MSM as an Effective Painreliever?

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Has anyone tried MSM as a natural painreliever, and if so, at what dose? I have been searching for a natural alternative (for 3-4 years now) to treat my bad knees and hips (been to the osteopathic surgeon, no signs of arthritis) and lately, tension headaches that feel like my head is going to split open (internist said they can be normal for women in perimenopause). The doctors are good at eliminating what is NOT my problem, but can offer few alternatives other than drugs. I am currently taking 50mg. Vioxx when needed for the joint pain (works great but is hard on the liver), and take Fioricet for the head pain, 3 times a day (the head pain is there every day). I would really like to heal myself without having to resort to using these drugs all the time, and wondered if anyone had any results with MSM, we have used it in the horse world for 20 years for pain/antiinflammatory use, but there is not much research with human use. I really appreciate your input, Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 01, 2000

Answers

Annie what is MSM?

-- Carol (cwaldrop@peoplescom.net), November 01, 2000.

MSM is an organic source of sulfer - methylsulfonylmethane - this is why they call it MSM for short! It is supposed to help with arthritis by helping to repair the cartilage. I have never heard of it being used stricly for pain but I guess theoretically it should help arthritis pain which I believe is why it is used in animals. I could not tell that it helped me any. Maybe I didn't take enough or take it long enough. I took 500 mg. a day. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had success with it.

-- bwilliams (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), November 01, 2000.

Bwilliams, I started taking 4000mg. once a day yesterday, is supposed to take 3-4 weeks till you see any results, some people report very good results in both animals and themselves. I am using the pure form sold for horse use, much cheaper than that sold for humans, 1 pound is 13.00 , and lasts quite a while. I was just wondering how well it had worked or not worked for other folks. I'll let you know in 3-4 weeks if it's helping. Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 01, 2000.

Before you consider adding another drug to your body, have you researched the importance of detoxification at all? I guess I believe its better to get to the cause of pain, rather than just continue to treat the symptoms. And if you're open to it, I believe there are usually emotional connections to most conditions, and becoming aware of them can be very helpful. You can email me directly, if you prefer, if any of this sounds of interest to you. Blessings, Earthmama

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), November 01, 2000.

Hi Annie, My mother and grandmother use MSM plus glucosimine and swear by the results(you can get the combination right at Walmart). We have a retired racehorse who was basicly at the end of the line with a swollen hock, vets all said to put him down. Bute was bothering his stomach and putting him off his feed, so I tried the new Lakota joint supplement. No exhaggerating here, he bolted out of his stall the next day and was running with herd. The pain killer in it must work really well and is not bothering his stomach. The swelling has gone down in his hock, but the calcium build-up is not going away(he is not arthritic, the calcium was building up and freezing the joint). The Lakota company makes the same supplement for people as well, it does have MSM and glucosimine in it, though just enough to fulfill the latest demand for those ingredients, it works due to the herbs in it. They do have a website to learn more, just do a search for Lakota and joint supplement and you should find the site easily.

-- Epona (staceyb@myway.com), November 01, 2000.


Hi Annie,

My father-in-law has really bad knees. I put him on MSM with glucosamine (for cartilage and joint lubrication) and condrotin (for the live of me, I cannot find the reason I added that) It took a while but he said his legs weren't hurting as bad any more but that he wasn't doing as much (like a man, doesn't believe) He stopped taking it because he said he had trouble "going" in the morning. So now he is agian hobbling around. Another friend had back problems so bad he had surgery. After the surgery he felt great for a short time then the problems came back. Talked him into also taking the MSM with Glu & Con and he says he feels great.

I agree with Earthmom. Sometimes the medication you take will give you more problems. It could also not be the medication itself but the filler or dye that bothers you. Do you notice the headaches after taking the Vioxx? Feverfew works well for headaches and pain. YOu could also try taking Primrose oil which is a good anti- inflammatory that helps contol pain and inflammation(it is also good for women things) The MSM has some antioxidant ablilities in producing Glutathione which our body uses to take chemicals out but has no real way of replacing it.

Warning, if you are allergic to sulfer, do not take MSM! Good Luck

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), November 01, 2000.


I take MSM everyday, along with Evening Primrose Oil and I take Feverfew daily for headaches in addition to various other supplements. My joint pain has greatly disminished since taking the MSM. As for the Feverfew, I don't know if that helps, I still get headaches. Excedrin for Migranes helps the headaches, but sometimes nothing seems to dull them. If you keep taking Fioricet regularly it could backfire on you and make your headaches worse. I had headaches before memopause. Good luck.

Blessings, Judy

-- Judy Murray (jmurray@tulane.edu), November 01, 2000.


Earthmomma- I am willing to explore any possible idea to help resolve these problems, the doctors are just treating the symptoms, not the source, of the conditions. I have tried about all the herbal alternatives, they help some, but not enough. **Epona and Dee- I used the glucosamine/condrotine combination for 2 years, got about 15% improvement, my problem is not with the joint itself (no bone damage or calcium build-up, no cartilage damage), but the ligaments and tendons attached to the hip and knee joints. They become inflammed, not hot, but painful, very stiff in the morning, and if I don't keep moving about some. Sitting in one spot for extended periods of time is the worst. The headaches were there before the Vioxx, the internist was curious that it did not help the headaches, I only take the Vioxx a few times every two weeks or so. I have been taking flaxseed oil, 1000mg. twice a day for about 2 years, would the primrose oil be more effective? I take the flaxseed oil as it is supposed to help normalize my hormone levels, my FSH was 98 a year and half ago, was down to 36 this March when I was tested again. My gyn. feels both problems could stem from my wildly fluctuating hormone levels, they have a definite vascular effect on the body, and recommended I continue to use the progesterone cream I've been using for about 2 years, it used to help the headaches tremendously, but doesn't anymore. I also take a Vitex herbal combination recommended for women over 40 that Frontier Herb sells, things are worse if I stop that. Please feel free to send me more ideas, you all are a great help! Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 01, 2000.

Judy- How much MSM do you take everday? Do you feel the primrose oil to be more effective than the flaxseed oil? I have only been taking the Fioricet for 2 weeks, and I am only taking one pill 3 times a day, half the recommended dose. How long before the rebound effect will come about? I am hoping to find a non-drug relief before I get side effects from the Fioricet, the head pain was so bad I could not drive, concentrate, or sleep, so I had to go to the internist for painrelievers, I'm not a wimp, it was bad! Thanks in advance for your help! Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 01, 2000.

I think I agree with Earth Momma. I would first stop everything and go on a detox. I think the best one is Fit for Life, which was sold as a weight loss method several years ago. The book is by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond. This is the healthiest, best feeling way to eat I have ever used. Your headaches will probably get worse temporarily, but then I bet you would get better. When ever I start feeling rotten I go back on Fit for Life. You can often find the book at the thrift store or used book stores and I have seen it still for sale in stores. I also recommend that you look at what you eat before and after these headaches. Is there some particular trend to your headaches. For instance if my brother-in-law eats strawberries he gets a headache. My friend Mary gets headaches from storebought ice cream. There is some preservative that gets her everytime. Sometimes we look so hard for a quick fix that we neglect the most basic things to make ourselves better. Always start with your food.

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@calinet.com), November 01, 2000.



Yea, that's right. I kept a journal for my son on what he ate, smelled and touched. It was a pain but I was able to pinpoint a few problems. Then, if you suspect a food allergy, withold it for 5 days. That means if you are suspecting milk, withold ice cream, cheese, casin, whey - read any ingredients on everything and do not eat anything dairy. After the 5 days, drink a glass of milk on an empty stomach. You would have a reaction usually within 10 minutes. My reaction was lightheaded, dizziness, feeling of dejavu, trouble concentrating and talking. The next day, yes, the next day I was nasty and irritable. I knew it but couldn't stop. This is just one example. See, the body does different things when you have an allergy. When you don't listen, it moves to something else. Example over the years: My son projectile vomited formula, later he got ear infections, then stomach aches, finally personality changes. Do you think the doctor would recognize this? nooo...

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), November 01, 2000.

I went to a naturopath/homeopathy/acupuncturist for a consult on diet (not weight loss, just food tolerances). She uses the Chinese Traditional Medicine methods. I had to fill out a loooooooong questionnaire and had a long interview with her, including an energy workup. I got a list of foods to avoid, as well as recommendations on cooking methods. Raw foods are out for me; I can eat beef but not chicken. The Diamond's eating plan, that LBF mentioned, would kill me. The point of this is that what works for one will not necessarily work for another. Be very cautious before jumping into any eating plan with both feet.

-- Joy Froelich (dragnfly@chorus.net), November 02, 2000.

Annie, sounds to me from your description that your problems could very well be food-related, (in addition to probably some emotional stuff, but people usually get irritated with me when I go there!) I used to have joint problems too, and headaches, and whatnot, but have very few occurances now.I changed alot of my thinking that my research told me might be connected to my various conditions, and I absolutely attribute my healing in a large way to those changes. As I mentioned , I think starting over by detoxing is imperative; we all accumualate all kinds of nasty stuff in our bodies over the years, and need to cleanse periodically. There are lots of good herbal products on the market that will help you do this. The one I use is called Can-T, I buy it at www.wisespirit.com ; its kind of expensive, but I figure not nearly as costly as drugs, both financially and in side-effects;it sure does the trick for me. Sometimes terrible diseases are caused/exacerbated by toxins in our systems, and when they are removed, the body is able to cure itself from all sorts of conditions, even serious ones. Like was mentioned previously, detoxing will make you feel worse for a few days, while all the stuff comes to the fore, but then you will probably feel new and refreshed! At least this is my experience. After detoxing, I would seriously try a rotational diet to discover which foods you may be sensitive to. This is introducing one new food a day, to see if you react to it. Its almost always the things you eat all the time, and often the things you tend to crave. Its a difficult process to go through, lasts a few weeks, is a big hassle, but it could end up making you pain free. Blessings, Earthmama

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), November 02, 2000.

I will give it a try, thank you !!! Annie in SE OH.

-- Annie Miller (annie@1st.net), November 02, 2000.

I've been reading and agreeing with what was said - but on the MSM question, I have a 21 yr old horse who has some arthritic changes in his ankles and hocks. I tried him on MSM and he refused to eat his grain at all...chrondroitin sulfate and glucosamine he would take if disguised and showed improvement. Had his hocks x-rayed and the opinion was changes due to age. We ended up injecting hyluronic acid into his joints and have done so the last 4 years (this is done under anaesthesia, but with the horse standing) and he gets progressively more and more time between treatments. I don't know if this is available to humans, but it is a fairly quick treatment and doesn't seem to cause him any distress at all. He goes back to work in a couple days. The unfortunate thing about hyluronic acid is that it can't be absorbed thru the digestive tract, it has to be injected directly into the joint. Hopefully you won't come to this point, but I mention it in case the other things don't work.

-- Julie Froelich (firefly1@nnex.net), November 04, 2000.


Ouch!

-- Dee (gdgtur@goes.com), November 04, 2000.

I had headaches/migraines for several years. About 10 years ago, I went to a nuerologist who had me keep a journal. I listed what foods I ate, sleeping times and headache severity(i had constant headache it just got worse through out the day) It turned out that I had some food triggers. I won't bother listing them but I stayed away from those foods for years, now I am able to eat some of these things again. I think I was overdoing certain of these things and now that my body is "cleansed" so to speak that I can reintroduce some of these things again without trouble. This is only my story and my opinion of how I felt and feel now, I have not been back to a doctor about it.

-- Terri (Terri@tallships.ca), November 06, 2000.

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