Developing Ilford Delta 100 in D76 For 10min @ 72 degrees, stop bath 30 seconds and fixing in Kodak rapid fixer(A&B) for 5 minutes - all fresh chemistry. Coming out with a purple base - is this normal for Delta films?

Chris Becker

-- Chris Becker (beckerck@cadvision.com), November 12, 2000

Answers

> normal for Delta films?

Yep it's normal....you need to do the _rest of the process_.

After the fix, treat the film for about two minutes with continuous agitation in a hypo-clearing agent, then wash for about 15-20 minutes in an efficient washer that has a good flow. This will clear the leftover sensitizing dyes.

You can use Ilford's HCA, Kodak, Orbit Bath, Perma-Wash etc or make your own. Manufacturers claims for HCA appear to be rather optimistic, but otoh film washes easily so it really doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you get sufficient changes of water.

To make your own HCA, just dissolve a level tablespoon of sodium sulfite in a quart of water and use it as you would any other HCA.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), November 12, 2000.

Followup question - does it matter? Does any residual purple result in less archival stability of the image?

-- Bob Atkins (bobatkins@hotmail.com), November 13, 2000.

The purple colouring is the remains of the 'anti-halation' dye, originally put there to reduce the effect of light reflecting off the back of the film.
It won't affect the permanence of the silver image, but what I've found from experience is that any remaining dye isn't stable. It fades on exposure to air and light, and eventually you'll have an uneven magenta stain overlaying the silver image. This still isn't a disaster, unless you want to print the film on VC paper.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), November 13, 2000.

> does it matter?

No, I don't think so. The film manufacturers say it'll do no harm and fade over time.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), November 13, 2000.

First, the remaining purple color is not anti-halation dye; that rinses out quite easily. It is the remnants of sensitizing dye, a dye used to make the film respond 'panchromatically' (evenly to nearly all colors.) Additonally, it MUST be completely removed in order to make truly fine prints. It WILL change the response of VC paper. Photographers' Formulary TF-4 fixer aids in removing the dye. Also (and Pete is going to hate this, too) PMK developer and TF-4 fixer, along with a 2-4 minute soak in the used developer, and a normal wash will COMPLETELY remove the purple tint. It will even work with T-Max 100 which is notorious for its stubborn pink stain.

-- Michael D Fraser (mdfraser@earthlink.net), November 14, 2000.

I don't hate it Michael, I just find it irksome that these minority appeal chemicals are constantly being recommended to contributers, regardless of their geographical location.
Photographer's Formulary stuff is just not available outside of the US. Yes, I know I can pay to have the stuff individually shipped, but the cost for small quantities makes it uneconomical, and I'm not even sure if the shippers will handle liquid chemicals, or customs allow it through.
I'm sure I'm not alone in only being interested in processes and chemicals that I can actually get my hands on.
While I'm back on this thread: I'm sure there's a market for a cheap and simple bath that clears this darned stain. Lately, I've taken to using rapid fixer as a one-shot bath for T-max and Delta, since it knackers a normal fixing bath so quickly. I use about 25ml of fixer concentrate per film, and fix for 10 minutes. The film gets fully fixed out, but the stain stubbornly remains.
I'll have a play with a metabisulphite bath or something.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), November 14, 2000.

Gents, I use ordinary rapid fix w/o hardener, usually 3'/75F, with continuous agitation. Then I give the film two minutes w/continuous agitation in the 2% sodium sulifte solution HCA, then a 20-minute wash.

No leftover dye. None. Not in Delta or T-Max. Nada.

The point is that both Ilford and Kodak recommend the use of an HCA, there's no need to fix forever, and there's no need to use special or hard-to-find products.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), November 14, 2000.

Thanks John!
But are you saying that the HCA bath consists only of 2% Sodium Sulphite? If that's the case, I can't understand why the stain was still there when I was using D76, with its nearly 20% Sodium Sulphite content. Traditional HCA used to be a permanganate bath.

-- Pete Andrews (p.l.andrews@bham.ac.uk), November 15, 2000.

> But are you saying that the HCA bath consists only of 2% Sodium Sulphite?

Yep. The common HCAs are similar, usually with a little sodium bisulfite; I believe that's Kodak's official HCA formula. I've used it both ways with no discernible difference.

> If that's the case, I can't understand why the stain was still there when I was using D76

No idea on that. Occasionally I've developed test films without bothering with HCA in a variety of developers including D-76 and haven't noticed any difference in how much dye is left between developer types.

-- John Hicks (jbh@magicnet.net), November 15, 2000.