I just got through reading the building permits post and the replies. Where I am, southeastern MA, we have to have a permit for just about everything. What I would like to know is what parts of the country can one move to that have no or minimal permit requirements? I'm seriously considering a move to northern Maine, which is quite rural for the most part, but upon investigation I find a lot of these small towns have building inspectors and the like which doesn't make me overly happy! There are some unorganized territories up there with no local government at all but one would have to start from page one as in clear the land and build from scratch etc. etc. and I'm not up to that task as it were. Also of concern are firearms requirements as far as permits etc. Thanks for any input!

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), January 25, 2001

Answers

Response to Good Places to Live?

Bob you must find a happy inbetween. To many permits is very restrictive, but no permits is worse. This means that folks can live in anything, have animals running everywhere with no fencing, no leash laws, and worse, they can run their septic anywhere they want including once it rains into the local water ways. How about dodging pot belly pigs, chickens, guineas, dogs, and even a donkey just trying to get down the dirt road? You also have electrical fires, who cares if they burn themselves down, but what happens when it starts the forest on fire, something that happened recently! Trash fires smell up the area for days, especially when it is smoldering trash. You would have to live in the middle of a very large piece of poperty for this not to touch you. San Jacinto County, TX has no permits, though they do now have a thinly veiled septic rule, which really only touches new construction, once you live in any city in Texas with over 5,000 you start the permit cycle, with electrical and plumbing permits, some building permits if you are in the city. At least this is how it is in East Texas. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 25, 2001.

Response to Good Places to Live?

Yes, Vicki is right. Never underestimate the potential of your neighbors to ruin your property because of ignorance. Consider, for example, water wells. In my area you need a permit to drill, which takes time and money, but it's so easy for indiscriminate drilling to disrupt water tables by draining other wells dry or else by contamination.

Also, here you need a permit to grade the soil over a certain minimal volume. This is in consideration of water runoff and drainage. Without an approved grading plan your neighbor may very innocently turn your high quality pasture into a spring rice paddy, or else create havoc with erosion problems.

Many permit regulations are ridiculous, of course, but I just thought I'd point out a couple of consequences of NO regulation. Hope you find a good piece of land.

-- Leslie A. (lesliea@home.com), January 25, 2001.

Northeast Alabama...specifically, Calhoun County....piece of heaven..NO PERMITS FOR ANYTHING and we love it...sure, we have the kid across the lane with his broken down trailer on his Grandma's acre, with 8 dead cars and a half a truck in his "front yard", his windows broken and covered by waving Confederate flags, his five mangy good-for-nothing dogs,and knee-deep trash all over the place, but hey, that's why God made fast-growing trees and thorny hedges...We have a volunteer fire department (just as we did in Strasburg, PA and paid $4000/yr property taxes), we have County water if we choose to have it, and the sheriff if you need him. We are putting up a barn..anyplace we want to...we had our workshop wired by a retired master electrician for $100 and a few glasses of iced tea..no permit/inspection....we can build anything or do anything that we choose..sure, the trade off is the kid in the trailer can do anything he wants to as well....no problem...we would rather be here and make our own compromises with the neighbor than have "Big Brother" on our porch with permit/inspection papers anyday...PA got so silly, they demanded that all the homeowners have sidewalks installed....we said "see ya"...If the land around our 8 acres turns from forest to a trailer park, subdivsion, or the next theme park, we'll just plant more beautiful trees....God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 25, 2001.

Oh, forgot to mention firearms....no problem..I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon..it took me 24 hours and cost $10

When we want to take our guns out back and have target practice, no problem..fire away..this could be why all the neighbors get along eventually......

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 25, 2001.

Flathead County, Northwest Montana. The county officials contracted with a consulting firm to develop a permit and fee structure for all types of development activity in the county. As soon as they implemented it, the residents got a referendum on the ballot and voted it down! No permits in Flathead County.

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), January 26, 2001.

I never gave much if any thought about neighbors having any effect on my land. A good point. I imagine there are regulations regarding water and waste on the state and federal levels that have to be adhered to anyways. If that is the case I would assume no permits are still a good thing, at least from my perspective. I'm starting a search of real estate sites to see what the prices are on rural land in the few places I'm aware of, ie: the Ozarks and few others. Thanks for your advice. Anyone with more input would be greatly appreciated.

-- Bob Johnson (Backwoods_Bob@excite.com), January 26, 2001.

Bob, Maine's unorganized territories (UT) are simply that -- unorganized townships in the political sense. That doesn't mean they are uninhabited or that farms aren't available. They have a population of more than 30,000 thinly scattered from the Quebec border to the St. Croix River. You can buy a small farm very easily -- heck, you can buy a *large* farm very easily. Some parts of the territories used to be active farming areas. Permitting is handled by a state agency, the Land Use Regulation Commission (LURC), but regs are fairly loose. there was quite an uproar a few years back when a Quebec company wanted to build a hog factory on unorganized territory up north, but the locals managed to persuade them it was a bad idea.

As for gun laws, we don't have many. Lots of guns, tho -- I've read that Maine has the highest per-capita gun ownership in the Lower 48. Maine is a shall-issue state, which means if you want a carry permit they have to give it to you, providing you don't have a criminal or mental record. Background check required. I think they still require a safety course. The State Police handle permits for the UT.

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), January 26, 2001.

Hi Bob, We love it here in Northeast Tennessee. The towns have permit ordinances, but the counties have few. We live in Carter County and the only permit we need is for septic. We can build anything we want wherever we want. Sure there are some trashed places, but our place isn't and we don't care about those other people. They are usually renters who move out quickly. Mostly, everyone keeps their places nice.

Don't forget to consider the weather also. Living in Maine you are probably used to quite severe winters. If you want milder weather try NE Tennessee. We have all four seasons and it does get cold, but not the constant snow some other places get. You might want to check out www.bestplaces.net where you can type in your criteria and find the place for you. That's how I decided on Tennessee when moving from California although I used the book instead of the web site.

Tennessee is a conceal carry state. Anyone (with some exceptions like felons) can get a permit. Also, no restrictions on shooting in your backyard in the counties. We have a regular range set up for our own use.

-- Mary in Northeast TN (barnwood@preferred.com), January 27, 2001.

Bonner county, Idaho. Last I heard, we have no building permits, as the county commisioners did away with them.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 28, 2001.

Dear Bob, Mary in North East Tennesse is right, it is beautiful. We live in north central Arkansas and places here are "trashy". One of the things that has always impressed us when we travel to NE TN, is that everyone \'s place is so neat, I'm not saying fancy I'm saying well tended. There are many OLD homes{100yrs +] that still loke neat and weather proof, again not fancy. That is not true here. If the LORD ever sends a buyer our way we are out of here and headed for the Roan Mountain, Tn area. Good luck on your search, Artie Ann

-- Artie Ann Karns (rokarns@arkansas.net), January 29, 2001.

Bob, we are in New Hampshire, and will probably also be moving to northern Maine when we sell our place here. We've been looking at it seriously for several months, and my husband made a short trip up there in late October, and liked it. We are looking near Houlton, as we want to be near a good church, and a farmer's market. Greg asked the realtor he was talking to about building permits, and was told that they were pretty loose. They were basically implemented to stop people from buying acreage, putting one trashy trailer on it after another, and basically harboring criminals and criminal activity. I guess there must have been some specific problems that caused the regulations to be enacted, from the sounds of it. Anyway, it didn't sound like we would have any problem at all doing the things we want to do, including building from scratch with no mortgage, and no utilities. (That was our main concern anyway). We are looking north for climate reasons, otherwise some of the other areas mentioned might be better (Maine isn't a low-tax state.) If you do decide on northern Maine, though, we'd be interested in corresponding with you. We would actually like to find several families with similar needs so we could buy a larger acreage and split it.

-- Kathleen Sanderson in NH (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 29, 2001.

If you are interested in Maine, check out the book (from 1940's) called "We Took To The Woods" by Louise Dickinson Rich. True story of homesteading adventures. She wrote several books on their life there. Still in print in paperback.

-- Anne (HT@HM.com), February 01, 2001.

Carroll County, in NW Arkansas, has no restrictions on building out in the county; except you need a perk test for septic if you have under 10 acres, last I heard. There's not much soil here except down along the creeks. Don't know about guns but used to have neighbors that shot theirs whenever they felt like it and it was okay with the sheriff. Good luck.

-- Denise (mudstraw@yahoo.com), February 05, 2001.

Dear Bob, Lincoln County, MT does not require any residential building permits. Only Electric from power company and Septic permit from the County Sanitarian. I have a 3 BR 2BA home for sale on 7.5 acres near the town of Libby, Montana. I will carry a contract to a qualified buyer through a local title company. The house was built in 1985 and is a cedar sided vaulted ceiling style with 1/2 story loft and full daylight basement. It is located in an isolated area about 4 miles from town. If you would like more details please contact me anytime. Best regards. Bonnie Smith

-- Bonnie Smith (planning@libby.org), July 10, 2001.