We are different. [Religious]

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We are different, but we are also the same. As for me I will continue bring Christ with me wherever I go. I am sorry, but I cannot comply with the request in the former thread. Thank you for the gifts you have given me. The paths to understanding are often crooked and long. God bless you all. Here is my other cheek. Luke 6 22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. 23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. 24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. 25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep. 26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. 27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), January 11, 2001

Answers

I'm with you, sister.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 11, 2001.

Amen and amen.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 11, 2001.

That says it all, doesn't it? Thank You. I am glad you posted this.

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), January 12, 2001.

Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all! They know God, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools: instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. And so God has given those people over to do the fithy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other. They exchange the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen. Romans 1:20-25

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 12, 2001.

Just for clarification little bit- this scripture is posted for you, not for THEM. What you are doing on this forum is not what Christ has commanded us to do. In fact quite the contrary. He told his disciples that if they will not receive you that you are to wipe the dust off of your feet and move on. God is in charge, or do you really doubt that? If he turns them over what makes you think that you are going to do anything except make it impossible for believers to participate here. I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL. I would die for my savior, WITHOUT A WEAPON. What I will not do is stand by quietly while his Word is slimed over and over in places that it is truly not welcome. I have e-mailed you privately over and over and never received a response. Hoot has tryed to do it gently. Jesus told us to be angry and do not sin. I am angry, I hope this is not sin but I think all gentleness and tact has been used by believers and non-believers both. GIVE IT A REST!!!!!

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 12, 2001.


Thanks for posting this.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 12, 2001.

THANK YOU DIANE !!

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 12, 2001.

I guess I figured out the question I have...if His Word (meaning Him as well) is NOT welcome here...then should we as Christians have anything to do with HERE? (ie. what communion does light have with darkness?) Maybe all of us Christians should leave. Then people would be able to think what they want with no restraint and beat up on Christ and His gift without any fear of reprisal or being "bothered" by hearing the name of God. I'm rather certain that His name would be more of an expletive if we weren't here.

Good day to everyone. I will leave like John wants. Have fun and thanks for all of the learning experiences you all have afforded me. I've learned the most from those with whom I have been in furthest opposition with. I have been bolstered and encouraged and made to go running for my Bible by both Christians and none Christians. I guess this is like finally walking out the door of an abusive relationship. it hurt's but it's better this way.

I cannot keep the most precious thing in the world in a box and not annoy all of with it. Sorry. Thanks to all of the pagans in the thread following this. I will be back to print that out for a prayer list addition. I appreciate having all of your names in one spot. It helps, sometimes I am not the most organized person on the planet.

I pray that God continues to uphold and encourage all of the Christians here and that His Word will touch those who are hostile to Him. Bye Bye Now.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@excite.com), January 12, 2001.


hmmmmm. I have to agree with Diane on this one. I cannot imagine that there is anyone left on this forum who has not heard "the Word" from all of the Christians. I too believe it is time to stop preaching to those with deaf ears, and focus on being good examples of love. If someone chooses to respond to an obviously Christian topic and has questions, then sure, enlighten them about the love of Christ. If we respond to a topic with an answer that mentions our love for the Lord and the others object, I guess they will just have to put up with us!As I said in a previous thread, our mandate from God is to witness, not to castigate. God is the One who opens minds to Him, not us.We are to tell the world about Him, not try to shove Him upon folks.Just as we are not responsible for other people's decisions to reject Christ, we are also not reponsible if they accept Him..HE IS! Have you read the thread concerning "pagan homesteaders"? Here are a bunch of folks who are kind, gentle, nature-loving people with good hearts and I am certain the God loves each and every one of them. It makes me very sad to know that they do not know the Truth through Christ, and I will pray for each and every one of them because they NEED our prayers. What they do NOT need is our condemnation and our anger..yes, the Word says "No one goes to the Father except through me." Yes, we believe that all who do not know Christ will perish for all eternity..how horribly sad for those good people. Jesus commands us to "love one another as I have loved you." so, lets show love. Let's pray...and give glory to God for the work that HE will do in them. God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 12, 2001.

Diane,

I understand what Little Bit is doing. She is saying that as much as they ( folks who protest) have the right to choose not to accept we have the right to talk about. And we are supposed to talk every where, anytime, anyplace. The Word is not only for the church building. And what she is saying is not falling on deaf ears or hard hearts only. I hear her and appreciate, Doreen hears,Cindy hears, ect,ect,ect.

All these complaints about marking posts. This one IS marked as were a few others. And still some find it necessary to protest. We will NOT be silenced.

And as far as trying to convert, as it was put by some on other threads. If you saw someone fixing to walk off a cliff, would you say something or would you just let them keep walking?If they didn't want you to say it would you just stand there and not say? Could you?

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), January 12, 2001.



Little Bit, Could you please post the address for the Christian homesteading site that you mentioned in another thread? I looked but could not find it again. I think I have to agree with Doreen on this one. Little Bit, Hoot and Doreen, I admire your courage. The Bible says "stand firm or you will not stand at all." You have done that admirably.

-- (trigger@mcn.net), January 12, 2001.

Doreen,I understsand your hurt ,but it is not you that has been rejected,it is Christ .We are to die to our flesh and live the light that is within us.You cannot love them if you leave the room,you cannot witness if you are silent.Our error is in that we cannot minister to these people cuz they don't live next door,and they for the most part don't see how we live.If they did it would be easier for them to see Jesus.Because we do not have that opportunity to walk before them we have sought to make it up with our speech.God sees them through the finished work of Christ,just the same as he sees you and I.Wether or not I am doing right He sees Christ.Christ calls them lost.I will not deny my Jesus as He has not denied me,but I will not offend the lost and be a stumbling block to the one thing that can save them.LOst people think and act like the lost.I thank God for the people who loved me,when I was ,broken,obnoxious,and LOST.I hear your heart but lets just love em ,and let God sort it out .WE follow Him,but we cannot convict of sin,that is the JOb of the holy spirit.We are called to loveLove seeks not it's own.I really struggled this past few weeks I love you all,and do not want to cause any hard feelings,but I needed to say my piece.These are fine,fine people lost and found and no-one should leave hurt.I think some of the so-called non- Christians put us to shame,by showing understanding,and compassion where we show,judgement and intolerance.I will pray that the holy spirit increases our ability to put on the mind of Christ and humbles us all.LOve and stuff...teri

-- teri (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), January 12, 2001.

It's interesting that on the pagan thread everyone is getting along. On the Christian thread we are breaking apart. What is the Bible verse someone mentioned, maybe Cindy, that we are all in different walks, so we should be tolerant of other Christians' ways. It looks like our house is divided, I don't want to see us fall.

-- Lena(NC) (breezex4@go.com), January 12, 2001.

Doreen: First, contrary to what you suggest(by putting words in my mouth I never said or even suggested)---I am not asking you to leave nor are others. We've had our tiffs in the past and in the midst of one now but you have as much right to be here as I do.

Once again, a glowing example of the presumption I've referred to before "(ie. what communion does light have with darkness?)" I take that to mean the fundamentalists are the "light" and the rest of us benighted souls are the "dark"? Do you see anything wrond with that picture?

I'm gonna address the rest of your post, piece by piece. Your words in quotes. "Maybe all of us Christians should leave." When you say "all of us Christians" you are addressing yourself to Sheepish, Diane, and numerous others who don't share your specific views about Christ and Christianity. Are they Christians too?

"Then people would be able to think what they want (So, in other words, if you had your way, miss liberty lover, we wouldn't be able to think what we want?) with no restraint and beat up on Christ" I don't recall hardly anyone ever "beating up" on Christ. Several have expressed their dislike of the fundamentalist mindset however and the numerous flaws implicit in the attitudes displayed by them. I do recall several discussions about interpretation of what His word means however, and I've repeatedly made the obvious observation that its very unlikely that any of us are entirely correct in our spiritual beliefs considering how many Christian denominations there are, each with differences.

"and His gift without any fear of reprisal or being "bothered" by hearing the name of God." You give your self far too much credit thinking that "fear of reprisal" will silence those of us who you don't agree with. Please note, almost without exception, those who you disagree with are pretty consistany respectful of your right to believe what you want---they just don't like the methods.

"I'm rather certain that His name would be more of an expletive if we weren't here." You assume too much Doreen. Thruout all of our battles on this forum I've rarely heard anyone use Jesus or God as an expletive and its not for fear of "reprisal". Its out of respect for your right to believe as you will and tolerance, for the most part, of that right. We are willing to deal with God on judgement day so why not let it be?

"I've learned the most from those with whom I have been in furthest opposition with. (Seriously, what have you learned from those in opposition to you?) I have been bolstered and encouraged and made to go running for my Bible by both Christians and none Christians. I guess this is like finally walking out the door of an abusive relationship. it hurt's but it's better this way." This sounds like a bunch of self pity to me.

Consider this Doreen. Each day you get up and start berating your hubby for real or imagined errors. You say "You ignorant SOB, can't you ever get anything right? You're as dumb as a box of rocks and you need to change your ways. You know I'm right so get with the program! This is what the book sez and I say this is what it means!" Every day its like this. Finally hubby grabs you by the shoulders and sez, ENUF! Who's the abused party? You say, "I tell you this hubby because I'm trying to help you." Hubby sez, "I don't need that help." You say, well, you're gonna get it anyway cause its obvious you need it.

"I cannot keep the most precious thing in the world in a box and not annoy all of with it." Actually, you can. Sheepish does. Diane does. So do others. Are they actually less devout or sincere as Christians than you? Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

"Thanks to all of the pagans in the thread following this. I will be back to print that out for a prayer list addition." I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

"I pray that God continues to uphold and encourage all of the Christians here and that His Word will touch those who are hostile to Him." For the umpteenth time Doreen, its not the message, nor the messenger, its the method and the presumption implicit in the action thats offensive to many.

Merely because someone has a different philosophical or spiritual outlook than you does not mean its a cry for help or "saving". Save those who ask for help and pray for those who don't.



-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 12, 2001.


Dearest Sisters,

I pray all Christians will stand together here. I don't think it's right to let them run us off, and if the Christian element is gone this forum would lose a lot for me. It's encouraging to me to not feel alone in the homesteading sense, but much more important to have the fellowship of Christians. (Please, Doreen, don't leave. You are the one I look forward to reading the most.) I learn from all of you, and agree with both sides of this issue. I think there is a real "casting of pearls before swine" in many cases. The seeds have been sown and those who "have ears to hear and eyes to see" will come to HIM if it's His will for them to do so. I believe living the example and standing in the gap is what's left for us to do here. We are here to share in homesteading information, and God is a big part of that, but showing loving kindness is one way to represent Him. I see where non believers have irritated us so that we want to react by shoving God down their throats. But we know that never has or will work. It just gives Christians a bad name and drives the lost further away. I'm not as eloquent as most of you, so I hope I haven't said anything that offends. It certainly wasn't intended to do so. I just wanted to call you all to unify because "a house divided can not stand." That would only give the non believers the wrong representation of what Christ's love is all about. PS. There have been many posts, esp. the population discussions that I have had strong feelings about, but all the points I had on the issue had been made by you, so I saw it was futile to express myself by the reactions your posts made.

Love in Christ,

-- Nancy in CA (sonflower35@icqmail.com), January 12, 2001.



I would miss any and all of you if you decide to leave the forum. We are so much greater than the sum of our parts.

I'm going to write one more animal analogy and I'll make it short. My Nubian wether, Roy, is a sweet, docile guy most of the time. I would never consider getting rid of him. But lately, he has become pretty aggressive, and pushes into me (not quite butting) when I'm trying to open a gate or something. And...if I try to push back on him, he pushes even harder (because it's his nature.) So, I have learned not to push back on him, but to gently turn his head a bit, and we eventually work things out. I get my way by not pushing back on my goat, for whom pushing back is just how he gets things done. We have worked out a better arrangement than continually pushing.

There's an old Chinese saying that says that in a windstorm it is better to bend like a willow than to stand and break like an oak. I am strong in my faith, but I see no need for martyrdom here. It's just folks communicating on an internet forum!

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 12, 2001.


Please e-mail me for the address at: littleBit@compworldnet.com

Thank you to all who understood, what I was trying to get across.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littleBit@compworldnet.com), January 12, 2001.


I am new to this forum but a long time reader of Countryside magazine [about 26 years]. When I first got the mag. I never thought much about whether it was Christian focused or not, it was about homesteading and that was what I needed info about. As time went on I began to think that no Christians ever wrote to Countryside or if they did they didn't get published. Still it was about homesteading and that was what I needed info on. I dropped my subscription when they went "slick" [those of you who have been reading Countryside for a long time will know what I mean]. I would occasionally pick one up at the newsstand if there was something of particular interest. About 5 years ago I re-subcribed. I was pleasantly surprised to see letters from people who openly stated that they were Christians. And I have been very pleased to see the many posts from Christians. But this thread is awful! It is one of the reasons people say "well, I've seen how Christians act and I don't want any part of it".

What's wrong with giving our Lord creidit when the opportunity arises and let the chips fall where they may. We don't have to try to convert someone to our specific way of believing, we can just express our belief when the time and subject is right and not be ashamed. If someone is interested then they can e-mail us privately. This battle on line is embarassing. Christ only berated the Pharaisees and then not very much, just called them jackals and let it go. He mostly told people what they needed to be saved and went about His way caring for the poor and downtrodden. I think those who are true Christians have read their Bible and they have a relationship with Christ. They need to be encouraged in their walk and prayed for that Christ will continue to be working in their lives and that they will be willing to let him. Most doctrine is man's idea and a real source of aggravation. Just love the LORD, He'll teach you and he will send the people to you that he wants you to teach. Most of that will be by example. And not by beating people over the head with scripture or picking apart everything a bother or sister has said. Show some compassion.

-- Artie Ann Karns (rokarns@arkansas.net), January 12, 2001.


OK I'm confused. What happened here? Countryside is a diverse magazine covering many subjects. It seems most in this thread has shared knowledge on this forum. So how did this collection of kind neighborley folks get into a religious argument? I recall that in the early days all faiths including Athesist got around the old wood stove and had at it. No hot tempers just passionate discussions. Nobody left, nobody ran away. Everybody had their say and after a cool glass of water went back to everyday chores. How can we do less?

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), January 12, 2001.

You know, Ken, I have been thinking sort of along those lines. I realize it's a lot easier to quit a forum than it is to move off a farm, so if we were all real neighbors, would we be having this problem? (whatever this problem means to you all...)

Do these same folks who are having such a hard time of it here also have problems with their neighbors in real life? I don't get it. My neighbors would never answer their door if I felt like I had to tell them the Gospel all the time. Then who would watch my animals when I go on vacation?

I guess, related to the "stepped in it" post, this truly isn't the real world, because it just wouldn't work. So maybe if we think of this as "not the real world" we can stop taking this all so seriously.

Back to the barn....

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 12, 2001.


And btw, if my neighbors were coming over here telling me about Amway or why the Income Tax Laws were illegal, or whatever all the time, I wouldn't answer MY door either. My point is not particularly about Christianity, but rather that persistent or obsessive conversation can damage relationships.

Now, really back to the barn.

-- sheepish (WA) (rborgo@gte.net), January 12, 2001.


Really nice post Artie(sp?) I don't think anyone here is trying to run anyone else off. The problem tho is that there is a problem.

As I've suggested elsewhere on this forum, there should be some kind of happy medium that meets all our needs.

The Fundies complain, with cause, that they're shown no tolerance and their freedom of speech is being limited by those of us who object to being preached at at inappropriate times.

The others, myself among them, complain, with cause, that any, even incidental, philosophical or spiritual comment gets jumped on and corrected by the fundies. That person gets put on the saving list.

Little Bit announced, she will not be silenced. I've said as much for myself. I've suggested one compromise which was rejected.

Here's another: Threads not clearly labeled as religious, philosophical, spiritual or even Fundies only etc should be off limits for anything but topical stuff. Freedom of speech requires some self restraint. Thats just the way it is.

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 12, 2001.


I haven't read all this yet, but... Doreen, I'd hate to see you leave, but would understand, I'll keep you posted if you do. I considered leaving, but I ain't yet. Woudln't satan love it if all of us Christians left. It was a hard lesson for me to learn (if you only knew)but a soft answer turns away wrath.

-- Cindy (atilrthehony_1@yahoo.com), January 13, 2001.

I am having a hard time with this .I feel we should all be able to express are religous beliefs .I don't have to agree with you or you with me but we should respect each others views .I guess I 'm hoping for to much "that is for everyone to act like adults "If a thread is marked christian and your not don't read it ! End of story .Would it be so hard for some to skip over the word god,christ or jesus ? I used to think of us as a family .We didn't always agree , but we were usually kind .

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), January 13, 2001.

My apologies to brothers and sisters in Christ whom I offended in my previous post. Offending you was not my intention, I just truly felt that the Word of God was being wasted on the people here who were rejecting it so adamently. I would ask for your prayers for me and my husband as we seek discernment for God's will in our life. Thank you and God Bless you all. I would have posted this on the new Christian forum, but I basically am feeling out of place there since I so obviously offended so many. I hope that whatever lurkers from the Christian forum there are here, that they will carry the message back to the others.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 13, 2001.

My Grandfather was a southern Baptist Minister . My Dad was a Baptist Minister . I have a strong Faith in GOD . I found the Pegan thread interresting and informitive . And it seems to me some of the people in this thread did not get some of the Folks meaning over there ! There were some very good points made and not just folks who did not beilive but had problems with labels and what some people feel is wrong with organized religion . Look at the things that are going on in some of the houses of the Lord these days , One point of my own , For most of my life I had the Rapture preached to me to only find out through study on my own that the word rature (never)is mentioned in our Bibles . Is this not adding to the scriptures ? what is said in Rev: about this ? I will quit rambeling but I have enjoyed responces in each thread . I am happy we all can state our feelings and belifes because there is only one Creator and who says who's teachings are right . We will all find out come JUDGEMENT day

-- Lee (sgrmtndrone@yahoo.com), January 14, 2001.

The term rapture is discribing an event clearly talked about in the Bible. I don't believe naming the event in any way "adds to the Word". imho

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 14, 2001.

diane, "offended"? please go back and reread the posts..mine quite clearly (I hope) said "I agree with diane on this one"...I certainly cannot speak for others, yet it is my firm belief that the vast majority of Christian homesteaders who have opted to visit the new site hold the same view...to continue to present the Word to folks who do not want to hear it is not what Christ would have us do. Being able to have a Christian homesteading forum gives us the freedom to discuss our faith, our failings, our praise, our ministries, without offending others, without having to be tempted to sin in response to hostile postings, without having to be careful to avoid vulgar jokes, blasphemy, etc. etc. etc. There are several folks who, like me, will continue to visit this forum to click on strictly "how to" postings..there are some who will opt to fully participate in both forums (as well as others), and yes, there are some who will not return here, at least for a time. ALL Christian homesteaders are welcome to share at the new site. I cannot imagine that you chased any one of us away from Countryside by your postings, especially me because I fully agree with your view regarding how Christ would have us witness. Please drop in....there's a nice cup of fellowship waiting for you! God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 14, 2001.

Oy vey!

-- Ardie from WI (a6203@hotmail.com), January 15, 2001.

I for one enjoy spiritual commentary / conversation as I see fit. The key phrase there "as I see fit". There is no reason to feel vilified by anothers' spirituality.Simply leave it alone.My personal spirituality need not be discussed here except to say that I believe it rather self centered for anyone to commit to eternal damnation any of those that don't see The Creator in the same manner as themselves. Suffice it to say all the worlds major religions, Native American,Hindu Buddhist, Christianity etc., set forth with certain tenets ( do unto others etc.) that are amazingly similiar both in context and the fact that they are too often overlooked in the quest to be "right". A solidly spiritual person of any faith is still in fact a solidly spiritual person

-- dan (dcbaker@2ki.net), January 16, 2001.

Amen Dan!

-- john leake (natlivent@pcpros.net), January 16, 2001.

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