The twins both gave me a scare last night , woke up w/ 105 fevers. I gave them over the counter meds. and baths which helped but would like to know what natural herbs or such would be good to keep on hand. I am taking them into the doctors today because the fever keeps coming back before it is time for their meds. again.I was so scared last night! dad had the other 2 out shopping for oldests b-day today ,so I did not have the car to take the twins to the doctors and i almost panicked ,big time. I am hopeing there is something to keep on hand just in case,And at what temp. should you worry? I know fevers are sometimes good to kill the virus. Thank you

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 04, 2000

Answers

Peppermint tea is wonderful to reduce fever. Please be alert for the possibilty of febrile seizure which can happen when the temperature rises quickly. These are not dangerous, but can scare the heck out of you. I would definitely have a doctore look at them. Do they have any other symptoms?

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 04, 2000.

Been there, done that! I also had twins. They're now 9. How old are yours?? When they were small they liked to spike those fevers for me. My daughter had one as high as 106.2!! I don't know what natural herbs you can use as I have always used Children's Tylenol. You can sit them in a cool bath to bring their fever down. I always hated doing it, but it works well. Don't use cold water, but a little on the cool side. Sit them in & sponge them off. When you take them out, let them sit & shiver. Don't bundle them up as that holds the heat in. I would just put them in their diaper & let them sit in that. I always hated to see them shivering & looking so pitiful, but it does bring the temp down. You're right about a fever being good for a virus. When they're running a fever, that's the body's way of fighting that virus off.

-- Wendy (weiskids@yahoo.com), December 04, 2000.

Thank you lbf,no nothing else seems wrong,today they have alittle of a cough not bad tho. This winter has been hard on them,sick all the time.I am going to get an air filter for the house today or tonight and see if that helps,my others were never this sick and I do not know why these 2 are,They were premies but only by 5 weeks,low birthwieght but I nursed them until 7 mon sole and started them on 1/2 formula 1/2 breastmilk till9 mon them just formula. Now that they drink cows milk they are always sick always. I may take them off or cut way down and try soymilk instead.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 04, 2000.

I'm shooting from the hip here and going off of memory. I believe there are herbs in what is called "feverfew". Check it out. I'm at work or I'd do that for you.

-- Pat (pmikul@pcpros.net), December 04, 2000.

Hi Renee, I second the peppermint tea, and would also recommend echinacea, hyssop, and honeysuckle. These may be available in your area as tea which small children like with lots of honey. Feverfew isn't used for fevers, but for migraines or uterine problems. Personally, I don't treat fevers, as they are the bodies way of killing the offending bacteria, but 105 is awfully high to ignore. If the dr puts them on antibiotics, be sure to give them acidophilus to replace the good bacteria that the antibiotics will kill. If I may give some advice regarding the cows milk, by all means get them off. Cows milk is not a dietary requirement, definately try soy or goats milk. Also, while they are sick, try to feed them only fruits and fruit juices (with no sugar added) or raw veggies if they'll eat them. Bacteria feed and reproduce rapidly on sugar. Hug them lots, and tell them your friends from Countryside are praying for them :-) Julie

-- Julie (julieamc@excite.com), December 04, 2000.

Renee Bless You I know how scary this can be I have a GREAT BOOK that has helped my thru many childhood illnesses.(How to Raise A Healthy Child) by Lindon H. Smith, M.D. I would sure recomend this book for emergencies.He tells about a warming wet socks treatment that really works Here goes (This treatment woks beautifully in helping treat infections,and is usually used at bedtime. As it is an immunestimulating treatment, circulation and white blood cell count are both increased. Soak the childs feet in a hot bath for ten minutes, then wet one pair of cotton socks with cold water. Wring them out, put them on the feet, and immediatly cover with a pair of dry wool socks. The wet socks are uncomfortable for only a minute, but by morning the body will have heated up the socks and dried them. )He also says to give a child form one year on to seven years of age 1000milligrams of vitimen C every hour during waking hours..If the next day the bowel movements have turned sloppy, one can assume that the dose of vitimen C is the saturation amount. then the dose can be reduced to 1000 milligrams every 2 hours. .Here is more handy info. If the fever is reduced by a degree or two an hour and a half after taking tylenol ,this implies that the disease causing the fever is not serious and doing nothing more then giving fluids by mouth along with the vitimen C and an occasional sponge bath is all that is nesssary. Rubbing Alchohol mixed with an equal quantity off water is a good fever reducer when spread all over the body and allowed to evaporate. Vaporization removes heat from the body surface, well renee get this book its just full of help .I bet you are beyound the scare now and your twins are recovering.but I know how scarry those fevers can be Wishing you the best Trennie

-- jTrendle Ellwood (trendlespin@msn.com), December 04, 2000.

Renee, in your second post you said they seem to get sick a lot lately....are they in daycare? My kids spent very little time in daycare but the whole time they were there they stayed sick! As to the fever....a luke warm bath is recommended...not too cool or it could send them into shock..but not hot either. My daughter was real good about getting horribly high fevers. My pediatrician told me to give her tylenol then in 2 hrs childrens motrin then in 2 hrs tylenol and keep that going as the 2 medications work differently so they can be given at the same time. My doctor (she's in her 70's and has taken care of lots of babies in her life) said that if the tylenol and motrin don't bring it down and it is a really high fever to give them a lukewarm enema. This cools the blood quickly. My daughter had a fever I couldn't get to come down and this did the trick.

-- (aseley@townsqr.com), December 04, 2000.

Thanks everyone,no they are not in daycare but the 2 older ones do go to a church school 2 days a week for 3 hrs. a day. I did pose the question to the director as to why so many sick kids were there all the time, she told me because so many people need full time daycare that it was hard to say no to the sick ones{great!} I think after Christmas we are stopping, they wont to be in the christmas show. We homeschool the 5 yr.old,she likes the kids so I will need to find another activity for her.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 04, 2000.

Do what you can to boost there immune system .High fevers are scary but they are usually fine .I suffered from them and so did 2 of my children .Try to get the 2 older ones to wash there hands often especially when they get home from school.

-- Patty (fodfarms@slic.com), December 04, 2000.

We live a distance from hospitals and pharmacies and this is what I always have on hand...Homeopathic belladonna 30c Childrens tylenol abenol...tylenol suppository My kids had a wicked flu last year and could not keep down any teas remedies or tylenol.So thats where the suppositorys come in handy. (don't you love this mother job :))I use tylenol only if the belladonna doesn't work.And I have learned of course pray first,middle and last ...teri

-- teri m (mrs_smurf2000@yahoo.ca), December 04, 2000.

Hi renee..Had that happen to my grandson when he was staying with me..was about 18 months old at the time..took him to emergency room and they immediately gave him motrin..worked very fast..I had been giving him Tylenol and it didn't do beans.. does not take them kids long to begin dehydrating with a temp. that high... Herbs are fine but not for the swift action you needed, especially concerning kids..I keep liquid Motrin here now. Works 3 times as fast as liquid Tylenol.

-- Lynn (mscratch1@semo.net), December 04, 2000.

Well we are back from the doctors and they have infected tonsils. The doctor put them on an antibiotic and said to keep up w/ the motrin and tylonal and call him in the AM if they still have a fever. He is now saying that if they do not heal he would think about taking them out,any ideas on that? Any herbs good for this? I heard zinc is good for throats but not sure about in babies. Thanks

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 04, 2000.

Renee, have they had tonsillitis frequently? My son's doctor won't take out tonsils unless they have 4-6 infections in a year. Tonsils are actually beneficial filters, and where I live, the doctor doesn't take them out unless as a last resort. Gina NM

-- Gina NM (inhock@pvtnetworks.net), December 04, 2000.

Renee, I've had two that had high fevers, the Tylenol/Advil thing works real well along with sponge baths, force fluids. It sounds like they may need to be taken off the cows milk,(I also have two who can't tolerate it but can goats milk, well one can, one won't try it) try soy for a while and just see if things improve over several months, I'd certainly do this before considering surgery for removal, most children I know that have ear tubes, tonsilitis a lot are really just allergic to milk and sometimes other things. This has been my experience and I have 6 chldren. 3 grown, 3 at home. LOL hope they get better. having sick ones is stressful

-- Carol (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), December 04, 2000.

Renee, Tylenol every 4 hours and Motrin (Ibuprofen or Advil is the same)every 6 hours at the doses your doctor recomended. Is ok to give these together at the same time. It helps to write up a schedule w/ 2 columns, 1 for each w/ the times on the side laid out. Then set the clock as needed & (wink, wink) have your husband get up all night & give them the meds. Keep giving them at least tylenol for a few days even if they don't have a fever. It takes a while for the anti biotics to kick in, and sure as shootin' they will spike a fever about 24 -48 hours after you thought they were starting to get well. Hope they feel better, John

-- John in S IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), December 05, 2000.

Was hoping I wouldn't see this here, and John didn't mention anything, so I will. Rubbing alcohol used to be used frequently for children with high fevers, and it does bring the temperature down, but... it's pretty well absorbed through the skin and inhalation and is very toxic. If anyone still uses this, please try to rethink. Quite dangerous for anyone, but especially children.

-- Teresa in TN (otgonz@bellsouth.net), December 05, 2000.

Teresa, Good point. I missed that one. Something else regarding the baths to cool kids off w/. Warm to tepid water. not cool to cold. The convection cooling of the air and even warm (normal body temp) water is very effective. To rapid of cooling can also lead to the febrile siezures mention above. Glad you pointed that out. John

-- John in S IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), December 05, 2000.

Well we maybe on the road to recovery!!!! they slept for 5hrs.straight last night and are taking a nap now too.I did just about everything on this list and it all worked. We have deceided to take the older 2 out of preschool for sure after X-mas.I am so happy they slept! now only if I could,got to check them all night, a mother thing. Thanks again

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), December 05, 2000.

Renee, your decision of course, but just recently there was news about evidence that kids that do experience all the childhood ills due to interaction with other kids have less immune system problems later in life.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), December 05, 2000.

Renee, Have your little ones been on lots of antibiotics? It sounds a little like antibiotic overload to me. When children take to many antibiotics their immune sustem becomes compromised. This often leads to subsequent reinfection. There are several steps that I took to wean my children from antibiotics. My children now rarely get a bacterial infection. The way I did it was that I came up with a system which became my first line of defence. I tried these things first, before going out to the doctor. If there was no improvement I went to the doctor. Here is my first line of defence.

Earache- or unexplained fever with no other symptoms. This immediately gets treated like an earache. I treat all earaches with Hydrogen peroxide and Garlic oil. I put Hydrgen peroxide in the ear first until the pus, wax, and garbage bubbles out. Then I follow that with Garlic oil. If for some reason Garlic oil fail I then use Clarified Goldenseal tea. When ever you use Goldenseal in the ears or eyes it should be filtered to prevent foreign bodies from irritating the offending part further. Many times an unexplained fever is an ear infection, when it comes with no other symptoms. this is not always true and a continueing unexplained fever should be checked by a doctor, as it can be a symptom of more serious ailments. Eye infection- Golden seal tea twice a day. Irrtated stomach- Peppermeint in the form of strong peppermint pills sold as breath fresheners, also goldenseal tea in the case of virus or possible food poisoning. A severe stomach ache that localises to the lower right side should be investigated by a doctor for appendicitis. Sore throat- my children gargle with Goldenseal tea. If the sore throat is thought to be viral and accompanying other symptoms, then I immediately start them on Garlic three times a day. I use small slippery garlic oil pill until they are old enough to swallow tablets. For small toddlers a better choice is Onion syrup. One teaspoon three times a day. Onion syrup is made by chopping some onion and putting it on a small plate with sugar and putting a cup over it. In about an hour this will produce a sweet syrup around the cup. Cough-Onion syrup, also Garlic given before the cold gets into the chest. Cuts and scrapes- Golden seal applied as a paste.

*Note: Goldenseal should never be given as a total systemic herb as you would give Antibiotics. It is much better used in Topical application for specific symptoms. In other words don't take Goldenseal everyday for the prevention of Disease or take high doses to cure disease. For most applications 1/8 of a teaspoon in a cup of hot water is more than enough to help the problem. A much better herb for immune system help is Echinacea for several Days. It is my opinion that no herb should be taken every single day. Just as you wouldn't eat potatoes every single day. Herbs taken for the enjoyment of a good cup of tea are fine and healthy in most instances, unless they are bitter. Remember God gave plants a bitter flavor for a reason. The lesson is that they be taken in small quantities. This is by no means universal however and every plant should be investigated before adding it to your list of useful herbs. Now I have been known to sit down to a cup of Goldenseal tea just for enjoyment, but it is a rare treat that I enjoy less than once a month. I hope all this info help someone. Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), December 05, 2000.

I may have missed this as I was reading all the answers but want to make sure you know NOT to give aspirn, even baby asprin (can't think of proper spelling), to children with fevers. Give lots of clear liquids, as posted above little ones can get dehydrated quickly from fever. Ice pops are a good source of liquid and needed sugar when kids are sick, also they like them. Make sure you follow the antibiotic routine exactly and finish all the meds you were given for them, even after they "appear" well, if you do not finish the meds the few remaining resistant bacteria will take over, then you will really have a problem. Get some active culture yogert in them every day, the antibiotics kill the good with the bad bacteria and then yeast or clostridium can take over. Good luck to your little ones, hope they are feeling better, you too.

-- Tina (clia88@newmexico.com), December 05, 2000.

Renee,

There is a product called Silk Milk that is pretty good. I think it is one of the better soy milks. I now find it in the cold section of ShopRite (where the non-dairy creamers are)It even comes in chocolate.

I used to put a cold, wet compress around the back of my son's neck to keep his fever down. He has HUGH tonsels. Since he has been off milk, he hasn't had as many problems. He still has his tonsels. (My neice needs hearing aids if she insists on eating dairy)

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), December 05, 2000.

Hi Renee,

I hope they are doing much better.When my Annie was 2,she got terribly sick.Really high fever,lethargic.The doctor had me give her ibuprofen and tylenol rotated every four hours.It helped bring her temperature tpo a much more manageable and comfortable level.

Please be careful using echinacea if your little ones have allergies or asthma as it can cause terrible allergic reactions.

God Bless you with strength to care for your little ones and I pray they get better soon,~~~Tracy~~~

-- Tracy Jo Neff (tntneff@ifriendly.com), December 06, 2000.

Teresa in Tenn. What proof do you have that the alchohol sponge is dangerous I dont see an M.D. behind your name. This method is recommended by Lendon H. Smith, M.D. I would like to hear if anyone has any accounts of this method harming a child.

-- trendle Elwood (trendlespin@msn.com), December 06, 2000.

Trendle, Kaiser Permanente advises that you should not bathe your child in alcohol as well as an EMS page I found. Alcohol baths used to be suggested in children, but later (more Recent) advice tells parents not to use alcohol for the reasons that Teresa suggested. For more info, please do a search for "alcohol bath to reduce fever" on google.com Teresa, Thanks for bringing this up!

-- Kristin, in C. Alabama (positivekharma@aol.com), December 06, 2000.

Trendle, The use of alcohol for treatment of fever has been drooped for quite a while. I don't know when that book was published, but that advice is out of date. Teresa is correct. Not only are the fumes and vapors toxic, the transdermal transfer of alcohol through the skin far outweighs the benefits derived from the fever reduction. Very high incidence of febrile siezure induction related to the too rapid drop in body temperature associated with alcohol baths.

Please see above about water temperature and cooling baths. John RN

-- John in S IN (jsmengel@hotmail.com), December 06, 2000.

I think the alcohol issue along with the allergy to some herbs brings up the point that we all should be very careful in recommending treatments involving children. In this case there was a happy ending but it is possible that some of the treatments recommended could have done more harm then good. She could have misunderstood and given aspirin instead of Tylenol or the alcohol could have caused a toxicity problem or even the recommendation of generous amounts of honey in the tea could have been a problem since honey is not recommended to be given to children under two years of age because it can be dangerous to very young children. (I don't recall renee mentioning the ages of her twins) Obviously, no one here had any intent to hurt here but were truly tryng to help. Unfortunately, that would not have been much consolation to renee if things had gone badly after her following advice on this forum. It is one thing to advise on a sick animal, quite another to advise on a sick child. Just a thought. I just think we should be real careful here.

-- Colleen (pyramidgreatdanes@erols.com), December 07, 2000.

Renee, I hope your twins are feeling better. I am a member of a community at MSN called Mom to Mom. It is just great- lots of moms with lots of ideas from all different walks of lives. If you may be interested just drop me a line and I will send you the address. Raising kids can be so hard sometimes with all the different methods out there. I found that community really helpful (this one is helpful too!!). Best Wishes to your twins and to you and all the patience you need to deal with sick kiddies!!

-- kelly (kellytree@hotmail.com), December 07, 2000.

Read all the posts so far. Wow. What a wealth of experience.

My 5 yo had febrile seizures from about 9mos. to 2 years of age. She started off getting them with high fevers but then the threshold lowered and she would get them anyway. More than once I had to snatch her up and run to the tub clothes/diaper and all. Tepid to warm water worked best. Cold water is too much of a shock and can further the seizure. The sooner I caught it the less deeper into the seizure she seemed to go. The first really big one she had was in a doctor's office. I knew something wasn't right, didn't have an appointment and said I'd wait. She started to seize, I ran up to the desk with her and said, "this is why I brought her in". ACTION! She actually began to turn blue in that one. Doc's oxygen tank was empty. We switched drs after that. She came out of it and was in a daze for a good 20 min. Spent 4 days in the hospital ruling out menengitis and stuff. I even had to hold her for the spinal tap. NO fun.

Our Pediatrician gave us an Rx for phenabarbitol and we ended up using it maybe twice. The overlapping of Motrin and Tylenol usually did the trick of keeping the temp down. We never could figure out why she got so many fevers. She seems to be better in that regard now. IMO, she had an imature nervous system that just couldn't handle the immune system attacks. Also, because of the fevers and "mother's intuition" (a nudge from God?) we have not given her any vaccinations.

More about fevers: we allow fevers to run their course most of the time. Using our judgement (good or bad) as to when to give Tylenol or whatever. I had always heard of the fever breaking and did know how I would know but once you've seen it you know. My kids usually break out in a cool sweat and I can tell by their breathing when they are asleep. During the night I can listen from my room to them breathing in their room and tell if they have fever or not.

Also: I have heard that chewing gum with Zylitol (sp?) as a sweetener is good for recurrent ear infections. Anyone know more about this? If so maybe post as another thread?

my $.02

-- Heather (heathergorden@hotmail.com), December 07, 2000.

Renee, it sure is scarey when the little ones get sick. I think every mom has stayed up all night with sick babies. You get twice the scare with twins.

With my first kid, our country pediatrition showed me how to prevent bacterial ear and tonsil infections settling in with every cold that came along. I am sure this is why my youngest ones never get sick.

Whenever the child gets a cold or sinus congestion, put 1/4 teaspoon salt in a cup of warm water and load into a nasal or bulb syringe. Tip the child's head back and slowly dribble the salt water up one nostril, then tip the child forward so they can blow or spit the mucous out. Do this on both sides until it is running clear. Make sure you tip them forward in time as you do not want that stuff going down into their lungs. Be sure you have plenty of paper towels on hand as this is messy! Kids also hate this and make a lot of noise. My daughters call this getting a Ducksnort, because of the noise, but they now asks for a ducksnort whenever they have a cold in her nose. It works by washing away the mucous where the bacteria grows near the eustacion tubes and the salt kills any bacteria on the membranes.

I also allow a fever but I do not allow it to go over 101 and it may not last more than 24 hours. I use frozen juice bars to help keep the temperature down. Then I use the Motrin and Tylenol. Keep checking for rashes on the body or the palms of the hands, too. Scarlet fever is a complication of strep throat.

My kids never cared for the onion syrup mentioned in an earlier post (one kid loves raw onions without sugar) but they do like garlic soup. One onion, one bulb garlic, peeled, chopped and simmered in 1 cup water for 10 minutes, add 1 teaspoon veggie seasoning, remove from heat and beat in one egg. Puree and serve.

Then of course, rock them in the rocking chair half the night, tuck them in bed and check them every 5 minutes to make sure they are still there. When they are all better and up running around, you will be too exausted to keep up with them. (hint:sleep when they do)

Give them both hugs and kisses from all of us on the forum.

-- Laura (gsend@hotmail.com), December 08, 2000.

Just heard today that using OTC painkillers like Tylenol and Motrin for fever can lengthen the time spent sick by up to 30% (ish), possibly by interfering with the immune response. This is for adults and children. I would reserve OTC use for emergencies only, sickness- wise.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), December 09, 2000.

My daughter used to spike a fever whenever she started cutting another tooth, and lived on Tylenol for several days. My son used to have constant ear infections (finally outgrew them)which need antibiotics to cure. For mild fevers, try the herbals etc, but if the fever is 105 that tells you something is wrong and resorting to modern medicines is the right thing to do, sure enough it was an infection that needed to be treated. I think modern medicine is sometimes overused, but there are times where it's necessary, look at the death rates and overall health today compared to 200 years ago.

-- Joan Murray (alandjoan@juno.com), December 11, 2000.

I know what you mean, I wish I knew of something to keep on hand for this problem and unfortunately it was a little late for me to get find out what that was. Last Thursday night my 16 month old son suffered a ferbile seizure. It was awful, I panicked like you wouldn't believe, I tried to calm myself, but he kept going, it lasted at least 8 minutes. I was scared to death, I was just praying out loud and rocking him and caressing him. He stopped just a few seconds short of the paramedics arrival. They took him to the nearest Hospital. This is something I want to prevent in the future. I was told by the Dr. that since he had one, there is a 50% chance he will suffer another when he gets high fevers, it's the way the body works!! :o( I want to learn everything I can about this, so to be safe if it should happen again! Good Luck with all you and your children out there!

-- Adrianna Juarez (ajuarez@mmm.com), April 23, 2001.

Hi,

Hope your twins are now doing better. I have twin girls, now age 21, who were premature by 2 months, so I had very tiny little babies. I did not put them in daycare, but even taking them out for a checkup would usually result in a cold or something. But that's the way the body builds immunities. I didn't know about goats milk when I had the girls, but with my son who couldn't keep any formula down, I found a local goat dairy (now gone out of business, sigh!) who gave me a gallon just to try. The boychild, who had been so sickly because of inadequate nutrition thrived and gained weight and became healthy and bouncy and did not have reflux at all after the first week of drinking the goat's milk. It was truly a lifesaver as we did think we would lose him during the first six months as he could hold no formula down. As far as fevers and herbals go, I can't recommend anything cause every baby is different. Some have allergies that don't show up until AFTER a treatment is given so I would have to say stock up on infant tylenol and if you think of it, ask your Doctor for a standing prescription (one which you can fill when needed, my doctor will usually give me one which has one or two refills) for suppositories as sometimes the kids are so sick they can't keep liquids down. Other than that, I'd do what the doctor says and keep in the back of your mind that this person only sees your children when they are sick and/or at the well baby checkup and you live with the 24/7. I know how scary high temps can be and used to have to give alcohol baths to my twins if the temp exceeded 104 which brought the temp down. But even too much alcohol can be bad as it is very drying to the skin, so I had to put lots of baby lotion on afterwards. Twins are wonderful. And I will bet you that when yours are talking, one will start a sentence and the other will finish it! It is as if they know what the other is thinking. We called it twinspeak. I spent many sleepless nights rocking two sick babies, but when they are well, you have that double dose of grins and laughs. Good luck with the babies, and you might ask the Dr. about the herbal remedies. Thousands of people over the centuries can't have all been wrong!

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), April 23, 2001.