Counters claim all ballots have been counted.greenspun.com : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread
Votes not counted? Not according to counters From IP: www.spectator.org/campaign/campaign.htm
Al Gore's Mystery Votes
How do these stories get started? Thousands of journalists, political junkies, and just plain citizens seem to believe that Al Gore has demanded several recounts of the presidential vote in Florida, but the vice president wants you to know that that is absolutely not true. "We hear statements on the other side quite frequently to the effect that we've had a count and a recount and another recount, but that's really beside the point," Gore told the House and Senate's Dick Gephardt and Tom Daschle in a photo-op conference call Monday afternoon. "What we're talking about involves many thousands of votes that have never been counted at all."
The vice president made the case again in his address to the nation Monday night. "This is all we have asked since Election Day: a complete count of all the votes cast in Florida," he said. "Not recount after recount as some have charged, but a single, full and accurate count." And that fair first count is so critical, Gore added, because "many thousands of votes that were cast on Election Day have not yet been counted at all, not once."
What does that mean? Despite Gore's insistence otherwise, there has been a count of votes in Florida, and there has been a mandatory recount, and there has been a third count, done at the vice president's urging. So what is he talking about when he says there are thousands of votes that have never been counted?
Apparently, Gore is referring to 10,750 ballots identified as "undervotes" in Miami-Dade County. An undervote is a ballot in which the voter did not make a choice for any candidate. Perhaps the voter decided not to vote for anyone, or perhaps the voter messed up the ballot, but either way, the vote did not register a choice in the presidential column. According to county officials, that's far different from saying that the vote was never counted.
"It's not like the votes didn't count, says Gisela Salas, assistant supervisor of elections in Miami-Dade. "All ballots have been run through the machines, and there may have been other votes on the same card that were counted for other races." Salas says all of Miami-Dade's ballots were fed into the counting machines on election night and again during the mandatory recount. Having the machines identify 10,750 undervotes was pretty much par for the course in a county the size of Miami-Dade. "It really didn't strike me as anything unusual," Salas says. "Any time you have an election, you come up with numbers like that. It's not really unusual to see people choosing not to vote in a particular race, even in a presidential race."
Salas says there were also 17,851 "overvotes" in Miami-Dade, meaning ballots in which the voter chose two or more candidates for president. Those, too, did not register as votes for any candidate. That makes for a total of 28,601 under- and overvotes this year, out of 653,963 ballots cast in the county -- which means that one out of every 23 voters did not make a choice for president.
Is that an unusually high number? In 1996, according to Salas, there were 17,250 under- and overvotes out of a total of 570,586 ballots cast, meaning that one out of 33 voters did not make a choice for president. The number was similar in 1992, but was far larger in 1988, when there were 42,012 under- and overvotes out of a total of 531,882 ballots cast. That means one out of 13 voters decided not to choose either George H.W. Bush or Michael Dukakis or anybody else as president. "Nobody questioned it," Salas recalls. "We didn't have a close election that year."
But now Al Gore claims that the Miami-Dade undervotes are ballots that have never been counted at all. "Ignoring votes means ignoring democracy itself," Gore said on television Monday night. "If we ignore the votes of thousands in Florida in this election, how can you or any American have confidence that your vote will not be ignored in a future election?"
Well, yes. Ignoring votes would be a bad thing. But the votes have not been ignored. And of course, the same might be said of the facts. If we ignore them now, how can we have confidence that they will not be ignored in a future election?
--------------------------------------------------- Byron York is The American Spectator's senior writer.
-- ... (...@...com), November 28, 2000
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. Ballot observers have found one outrageous case after another of tampered ballots, miscounts and bias in the recount in Democrat- dominated Broward County, NewsMax.com learned in exclusive interviews over the holiday weekend.
"If theres anyone who really believes that the ballot recounts are objective and fair, Im ready to sell him the Brooklyn Bridge," one Republican recount observer told NewsMax.com.
Among the questionable and outright fraudulent practices that witnesses noted in the recount of presidential votes:
Numerous absentee ballots had the chad for George W. Bush Scotch-taped back in and the chad for Al Gore punched out.
"We were told there were about 80 such absentee ballots," an observer told NewsMax.com. "The Broward County Canvassing Board's justification for allowing these votes that voters obviously just changed their minds might be understandable for the isolated case, but not for 80.
"These Scotch-taped ballots are a shining example of a corrupt process. These ballots can be tampered with after they left the hands of the voters, and the Broward County Canvassing Board is all too happy to count them as Gore votes."
Chads were dislodged from ballots shaken by county workers during the counting.
On one such occasion, for example, a county ballot counter predicted that a hanging chad on a ballot would fall off if he were to shake the ballot. He then shook it, knocking off the chad. That ballot was subsequently identified as a Gore vote.
One Republican observer collected more than 75 chads from the table and floor in the area where ballots were being inspected and counted.
While that observer was trying to collect the chads from the table before a lunch break, the counting supervisor ordered him to leave the chads and leave the room.
Writing and ink blots, indications of tampering, were found on ballots.
There were attempts to count 75 Gore ballots as 100.
During the final counting, four stacks of 25 ballots each were supposed to be stacked crossways into stacks of 100 votes. But on at least one instance, four stacks containing only 75 Gore votes each were originally counted as if they were four stacks of 100 ballots, a miscount of 100 votes in favor of Gore.
The Republican ballot observer who saw and objected to this error leading to its correction was then kicked out of the room at the Broward County Emergency Operations Center.
County ballot counters also were observed placing Bush ballots in the Gore pile.
At one counting table, a counter repeatedly put ballots that had been identified as votes for Bush onto the Gore pile. On no occasion was he observed placing a ballot identified as a Gore vote onto the Bush pile.
Also, he continuously watched the wall-mounted televisions. Several times the other counter at the table told him to pay attention to the ballot inspection and counting. He replied, "Im giving it as much attention as it deserves."
A recount observer said, "Its important to understand that most of the county workers were professional and fair in carrying out their duties, but its a shame that a few bad eggs can make the whole room stink."
Bias and Collusion
Democrat observers were under instruction to challenge ballots even where it was clear there was no vote cast for president.
Ballots with no presidential votes punched provide a significant opportunity for tampering. A Gore chad could later be dislodged or punched and then counted as a Gore vote.
A Broward recount supervisor was even overheard accepting pro-Gore instructions from a Broward County Canvassing Board attorney.
The board attorney told the recount supervisor to "err on the side of giving it to us," a witness told NewsMax.com.
The Broward supervisor then reversed his earlier instructions and told the ballot observers to feel free to challenge no-vote ballots.
On one occasion two Broward counters were observed showing each other their voter registration cards and identifying themselves as Democrats, as if they were members of the correct club.
On other occasions county workers were observed demonstrating for Gore.
These are the sort of Democrat practices that helped Gore "gain" hundreds of votes from the Broward County recount.
"Its hard to believe that the leader of the free world would be determined by these kinds of cheap tricks," one ballot observer told NewsMax.com.
(Note: a lot of these incidents are captured on videotape.)
-- ... (...@...com), November 28, 2000.
Newsmax and Spectator.org-rotflmao-these are not companies that have any interest in objective reporting. I get a huge kick out of folks who out of one side of their mouth complain about the "liberal media bias" and then out of the other side of their mouth spout stuff from these notoriously one-sided organizations.
In the above article is this qoute: "which means that one out of every 23 voters did not make a choice for president."
One cannot assume that an "undervote" is not vote at all. We have had testimony from the inventor of the machine giving reasons as to why certain ballots, in which a vote WAS cast, do not register on his machine.
One CANNOT assume that every one of those ballots in Miami Dade is a no vote. The defies the basics of logic.
I challenge the republican party to not accept any votes found for Bush in other counties where "undervotes" where counted. Not giving up the votes? Didn't think so.
-- SydBarrett (email@example.com), November 28, 2000.
>and there has been a third count, done at the vice president's urging.
That third count, the manual recount of some counties, has not yet been completed.
Why do some people, such as a Republican spokesperson I heard on TV just before I started composing this note, want to give the impression that there have already been more than three complete counts? Why not stick to the truth?
-- No Spam Please (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 28, 2000.
I've heard there have been up to FOUR recounts on the news. Um...WHERE? Nobody says. There's a reason why liberals call some folks ditto-heads. They hear something on the AM radio stations and repeat it as thought it were fact. Rush Limbaugh is God, ya know.
-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 28, 2000.