Dang, We Really Do Need To Recount Palm Beach County

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I'd like to see Bush elected now more than ever because I think he'd have a much better chance of giving us an effective administration. Hell, even the Dem half of capitol hill can't stand Gore.

Still the possible taint isn't worth the price of rushing. Mort Zuckerman's op-ed in this week's USN&WP is worth a read . Morty's pretty conservative but the point he makes here rings clear to me. We're gonna have to rererecount Palm.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 15, 2000


Some of you Repubs are a bit slow, but maybe you're finally coming to your senses. No one will REALLY respect a president who tries to censor the voice of the people in order to get into office. Bush should have known this, he REALLY should have known this. He is way out of touch.

-- (may.the@best.man.win), November 15, 2000.

Nobody has or will ever respect Gore. I just don't want the pubs sullied by being hasty. You Dems are in such tight lockstep you can't see you clown for what he is.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 15, 2000.

No. Zuckerman argues for a revote that isn't going to happen. Look at what the judges are doing. When they are faced with weighing in on a lawsuit that would effectively appoint the next president, they side- step the issue and throw it back into the political arena. It would be judicial suicide for a state judge to call for a revote in this county.

Besides, there's no practical way to revote to determine the original intent of the voters, which is the argument made here. Consider the addition of the wayward Nader vote also going to Gore the second time around.

Palm Beach gets entirely too much attention in my view. I categorically reject the claim that the "butterfly ballot" lead to an inordinate number of rejected ballots, in light of the numbers we've seen in Duval County. The instructions for balloting in Palm Beach were quite clear. The opening page of the ballot reads:

"Instructions to Voters: To vote for a candidate and/or question of your choice, punch the ballot card in the hole next to the number of that candidate and/or question; not to exceed the number of votes allowed for each office."

Additionally, a corresponding number was found on the ballot cards in the punch holes to confirm the correct hole to punch. Nearly 270,000 Gore supporters were able to correctly use the ballot in Palm Beach County; we must view the "disenfranchised" in that context.

It may be interesting to debate the idea of a revote, but it isn't going to happen.

-- Buster Collins (Hiway441@aol.com), November 15, 2000.

Oh, and also this:

According to the official website for Palm Beach County, ballot instructions explicitly directed voters to remove so-called chads before submitting their ballots:

"After voting, check your ballot card to be sure your voting selections are cleanly punched and there are no chips left hanging on the back of the card."

-- Buster Collins (Hiway441@aol.com), November 15, 2000.

Anal retentive hogwash. No one in this country is going to be denied the right to have their vote counted because they forgot to clean off their chads.

-- LOL (clean@your.nads), November 15, 2000.

Agree Buster that Mort was talking revote. Said rererecount because that's the only possible given the arguements you mention. Still, the question of legitimacy will weigh heavy on either candidate and with 222K popular vote in favor of Gore the pubs shouldn't risk not going the extra step. It boils to being a president that that the legislative branch resoundly dislikes and the resultant gridlock or a president that the electorate feels is undeserved.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 15, 2000.

And then theres the thought that neither one of these candidates deserve the title of Mr. President,they can't even earn our respect or admiration with their actions so far.

-- capnfun (capnfun1@excite.com), November 15, 2000.

"Nobody has or will ever respect Gore."

I wouldn't say that, but even more important is that we respect Bush even less. A LOT less.

"I just don't want the pubs sullied by being hasty."

Sorry, too late. :-)

"You Dems are in such tight lockstep you can't see you clown for what he is."

Hmmm, that's funny, I was thinking the same thing about you Pubs.

BTW, you really should be careful about how much you admire "you clown", his dialect seems to be contagious. lol

-- (be.careful@what.you.ask.for), November 15, 2000.

rererevoting is rerevolting.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), November 15, 2000.

be.careful worries about Pubs in lockstep and my diction. Black vote in Florida was 93% Gore, 7% Bush. Really Old Man, might you reconsider?

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 15, 2000.


Are you implying that black people as a race inherently have problems speaking intelligibly?

Sheeesh, if that isn't racist, I don't know what is.

-- (shrub@can't.talk), November 15, 2000.

All speech except BAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is learned.

-- Charlie (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 15, 2000.

I like Carlos, but I saw that last comment as racist.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), November 15, 2000.

I recognize your concern, Carlos, but I'm afraid the end result will leave us with a president without legitimacy with a vast majority of the opposition.

At this point, there is no way to construct an actual count of the representative views of the people of the state of Florida. What remains only to be determined is a legitimate count. Though the courts are now part of the process, they are doing their level best to tap dance around the prospect of providing enough definitive direction as to sway the outcome. Clearly, the Florida judicial system wnats no part of appointing the next president.

With the revelations that a 3-5% variance is the acceptable range when using paper balloting to gauge the "will of the people," it should now be obvious that Florida is a statistical tie. The courts seem unwilling to break that tie, so what's left is a political solution. This may very well fall upon the state elective body to cast electors to the electoral college, as a last resort.

It remains my advice to invest your money is companies offering paperless balloting systems, as they will be very popular in Flordia, as elsewhere.

-- Buster Collins (Hiway441@aol.com), November 15, 2000.

Oh, and to my friend who calls some of the balloting rules in Palm Beach County "anal retentive hogwash," may I suggest it is for just that very reason that we have drones of lawyers in Florida because laws in general are anal retentive? I believe many call them "technicalities."

-- Buster Collins (Hiway441@aol.com), November 15, 2000.

Yep; tainted is a mild way to put it. The press keeps saying that the Florida SOS hopes to be appointed to an important position in a Bush administration [since SOS in Florida will disappear in 2002]. After her performance lately, I suggest that she get an asbestoes suit for the position that the Senate will approve.

Best wishes,,,,


-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 15, 2000.

Oh, Anita. Stop overthinking it. The issue was "lockstep" voting and 93 to 7 looks like lockstep to me. Either the black voters are one hell of a lot more politically acute than the rest of us or.....they're not. Either has to do with who they listen to and not who they are. ;)

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), November 15, 2000.

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