BREAKING NEWS!: END OF THE ROAD FOR GORE? Miami Dade county unanimously votes to stop all hand counting... : LUSENET : TB2K spinoff uncensored : One Thread


-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here, November 22, 2000


-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here, November 22, 2000.

Read it again, nitwit...

-- (reading@com.prehension), November 22, 2000.

Absolutely true. It's headlined at MSNBC, CNN, and The Washington Post. But the details aren't in yet.

-- eve (, November 22, 2000.

Hey doofus - they are stopping the hand count and concentrating on determining the intent of the 10,000 "hanging chad" ballots.

Still smiling?

-- Don't believe everything you read on Drudge (and@none.of what Ain't says), November 22, 2000.


-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here, November 22, 2000.

This rules out hundreds of "potential" votes. Sure sounds to me like a death knell for the Gore campaign. (Course I've thought that same thing after dozens of previous "breaking news" announcements.)

-- CD (, November 22, 2000.

Don't believe everything you read on Drudge (and@none.of what Ain't says)

Shame you are too gutless to post with your normal handle.

-- Ain't Gonna Happen (Not Here, November 22, 2000.

-- (, November 22, 2000.

NY Times...

November 22, 2000

Miami-Dade County Officials Call Off Manual Recount


---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- (REUTERS)

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The Miami-Dade Canvassing Board voted unexpectedly this afternoon to stop its manual recount, arguing that a Sunday deadline imposed by the Supreme Court on Tuesday night did not give them enough time to complete tabulating all votes by hand.

The unanimous decision was a major setback for Vice President Al Gore the morning after he won a victory before the Supreme Court, which said such hand counts could go forward. Mr. Gore had picked up a net gain of 157 votes in the recount of Miami-Dade with 135 of 614 precincts completed. But all three members of the canvassing commission decided they did not have time to complete the count of the rest of the county by Sunday.

The board this morning said it would count just 10,750 undervotes, ballots where counting machines had not detected a vote for president, instead of going ahead with a count of all the votes. Republicans objected, saying that count was not fair. The board at a meeting this afternoon agreed.

"It became evidently clear this morning, that it was going to be a phsyical impossibility because of time. You cannot count the remaining hand ballots by Sunday," said Lawrence King, the chairman of the canvassing committee and a Democrat. The other two members, Myriam Lehr and David Leahy, have no party affiliation.

Gov. George W. Bush criticized the Florida Supreme Court today, arguing the judicial branch had overstepped its powers and essentially rewritten the laws of the state.

Mr. Bush, in a televised news conference before the Miami-Dade decision, said he believed Democrats were trying to change the results of the election by continuing a manual recount in three South Florida counties. He said the court had improperly usurped the powers of the Secretary of State who had ruled that manual recounts should not count and instead imposed its own deadline.

"The court has cloaked its ruling in legalistic language," Mr. Bush said. "But make no mistake. The court rewrote the law and changed the rules and did so after the election was over."

Mr. Bush renewed Republican criticism that Democratic officials had improperly excluded overseas military ballots. He said Mr. Gore should call on authorities in Florida to make sure overseas military ballots, would count if they had been signed and received on time. Many of the ballots were excluded because they lacked postmarks, though Republicans argued that excluding them was improper.

He referred all questions on an appeal of Tuesday night's state Supreme Court decision to his lawyers.

"I feel great. I believe I'm going to win," he said. "Particularly if the vote is accurately and fairly counted."

Adding to the tension, Mr. Bush's running mate, Dick Cheney, was admitted today to the hospital in Washington after suffering chest pains. Mr. Bush said today Mr. Cheney had not suffered a heart attack.

Mr. Cheney, who has a history of heart attacks, was taken to George Washington University Hospital in Washington as a precaution. Mr. Bush said Mr. Cheney sounded strong when the two men spoke. The Florida Supreme Court, in its unanimous decision issued Tuesday night, ruled that the hand counts under way in the three heavily Democratic counties had to be included in the state's total.

The court did not specifically address the question of whether the manual recounts should include ballots that were indented or partially punched, the so-called 'dimpled chads." Democrats argued the ruling suggested that canvassing boards should count such ballots.


-- eve (, November 22, 2000.

(...NY Times story continued from above)

The initial decision this morning by Miami-Dade just to count undervotes, and to do so behind closed doors, angered Republican activists. After two days of recounting under observation by the press and political parties, the canvassing board voted this morning to take its work behind closed doors, reported Dana Canedy, a reporter for The New York Times who is covering the recount in Miami- Dade County.

Republicans began gathering outside the new, 19th-floor counting room and started an impromptu protest. The crowd began shoving, trying to gain access to the counting room. Downstairs, another crowd of Republicans gathered, shouting, "No cover-up!"

After about an hour, the canvassing board voted to return to the 18th floor, where they began their recount Monday, and resume the process in public. That quieted the protesters, Ms. Canedy reported.

But then this afternoon the canavassing board canceled the hand count all together.

Some Republican state legislators said today that the Supreme Court had intruded upon their territory and hinted that a special session of the State Legislature, which is dominated by Republicans, might be needed. An obscure federal law allows a state legislature to appoint the state's electors in a presidential election when the outcome is unclear.

James A. Baker 3rd, who represents Mr. Bush's interests in the Florida election impasse, hinted that such a response was being considered by legislators, but he said Mr. Bush had not sought it.

"I would not be surprised to see the legislature perhaps take some action to get back to the original statutory provisions," Mr. Baker said Tuesday night after the state Supreme Court decision.

Speaking for the Democrats, Senator Bob Kerrey of Nebraska contended the Republicans had only accused the state Supreme Court of being partisan when confronted by a decision the Republicans did not like. If the legislators took it upon themselves to choose the electors, he said, that would cast a pall of illegitimacy over a Bush presidency.

The Florida Supreme Court, in ruling Tuesday night that state election officials must include hand recounts in the official results of the state's presidential election, did not explicitly discuss dimpled ballots, but the ruling said the intent of the voter must not be ignored. Democrats said the ruling's language set a broad standard for which ballots to include.

The court's language, including a citation of a Illinois Supreme Court decision requiring that dimpled ballots be counted, echoed the argument Democrats used when asking local canvassing boards to include such ballots in their count.

"Although error cannot be completely eliminated in any tabulation of the ballots, our society has not yet gone so far as to place blind faith in machines," the opinion said. "In almost all endeavors, including elections, humans routinely correct the errors of machines."

The court said manual recount totals must be accepted by the secretary of state's office through 5 p.m. on Sunday, Nov. 26, if the office is open, or 9 a.m. Monday if it is closed on Sunday. The office said today it would remain open on Sunday.

Secretary of State Katherine Harris, a Republican who was co- chairwoman of Mr. Bush's presidential campaign in Florida, previously said state election law left her no discretion to accept votes submitted after a Nov. 14 deadline.

The court, in overruling her, said it wanted to give each side enough time to contest the outcome before the Electoral College convenes. Florida's electors must be formally selected by Dec. 12. The state has become the key to the White House because its 25 electoral votes will determine which candidate becomes president in the close election.

Mr. Gore leads Mr. Bush by 323,703 votes in the country's popular vote, out of nearly 100 million votes cast. But in Florida, Mr. Bush so far enjoys a lead of 930 votes. Manual recount totals so far in the state would cut Mr. Bush's lead by 81 votes, not counting the manual recount in Miami-Dade or the so-called dimpled ballots in Broward or Palm Beach Counties.

-- eve (, November 22, 2000.

By midmorning Wednesday, the situation looked like this in the three counties:

- In Broward County, with all 609 precincts recounted, plus more than 26,400 absentee ballots, Gore had gained 78 votes.

- In Palm Beach County, with 103 of 531 precincts recounted, Gore had gained three votes.

- In Miami-Dade County with 135 of 614 precincts recounted, Gore had gained 157 votes.

-- CD (, November 22, 2000.

What a roller coaster ride! The fat lady hasn't sung yet. You can "count" on Gore putting pressure to continue the manual counts.

-- Maria (, November 22, 2000.

Wait a minute...can the Canvassing Board DO that? I thought that when a candidate requested a recount the Board didn't have the right to say "Naw - we don't wanna' do it so fahgettaboutit!" and they HAD to do it as it is manadated by law. Is this possibly a maneuver to get the Supreme Court Sunday deadline extended?

BTW - with the two remaining counties doing a recount, it's been estimated that Gore can still win Florida IF the Dimpled Chads are included. Everyone is awaiting a 4:30 decision by the Judge hearing the issue.

-- Waiting (, November 22, 2000.

At this point, there are no laws or precedence covering the proceedings.

The recount requested was accomplished right after the election. That is what they are required to do, by law. I guess the canvassing board can do what they want to now, or nothing at all, if they wish.

I don't know what in this world they are doing, now. I would call it "stalling".

-- TDA (, November 22, 2000.

I thought that when a candidate requested a recount the Board didn't have the right to say "Naw - we don't wanna' do it so fahgettaboutit!" and they HAD to do it as it is manadated by law. There has already been a recount

Miami-Dade already honored the request for a recount. They did a machine recount shortly after the election.

-- CD (, November 22, 2000.

The problem is that a recount must be done for all (ALL) the votes, not just some. If all the votes are not recounted in time, then none (NONE) of the votes can be cerified and don't go into the final tally. That would disenfranchise all the voters in the county. I don't think the board wants that.

-- Maria (, November 22, 2000.

Miami-Dade already honored the request for a recount. They did a machine recount shortly after the election.

That wasn't a requested recount. That was an automatic recount as required by Florida Law because the difference in votes was so small. Nobody had to request it.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), November 22, 2000.

The problem is that a recount must be done for all (ALL) the votes, not just some. If all the votes are not recounted in time, then none (NONE) of the votes can be cerified and don't go into the final tally. That would disenfranchise all the voters in the county. I don't think the board wants that.

However, I don't know why they can't try to count them anyway. If they don't make it by Sunday, they can just toss them all and go with the 11/8 results like they're planning to do now. Of course, it would have been a big waste of time should that happen.

-- (hmm@hmm.hmm), November 22, 2000.

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