Has anyone been paying attention to the rhetoric of the radical right lately? Lots of people are talking about an armed insurrection and accusing the Dems of an attempted "coup d'etat". The level of hysteria is getting pretty high (or should that be deep?).

I predict that if Gore wins, we will have another terrorist action similar to Oklahoma City. Somewhere, some "patriot" will decide to, in the words of J, "suspend the rule of law" and kill innocent Americans, AKA "collateral losses" in an effort to "save the country". We may even have a spate of bombings in Florida similar to the civil rights era bombings in Birmingham.

I predict that if Bush wins, the radical right will be mollified, at least for awhile. I don't believe we'll have any bombings, but a lot of ugliness will be spread throughout the press (though this is a certainty regardless of who wins). This is not to say Bush supporters are any more violent than Gore supporters, only that those brittle people inclined toward violence are more likely to be found in the Bush camp.

Comments?

-- Tarzann the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000

Answers

Tarzan,

I think the people of America are above this kind of action. Sure, both sides will be mad no matter who wins, but violence like you described above? I just don't think so (or perhaps I just hope not).

Mar.

-- Not now, not like this (AgentSmith0110@aol.com), November 22, 2000.

Tarzann, Tarzann, Tarzann.....

I see you have light bulb glowing, and eyes wide open. I have been trying to make this point for two weeks, and only a few (Patricia comes to mind) have the intestinal fortitude to leave their partisanship in the bag, and actually address this issue.

I am not very articulate, and I'm pretty sure my previous threads were misconstrued, and my intent misinterpreted. It seems I anger one side or the other when I try to address this situation.

I'm telling you people, this election will not be over, even after one of these brats assumes control of the fur lined foxhole. There is plenty of right and left wingers on the fringe who are going to "make their point" regardless of the cost to innocents.

The path of court jesters choosing our President is not going to sit well with most Americans, including this one. One of these idiots needs to concede for the good of the nation, the Constitution, the people, and our future.

I have twelve months 'till retirement, and I ain't goin' to no damn wars, and I'll be damned if I let these idiots start one here, but they sure are givin' it one hell of a try.

We are decapitating the Executive Branch as we speak, and I guess the Child King will "have" to stay the lead dog, for the foreseeable future.

I ask my same question, "What can we do to rectify the situation as it exists?" Or as I suggest, it's too late. Pandora's box is open, never to be closed again.

Will the next election be a violent one? Is this one about to be?

-- Three Decades Army (Hood@thunk.it), November 22, 2000.

I agree with you, Mar, that I hope it doesn't come down to violence. I believe, however, that there are people who are whipping up sentiments in the "patriot" community to involve just this sort of thing. I don't know if you go to Sleazy Board very often, but the discussion over there is practically purple with talk of violent "uprisings". Maybe it's just talk, maybe it's not, however, there are some brittle people who are associated with the militia and "patriot" movements, people like Timothy McVeigh, who are very impressionable.

Now, this is NOT to say that everyone who believes a Gore win would be bad is a Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph in training. This is also NOT to say that we should abridge the right of free speech among the radical right to prevent terrorist actions.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

I see you have light bulb glowing, and eyes wide open. I have been trying to make this point for two weeks, and only a few (Patricia comes to mind) have the intestinal fortitude to leave their partisanship in the bag, and actually address this issue.

I think I've missed the threads you've commented on. Can you provide me with links?

I'm telling you people, this election will not be over, even after one of these brats assumes control of the fur lined foxhole. There is plenty of right and left wingers on the fringe who are going to "make their point" regardless of the cost to innocents.

I don't know that violence would come from the left, but I do think that they would attempt to smear Bush in the press in the same manner that the right smeared Clinton.

The path of court jesters choosing our President is not going to sit well with most Americans, including this one. One of these idiots needs to concede for the good of the nation, the Constitution, the people, and our future.

The Constitution and this nation are a lot stronger than you think. This is the fourth time our nation has encountered an election crisis, and it hasn't killed us yet.

I have twelve months 'till retirement, and I ain't goin' to no damn wars, and I'll be damned if I let these idiots start one here, but they sure are givin' it one hell of a try.

On this point, we're in agreement. There's a lot of people who don't have much experience with war, who romanticize the concept of rebellion and who think they'll be able to claim some glory. These folks have never thought about WHO they would be fighting, or WHY.

We are decapitating the Executive Branch as we speak, and I guess the Child King will "have" to stay the lead dog, for the foreseeable future.

What are you talking about? According to the constitution, it would be Hastert that would take over on January 20th if a new prez hasn't been elected yet. Bill Clinton is over and done with as far as the Presidencey goes.

I ask my same question, "What can we do to rectify the situation as it exists?" Or as I suggest, it's too late. Pandora's box is open, never to be closed again.

Again, we've dealt with this on three other occasions, we can deal with this again. There may very well BE some terroist actions before it's all over, but anarchy will NOT win.

Will the next election be a violent one?

No. But there WILL be a lot more voter participation!

Is this one about to be?

Other than some terroristic violence, no.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingignthorughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Tarzan:

There are certainly some armchair warriors expressing their anger, but they were doing that before this election. I'm not worried about any resurrections, and I'm a "blue" living in a "red" county. There have always been, and will always be a small percentage of the population who feels disenfranchised. As you said, the nation will survive despite these threats of "blackmail" if things don't go the way some folks choose.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 22, 2000.

Hey Ape Man, you've become so mellow and philosophical, so high and mighty, could it be your man has won and now you hope no one kicks your ass?

I just love this one, "I don't know that violence would come from the left, but I do think that they would attempt to smear Bush in the press in the same manner that the right smeared Clinton."

It's really grand how you and yours are so innocent and only the right wing terrorists are to blame for everything. May I remind you of the compassionate Clinton/Gore administration? Ruby Ridge, Waco Texas, Aspirin factory in Sudan, just to name those that come immediately to mind. These were situations where innocent people (women and children) were killed by the Clinton/ Gore government, not by hysterical right wing terrorist. Our government murdered people and that's okay with you because they're your guys? What, all in a days work?

What a load of crap!

-- good luck (keepyourpowder@dry.com), November 22, 2000.

Ruby Ridge happened under Bush.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Tarzann, since I am a dimwit, I don't know how to provide threads. A couple were on a different string, but in lusenet. Regardless.....

I'll attempt my thoughts....

Does history repeat itself? Is our nation at an apex? The people are divided equally in half in what they want. The leadership is only aggravating the situation at hand. The last time we were in this, Abe had to declare war on the seceding States. Now, don't start confusing the reasons why, those are irrelevent. My crystal ball doesn't show where this is leading, but don't underestimate the mob mentality that seems to be engulfing the population, at least in my estimation.

And by the way, Anita, I'm not angry, my writing just appears that way. You have to read my comments calmly, because I am. There's not much that gets me riled, anymore. I'm only thinking out loud.

This armchair warrior is still in uniform, and appreciating the longevity to reach the "chair".

-- TDA (hood@thunk.it), November 22, 2000.

Does history repeat itself? Is our nation at an apex? The people are divided equally in half in what they want. The leadership is only aggravating the situation at hand. The last time we were in this, Abe had to declare war on the seceding States.

Actually, no. The last time the people were divided almost equally in half over a president was the Kennedy/Nixon race of '60.

Also, the Confederates started the civil war by firing on Fort Sumter.

My crystal ball doesn't show where this is leading, but don't underestimate the mob mentality that seems to be engulfing the population, at least in my estimation.

I think those who are worked up enough over this to cause some problems are in the minority, though they may certainly be dangerous. If we, as a nation, were "het up" (southernism) over one fool or the other in the first place, we would have had a clear winner.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

TDA:

I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the angry people. Actually, I was thinking of Will Continue's post this week wherein she stated, "We're MAD, and we're not going to take it anymore." She was mad two years ago. Heck, she may have been mad all her life. Then there's INVAR and the folks who have rallied around his thoughts of insurrection on EZBOARD, and let's not forget the Freepers and the Sierra Times folks and the KKK folks and the other fringe groups. These folks have felt disenfranchised for years, and I suspect that feeling won't go away, especially if they keep "feeding" each other in group hate sessions. I certainly don't think it will go away just because one person or the other obtains the presidency. There will ALWAYS be something for them to complain about, no matter who wins this election.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 22, 2000.

Ape man, I'll take your word for it and apologize for blaming you and yours for Ruby Ridge. But it appears to me that now that you think you've won you want everyone to forgive and forget. I don't think there will be violence, however, you have succeeded in galvanizing the right like never before and for that, I thank you and yours.

-- good luck (keepyourpowder@dry.com), November 22, 2000.

Anita-

In a way, you've argued my viewpoint. There's always an undercurrent of anger in this country which flares up at key points. Consider lynchings in the 19th and 20th century, the civil rights era bombings, Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh. My concern isn't so much the undercurrent as much as it is the impressionable, brittle people who buy into the flareups.

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Yep, and thank heaven one of those in '60 conceded. I wish one of these guys would. However, I don't think the population as a whole was any where near this "het up" over the election (thanks for deferring to a southern mind).

You see, I don't care who get's the office, but "winning" is now out of the question. Four years from now, we won't be able to tell the difference who had the Presidency. It'll all look the same.

And that's all I want, the same America four years from now, ten years from now. Of course, we have areas to improve upon, and those will continue to be contested subjects. But we sure don't need what we are witnessing for this election.

Ya'll are helping me, believe it or not. I'm having to "learn" how to be a civilian. We aren't allowed to campaign, or even tell a joke about the Commander in Chief, under threat of court martial. So with most of my life in this mentality, except for voting, I'm quite used to falling in step with whoever is in office. Most folks haven't stopped attacking two or three or even four Administrations ago.

Unfortunately, my thinking always seems to slide into the worst case scenario, probably from the now ingrained tactical mentality.

Maybe I'll never be a civilian.

-- TDA (hood@thunk.it), November 22, 2000.

Ape man, I'll take your word for it and apologize for blaming you and yours for Ruby Ridge.

There's no need to take my word for it. It's history, and if you don't know it, it's no one else's fault but your own.

But it appears to me that now that you think you've won you want everyone to forgive and forget.

What do you mean that I think I've won? I wasn't running for anything. If you're refering to my choice for president, it may surprise you that I voted for Harry Browne. Moreover, I have to ask how you extrapolate a cautionary post about potential terroistic violence with a desire for forgiveness and forgetfulness. Do you think it's somehow wrong to dread terrorism?

I don't think there will be violence, however, you have succeeded in galvanizing the right like never before and for that, I thank you and yours.

What, little ol' me?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Ape man, I extended a palm frond and apologized for an in-accurate accusation, made an observation on how I saw your post (past and present), and you shoved it down my throat. And then you blame others for their ignorance and accuse the right wing of inflaming the rhetoric. As I said before, what a load of crap!

-- good luck (keepyourpowder@dry.com), November 22, 2000.

Ape man, I extended a palm frond and apologized for an in-accurate accusation, made an observation on how I saw your post (past and present), and you shoved it down my throat.

How, exactly, did I shove it down your throat? By telling you I didn't vote for Gore?

And then you blame others for their ignorance and accuse the right wing of inflaming the rhetoric. As I said before, what a load of crap!

Yawn. If you can't remember 1991, how is it MY fault? Or are you just looking for someone else to blame?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewihtouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Speaking of killing innocent Americans, how many innocents were slaughtered while you stood guard outside the clinic, Tarzan?

When you went to the abyss recently, did you see any laying on the sides?

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), November 22, 2000.

Uh, sorry I overheard your conversation, but what's a frond? Do I have one of those? I want one. No, I need two. I'd like to give one each to the "left" and "right", see if they can extend it to somebody....

Any other country in the world, the shootin' would have already started......

Thank God we're not in "any other country"....

-- TDA (hood@thunk.it), November 22, 2000.

Speaking of killing innocent Americans, how many innocents were slaughtered while you stood guard outside the clinic, Tarzan?

I get it! If you're in over your head on one argument, simply change the subject, right?

When you went to the abyss recently, did you see any laying on the sides?

My conscience is clean. There can be no equality where there is no independance and self-determination. If women can't be trusted with a choice, how can they be trusted with a child?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Since that was my first reply to your post, I don't think it would qualify as a rebuttal. And your conscience is clear because sociopaths don't operate with the same kind as most people.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), November 22, 2000.

Since that was my first reply to your post, I don't think it would qualify as a rebuttal.

Who said anything about a rebuttal?

And your conscience is clear because sociopaths don't operate with the same kind as most people.

OOOOH! An insult! Why, that's the most solid kind of argument! Whatever shall I do?

-- Tarzan the Ape Man (tarzan@swingingthroughthejunglewithouta.net), November 22, 2000.

Whatever shall I do?

Running in circles while waving your arms in the air comes to mind. With the chemo sapping your strength though, I might suggest you simply ignore the poster.

Rich

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), November 22, 2000.

Just so you read me, Rich. If you want to be an asshole too, be my guest.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), November 22, 2000.

KoFE:

You are giving your job to Rich? :^)

I disagree with one of your statements:

I predict that if Bush wins, the radical right will be mollified, at least for awhile. I don't believe we'll have any bombings,

You have forgotten the radical environmentalists. If Bush is elected and does what he said he would do, I would watch out. These people have already indicated that they place their agenda above property, society and life, itself. They are a whole movement of Tim's.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 22, 2000.

KoFE:

Note that everything after :^) was directed to the ape-one.

Best wishe,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 22, 2000.

Z, you seemed to have me mixed up with someone else. I didn't post that. I can see though, that you equate patriotism with terrorists, just the way your handlers have taught you.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), November 22, 2000.

Kofe:

I don't think Z's "handlers" taught him ANYTHING. YOU may think it patriotic to blow up the Federal building, but *I* sure don't. We all read the posts by the presumed patriots. Their words come through clean and clear.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 22, 2000.

"Ape man, I extended a palm frond and apologized for an in-accurate accusation"

With fronds like that, who needs enemas?

-- Nyuk nyuk (hey.moe@3stooges.org), November 29, 2000.