Building Permits

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

What are some of your thoughts on building permits? I became so furious that I just totally stopped gittin em. The last staw was when I put in a sewer drain that ran from my house under the street. They gave me so much trouble and eventually lost my paper work. I got so mad I started the project anyway tossed the red tag in the garbage and finished it. I thought I was in trouble but nothing happened!! I'm really not a rebel but I figure they need to catch me before I pay. So far 10 years and 2 homesteads later still no problems. A friend said that if they made everyone comply the county would have a terrible homeless problem so they don't bother until someone complains. What do you do or what do you think?....kirk

-- Kirk Davis (kirkay@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001

Answers

Oh, don't get me started on this! I have a strong feeling that this is one place that the erosion of our rights in this country is there for all to see. They have outlawed people building their own homes in so many places and require most people to pay a fortune for something so basic as our shelter, which most folks think must be built by someone who is paid to deal with the codes. Funny, I was just thinking about this when I logged on.Fortunatly, most counties are too under staffed to keep after all who want to build, but I have to admit that I feel we should be able to sign a waiver saying that we do not want them protecting us from ourselves and leave us alone! I can imagine that around Nevada City they must have fairly strict code chasers; I know it depends on where you live.

-- maureenb (firegirl102@hotmail.com), January 20, 2001.

The argument the planners make is that they aren't protecting you from yourself. They are protecting some poor innocent buyer from becomming endangered by your mistakes, somewhere down the road.

I've proposed that, this being the case, why not make inspections optional? Then, if someone doesn't feel comfortable buying an uninspected place, they don't have to. Put the inspection in with the deed.

By the way, where I live, they recently decided to pass an ordinance making a "statute of limitations" on this type of "violtion". After twenty years, you no longer have to sweat it.

Also, the codes enforcement person only investigates violations which are brought to her attention by a complaint from a neighbor. And even then, she has to be able to see the violation from the road, and she only goes after the most "dangerous" violations--mostly raw sewage running onto the ground.

And lastly, after many attempts to "work it out" with you peacefully, she generally has no recourse but to take you to small claims court, where the largest possible fine is $3000, less than the cost of all your permits, sometimes. There's only been two or three cases ever where the county has talked the district attorney into taking someone to court over a land use violation. One they won, and one they lost because they screwed up the paperwork..

JOJ

-- jumpoffjoe (jumpoff@echoweb.net), January 20, 2001.


I could also voice, "Don't even get me started on this!" I wrote my big special projects thesis on Building Permits as a senior in college (25 or so years ago.) I wish I had kept it to refer to what seemed outrageous to me *then*! I just cannot believe not only all the regulation, but also the attitude of some of the bureaucrats as far as taking their own sweet time to get around to doing their jobs! GRRRRRRRRRRRR.............

We just went through a process involving our local jurisdiction, and I won't bore you all with details, but what was essentially told to us was that it would take 2-3 weeks to process our request. Now, we aren't totally naive, but thought that maybe a month or a little more would be reasonable. I think 9 weeks later, we finally got moved out of one part of the process. In the meantime, we were oh, going broke and arguing about money every night b/c we were having to pay the interest on our project. But the folks making their salaries and spilling their coffee on our blueprints weren't around to see us at home every night, so why strive for efficiency?

No lives were at risk, here, folks. Just some normal humans trying to work within established regulations to make the world a supposedly better place. Yeah, right...

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 20, 2001.


My personal thought is that building or improvement permits are just a way for the county to keep up to date on your taxes. They know who's added on etc. and can justify tax increases. We moved to the Ozarks to a place that requires no permits and has no codes! It's amazing but folks here seem to get by just fine without them. I mean you don't see people dropping dead from plumbing problems or electrocuting themselves. I guess it is one of the big differences in being very rural. Kim

-- Kim (fleece@eritter.net), January 20, 2001.

I've done a number of improvement projects. Some I get permits for and some I don't. There are several things you need to be careful about. Two areas in particular are generally not up to the individual counties, but are under state jurisdiction: electrical (Department of Labor and Industries in many states) and septic (Department of Health). The state has a bigger hammer than the county. The other condsideration is your insurance and liability. If you do your own wiring without a permit and a faulty connection causes a fire and the place burns down, your insurance carrier may not cover your loss. What you save in money, time and frustration, may mot be worth losing the value of your home. I got a permit for my new barn because I feared prosecution from the county building department. I didn't get a permit for any of the other work I've done because I felt it was small enough to not be noticed. You really need to be careful in most areas with the new environmental laws. If you run afoul of the environmentalists, you could find yourself paying heavy fines and paying for habitat restoration and mitigation. (I recently did some clearing and grading in an area that I know the county biologist would claim is a wetland. I hired an independant wetland biologist, the best in the county, to walk my property and write me a letter stating that the area is not wetland, but a seasonal man made pond and drainage ditch.) You have to be careful to pick your fights. Comply with the laws where they are reasonable or where non-compliance runs a high risk of prosecution or financial loss. Otherwise, I say, "what they don't know, won't hurt them." This land is their land, not ours anymore.

-- Skip Walton (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), January 20, 2001.


I think building permits are a form of taxation without representation. Just a vehicle to provide some undeserving (and often incompetent)person (s) with a high paying government job. If it was not for this little scam then they would have to go out and get real jobs.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), January 20, 2001.

ED, the trouble is we have too damn much representation. Those folks would be better off minding their own business, rather than others.

Some make the argument zoning is gov't taking without compensation, which is specifically prohibited under the Fifth Amendment.

-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 20, 2001.


I've got a good one. We put in an above ground pool and had to get a zoning permit, electrical permit and a BUILDING permit. The zoning and electrical I can understand but a building? And, it had to be inspected when we were done by all three departments. I agree that I think they just wanted more money.

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), January 20, 2001.

What did I do about it? Moved to West By Gosh Virginia.

-- Sam in W.Va. (turnip55a@yahoo.com), January 21, 2001.

The permit situation is what has made it neccesary for this old house I live in to have a composting toilet, and a (shh!) grey water pipe that drains into a big old fish pond that leaks so bad the ground gets all the water before the concrete hardly gets wet! Becasue of the stupid permits, we can't even get an o.k. to hook up to city sewage, for all that I have to pay for it with my water.

We just about can't do anything here without somebody poking thier nose in it. I live on a more or less main road, and folks have been looking at this house for so long, that when they see something going on, they just naturally call on us (or the police) to come and check up that were not doing anything to make it fall down! They even stopped by when I was out building my rabbbit hutches to make sure I wasn't doing anything to the house! (I was working up against the North side, which faces the road)

I can't wait until we have a little more money saved and can get out in the boonies again.

-- Marty (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), January 21, 2001.



I have a question for anyone willing to answer, I recently purchased a house that had a hot tub in the back, it was busted and so I went about fixing the plumbing and rearranging the (new) pump, heater and such. I went to get a permit they said that I cannot have a hot tub that has been made, I have to have one that plugs in and is UL rated? There is an exsisting 220 line so I really don't even need a permit to do that, I jsut wanted to please the county. my question is, can I treat my hot tub as a accesory if I just wire it up to a plug? I will follow all the safety procedures and I am an engineer so I am capable, I just don't want to have to shelve out 3000 to replace all that I have done so far.

-- Daniel Flippo (flippoborn@pobox.com), September 19, 2001.

Daniel, do you have any pictures of your house showing the old one in place? Some areas are much more forgiving about replacements than about new construction.

Also for the sad but true file: in Davis, CA you are supposed to get a permit to replace your garbage disposal.

I agree with the person who said you have to pick your battles. Whether you choose to comply or not, try to remember that someone (like your heirs) will probably have to sell your property at some point. Most lenders will not let you buy without an inspection, and if your buyer is looking at VA or FHA funding, stuff that looks like it is not up to code can cost you a sale. Some inspectors/buyers even go so far as looking in the records to see if proper permits were pulled. If your heirs are not living in the house, usually even in a disclosure-happy state (CA comes immediately to mind), they can sell it "as is" after your death with no disclosures. On the other hand, if they have lived in the house, they are assumed to be cognizant of these things and are therefore responsible if the house burns down due to faulty wiring that wasn't disclosed to the buyer. Just something to think about.

Finally, I think that if you can do the work in a professional manner, it will not be caught in an inspection. It's when you do a sloppy job that they then come after you, because it gets people suspicious about where else you cut corners.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), September 19, 2001.


First project on our 5 acres is going to be a storage shed. The good news is the county now has a special permit for outbuildings where you don't have to go through any inspection, plan review, etc if you sign a waiver stating the county is not responsible for what results. Just have to be 100 feet from a lot line and 43 feet from any other building. I can handle that.It's been a long time since I experienced less regulation.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), September 22, 2001.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ