GOP won by planting seeds of deception -Enjoy!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread

http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/ebert14.html

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), December 14, 2000

Answers

Talk about instant mis-history. Ebert claims nothing was really counted, and that the "deception" was the GOP claim that counts actually took place. But we KNOW this is deceiving, because Bush got more votes in these counts, which therefore must not have taken place! Ebert has absolutely no problem with any other state, where (with the exception of New Mexico) only one count was performed, and THAT one by machine. By Ebert's logic, NO counts took place ANYWHERE. But of course he somehow neglects to mention this.

But that sneaky, lying GOP somehow managed to convince the public that votes were counted in Florida. Apparently they did this by somehow tricking all the news media into reporting on BOTH counts that were done of the entire state, in huge detail. Talk about sneaky!

Ebert, your guy got fewer votes in Florida. Not by much, to be sure, but fewer votes. That's why he lost. Don't let sour grapes blind you, man!

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), December 14, 2000.


Two thumbs up Ebert's arse hole.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), December 14, 2000.

Flint,

Not to mention that his claim -- that the Bush team worked a "meme" on the American people -- isn't borne out by the facts. As far back as November 11 (the earliest I bothered to check, the polls have consistently shown that more Americans have believed that Bush won the election. Who, precisely, was the "meme" intended to "convert?" :)

(The Nov 11 CNN poll showed that a majority of Americans believed that Bush was the winner, in fact. A Newsweek poll done about the same time showed similar results.)

Now, Ebert could make a case that a small majority of Americans wanted a fair recount down in Florida just to be sure. That much is true. But I'm not aware of any major poll, from Nov 8 forward, that ever said that a majority thought that Al Gore won.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), December 14, 2000.


How can anybody think that gore on this thing? He lost plain and simple, so get over it. I'm sure that nobody will have a problem saying president Bush for the next four year especially if you could say president Clinton for the last eight. If Al Gore would have won without all the recounts and court battles I would have grited my teeth and call him Mr. President but after all the shit he tried to pull I couldn't have even thought of thinking of him as the president.

-- Bosco (Bush@whitehouse.com), December 14, 2000.

the rise & the fall---of the american--empire=stay tuned!!!

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), December 15, 2000.


Bosco,

There, we differ. I would have disagreed with the method by which Al Gore won, but I would have supported him. The country deserves that.

Much the same that many Democrats disagree with how Bush won -- but have decided, for the best of the country, to support him.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), December 15, 2000.


Ebert drinks colloidal silver every day!

-- Barney Fife (barneyfife@aol.com), December 15, 2000.

Call me biased, but I think it interesting Ebert even into memetics.

Problem here is the article involves a major meme, so we get the flack from the Flint's and Poole's who are infected.

Hell most still think the machine counts...THE count. No, they were a tool used in determing THE count. Found to be unreliable historically in close elections and by the 3 canvassing boards Gore requested to manually count their ballots in this election(they found the same truths about votonatic systems). These decisions were confirmed by the two machine tallies which were off by 1200 votes.

The manuals began and Bush called foul. He thought the 3 person jury system rigged. He didn't like it and ran around the State's authority and laws. Like the good little pandering Republican he is to the Feds to "make them stop". In the process stretching the whole deal out to the point this alone, ended any real hopes we will never have anything out of Florida but two machine tallies showing Bush was ahead when the count was suspended.

The Meme in question *I* have coined the PalmReader Meme. It plays on the chad issues. It plays on folks holding punchcards up to the heavens. It basically says 3 judges cannot do what a broke machine can. This is the gist of the Meme. At the core however is the misconception THE count started and ended with them machines. It did this time, but in direct conflict with the laws and spirit of such in place in Florida before all the chads began hanging.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), December 15, 2000.


and as a qualifier, I don't give a hoot who actually won, THEY did, and WE all lost as usual.

Now the butt-kissing and brown_nosing begins anew. "Oh me and GW are going to meet over tea"..alboring "I think Al honarable and if I were him I would have fought hard too"...dubya.

Can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't meet with GW Bush in a zillion years if I were Al Gore, would you? Main reason we get these jerkweeds everytime, phony as the day is long.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), December 15, 2000.


"but after all the shit he tried to pull I couldn't have even thought of thinking of him as the president."

Bosco-you said the above. To what exactly do you refer? And in your answer, stick to fact and not allegations. As far as I know, Gore has not been indicted for anything, or convicted of anything.

-- SydBarrett (dark@side.moon), December 15, 2000.



All of this is interesting, but it ignores one important fact. Gore had over 300,000 more votes than Bush. Were it not for the electoral college, Bush wouldn't be President. Bush has to be intimidated by that fact and it's bound to mark his presidency. After all, the time to start planning your re-election campaign is while you're still in office. It's going to be a strange four years.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), December 15, 2000.

Syd and Stephen,

To be totally honest I think after the machine recount had been completed if Gore would have won I think bush would have conceeded. I really beleive that, then I would have thought of Gore as our president. I wouldn't like it but thats what I would have to do. The shit that I'm refering to is using jessie jacksons race card to say that blacks were not allowed to vote.

-- Bosco (Bush@whitehouse.com), December 15, 2000.


Here is a question. Can a President just quit?

Have a hunch Junior never wanted this gig(pop and all).

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), December 15, 2000.


>> Can a President just quit? <<

Yup. Nixon did it.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), December 15, 2000.


Tarzan:

I'm sure the entire campaign would have been waged differently if the EC weren't there and popular vote directly picked the President. But in that case, those millions of absentee ballots would have been counted that now never will be, because they can't change the majority in any single state.

In Florida, absentee ballots went about 2-1 for Bush. If this is true ONLY in California as well, then the popular vote would be for Bush also. We may never know. But you can't wail about "uncounted votes" in Florida, and then carefully ignore all the *genuinely* uncounted votes nationwide, and expect to be taken seriously. You must be more consistent.

Doc Droolie:

Yes, Stephen and I are infected by the meme that facts matter and should be taken into consideration. I've long noticed that you are utterly free of this infection, allowing you to gabble nonsense free of the unpleasant feedback reality normally provides. How ever did you "cure" yourself?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), December 15, 2000.



Flint-

Can you provide evidence that any state didn't count absentee ballots?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), December 15, 2000.


Easy Flint, understand fully what you suffer from, being lost in one's noodle.

Look, TWICE in a week(at Poole's) you have been caught using UTTER LIES to construct your "arguments". First you bad mouthed Anita saying "every county in Texas voted for Bush"---LIE. Then you bad mouthed Trish with "Voters in Florida don't know their voter registration numbers"---another LIE.

You are doing and building arguments not IN reality. You are doing what the Y2k doomers did. Cept this time it is not whatifs, but whatdids or should havebeens.

There were rules and procedures in place before November7 in Florida. No kidding they were far from ideal(whatever that is), but they existed. Gore followed them, or tried at least. Bush and co claimed foul and had sitting legislation rewritten by the USSC. Maybe understandable if these laws were truely illegal. They weren't as the FSC found twice. They were vague and far from ideal(not debatable), but if allowed to proceed they would have been OK.

I trust in the jury, in 3 independent folks to decide what the VOTE was. Your programmers mind demands certainty in an uncertain world run by dumb humans. Lesson is, you are not perfect, welcome.

-- Doc Paulie (fannybubbles@usa.net), December 15, 2000.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ