The most important question ever (who/what is a Christian)?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread |
It appears that there is some question as to who/what a Christian is. There's a real simple thing to answer that question. If you have ever prayed these words:Dear God, I know I am a sinner, I know I have done and thought horrible things. I cannot work out my own salvation. I am lost. I know the story of you as flesh in Christ Jesus and that you have come to earth and provided a way for me to spend eternity with you. I believe and accept the sacrifice you made for ME by taking the sins of the world upon yourself and being crucified by men to save them. I believe you were resurrected and triumphed over death so that I might spend eternity with you, I thank you for this gift and I ask for you to come into my heart and take away my sin. Thank you, Jesus. Amen
or something quite close to it and meant it with every fiber of your being, and been filled with a hunger for the Word of God and a desire to please Him instead of men, you are a Christian, if not, you are only fooling yourself and not God if you "think" you are a Christian.
So then, if you have prayed this prayer and MEANT it, you are now a part of God's family. To find out what you should do in your new life, find a Christian group and share your new found faith with them. Any Christian forum or any one on this forum that you KNOW is a Christian. And most of all give praise to God for saving you from eternal seperation and hell!
-- Peter (peter@christisking.com), January 17, 2001
So what if you've found God on you're own, celebrate God whenever you see a new rose bud, or a seedling breaking out of the ground...or pray that a family member will get home safe, and he does...you ask God to help with money, or a crop, or whatever, and of course, He comes through, like He always does...and you celebrate Christmas, as a true celebration for the true birth of the son of God, and then you meet a "Christian" who tells you that you are a heathen for not going to church, for not tithing, for not refusing to let your cows scream in pain for not being milked on a Sunday because it breakes the Sabbath? What about the fact that I plant 2 different plants next to each other....read your bible...I could be in big trouble for that if I believed in the old testament..But where the Big question comes down, the way this forum has been going lately, it it doesn't matter if you believe in God, and all the goodness God has bestowed on us, or how much you thank God, or believe in God, it has something to do about "accepting" Jesus...you can't just believe in Him, you have to "accept "him before before God, and give witness to all the sinners who only pray to God, and not to Jesus. And if someone you love and count as your friend, know would always be there for you, and never did anything against you,You have to cast them out of your life and condemn them to go to Hell, and live with Satan. This is NOT the Christianity I grew up with, and I cannot believe all these nasty people on the forum have suddenly decided that they know peoples minds and have the right to say who will or will not go to Hell...last I knew, only God had that right, and Jesus could only kibits....Rose Red
-- Rose Red (rosered@aol.com), January 17, 2001.
Hey, I want to claim the "post". I apologize for any offence and can't even begin to describe how it got here, but the prayer is a real one and the New testament takes away living "under" the law.You are right, God will judge you and not me.
I posted this after some prayer and also wanting to give a real answer to how you become a CHRISTIAN, and what the salvation message was. It isn't by going to church, or thanking God for something like not breaking your back when you fall of a ladder. I went to church every week for the first fifteen years of my life and never heard about salvation. I thought maybe someone would like to know how you do it as this is a "how to" place. Also it's the first time I have ever used the threat of hell in a post, but it is biblical.
My mistake was that I did this anonymously, not that I did it. But my timing was atrocious. I really am sorry for all of the turmoil here, and I really don't want this to bring out more. Consider it another rash thing I have done here, being a good example of a bad Christian, and let it go if you could please.
There isn't any need to fight over this, is there? We do all know where we stand and I apologize profusely for being rash again. Please show how mature we all are and let this rest. I am ashamed enough of how even when I counted to ten before I hit submit I still acted too quickly. I was really hoping I could get the first post on here after I had already done it, but circumstances wouldn't allow it. Please, let's not fight.
-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 17, 2001.
Rose Red,My answers to those legalistic Christians who condemn other for not following the Law are to point out if they follow the law, the Bible says they must follow the whole law, are they planning on inviting me to their next calf sacrafice? If they can't follow every tittle and jot, they are the ones condemed under the law. We are ALL condemned under the law, that is why God sent His only Son, to FULFILL the law. All things are permissable, not all things are good for you and the Holy Spirit will convict you of that which you should stay away from. Perhaps new Christians need to be under the law to appreciate Christ's Salvation from the law?
There are certain Old Testament passages where God tells us various actions and people and things are an abomination to Him and we are to have nothing to do with them. I do not believe these things ever became permissable under the New Testament.
There are so many lost people who call themselves christian who have built a Mr Potatohead idol from their own intellectual persuits of taking what they like from many religions and rejecting that which may make them uncomfortable or call for them to give up selfism.
I didn't read anywhere in Peter's post that to be a Christian you had to follow the letter of the law. Following Peter's advice will free you from the law.
I am so very sorry that the Christians you know are so legalistic as to be oppressive and to cause such bitterness. My prayer for you is to truly know the freedom in Jesus Christ. For against the Fruits of the Spirit, there is no law. Peace, love, joy, longsuffering......
-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), January 17, 2001.
Why don't you jesus freaks give it a rest. Don't you understand plain English - post warnings.Maybe you just like to fight? You have almost ripped this forum apart once, but failed. So are you renewing your effort to destroy this place?
-- JLS in NW AZ (stalkingbull007@AOL.com), January 17, 2001.
It takes two to have a fight.
-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 17, 2001.
Ditto to JLS, but nicely. Please put (Christian) after the title of your post where appropriate. Thank you. Sandy
-- Sandy in MN (jpevans_56353@yahoo.com), January 17, 2001.
Yes religios should have been put after the post , but lets be adults .After the first 2 sentences you knew what it was about so don't continue to read.Why are some of the people replying so angry , do you have inner peace ? Is this what you act like at work when someone says something you don't like ? You don't have to read or agree just be kind .
-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), January 17, 2001.
Patty, thank you, Doreen, you're not a bad Christian, just a little over zealous. You know how satan loves to mess up doing right.They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength, they shall mount up with wings as eaglesthey shall run and never faint. Teach me Lord, Teach me Lord, Teach me Lord to wait. Teach me Lord to wait.
-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 17, 2001.
I think if half of the "Christians" who are praying for someone else, spent that time praying and trying to change themselves instead, the whole world would be a lot better off. It is funny how it is so easy to concentrate on trying to convert everyone else so you don't have to work too close to home. I would love to see the "got to convert everyone else Christians" spend one year of every time they think of converting someone else, instead they take a step to change something they are doing wrong in their own life. Wow, what a different person they would be. And how much better the world would be. We wouldn't have to listen to them proselytizing to us. This remark is not intended for the ones that just talk about the blessings they have received from their Christian life. I don't have a problem with those people. I happen to believe in Christ myself but I don't buy the interpretations of the bible that some people have. I believe through love of your fellow man and being a living example of what Jesus taught is how we bring people to him, not by beating people over the head about what "they need to do". If we clean our own house (I'm not there yet) and serve as an example, we will be following His teachings. Hope you figure this out soon Peter.
-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), January 17, 2001.
Doreen- it's ok.And you explained yourself well. You and I,and others,can "step in it" some times.Don't take any offense from anything posted.I like it.I actually think its ok, but I don't get terribly bent out of shape on either side of this issue.I think it's just pure silliness to be forming sides along religious factions.Personally,I'm private about me beliefs.Oops,that's one of my beliefs.Slipped out somehow.Take care
It's just some raw nerves.
-- sharon wt (wildflower@ekyol.com), January 17, 2001.
Hey Doreen, you have shown alot of courage to confess your mistake and take resposibility for it....what more could someone ask? I, for one, appreciate your honesty! You have shown courage and character....that which we all strive for! God Bless! Wendy
-- Wendy@GraceAcres (wjl7@hotmail.com), January 17, 2001.
Ditto Wendy and Colleen. Thanks Doreen! Laura,I still chuckle when I think of the Mr Potatohead image.
-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 17, 2001.
Doreen, you know what your mistake was? Not putting a category on your post. You're not the first person to use a fake address and won't be the last. I never have but who cares? The problem on the other side is , they just don't get it. YOu remember the Word says that satan is the father of all lies and deceit. He's doing what he has set out to do well. The harder and faster someone runs from something, the harder and faster they run into it.
-- Cindy (SE IN.) (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 17, 2001.
HI everyone,I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior,that fortunately for some, and unfortunately for others makes us brothers and sisters :)So i feel I need to say my bit, and then I will never say this again.It is difficult to walk out our lives before men in this anonymous"forum"way.We need to get our houses in order,we need to be pruned,purified and refined.We need to be ready to give an account of the hope that is within us.We need to be ready to feed the hungry,the bread of life.When someone is ready for the answer ,they will ask the question.These people are not asking,and all that is being said and done is merely vaccinating them against hearing the word when they will need it.A brother offended is harder won than the gates of a fortressBuild friendships based on what you have in common.If you believe God is who he says he is,and the Holy Spirit is who he claims to be ,let them do their thing,all thats left for you is to love.Doreen your a sweetie luv ya ...teri
-- teri murphy (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), January 17, 2001.
OK everyone, take a deep breath. Doreen had the decency to come back on and explain her post. So what's the problem? For goodness sakes, she apologized for the confusion. Hey Doreen, most of us know what a sweetie you are, so just let some of the comments roll off your back. And here's a little Irish saying for ya.....May those who love us, love us
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts,
And if He doesn't turn their hearts,
May he turn their ankles,
So, we'll know them by their limping.
Keep your chin up, we all love ya!
-- Annie (mistletoe@earthlink.net), January 17, 2001.
I borrowed this from another board and post it not to stir trouble but perhaps to begin anew. It offers another perspective. PEACE!"Begin with Love"
I was thinking about the matter of conversion. How does one introduce someone to God?
Begin with love. Why start out by telling a person that they are bad, imperfect, sinners, broken, unenlightened, or (shudder)...doing the work of the "Devil"? Not a great way to win over an audience. People want love, comfort, and asuredness of themselves. Many feel broken, imperfect, and uncomfortable already. So, why not start out with Love?
God loves us. Most people can agree on that, and most people would like that to be true. Now, it's true that I personally feel comfortable believing that this is because God loves self, and I am part of that self. Every one here to Timbucktoo (sp?) can disagree with me. That doesn't change the message, the message being, "There is love for you".
Salvation is the main goal of Christianity. It's what a Christian hopes for as the effect of conversion. I say, leave the salvation to Christ. Introduce Christ through teaching his love, and a person is more apt to accept him. That's it! That's how it's done! No need to agree on biblical interpretations, or even (gasp!) agree on the very nature of Salvation, Christ or God! This is what I mean when I say, "Don't hold salvation hostage. Salvation is for every one". By the way, this idea doesn't just apply to Christianity. Both salvation and Christ can be substituted as appropriate. I personally don't think much of labels.
Now, I suspect that people are uncomfortable letting God do the rest of the work. We're so jittery, aren't we? Human beings have a hand in everything nowadays from genetics to bottling water. We feel the need to step in and see something all the way through. Never let anything run it's course. It might go bad and bite us in the ass.
You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.
Guess what though. God can. If we don't have faith in God, then we can't do "His" work. Sometimes we simply need to let go, surrender and observe. The sun continues to rise and flowers keep on blooming with no help from us.
Love IS a gift. Whether perfect or imperfect, it's the best tool we have.
perplexia
COOL Huh?
-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 17, 2001.
Doreen, thank you for the thought, and thank you also for your second post. I think both were very sweet, and it's too bad that some took offense. I have enjoyed your posts in the past and look forward to hearing alot more from you in the future.John Leake, very cool post! Thanks.
-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), January 18, 2001.
Great post John. I believe that there are only two driving forces behing the emotions that we as humans have, Love and Fear. Whenever you feel an emotion, good or bad, sit back and think, is this coming from love or fear? It is surprising to realize that anger and other negative emotions are fear based. It is not always easy to figure out what you are fearing but if you think hard enough and analyze your inner person, you will be surprised to discover your fears. They could be from fear of rejection, i.e. not being part of the in- crowd, fear of failure, fear of being different, etc., etc. The more we examine our hostile and negative emotions, the more we can change them to love. When we master our ability to always remain in love, we will have succeeded as a human being.
-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), January 18, 2001.
I appreciated Doreen's post.Colleen, in response to your suggestion that people ought to pray for help for themselves before they pray for others, I have another take on it. We had not ought to be thinking about ourselves at all, but about others. If we study the Bible regularly, believing, and attend a church that teaches the Bible, God will work in our hearts to change the things that are wrong with us, but we had not ought to be focused on those things, nor on what is *right* with ourselves, either! I am not saying that we should be praying self- righteously, "God, help old so-and-so, who isn't half as good as he/she ought to be," but we do need to ask God to help others to find Him, and to help them grow in Him, and pray for the needs and hurts that other people have. The less there is of ME in my prayers and in my life, and the more of GOD, the better.
-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), January 18, 2001.
Kathleen, sorry but I disagree. To me that is just not accepting responsibility for who we are and how we act. There is too much of that in our country already. (i.e. oh, it is not my fault that I killed those kids, I was abused myself as a child, etc., etc., etc.) Until we look at ourselves and do something about the kind of person we are, the world will continue in it's downward spiral.
-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), January 19, 2001.
Kathleen, I believe that once someone accepts Christ they art then in the Church. I also do not believe that one has to "Find a Church that teaches the Bible".The Bible itself through the Holy Spirit is the teacher. Going to a building of believers is not necessary to ones salvation although some may feel obligated to attend there. Hebrews 10:25 says "Let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves together AS IS THE CUSTOM OF SOME", but it does not say that everbody has to show up at some building or gathering. John the Baptist was not a regular attender yet Jesus said that John was greater than Elijah.The Bible does teach this though," Love worketh no ill ti his neighbor, therefore Love is the fulfilling of the Law".
-- David (cadge@earthlink.net), January 21, 2001.
"Love worketh no ill to his neighbor, therefore Love is the fulfilling of the Law".That is it in a nutshell. Thanks David.
-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 21, 2001.
Oy vey!!
-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), January 22, 2001.
Rose, it is not hard. Though it may seem so. First, you have to believe, beyond human comprehension That the "walls" you see confining you, only exist, in your comprehension. You and I can exist, outside the Walls, and I am taking up "stake" to drive down the wall. Born Red-Neck, and we are really not Heathens.com
-- My Story (andIam@sticking.com), January 23, 2001.
Peter:You state: "Dear God, I know I am a sinner, I know I have done and thought horrible things. I cannot work out my own salvation. I am lost. I know the story of you as flesh in Christ Jesus and that you have come to earth and provided a way for me to spend eternity with you. I believe and accept the sacrifice you made for ME by taking the sins of the world upon yourself and being crucified by men to save them. I believe you were resurrected and triumphed over death so that I might spend eternity with you, I thank you for this gift and I ask for you to come into my heart and take away my sin. Thank you, Jesus. Amen or something quite close to it and meant it with every fiber of your being, and been filled with a hunger for the Word of God and a desire to please Him instead of men, you are a Christian.... Isn't this a bit simplistic? Isn't more than just believing required? In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will." (Matthew 7:21) To learn how to do God's will we need to make a careful study of God's Word the Bible, of which 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 tells us, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for discilplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." After we make such a study, we will be equipped to show obedience to the will of God. -Ray
-- H. Ray Battels (hray@kansas.net), April 21, 2001.
Don't worry , be happy.....peace jz
-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), April 22, 2001.