my 4 month old daughter has tried every formula from isomil to nutramigen, and behaves colicy no matter what. Friend suggested goat milk, meyerberg brand powder, dr. says not good , no iron etc. Any opinions on this matter or any prior experience with goat milk as infant formula (note breast feeding not an option unfortunately)

-- keith a davidson (mouyposmoniksi@netscape.net), January 10, 2001

Answers

You can get the Dr. to give you some liquid iron supplements to add to the milk, or some other form. Goat milk is wonderful for lots of things, have you tried soy? If you buy it fresh I'd pasteurize for a baby. I never gave mine goats milk as infants, because I breast fed full time till they were 12 months old. If you don't mind me asking are you sure you can't breast feed, sometimes the Dr. can give you a hormone shot to bring your milk on if the baby is adopted/fostering, well I've heard this, I never had a problem with that, haven't personally experienced it, but heard some people have done it. Some babies are just colicky, no matter what, but this to will pass! Blessing and good luck!

-- Carol in Tx (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), January 10, 2001.

Since I don't know where you are, I am not sure if fresh pasturized goats milk is available for you. That would be my first choice for your infant. We have provided milk for many and infant over the years that has a colicy problem and it has usually helped.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 10, 2001.

Keith, this is my pet peeve!! Doctors will give you information to use the synthitic forms of milk, and how do you think the iron and vitamins get into formulas? It is put in it. So put the iron into the goat milk!! Even when I breast fed, the doctor still gave me baby vitamin drops to give to my children. If you do not have access to clean fresh pasturised goat milk, than the Myerburg brand is fine. Is this your first child? You will learn quick enough that doctors with opinnions that differ wildly from your own, and who will not work with you are a dime a dozen, find a new doctor! Very little iron in cows milk, which is what he will have you wean her to, infact there is very little of anything in homoginized, ultapasturised cows milk, except the vitamin A and D that they add!! Without a strong milk lobby for cows, very few folks would drink the stuff! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 10, 2001.

I had a similar problem with my youngest daughter. Any formula I tried would constipate her so badly that I had to use suppositories on her. The doctor suggested goat milk. To try it out I bought canned evaportated goat milk and watered it down. It worked! ! I was nursing her, but I couldn't leave her at all and she was going on a year old. I bought 2 milk goats and she (and her cousin the same age) lived on goat milk until she was 3 and could tolerate cow milk by then (we also moved to town and had to give up the goats.)

You can add whatever supplements you might feel that the baby needs. Goat milk is much easier to digest as the fat or protein is smaller - boy is my brain fried at the moment. There are some good goat people on this board and someone can give you those details.

Oh, BTW, this daughter is now 18 barrel races and is an honor student. Her cousin is a strapping football player.

-- beckie (sunshinehorses@yahoo.com), January 10, 2001.

Ihave 6 children, ages range from 14-8. All of mine were premature and had reflux, so could not breast feed do to choking so hard when barfing down my front and up on my face. (not to mention this was not fun for me) Anyway, I tried all the formulas on the market, even had a prescription with my first one. Nothing worked (even after reflux surgery) so I went to the store, bought canned goat milk, mixed according to instructions, told ped. that I was doing this, she told me how much iron to add. We had their iron tested regularly as I tend to have more iron then I am supposed to have. and they all did great!!! I have moved to the country and am waiting every so impatiently for a milk goat. I have pygmies, but I need the milk now..they are only 6 mths old. So...I keep looking in the paper and hoping to get a good goat for milk. If I was giving fresh milk to a baby, I would pastuerize it just in case. All 6 of my children thrived on goat milk where with all the formulas, they were still not growing good. go for it!! :-) The gas-x for children also works great for those colicy days when nothing else helps. I would also drop a few bits of candy cane in the water bottles to ease colic.

-- Cindy in Ok (cynthiacluck@yahoo.com), January 10, 2001.

I've heard of lots of folks using goat milk on babies with great success.

I would be careful of soy, though. I guess there's some evidence that it inhibits calcium uptake. Also, I think about three-fourths of the soy in this country is genetically modified (I could have my numbers wrong), and there's some difficulty with the availability of protein.

This is an interesting article that earthmamma, I believe it was, posted earlier: http://www.westonaprice.org/ploy.htm. It has more about soy.

-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), January 10, 2001.

I am just curious. Could it be all the iron and stuff that is put in formula makeing the babies so uncomfortable? If I take a multivitamine with iron it gives me a stomache ache, not to mention a head ache. Just a thought.Why not goat milk like it is?

-- Bonnie (josabo1@juno.com), January 10, 2001.

I have seen organic infant goat milk formulas in health food stores. I'm told it is easier for infants to digest than cow or soy-based formulas. Re: iron, human breastmilk is also low in iron (baby lives off her own iron stores aquired at birth until about 6 months), so if you were breastfeeding your baby wouldn't be getting much iron from you either! Don't let the MD's comment turn you off from trying goats milk. You can give baby foods with iron once she starts solids (e.g., rice cereal with iron). I breastfed my children and my daughter was low in iron at about 6 months. We supplemented with liquid supplement but ended up dealing with it with diet.

-- Amy (acook@herbed.com), January 10, 2001.

RE: soy, it is also thought the phytoestrogens in soy aren't good for infants and children.

-- Amy (acook@herbed.com), January 10, 2001.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Updating the situation, I tried the goat milk for two days and it seemed to be a regression from the barely tolerable results the Nutramigen was giving. I agreed with all on the iron issue. Time is now my only hope.My wife is frustrated as our first two had zero feeding problems. THanks again, keith

-- keith a davidson (mouyposmoniksi@netscape.net), January 10, 2001.

Keith ,I tried to send you and Vicki the stats on goat mlk content,took me half an hour to scan and there was a failure delivery.Anyway,Per 100g of goatmilk 2%,contains 1.0mg iron where human is.030 and cow is.05Fresh fluid goat milk is the best substitute for breast milk but should be supplemented with 50mcg folic acid 3 times weeklyIt is by far the better choice to cows milk based formulas.There is a strong link to diabetes in children who where on cow based formulas,I know I did the research.My son is our only non-breast baby,who was cow allergic we did not know he was .He is type one diabetic.Vicki is dead on ..we live in a time when big money is put over our health and the health of our kids.COW PRoPAGANDA.I know i might catch it for this post but what else is new.I am a doula and the info on goat came through my organization.If any one would like it send me your snail mail addy or a alter.e-mail

teri

-- teri (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), January 11, 2001.

I used to recommend goats milk ALL the time for babies in my practice...the other postings are correct about the folic acid...a MUST for goats milk. I also used to put these kids on a simple vitamin/iron drops , especially in the winter months because prepared formulas have added vitamin D and growing infants need vitamin D...as long as the baby has 15 minutes of good sunlight exposure/week, they are getting enough vitamin D..by the way, that is cumulative exposure, not all at once.Most folks in Medicine who do not practice in the "country" do not know squat about goat milk and are afraid to agree with something they know nothing about. There is really very little in the medical literature regarding using goats milk, and most medical people find it lets them off the hook if they stick to recommending commercial formulas beacuse there is quite a bit of research available on them for reference. I once had a Pediatrician call me and ask "Why are you telling women it is OK to use goats milk when you cannot point to a specific study about it?" I informed her that my "study" involved thousands of babies over 25 years. When i asked her why she did not recommend it her response was "I don't know"....go figure...Vitamin supplements, especially folic acid and D and goats milk is quite good to use..God bless.

-- Lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 11, 2001.

Keith,

Sure sorry your having so many problems. This is all I know from personnal experience (more of less!) I had to stop having milk of any form from age 3 monthes to 6 monthes before I could have even soy milk again (I had jell-o water). I drank goat milk only when I milked in my teens, and it's been the only milk that didn't make me have stomach cramps. (I'm lactose intolerent) I don't even use much today. I also have a nephew that just turned 1 a few monthes back, and they finally found out that he was also lactose intolerent. He'd always been fussy, growing badly, and constipation that only allowed movement once a week.

If nothing works, you may want to see a specialist, or just try something else for a few days. Fortunite for me, my daughter could have my milk, and cow's milk, o.k. thus far. I sure hope you find something.

Shalom.

-- Marty in KS (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), January 11, 2001.

This is just pretty much what everyone else has said but I have to put in my 2 cents worth anyway. When babies are born they have a store of iron that lasts about 4-6 months. Breastmilk is very low in iron, but, fortunately, babies start to get very interested in table foods long about this time and since they always seem to want to breastfeed when you sit down to eat this all works out. You just be sure that what is within their reach on your plate as they sit on your lap is something they won't choke on. Dark leafy green vegetables are very high in iron and if you don't tell that baby that greens are yukky they will gobble up chopped steamed spinach like there was no tomorrow. So, why not give the goats milk as is at this point and just start making those foods high in iron available to your baby as "finger foods"? I would skip the commercial baby foods...GROSS! I never used them and recently went to a baby shower for a friend's daughter and they played a game where the label had been removed from the jars, everyone was given a spoon and pencil and paper and then the jars were passed around and you had to taste and then write down what you thought it was. Without a doubt this was the most awful tasting stuff I have ever had in my mouth. GOD help the babies that are fed that stuff. I don't see how it could even have any nutrition in it. The American Academy of Pediatricians says that milk is the best food for your baby for the first year of life. Just feed them the food you eat when they need something alse and use common sense, mash it up so they don't choke. Go for the goat milk, I think it is liquid gold and absolutely delicious!

-- Artie Ann Karns (rokarns@arkansas.net), January 12, 2001.

keith, I sure hope your daughter is doing better now. It is so nerve- wracking to have your baby not thriving after trying everthing possible. I raised my last 2 sons on goats milk, unpastureized, since there was no money for that and doing it on the stove is risky. the goats were tested for tb and Bangs but the rest of the family had been drinking the milk for years with no ill effects. But, I would recommend the pasturized milk. One of my good friends grandbaby had major problems keeping any type of milk down and we gave her fresh goats milk too and she stopped vomiting and started growing and was a different baby, smiled, cooed and well, just felt better. The iron can make anyone have stomache cramps if given on an empty stomach, ask your doctor or any nurse. Good luck with your baby.

-- karen (kansasgoats@iwon.com), January 13, 2001.

Thanks again to those who posted replies and suggestions. The last few days have seen marked improvement. The nutramigen may be working now or who knows but I thank the good Lord for whatever it is. We do have a few goat milk farms in the area, I have decided if this trend of peacefulness doesn't last I may try some fresh goat milk as opposed to the powder i tried that didn't seem to work.

-- keith a. davidson (mouyposmoniksi@netscape.net), January 14, 2001.

Iam anew goat owner (herder) I need to know how to go about pasturization. Please send info as soon as possible,thanks

-- denise davis (neezer61@hotmail.com), April 18, 2001.

I know generations of folks that have been drinking milk straight from the goat with no processing. I don't know what that junk is in the supermarket that they call goats milk; it doesn't look or taste like it! -G-

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), April 20, 2001.