http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/01/29/MN124175.DTL

U.S. Cheney Calls Energy Woes State's Mess

Vice president says U.S. won't extend sale order

Peter Hartlaub, David R. Baker, Chronicle Staff Writers

Monday, January 29, 2001

On the eve of a White House strategy session on California's energy crisis, Vice President Dick Cheney warned yesterday that the state will have to fix the power mess without much federal help.

He blamed the crisis on flaws in the state's deregulation scheme and said the Bush administration will not issue another emergency order forcing suppliers to sell power to California when the current order expires Feb. 7.

"We're prepared to do those things that we can to help, but the basic problem in California was caused by Californians," Cheney said on "Fox News Sunday."

His comments, made as the state endured its 13th straight day on alert for possible rolling blackouts, were the strongest signal yet that the administration will not intervene even as the crisis commands more attention in Washington.

President Bush will meet with Cabinet officials and agency heads today to discuss California's power problems. A meeting between administration officials and several governors of Western states, where anger is on the rise over the crisis' effects, is planned for Thursday.

For their part, California officials said they are moving forward as fast as possible on their own efforts to deal with the power crunch, mindful of the looming Feb. 7 deadline. Assembly Speaker Robert Hertzberg, D-Sherman Oaks, for example, has introduced a bill that would allow the state to issue bonds to pay for electricity under long-term contracts -- with no reliance on a federal bailout.

"The governor and the bipartisan leadership are making substantial progress and are aware of the time constraints," Steve Maviglio, spokesman for Gov. Gray Davis, said yesterday.

But some of the federal help state officials wanted, including a cap on wholesale power prices, seemed unlikely at best.

"They should expect no more help from the White House," Bush's top economic adviser, Larry Lindsey, said yesterday on CBS' "Face the Nation."

"It's not that we don't want to give them the help. If we could send thunderbolts into the electric grid to run electricity, we would do it. We can't."

Despite another day on Stage 3 alert, California managed to avert blackouts on Super Bowl Sunday, according to a spokeswoman for the organization that runs the state's power grid. The state faces another Stage 3 alert today.

Blackouts lasting about two hours hit almost 2 million California homes and businesses Jan. 17 and 18.

The Bush administration is aware of the risk of appearing callous to California voters. One GOP source said Bush wants to avoid a repeat of Gerald Ford's costly decision not to intervene in New York's bankruptcy crisis in the 1970s, a choice that battered Ford's public image.

And yet, Bush has avoided calls for such direct action as instituting price caps. Instead, administration officials have suggested easing environmental restrictions as a way to build more generating plants.

Cheney yesterday blamed much of the crisis on elements of California's deregulation plan that he said made construction of new power plants difficult and slow. Maviglio responded that the state now has five power plants under construction and 19 in the pipeline.

In approaching the problem, Bush will hear from California's neighbors. Officials in Oregon and Washington are upset by the order that forces suppliers to continue selling scarce electricity and natural gas to California.

They complain that the order drains the reservoirs that fuel hydroelectric plants, endangers salmon runs, raises consumer rates and threatens electricity shortages in the summer. California has also relied on power coming from Arizona.

"The cost of putting California power in now is less power this summer," Lindsey said on CNN's "Late Edition." "It is closing down aluminum smelters in Oregon, it's closing down agriculture in Arizona."

Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham and newly appointed Federal Energy Regulatory Commission head Curt L. Hebert Jr. will meet this week with western governors in Portland, Ore., to discuss the problem.

California's power crisis can be traced back to the state's 1996 deregulation law that forced investor-owned utilities to sell their power plants and buy wholesale power, but capped the rates they can charge customers.

As a result, Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas & Electric Co. say they've lost more than $10 billion due to soaring wholesale prices and are near financial ruin.

Electricity and natural gas suppliers, scared off by the two utilities' poor credit ratings, are refusing to sell to them. That, combined with a tight supply and high demand has pushed California into an hour-by-hour search for electricity and has resulted in day after day of severe power shortages, including two days of blackouts.

-- (in@energy.news), January 30, 2001

Answers

Of course! California, Washington, Oregon, New Mexico -- lots of these western states are Democratic states. Why would Bush, even though he's called the "president" of the whole nation, give a rat's ass about states that voted Democratic?

-- Coup2k (thanks@pubs!.com), January 30, 2001.

caves@are.us), January 30, 2001.

Oops!

Letter from W. Youngquist to Gov. Davis

http://pub38.ezboard.com/fdownstreamventurespetroleummarkets.showMessa ge?topicID=2350.topic

-- Cave Man (Caves@are.us), January 30, 2001.

Where is J and co on this crap? Just let California tank? What happens by June when the demand really peaks?

Cheney and co either know this whole energy crisis is their own doing. That they can and are ending it now since it worked in getting Dumbo elected. OR the man is freaking insane and is ready to let the whole country go down the shitter. Does Dick have any conception of what California means to the whole?

Build power plants? what? by June? ya freaking fatass moron? Dick Cheney a class A buffoon.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), January 30, 2001.

Ya know Coup you have an excellent point there. I say Divided States, red and blue.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), January 30, 2001.

Coup2k,

Do you ever think before you start spouting off at the keyboard?

In this situation, what is good for California is not good for Washington and Oregon. So how is it that Bush doesn't care about any of the Democrat voting states out West, when what he does will, by definition, help some while not helping others? Can you answer that, Mr. Brain Trust?


Doc Paulie,

Am I the "J" to whom you are referring?

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), January 30, 2001.

Maria,

I'd be absolutely delighted to divide states, as long as you and your ilk are in the red, and I'm in the blue.

Actually, I'd love to pull the West and East Coasts into a new nation and let the south and midwest stew in their deregulation mania.

-- Coup2k (thanks@pubs!.com), January 30, 2001.

Actually, I'd love to pull the West and East Coasts into a new nation and let the south and midwest stew in their deregulation mania.

Oh GAWD!

Please make good on your threats! You're incessant whining on this forum is beginning to sound like a dentist's drill.

And, if you do decide to "make a new nation" please, PLEASE, take Droolie, Meathead, Cherri, Futureshock, and all the other looneys with you!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

-- guess who (kiss.my@ass.com), January 30, 2001.

Resident Bush (well, he does live in the white house) uses California's energy crunch as an excuse to ignore clean air laws and exploit public lands including the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Bush and Cheney stand to gain much as they are tied to the companies who will profit from this, namely Enron and Halliburton.

Meanwhile, they ignore California's problems, which are also to the benefit of Enron, whose stock has skyrocketed since. It amounts to a massive transfer of wealth from the taxpayers to the private sector, all under the guise of the "free market."

The conflicts of interest here are mind boggling. Kenneth Lay, chairman of Enron, was a prime mover in George W. Bush's presidential campaign; he has also been an influential voice in favor of electricity deregulation, and Enron is profiting handsomely from the electricity it sells in California. But what he actually said was that California's power consumers "need to see the price signals" [that is, pay much more]

Houston-based companies that helped sell naïve officials on the glories of a deregulated market are now saying: "Sorry, it hasn't worked out the way we promised, but tough luck — you'll pay the cost for our mistake, and we'll profit. And don't even think about alternatives — our friend the president won't let you try them."

Bush said he intended to act "boldly and swiftly" to enact a plan, which includes an effort to pass legislation allowing drilling in protected areas of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and granting waivers to states that seek to run older plants at full capacity — even, administration officials said, if that means violating clean air standards.

Bush is using California as an excuse to push an oil industry agenda bearing at best an indirect relationship to the electricity troubles.

It's just irresponsible to lead Americans to believe that new drilling in Alaska is going to have an impact on their electricity bills. Frankly, it does not even pass the laugh test. There's simply no link between the problems in California and the wildlife refuge.

Thanks to President Bush, who only stands to gain financially from the crisis. I cannot remember a President who was so openly corrupt….or hypocritical.

Enron is the nation's single largest purveyor of natural gas in the country. Bush's ties to Enron are well known, Enron being one of the single largest contributors to his 2000 campaign and to the Republican Party. Enron's CEO, Kenneth Lay, was a member of Bush's energy transition team and has a lot of influence. Enron is one company that stands to profit enormously from the continuation of the energy crisis in California, and Bush only stands to benefit from his largesse to Enron in refusing to help the citizens of California.

And don't forget, California IS a Democratic state. So much for being the president of everyone. In 1998, W was screaming for federal aid for fires in Texas, which he got.

-- Mark (no@address.com), January 30, 2001.

Letter to the editor from Monday's LA Times sez it all.

"Having worked for the California Energy Commisson in the mid-70's, I am reminded of a visit from Washington Gov. Dixy Lee Ray in 1977. She told the California Legislature that California had to find new energy sources and that the Pacific Northwest cannot continue its supply. I also remember the California eco-nuts' push not to site the Sundesert nuclear facility; also, the same attitude in shutting down the Rancho Seco nuclear facility. With these two plants running today, there would be no energy crisis."

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), January 30, 2001.

The District of Columbia Blessing

May you flourish like the profits of the Fortune 100 under deregulation.

May your soul be as generous as a pharmaceutical lobbyist's expense account.

May your health be as vigorous as your Congressman's appetite for campaign contributions.

May your heart overflow with love as often the effluent pond behind a pig slaughterhouse overflows into nearby waterways.

May your enemies be as ineffective as the testimony at a public hearing when a multinational corporation wants a long-term tax break from the county government in return for building a factory on a wetland.

May God smile upon you as radiantly as the sun shines through the hole in the ozone upon an Australian.

May you avoid misfortune as easily as a Senator's son avoids prosecution for drunk driving.

May you be as happy as a CEO opening his golden parachute.

May you live as long as radioactive waste.

-- Break out the cookies and milk (aimless@national_raffle_association.org), January 30, 2001.

Dumbya and Friends intend to let California tumble into the Energy Abyss so they have the perfect excuse to plunder *possible* oil and gas deposits in environmentally protected lands. Rather than promote and encourage Renewable Energy sources (solar, wind) he'd much rather rape the land as our legacy for future generations. It's what Oil Men do, isn't it? It's shortsighted, irresponsible and reprehensible.

And now I'm wondering what happened to all that "compassion" they were throwing around not too long ago. Do those Bozos have ANY idea the repercussions that will be suffered by the *entire* country if California is allowed to go dark? Do they have any concept of the "Ripple-Effect"? Then again, maybe they don't care. Maybe they're just setting up a excuse to relive Desert Storm and finish the job Daddy left undone.

The whole thing stinks!

-- Bush (Sucks@AntiChrist.com), January 30, 2001.

Just because California didn't want more power plants being built, I would assume that you want the rest of the nation to supply you with cheap power? Just because California didn't want to build more power plants and now find that they have their asses exposed, you want the rest of us to bail you out?

I don't live in that state, thus I do not wish to pay so that the people which live in the state of California can have power cheaper than the power I purchase. Either they build more power plants, pay their damn bills, or quite frankly, they can sit in the dark.

Pack Sand Dumbass!

-- (Pack@Sand.Dumbass), January 30, 2001.

Okay, Dumbass, we'll play it your way. Next time there's a hurricane, forest fire, chemical explosion, or (insert your disaster of choice here) we'll just let your sorry ass sit there without any consideration or assistance. I mean, why should *I* pay *my* taxes to help anybody but ME! Me, me, MEEEEEEEEE! Yup, yours is definitely the kinder, gentler voice of "compassion". What was I thinking?

-- GoToHell (BlindAndSelfish@Asshole.com), January 30, 2001.

I thought Bush was supposed to "unite" the country. I guess in his eyes California doesn't count. Very foolish position considering its economy and ability to bring down the whole house of cards. Unless, of course, Bush is harboring a secret Economic Death Wish.

As falls California, so falls the nation.

-- Connect (The@Dots.com), January 30, 2001.

Problem here is Cheney is simply unqualified to hold the position he has. His comments, and Larry Lindsey's here are nothing short of irresponsible. These two should NOT be in the positions they are. These knuckleheads have reduced a very serious crisis to partisian politics of the worst kind. Ignoring many of their own in the process without caring one damn bit.

But then again, when did these selfish AHoles ever care about anyone else beyond themselves? Republicans from California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, and Arizona I hope you are beginning to awaken to the dingbats running your party.

This is California(but might as well be ANY state frankly). Does Cheney understand what Silicon Valley is? or California Agriculture is? Sheer stupidity alone boggles the mind. Feds should be doing everything possible to help. But are they? Course not, what they are doing is saying f*ck you bastards out west and trying to ram down the countrys' throat some hairbrain Fed handout to Charitable orgs. A plan which now rational Conservatives are having serious doubts about. The Memes however are sucking up the baloney like they always do.

Have memes on this thread parroting the Cheney crud. I like the Natural Disaster reference. If this is allowed to continue in California, might as well kiss this economy bye-bye, it is THAT serious. Thing is growing BTW. Just today here in Nevada, Sierra Pacific asked the PUC for rate hikes starting at 20%, all the way up to 100%.

And Yes, I was referring to you J. I would like you to somehow explain Cheney's irresponsible, ignorant and truly ridiculous statements. Leave the past where it is and address what is a CRISIS situation and the comments of Cheney. Ya California could have done alot of things different. We also could have not had a 50%+ increase in the most important component to our way of life as well. Could ANY business survive such a hit?

It is Jan/Feb, deal with it NOW or by June game is over. With California will go the Stock Market, your 401k plans and probably many of your jobs around America. Future expansion in the West is now DEAD IN THE WATER as a result of this. All the while we get the crap from Cheney and the Bush Administartion that it is just Too Badd???

Look, I am no energy expert. But I can tell irresponsible behavior when I see it and Cheney is way out of line.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), January 31, 2001.

Doc Paulie,

How much have you reduced your energy usage by since this crisis began? How much has the company you work for reduced its usage of energy? Are you doing anything constructive to assist, or are you relying on someone else to solve the problem for you?

-- Malcolm Taylor (taylorm@es.co.nz), January 31, 2001.

"...Futureshock, and all the other looneys with you!"

Guess who:

Thanks for the specious referral. Just can't engage your mind before your tounge, Barry? Haven't said anything to you in weeks, but because I am at the opposite end of your political spectrum, I am called a loonie. Sad.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), January 31, 2001.

U.S. Gas Production Drop May Spell Trouble For Future Supply

Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:37AM EST

NEW YORK -- A decline in U.S. natural gas production during the fourth quarter may spell trouble ahead for 2001 production growth.

While the tally isn't complete, the fourth-quarter numbers from the major oil and gas producers that have already posted results show an overall decline in natural gas production from the third quarter.

The production slump is startling because it is counterintuitive, coming at a time when gas demand is growing, prices are strong, and the number of rigs drilling for natural gas is at a record level.

'I think given the robust commodity price picture that we have been seeing, the sequential decline in natural gas production so far is a little bit troublesome,' said Lehman Brothers Inc. analyst Paul Cheng.

Most would expect oil and gas companies to produce more gas when prices are strong, but some believe the last industry downturn had such a negative effect on the industry that many companies remain averse to risk.

While there is plenty of drilling activity, the gas reserves being targeted are smaller in size and the decline rates are greater, said David Pursell, an analyst at Simmons & Co. International in Houston.

Judging by the reduction in dry hole expenses, it appears that companies are drilling wells in the same geographic areas that have been reliable producers in the past. The problem with that strategy is the remaining reserves in a region tend to dwindle over time.

A decline in dry hole expenses, which are write-offs for costs related to an unsuccessful well, usually indicates fewer exploratory wells are being drilled, Pursell said.

'You have to ask, when are you going to put the 'E' back in 'E&P' projects,' Pursell said, referring to the need for new exploration to create production growth.

At Texaco Inc. (TX), two-thirds of the drop in fourth-quarter U.S. gas production from the third quarter was attributed to the natural decline rate of its wells, said Paul Weeditz, a spokesman for the White Plains, N.Y., energy company.

Sales of gas-producing properties accounted for the remainder of the decline, he said.

Looking ahead, Texaco expects to maintain U.S. gas production at its current levels, Weeditz said.

At Chevron Corp. (CHV) asset sales were the reason for the quarter-to-quarter decline in U.S. natural gas production, said company spokeswoman Bonnie Chaikind.

Excluding asset sales, gas production was flat sequentially, she said. Lower Spending May Have Sped Up Decline Rates

Also, lower spending on well infrastructure during the last oil industry downturn in late 1997 to 1999 may have accelerated the decline rate of some reserves, said Tyler Dann, an analyst at Banc of America Securities LLC.

He likened the industry's situation to the difficulty one encounters trying to get back on a moving treadmill after stepping off the machine.

Furthermore, the large oil and gas companies have shown an unwillingness to increase price expectations in the budget process, Dann said. As a result, some exploration projects that would be economically feasible under current prices won't be pursued because of the tough financial criteria.

This is especially important because there is a growing opinion that natural gas prices will settle at a higher average level in the future.

'If the new 'plateau' for natural gas prices is higher than what consensus projects it to be, then energy companies need to increase their leverage to natural gas production around the world,' said Gene Pisasale, senior energy analyst at Wilmington Trust.

But this isn't likely to occur overnight.

Late in the fourth quarter, Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM) took steps to increase its gas production by maximizing production of natural gas rather than liquids at its U.S. gas plants, said company spokeswoman Suzanne McCarron.

The Irving, Texas, oil and gas giant also expects to increase its spending 15% to 20% from 2001, McCarron said.

How much of the increased spending will translate into higher production, is the big question, said industry observers, who have watched oil companies get less for their money in 2000.

In an estimate Pursell describes as aggressive, the analyst predicted the industry's U.S. gas production in 2001 will rise only 2%.

Looking further ahead, the situation may improve.

'According to both private sector and government estimates, it appears that considerable new supplies of natural gas will come on line in 12 to 24 months,' said Rhone Resch, a spokesman for the Natural Gas Supply Association, a Washington, D.C., trade group for gas producers.

The caveat there is that many of the estimates Resch is quoting depend on the Bush administration's willingness to open lands controlled by the federal government, mostly in the Rocky Mountains and the eastern Gulf of Mexico, to drilling.

(This story was originally published by Dow Jones Newswires)

Copyright (c) 2001 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

http://dowjones.work.com/index.asp?layout=story_ind_news&vertical=Ener gy&industry=Oil+%26+Gas&doc_id=32058

-- Cave Man (caves@are.us), January 31, 2001.

Malcolm, excellent question. I'd like to see it answered by all Californians on this board. Calling for the federal government to intercede without taking personal action to limit usage wouldn't be prudent, IMO. Not judging before the fact, mind you. I really would like to know what folks are doing to lessen the crunch.

Who's Meathead?

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), January 31, 2001.

Hello..............

-- Meathead here..... (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), January 31, 2001.

But you're from Brooklyn, Patricia, and Michael Stivik was from Queens. He had a mustache and you do not. He's well over six feet tall and you're, uh, not quite six feet tall. I'm sure there are more dissimilarities...

-- Rich (howe9@shentel.net), January 31, 2001.

I admitt I skimmed over this one, but did note that Cheney imo dont wanna help.

Sooooo.....how many in Ca voted for this administration?

Hee hee, I cant honestly wave my hand on this one.

Just seems to me they are extending a rather large middle finger to the Californian's.

Or is it just me?

-- sumer (shh@aol.con), January 31, 2001.

Rich, I don't get it (<---irony alert), but I'm going with it.

("...not quite six feet tall..." -- rotflmao....)

-- (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), January 31, 2001.

'Sumer.....I just saw the funniest headline:

Rate Cut Seen to Pep Up Moody Consumers

LOL :-)

-- (PatriciaS@lasvegas.com), January 31, 2001.

Maybe the irresponsible Dick Cheney/Bush Administration would benefit from reading this..NE RC 2000/2001 Energy Assessment, before spouting off their rhetoric again.

Thanks so much Memes for explaining why your Leaders feel the appropriate response to the Western United States Electrical Crisis is the middle-finger. Hell the whole energy issue in fact. But then again, these wimps are just doing what their REAL supporters like Enron installed them to do, make THEM money. I am sure they are grateful many in this country are so blind and help their causes.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), January 31, 2001.

Rate Cut Seen to Pep Up Moody Consumers

Pat: ROFLMAO...

*wink* um, have i been That moody? :-)

yes, I guess and it shows.

DOC:

I dont know enough bout the situation to elaborate other than it did appear to me the large middle finger was being uplifted.

I dont feel its right to do that to california, but then again, WHOSE fault is this situation anyway.?

I hear Cali got in its own hole blah blah blah, but I dont know enuff bout it.

Middle finger was just an observation and I'd also observe that IF I had voted for bush and lived in Cali, I'd be reaaaallll pissed off right bout now, regardless of "how" this mess happened.

OR.....i could always believe paula. NOT.

-- sumer (shh@aol.con), January 31, 2001.

Doc Paulie,

I am honored to be the person that comes to your mind when you think "conservative" on this forum. : )

The problem is not Cheney's lack of qualification, Doc. The problem is that California legislators allowed the state's utilities' cost structure to float (deregulation), while they kept the utilities' revenue structure fixed (regulation). This, when combined with no new generating capacity and an increasing population, is a recipe for disaster. When generating costs were low, this allowed generous profits for the utilities. When generating costs recently spiked sharply higher, it cost the utilities billions, as they couldn't pass their increased costs along to their customers.

The solution is not, as you suggest, for the federal government to continue to strong-arm independent power producers and neighboring states into providing California with cheap power, regardless of how important California may be to the economy. Your clamoring otherwise has a distinctly socialist flavor to it.

Since you live right next door in Nevada, Doc, how would you like it if the federal government forced Nevada into higher electricity prices and rolling blackouts so that California could have unlimited cheap electricity? Remember, California is so important to the economy. : )

Just because Cheney does not espouse the socialists favored solution, it does not mean that his statements are, "irresponsible, ignorant, and truly ridiculous". Talk about being infected with the meme.

I do not believe that there is any easy answer to the CRISIS. Part of the solution is to make Californians pay more for their power usage. This may, indeed, cause business failures and an economic downturn, but the consequence of an easy money economic expansion is always an economic downturn. The more that one papers over the problems now, the more dire the eventual downturn later.

Part of the longer term solution is obviously for California to build more generating capacity, but you are right on when you say that it can't be done by June. This thing will get worse before it gets better.

I am not an energy expert, either, but I am also very astute at recognizing irresponsible behavior when I see it. It is not Cheney that is out of line, Doc, it is the Californians who have created this mess and who are now crying like little babies for everyone else around them to foot the bill to bail them out... because they are sooooo important to the nation's economy, of course. : )

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), January 31, 2001.

The Little People in California got sold down the river by the politicians in cahoots with the energy companies when they all decided that deregulation was the way to go. The result: humongous utility bills for the consumers and GIGANTIC profits for the energy guys.

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

-- Don't (Blame@TheLittleGuy.com), January 31, 2001.

All fine and dandy J, problem is it does not address Cheney's comments. BTW, I agree with most of your reply.

Cheney should be a LEADER. Do the comments indicate that to you? Does a leader when faced with a crisis, sit around and point-fingers? Cheney is no Leader, he is a Simpleton ex-Haliburton Whore of the Republican Party.

Ultimate irony to this crisis is the fact it focuses on California but involves most of the West. It is a FEDERAL problem caused by Feds in the Energy Department under the old Clinton Administartion who were equaly nothing but pandering representatives for Multi-National Corporations.

Again, is this kind of behavior by Cheney and the Bush Administartion indicative of LEADERSHIP. Like I said before, ya many supposedly f*cked-up. Deal with NOW, called reality by some. Is the Bush Administartion response here even approaching responsible?

BTW, this thing will spread cause it has little if anything to do with the baloney being fed you about snaildarters, eco-nazis, liberal wackos running Cali. All true as far as they go which ain't far at all. Problem is summed up nicely by the Deregulation article posted on another thread. This is about Capitalists doing what they do using the age-old tactic of painting their scam as some Free market based endeavor. Memes suck it up like baby robins do regurgitated worm guts.

Cheney/Bush are representing the Capitalists, end of story. They care not one ioda about who they claim to represent. They are not LEADERS, they are puppets.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), January 31, 2001.

Doc Paulie,

I am not sure what you expected Cheney to say. According to the article (I only saw one quote) he basically said that the "problem in California was caused by Californians".

This is leadership whether you realize it or not. He was telling the state that they should not expect the federal government to do any long-term socialist power engineering, and that California better work out the problem by themselves. It may be more painful for California that way, maybe even for the national economy, but it is more equitable for Californians to pay for their own energy crisis than it is for you to sit in the dark in Nevada because your neighbors to the West bungled their deregulation plan, and they don't want any more power plants in their backyard.

I am not sure that I agree with you that it is a federal problem caused by the Dept. of Energy, but I would be interested to see what role their actions (or inactions) played in this situation.

Again, I don't believe that Bush/Cheney are necessarily showing a lack of leadership just because they won't inequitably continue to force those around California to bail California out of its own mess. It may be enlightening for you to look at this from another perspectiove, if possible; for your proclamation of them merely being puppets to the capitalists would be viewed by many as itself being caused by a meme. : )

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), January 31, 2001.

Since you live right next door in Nevada, Doc, how would you like it if the federal government forced Nevada into higher electricity prices and rolling blackouts so that California could have unlimited cheap electricity? Remember, California is so important to the economy. : )

BTW, this is already the reality J.

The meme being fed you folks is based on your other memes which say Liberals=incompetence and massive bureaucracy. Not completely false but ignores the real fact the scumballs selling as much are exactly the same(and in Reagan's reign) even more the bureaucracy builders.

This Western United States crisis, which is spreading wherever this Degregulation pile is allowed to grow, is being ignored beyond California by the fact THEY have convinced the memes the whole thing is about Liberal incompetence. It feeds on resentment to Hollywood, Technology(Silicon Valley), failed dot com investments, Greenies, Homosexuals in SF, all manner of everything which is wrong with America which is all lumped under the evil banner of Liberalism.

How is protecting the environment NOT a Conservative action? Go figure and understand you are confused to the point most of your arguments tank based on simple logical analysis.

Cheney is spewing the rhetoric, the meme. It lacks ANYTHING deeper than that. It is beyond SPIN, it is dangerous, irresponsible and toxic. Behind the scenes these folks are indeed doing things which are helpful in resolving the situation, and they will help. But publically the Cheney/Junior circus is doing their job,,feeding the memes what they need to stay comfy in their delusional reality implanted in their noodles. To believe EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY problem on the face of the planet is traceable to LIBERALS or Klinton.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), January 31, 2001.

DAMMIT....

I HAVE to know ..... WHAT IS A meme?

I've heard this term for over 2 years, please someone explain.

Thank you.

-- sumer (shh@aol.con), January 31, 2001.

Doc Paulie,

Be careful. Memes show no ideological mercy. Your characterization of us on the right falling for a meme might just be you on the left falling for a different meme.

Remember Hillary saying that the reports of Bill's dalliances were all just a "right- wing conspiracy"?

Or maybe they were just facts.

-- J (Y2J@home.comm), January 31, 2001.

Here ya go Consumer...http://www.memes.org.uk/meme-lab/DART96.HTM

What did I expect Cheney to say? ah anything resembling what an ADULT would say J. Someone with a tad of responsibilty and understanding. I know CARING is not an attribute recommended for Conservatives, thus your problem seeing the obvious.

BTW, gee ya think the Left is infected? like this is as well debatable? Course they are, cause they are but the flipside of the freaking Conservatives.

Whatever happened to COMMON SENSE? Just leave us the f$ck alone people. Uphold the base laws, protect our borders, markets, human rights and get lost with your "agendas".

Energy was regulated for decades for a reason, it is by definition largely a monopoly market. It has to be regulated to insure fairness for all. In more diverse and option filled markets, the market itself does this job with appropriate regulation if needed. Damn right Conservative notions-old school in fact, notions popular before the scumballs moved in with their either/or schemes to expand marketshares.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), January 31, 2001.

Since 1996 when deregulation went into effect, So. Ca. Edison transferred $4.8 billion in profits (that's b-b-b-billion with a "B") to its parent company. The whining about being on the verge of bankruptcy and creating an energy "crisis" is nothing more than a ploy. We're being hoodwinked for an ulterior purpose!

-- WakeUpAnd (SmellTheCoffee@Rip-off.com), January 31, 2001.

-- Coup2k (thanks@pubs!.com), January 31, 2001.

Might taste better than the shit smirk looks to be eating, and thus needs six glasses of water to wash down.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), February 01, 2001.

Thanks Doc...

slaps head, I thought that is what a meme was...duh/ :-)

-- sumer (shh@aol.con), February 02, 2001.