Cindy is that a ""broad"" question! Ha ha , I couldn't resist. But you are covering quite a bit and I can only answer from my own perspective. I am the one with the homesteader mentality in this house and since it really has to be a team effort, I have felt sort of thwarted in my efforts. But I still dream alot and live vicariously through many of you. In the meantime I just do all that I can with the space and resources I have now. Even though I live in the country I am by no means as isolated as many of you are, or as isolated as I would like to be.

I would like to be more isolated for a couple of reasons. 1. I could do more of the projects I would like without having to worry about the neighbors and 2. I feel very isolated already. I feel this isolation because most women I come in contact with just aren't interested in the same things. Even though they are very nice people, I just cant get into appearances and how much can we own. I just want to be free and the kinds of things they want are the things that bind. So I guess I'm saying it's sort of lonely. That's why I look forward to connecting with all of you.

I want to live my ideal life and not what others say it should be. That's why I think a homestead is an ideal place for a woman. The only limitations are the ones you place on yourself. It's such a feeling of freedom and accomplishment to be living your life the way you decide it should be.

Well I hope I answered what you meant. It was surely not as philosophical or well written as Sheepish, Doreen, or Little Bit, but it's how I feel.

I'll be interested to hear what the others say!

-- Denise (jphammock@msn.com), January 30, 2001.

Ii come from a very conservative viewpoint (Mennonite). However, I agree with the other response (sorry I forgot your name!) who said that the homestead is ideal for women. I think the work-the variety is such a help for me to keep my focus where it ought to be. (And I am not going to state what that is-not brave enough.)

I do find that many women who I am acquainted with think it is impossible to do some of the work I do in a dress-and I have to say that in my experience-nothing could be farther from the truth. It can be hard on the dress though-that barbed wire is tough. :) I am stronger than I ever hought I could be, but I don't think that makes me unfeminine to my husband. I help him and he helps me. We work as a team.

Our children are also learning about work-hard work and how valueable it is. We do beleive that God wants us to work. And one of the best lessons is in the garden...everyone groans when it comes to harvesting peas...it is twice the work as say beans, but they have to be put up anyway...but they are so worth it-to have about as fresh as you can have it peas from your frezer in November is such a treat! And each of the childrn help-this year even the 21/2 year old will.

And as a former suburbanite-I have really found that here on the farm I have a much grater appreciation for God's creation than I did in the city. And I am now more aware of thngs that are wasteful or not good stewardship of what He gives us.

Hope some others will venture in on this thread. thanks for starting it.

Peace and blessings, Sarah

-- Sarah (heartsongacres@juno.com), January 30, 2001.

I have always been a homesteader, most of my ancestors were homesteaders. I was a homesteader when I was single, in a bad marriage, as a single mom, and in a good marriage. The biggest town I actually lived in was 500 people, until I was 37 years old and my husband moved me to the city. We were only there for 18 months and I did have a three acre yard with a garden, arbor and fruit trees, but I still couldn't relate to anyone. I felt like such a social retard. How can we live with so many people around and mega-churches and feel so alone and isolated? There was simply nothing to DO in the city. Not like I could take the kids to the river and go fishing!

I am finally on my own place again way out in the middle of nowhere and have more real friends than I ever had before. So do my kids. All of us out here face the same daily challenges of children, livestock, weather, doing without, and all the other homestead things. We barter, share, teach, and support each other. I can refrain from town for months at a time and never get lonely or feel isolated.

My parents showed me a perfect example of the difference of country women and town women. My parents lived in employee housing for a few years way up in the mountains. Their neighbors and coworkers were unwilling transplants from the cities. My dad took all the guys out to get firewood and got 4 pick-ups loaded and came home. My dad helped all the other younger men unload their trucks and then unloaded his and told my mom with a wink, in front of all the other husbands and wives, "I want this wood split and stacked by time I get home from work tomorrow." Of course, my mom had the wood split and stacked by 4:00 the next day, and the other wives wouldn't speak to my mom for months, they were so mad at her. My mom had been splitting and stacking the firewood for 25 years for the exercise, not because her husband told her to. My parents are in their 70's and still share the labor on their small retirement homestead.

A city person sees a clearcut area and sees death and destruction. A true country person see the rebirth of a forest, food and forage for our wildlife, acres of wildflowers, a cull log teeming with a thousand species of life.

I am fortunate to have a lot of family and friends who understand me and my lifestyle. I live in a culture of life.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 30, 2001.

I am not a true "homesteader" but I love the farm,land and animals. I hate the city and the older I get the less it appeals to me. I do most of the chores now because my husband works different schedules and we never know when he will be here or not. I carry the wood in and help him load it and unload it but he runs the chainsaw and does the spilting. I feed the dogs and cows and clean up the pens. I do most of the "hand" work in the garden and he will do most of the tractor work! I do all the mowing and cleaning the yards and pastures. Not because I have to but because I want to!!!

Yesterday,I planted 6 fruit trees in 3 gal. pots ,replanted 6 raspberry bushes, pulled all the grass growing close to 50 fruit trees and pruned 66 fruit trees and grape vines. I was still working when my husband drove up and said it was time to go to the house and I said "but I am not finished working" he replied with a grin "you can't call it work, if you have a smile on your face after doing all of this"! He's right it's like my hobby! And in a few years I hope to be able to make a living at "having fun! I dare to say that less than 5% of people who are city people are happy with there jobs! I know many of the "homestead" people or just country people that are thrilled with their choices! IMHO!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), January 30, 2001.

Hmmm. Seems to me, there are more women "Homesteaders" than men. Whether it is because we women end up working on our farms, be they large or small, while the men, if there is one in our lives, have to work in the city. Maybe I am way off base here, or maybe just more women get involved in this forum? Do we have more of a need to connect with others doing the same thing we are than men do? I have always gone against the grain, I guess, as my husband was a military officer for 20 years, and the lifestyle, great as it is for some, was not for me. I never felt I fit in with the other wives. I always worked, said what I thought, and my husband was constantly told to "control your wife"! He took that really well, always responded that I was my own person, and he had no intention of telling me I couldn't work at whatever job I wanted, etc. I didn't make it to all the luncheons, etc. Now, he is retired, and we are living where I want to live. Not always his thing, but he does help me do the hard work. I do 99% of the gardening and animal care, and it is where I am most at peace. I'm glad to read posts of women who are trying to go it alone, THEY CAN DO IT. Yes, it's nice to have another set of hands, but a lot of us don't get that. Probably was born 100 years too late! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), January 30, 2001.

Many philosophical and aesthetic differences between the homesteading woman and the "city, modern or suburban woman", - but, the practical and biggest difference is the percentage of her time that is spent in matters relating to FOOD - raising, preserving, and preparing.

I understand why our grandmothers did not pursue the many careers and interests outside of the home that the modern woman does. THERE WAS NO TIME.

75% of my time, work and energy is invested in the projects that culminate in food on the table. I'm not just talking about the greenhouse and garden and canning. Not just the fruit trees, strawberries, grapes and the care and maintenance of the plants that bear the fruit (nurturing, pruning, harvesting).

The care of the livestock (beef cows, milk cow, milk goats,hogs,chickens, ducks) and the harvesting of the crops that will keep them (hay, corn, grains) - the milking, churning, cheesemaking, butchering, curing, smoking.

The homesteading life becomes about raising your food. The more independent you become of outside food sources, - the bigger committment in time you have made, to the raising, harvesting and processing of that food.

My city counterpart (and also me, before we became what we are) has that meal on the table within minutes of coming through the door from her 8 hour job. I would swing by the store and supper was in the cart and I could have it ready in record time, or I ran through the drive through.

In my life now, there are many days that I work in nothing but food and food related projects.

I love what we do and our table is often crowded with our friends and acquaintences who are in awe of what we serve. I love raising it, and harvesting it, and preserving it and preparing it - and, most of all, - serving it - but I won't kid you - it is hard work and it takes most of every waking hour to make it happen.

-- homestead2 (homestead@localnetplus.com), January 30, 2001.

homestead 2, I think you nailed it. Very insightful post!

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), January 30, 2001.

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for .I couldn't move back to the city , i would be arrested for murder .I love it here and wish i were more remote .My ideal would be several miles in the woods with no one in site .I love watching my animals and even the smell of the barnyard .I love watching the children play and not having to worry there ball went into the neighbors yard .Ilove having space {if not money} for anything i could ever want .The children and i do all the chores that pertain to the animals .Hubby will do them if needed .We both cut wood,use the tractor and power tools.Every project we have done has been together .I do beleive i enjoy it more than he does .City woman have no clue , take away the mall,hair salon ,resteraunts and such and they are lost .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@slic.com), January 30, 2001.

The difference between me and the "modern woman" . . . I am at peace. I delight in the beginning of life every spring, value beautiful sunrises and sunsets, and have time in my life for the important things, be it petting my dog or preparing good food for my family. I take a great deal of satisfaction in what I do every day and the challenge of getting it done and go to bed at night exhausted and proud of my day. I doubt you'll find many women who work an eight hour day feeling this way. Owning things (new car, clothes, etc) is not important to me. I am satisfied with myself.

I'm not sure what your looking for with your question "difference between the liberal ladies and the conservative. I don't see how homesteading really effects whether we're liberal or conservative. I think those ideals are established early and it takes major life changes to effect individual changes. Does that make sense? I sometimes find it hard to express my ideas in writing.

-- Betsy K (betsyk@pathwaynet.com), January 31, 2001.

I'm where I need to be, in the country on a few acres. I'd like to be more remote and on more acres, but we have what we can afford and take care of. I get great satisfaction from producing my own food and treading lightly on the land. But I have to remember that there are some folks who would hate it here. They are stimulated by city life and that's ok, too. I don't put down anyone who enjoys city life, as long as they don't look down their nose and ridicule me for my lifestyle choices. I think homesteading is a wonderful place for raising children, and most women with very nurturing natures would recognize this and want it for their kids. I wish my two grown girls would see this, but they love the city and it's "conveniences" and would feel put upon to live in the sticks. So my grandkids are being raised without the enjoyment that coountry life can give. At least they enjoy coming here to visit in the summer. I say, to each his (or her) own.

-- melina b. (goatgalmjb1@hotmail.com), January 31, 2001.

This is one of those things that I think about a lot. There are times when I feel genuinely angry that I am not a man instead of a woman, and it has nothing to do with envy of private parts! It has to do with work, and how our work is valued. We all know that we can work just as hard around the house as any man does, and yet be accused of taking it easy. Even working here on the homestead, bringing in food for the family and saving us money, there are those who think I neglect my family and housework, for the garden and goatkeeping. If I do the dishes, it's expected. If dh does them, what a saint, too bad he has to do the dishes, I should be doing them. Sometimes I feel compelled to go out into the workplace and get a "real job" and command more respect. Then I stop and realize, that what I really want to do, is to stay here on the farm, breed goats, raise good homegrown food, and teach my children. It's not the job, or the money that I wanted, it's the respect. I think more women would be delighted to stay home and contend with little children and running a household if our work was taken seriously, given a value, and apreciated for the undertaking it is. We don't even get paid much, if anything, for work that never ends.

I guess I sound frustrated, and I am. Our bodies are simply not designed for the same kind of work that a man's is. We're engineered for having children, nurturing them, and doing different kinds of work. Why should we attempt to be a second class man, working his jobs, but getting paid less, and respected less for the same work? And then, coming home to do most of the housework, too.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 31, 2001.

Interesting, Rebekah. I'm one of those doing this alone, but to be perfectly hnest it STINKS being the man of the house as well as the woman. People do seem to respect me, but it feels more like I'm some kind of enigma. >:) I just made bad choices early on and *oh well* as far as the help goes. I still smile every single day and am filled with wonder and joy at the intricacies of life and the entire process God made so evident through nature.It floors me sometimes...

I really feel that with the homestead I am doing what God intended and I am truly surprised by how many times I have been able to invent a second pair of hands when working on something. The down side of being pretty much able to do everything yourself is that men are often threatened by your knowledge and ability to get along without them....Sad, but true. Still I wouldn't have it any other way than homesteading. Cities are fine for others, but I can't hang there. I'd rather be muddy!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 31, 2001.

Gee - I always just thought I was a "normal" woman. I do what my Mom did , and my Aunts, and Grandma's and cousins. I work outside the home and then I come home and garden and can and sew.....

I have a job that I love (okay - most of the time!). I work 3 - 12 hour nights a week, plus occasional overtime, as an RN at a hospital 27 miles from the farm. I have only one child, mostly by choice. I have a garden, I can and freeze and make jelly. I sew some of my own clothing and I love to piece quilt blocks. When we had the wood stove, I loaded and unloaded the wood and helped split, stack and carry the wood in and ashes out. I've raised nearly all the standard farm animals at one time or the other - now I just have a few hens. We don't eat enough pork or beef to justify raising our own, so I buy it from friends. I sell some produce off the farm, but give most of my extra away to Sr. Citizen friends of Pop's or to folks that can't have gardens. I frequently take stuff in to friends at work.

I was room mother and class chaparone through all the primary grades when my kids were in school and I'm still very involved with my daughter's activities; but we are evolving into women who are good friends as well as mother and daughter - as it should be as she nears adulthood. I'd like to think that I have taught her to be responsible and to be able to take care of herself if needs be.

There have always been men around me - Pop, Uncles, assorted husbands and male buddies. I'll never deny that the lifting, toting and welding capabilities come in mighty handy on occasion; but I reckon the clean laundry, patched britches and lasagne have left us with no one feeling taken advantage of.

I'm not a Christian, so I don't have a church family to take care of - instead, I give freely to those in need in my world - wherever that world is at the time. Whether it be a ride to work, money for groceries, a couple of happy meals for tired and hungry toddlers at a laundrymat, a sweater for a homeless patient or a bag of M&M's for a co-worker in crisis - I don't miss what I give, and it seems I've been rapiad many times over by the bounty and joy in my life.

If I had to do it alone, I'd do less - only because I'd need less. I'll never be a city person, but I could see myself in town when I get older and feeble - that's okay; cause I think the land needs young people and I think young people need the land. I come from a long history of 3 or 4 generation households, so I reckon that may be my future also.

To me, it doesn't have anything to do with being a homesteader - or a rural person, or a woman either - in the immortal words of Popeye - "I just yam what I yam!"

-- Polly (tigger@moultrie.com), January 31, 2001.

Wow, sometimes our job is the least appreciated, but at the same time it can be the most rewarding. What a sense of accomplishment to can enough food for the whole year, to raise chickens and gather the eggs, to see a calf or in ya'lls case some goats maybe, grow and produce food for your family. To grow a garden that is healthy and productive. To care for a home and make it a comfortable inviting place to be. To clothe your family in clothes that you made with your own two hands and have them sleep under quilts that you have created. To teach your children at home and know exactly what they are learning and be involved with them every day. To have all of this we don't need more material possessions. We are all so blessed. We can be at peace with ourselves knowing that we are doing what we can for our families! My sister's in law(I have 4) think that I am crazy! I'm sure that you all have people tell you that too. I'm so glad that if that is sane(living in that crowded stinky city without stars, soil, farm animals etc), that I am blessedly loony tunes!!!!! Cause I loveit , loveit, loveit! God Bless all of you all!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 03, 2001.

Oh....about wearing dresses all of the time like the mennonite woman above......I do everything in a dress. I have for a long time. I can't imagine it any other way for me....the only time I've worn britches in a long time was when I borrowed my husband's to roof the house on a windy day;~) Wouldn't want to shock the cows ya' know!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 03, 2001.

WOW, interesting. I will try to give you my take on this subject. I am a male but do not pretend to have a man's perspective, just mine.

I think that no matter which group you fit into the objective is the same, to make life better for the family. The approach and "What's important" values differ.

The city lady will work if need be, to provide the latest clothes and gadgets for her family. If she works in an office she will wear the latest styles the job permits, get her hair done once a week, make-up and perfume always, even if she doesn't want too, because it is expected, and she will be very attractive. She will buy everything and do little to put up for the future except in the bank. She will be very good at her job and well respected by her peers. She will eventually seek promotion for the more or better things her family can have. Her children will spent most of their time with baby sitters, day care, and public or private schools, and just hangin out, for the most part this is where their values will come from.

The country lady will make things better for her family by learning and using the skills and attitudes necessary for this type of lifestyle. She will wear comfortable clothing that allows the freedom to do what needs to be done. She will wear very little make- up if any at all around the farm, but may get dolled up for special occasions, night out, or church and will be very attractive. I think the biggest difference is in the children and the attitudes they are going to develope and live their lives by, you girls got the market on that in my opinion, because of the time you are able to spent with them.

The suburban lady, she is caught somewhere in the middle, doesn't like city's but not sure she can do without the work and convinences they offer. She's also not sure she would like to devote that much time to hard labor, for stuff you can buy at the store.

The work that you do, be it on the farm or in the market place is never going to be appreciated by everyone, just like mine is not. It is appreciated by those that matter though, even if it is not said often enough, (sorry). Beauty is said to be in the eyes of the beholder and that is true, if you are in Bib overalls of a cocktail dress you truely are the most beautiful creatures on this earth.

I guess the bottom line is, it doesn't make much difference which lifestyle you choose they are just different, all of them are right if you make them that way.

Thanks for being you. Herb.

PS Hope this doesn't sound corny.

-- Herb. (hsmith@yta,attmil.ne.jp), February 03, 2001.

Thanks from all of us farm women, and corny is a good thing to be ! We can all use an encouraging word!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), February 05, 2001.

I was raised in small town, married and moved to a big city, divorced, remarried then moved to a farm outside a very small town in Kentucky yet I find the women here, even the Amish ones, are still city folk. When I first visited an Amish store I expected home products but found that they shopped in the local grocery stores, went home, unwrapped the products, for example, fruit loop cereal, and then they put them into a plastic resealed bag,put their sticker on it, and raised the price 3 times. I won't buy fruit loops anyway but I did not think this was legal or sanitary. I also find most people want the convience of ready made foods instead of taking the time and energy to do their own. The Old Ky Home is dying from lack of interest. Many of the "arts" are being lost. I live on a 81 acre farm where my husband and I along with one granddaughter, raise our own meat, along with the occassional opossum,squirrel,rabbit, or deer. We process all our own meats and raise all our own vegatables, herbs, and fruits. I still buy sugar and flour, the mills are shut down now, and boy would I love to get my hands on some of those old feed sacks made out of cotton instead of these yacky plastic ones. My friends think I am strange when I tell them I make my own bread and butter. Even my mother in law, at 79yrs old,0thinks I am strange when I tap my own maple trees for syrup. She says "why make it if I can just go buy it?" It just takes too much time, she had done it when she was little and they could not buy it. So, being a true country girl, I love the labor it takes to make a warm loaf of bread, spreading it with true butter and then spreading that with warm maple syrup. Hey, I can eat like that and not gain weight for I work enough to burn up those delicious calories. Eat your hearts out, city girls, I get my cake and eat it too.

-- Georgia Ann Crank (Geohar@kih.net), February 05, 2001.

Herb, you a very astute man and gentlemanly to boot!! Thanks for the word of encouragement!! From the "country" (by choice) side of the female persuasion.

-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), February 05, 2001.

I'll try to make this short. Even so I grew up a citygirl in populated Germany, I guess I was always different. I speak my mind, and always have,and I never was one for many frills, even so I had the opportunity . Since my husband transplanted me to rural Maine, and we have become more and more homesteaders, I learned how to raise a garden,and preserve the harvest, cut, split, stack wood, keep a fire,raise just about any critter imaginable, make rugs , shear sheep etc. Every new thing I learn makes me proud, and stronger a person. The women here grew up knowing a lot of what I'm learning, and they are trying to get away from it. I think it's all in the state of mind.

-- karin morey (www.wind_crest@hotmail.com), February 05, 2001.

I was raised a farm girl and then I grew up and moved to town to make "something" of myself. And never one day passed that I didn't long for the tall timber and the cow-paths of my home. It took 30 years, but I'm back. Why? Because I put on shoes to move to town and for 30 years never took them off. Now I have the dirt under my feet. I know the phases of the moon, the position of the stars in the sky in every season. I hear the birds and feel the wind and smell snow in the air. The seasons turn and I am there to witness it, and I am part of the cycle. In town, the time passed. One day pretty much like the other with obligations that kept my head down and burdens that kept my shoulder to the wheel. On the farm, I know when the sun comes up and goes down, I know when the weather changes, I can see the rain clouds coming and going. Spring, summer, fall and winter. That's why I live on the farm. In town, time passes. On the farm, the world turns.

-- Maggie's Farm (elemon@peacehealth.org), February 06, 2001.

Hi Yall! I am here in the heart of Texas, College Station Tx working at Tx A&M University. I was raised in the big city of Houston but spent weekends and summers on my grandfather's farm in east Tx. We have been in this area for almost 5 yrs. We live on a small (8acres)farm just south of College Station. It is heaven to me and I long for the day I will not have to drive to town to work. This morning I was up earlier than usual to run out to the barn and see if our FIRST new calf was born during the night. Not yet! I checked the garden and fed the other cows and let the chickens out. I have not found too many women who would enjoy this lifestyle and was thrilled to find this web site. I was looking for canning recipes. I have frozen squash and beans and made pickles and stored new potatoes in the car port. But I have no one to talk to about it. I would like to visit with the mennonite and others who are living in remote areas. I long to live so far in the country that if someone came down the road you'd know they were coming to see you or were lost! Well gotta go for now and get back to work so I can leave and go to the work I love. Linda

-- Linda Wernecke (lmwernecke@medicine.tamu.edu), May 24, 2001.

I am SO happy to read these responses, I am NOT the only one who feels this way. I am 45 years old, and have lived in the city most of my life, renting from others, and living by someone else's rules. Through the inspiration and encouragement that I have gotten through reading Countryside for the last 5 years, I have finally (!!!) been able to purchase 13.5 acres of land in Maine. I hope to soon be able to respond to a question like this one as the rest of you have done. My spirit has been homesteading for 10 years, now my body can experience this also! I am a weaver, a spinner, a knitter, a homeschooler, and I just built my first chicken coop, and received my first two laying hens. The first two rabbits are sharing quarters with them. If you haven't been able to homestead by "body" yet, start homesteading by "spirit", it'll be that much easier for the body to catch up when the time is right!

Finally Home, in body and spirit....

-- Sandie in Maine(finally!) (peqbear@maine.rr.com), October 27, 2001.