I.Q. Tests

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While reading the responses to the personality test thread, I was reminded of an on-line IQ test that I took a year or so ago. Has anyone else seen/heard of these? My question is one of accuracy. The personality test seemed pretty accurate, I wondered if the IQ test was also. Any thoughts? Any links to known accurate tests? Thanks in advance. John

-- John D in Pa (mrmopar@penn.com), January 20, 2001

Answers

Got tested for this stuff a lot early in life. I don't know for what purpose it is, really, except to stratify the population. The only thing I found interesting was to see what one's IQ is vs. some imagined IQ of historical personalities, and then only for laughs. I have found street smarts to be as beneficial as brain smarts, and I don't know how you measure that concept.

Anyway, IMHO, knowing IQ scores can serve to make people feel inadequate or smug, depending. I don't like 'em. Especially these days with parents clawing their way to get their kids admitted to Harvard before getting them out of first grade....don't need any more fuel for that kind of fire.

As to the accuracy of the tests, last I heard they were so culturally biased as to be questionable anyway. But what do I know.....

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 20, 2001.


IQ tests are based upon norms around the country. I find that few IQ tests are an accurate measure of reliability or validity. The WISC is a commonly used test for IQ. But I'd like to point out that often times these tests are culturally biased or biased for individuals with certain disabilities. I recall the big scandle over the IQ tests yrs ago when the minorities found that they were testing lower because the test questions were biased. i have no faith in the current IQ testings and think the entire current tests used to determine a individual's personality, IQ, etc are worthless. Thats just my humble opinion. They pigeon hole folks and create even more issues than solve.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001.

You mean all those years the teachers and everyone were screaming at me that I was too smart to act so dumb could have been a LIE??? The tests were wrong. Now maybe I can be smug??? I wasn't so smart after all and they were all wrong. Geesh, and most of them are all dead since I am so old. Sometimes lifes little pleasures just slip you by. I totally agree, most tests just measure someones preconceived idea of what "should" be measured. So to bad they don't all give us a break and give it up.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001.

For what it's worth - Marilyn Vos Savant addressed this in one of her recent columns, stating for the record that on-line IQ tests were absolutely useless for determining intelligence and were often inaccurate and so on. Don't know if this helps, but seems about right to me. I mean, come on - I could put on of those up on a web page and make the whole thing up from scratch, and if I did a good job of faking credentials, no one would be any the wiser!

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), January 20, 2001.

Strictly for amusement a couple of years ago, I took an on line IQ test. It was much different than the one I had taken in high school and I had a lot greater confidence of an overall correct score. The test was much more diverse than the previous one, which seemed to me to be about half algebra, which I disliked with a passion. Math is fine, just not algebra.

Anyway, my resulting score was one that I felt was an accurate one.

Since taking the test I've recommended it as amusement to others, but have always cautioned them strongly against comparing the score to anyone else for the very reasons many of you stated.

My daughter took the test, and not remembering that I had asked her not to reveal the results, she blurted out what her score was. Now just like a chip off of the old block, papa is proud, we scored identical scores. When I showed her my score she was amazed and pleased at the identical scores.

Accurate or inaccurate it doesn't matter. What does matter is that it provides some amusement, and does make one stop and think about all there is to know and to learn. As a result of the test, I've taken to brushing up or learning more in my weak areas.

If your family members do take the test, please don't let siblings compare scores. Let each think they are superior to the other. lol.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), January 20, 2001.



I was told that doing word games will increase your IQ.

-- Cindy (SE IN.) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001.

This is a tough one. I teach science to sixth graders, and I see test scores almost every day. I also see many very smart kids and some who are dumb as fence posts. I promise, you don't need test scores to know the difference. You do, however, need the scores when you call Mom & Dad in to tell them how dumb Johnny is.

I reject the notion of cultural bias in the scores. It may have been a small problem at one time, but test companies have been working for twenty years to produce tests that are free of bias towards race, culture, and gender. They employ blacks and women whose only job is to disqualify any question they deem biased. Yes, blacks and other minorities continue to score lower as a group than do whites and Asians. Those folks were denied equal opportunities to learn in the past, and they still place little value on learning. There are exceptions, but minorities are mostly more interested in entertainment than in intellectual growth. As a group, they consistently disrupt class, fail to do homework, and miss class much more often than whites.

If you are interested in taking a bias-free test of cognitive ability, contact Mensa to take their admission test. It is designed to test anyone's abilities regardless of age or education. This is a different process from testing achievement as the SAT and other tests in school do. Schools are interested in what a child has learned, so they can hold teachers, students, and administrators accountable. Mensa is only interested in ability. "Smart, not educated."

Tests are a necessary evil. They are not always valid (testing what they are designed to test), they are not always reliable (testing the same things in different versions), but they are often the best means we have of evaluation. I'll bet anyone having heart surgery wouldn't criticize medical schools for giving stringent tests to surgeons. Why are we so reluctant to demand excellence from other people? This fear of damaging self-esteem is dumbing down our society.

I await the firestorm from those who will brand me a bigot or a fool. I am neither. I teach because I see the need. I work hard to help all my children succeed. I quit a $70,000 a year job to teach, but the students and I are happy. I've walk every day through the valley of the shadow of death. You can't scare me.

-- Jim (catchthesun@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001.


Jim, I'm glad you said that. We do have to test in order to know whether people are learning...I have a black friend who gets IRATE when he hears people say things like schools are culturally biased and geared towards white people. He takes it as an insult, it's like saying that he can't compete on the same level with a white man. He's a computer programmer in LA and was raised in the "swamps" of Florida. He rocks.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 20, 2001.

I don't see anything wrong with measuring *performance.* After all, one way or another, the world will be testing your performance all the time! So measure performance and provide test scores (for students AND teachers) and any other jobs which require certification! Absolutely!!!

As to bias, I haven't read much about IQ stuff for years, obviously. I indicated in my post, "as far as I knew...."

I do happen to object to using IQ scores as a way to divide people. I tested high on IQ tests, was moved up in school grade-wise, and had to live up to the expectations placed on me from then on. Sometimes that was good, sometimes not. Other kids were *merciless* in giving me grief for being skipped ahead. So what if I was intellectually "superior," I was definitely way behind in maturity. I got over that eventually just by growing up, but with a *lot* of scars. I sure hope my tormentors grew up too.

I still run into people who somehow think they are "special" just b/c they have "high" IQs. Let their performance qualify them, not just some special IQ performance score. It's just another attribute. Lots of other people can be just as, or more creative, more compassionate, more perceptive. And better adjusted!

btw, My IQ scores varied as much as 10 points at different times when I was tested. I imagine today, I would be lucky to hit the high double digits, the way I have abused myself over the years! How smart do you have to be to raise sheep?!!! LOL

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 20, 2001.


John, to be accurate,a test has to be valid (consistently measure what it is supposed to measure) and reliable (gets accurate results each time it is administered in an exact manner). Usually standardized tests are the most valid and reliable. Standardization occurs through repeated testing and evaluation of a tool. My hunch is an untitled internet IQ or personality test would not be that accurate, although they can give you a general idea about yourself and can be a lot of fun to take.

-- Amy (acook@in4web.com), January 20, 2001.


Okay, here we go puttin a hitch in the gittyup! I have to tell you this though......I taught for 4 years (k and 1st). The teacher that taught in the grade above me took the tests home with her. She had changed a lot of the answers when she had brought them back!! I wouldn't have known this except that I saw her doing part of the erasing! When they had to be tested in the next grade, all of a sudden their scores had dropped!! That really messes up the standardization! Sorry to bum you guys, but I hope that it is not a wide spread problem. I only saw it this once and it has made me think ever since! With so much riding on a teacher's performance being judged by testing...........Hmmmmm! I approve of the need for monitoring our teachers. They need to find a better way. If it had only been used for the children's benefit I am wondering if she would have felt the need to cheat! Not much honor in cheating, HUH?!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), January 21, 2001.

As a giver, taker and user of IQ tests I have lots of opinions. That IQ stands for intelligent quotient is a misnomer. It is not intelligence that is measured but rather what you have been taught and your ability to talk or read. A person who is nonverbal cannot be accuarately tested above the level of a 5 year old even though he may be more intelligent. Intelligence is impossible to measue accurately in animals for this reason and tests given to nonverbal people often result in "this subject could not be tested but the following assumptions can be made about his abilities...". Dont put too much faith in the ability of anyone to measure something as abstract as the ability of another person to learn. Measuring what we know when what we are assuming is our ability our ability to learn is not the same thing. While IQ tests may be all we have, they are neither a true picture of intelligence or a final verdict on the ability of anyone to learn fom his environment.

-- Norman and Susie Stretton (nightsong@beci.net), January 21, 2001.

IQ is that some sort of new beer?

-- hillbilly (internethillbilly@hotmail.com), January 22, 2001.

hello

-- mo mo (shaggy@mounet.com), February 08, 2002.

Son, 15, just took an IQ test on-line and placed at above 150. (Doubt if it was any good.) Good thing I took it too and placed at the same level he did. Wish I could stick him with a pin in a strategic place, though. That guy is a psychological blimp at the moment.

Nan, for what it's worth, this area is proud of our schools, and my nephew tells us that his teacher TELLS the class what some of the answers are on tests!

I homeschool.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.



Read The Mismeasure of Man by Jay Gould. I really think IQ tests are hogwash. If you are having a bad day, maybe have a headache or missed breakfast, you can look really dumb. What's really bad is when teachers use IQ tests to lock kids into academic boxes. My mother taught K-3 for years & saw that happen.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), February 09, 2002.

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